posted June 28, 2014 05:53 AM            

I admit I’m not a believer in twin flames. I do believe in reincarnation, and that we probably interact with many of the same people life after life due karmic ties and loving attachment. Heck, many of us probably married the same person over and over again. I also believe that an important way that we show our love for another is through dedication and real caring in good times and bad. But this whole twin flame thing to me seems put another person on an unrealistic pedestal, as if they are supposed to be the ultimate answer to everything and give us complete fulfillment or something. What happens if the person we think is the ’answer’ for us cuts ties? Jump of a bridge? Stalk them? Give up all hope? Noooo.

Personally, I dislike the twin flames notion because there’s a danger of another person being overly idealized in our eyes, and this could lead to disappointment, disillusionment and even serious depression in the case of a relationship failure (or even just a rough patch). I guess I like the term ‘Soul mate’ better because it implies a familiarity and loving (or sometimes not so loving) connection with someone that reaches back further then this lifetime, but not necessarily that a relationship that’s perfect. And what it doesn’t seem to imply is that the other person has to fulfill us totally or we’ll have a meltdown about it. No one human can do that. Nobody is infallible, and that sure can be a lot of pressure.

That being said, I do believe it’s possible to have a really nice loving relationship with somebody that is lasting. Like a good marriage. These relationships usually take a bit of effort though. Simple things like just being kind, considerate, and nice to the other person really do help. As well as not being a quitter at the slightest sign of trouble. And a good analysis of synastry can help pinpoint the blessings and challenges that will come with the relationship. I think part of loving someone is accepting them despite their imperfections, allowing them to accept us, and working with them for the best possible result in a relationship. This includes taking the wellbeing of both partners into account as a couple and individually.

Some people are going to disagree with me. That’s fine. Only wish for more synastry and less ‘Are they or are they not my twin flame’? threads.

I guess my thinking is that just because a connection with someone feels magical, exciting, and profound, doesn't mean that they are our 'twin flame'. Maybe it's just a nice relationship period (at least in the honeymoon phase). Maybe it's a karmic echo from a past life. Or maybe it's just good synastry. For things to stay good though, and for a lasting relationship to develop, maturity and effort are required. So lets talk practical synastry, with real psychological insight.

posted June 28, 2014 06:26 AM            

I think the common notion of 'be-all, end-all' in any capacity is dangerous. When I see this applied to Twin Flames, I become annoyed, too. It's just ... troublesomely oversimplified in that respect.

posted June 28, 2014 07:25 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Tulipe:
I believe 'twinflame' or not, what you feel is true and it's enough, stop looking for confirmation and start living.

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posted June 28, 2014 07:32 AM            

On the other hand, we can't deny/repress our fascination for myths and the eternal dream of "living a dream", of reaching the ideal in love.

I believe this is what the Twinflame concept is for the world of love and it is unavoidably injected into relationship astrology.

posted June 28, 2014 08:02 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by IndigoDirae:
Heh. Perfectly acceptable rant. It's been a rough month for me, personally.

I think the common notion of 'be-all, end-all' in any capacity is dangerous. When I see this applied to Twin Flames, I become annoyed, too. It's just ... troublesomely oversimplified in that respect.

Anyhow, I simply wanted to say I understand where you're coming from. And I'm the demographic you hate so much.

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posted June 28, 2014 08:07 AM            

I haven`t even read your post (will do so now, after I have had some coffee), but I LOVED the title.

I admit it, I got tired of twinflames and the talk (though still intrigued now and then).

It just doesn´t matter that much to me anymore. I was obsessed with it a few years ago, but now? Not so much.

Maybe it comes with age or the realization that there never are any guarantees and that to love someone always means taking a chance, taking a risk and plunging into the unknown so to speak.

To love someone, despite not knowing what the outcome will be, must be one of the bravest things I have ever dared.

And that probably is a message in itself about me, to myself. lol

posted June 28, 2014 08:10 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Tulipe:
Thank you Lotis White, I have to say I agree with you . It seems a loving stable relationship is not appreciated anymore or am I mistaken? I believe 'twinflame' or not, what you feel is true and it's enough, stop looking for confirmation and start living.

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posted June 28, 2014 08:17 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by geminigal2805:
I agree with everything u said Lotis White.
Except good marriage doesnt take a BIT of effort. More than a bit : )
When i was a kid my neighbour told my family that he was introduced to a person who was like a hypnotist. N he was hypnotised to a deep sleep where his soul reached out to his past lifes. His mother,dad,wife,children were all part of his family in the previous lifes also. Only difference was the roles were altered. In one life his mother was his daughter and in a different life he was the father of his wife. The experience affected him emotionally n he wasnt a happy person after that 'hypnotisim'. I dont know if this kind of experience is possible or not. I was very young then. I dont remember everything he said.. thought i should share.

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posted June 28, 2014 08:31 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
To love someone, despite not knowing what the outcome will be, must be one of the bravest things I have ever dared.

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Aww, Ceri, I love your attitude. To trust when there's no certainty, to love when there's pain down the road is pure love IMO.

posted June 28, 2014 08:34 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Lotis White:
Yeah, I'd rather focus on the nitty gritty of what something like a Moon/Mars aspect feels like, and how best to deal with that aspect in synastry, then obsess over potentially imaginary concept.

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Me too, I'd love to have more discussions on Saturn aspects. Saturn is currently transiting my 7th house, he just moved from my Venus/DSC/Pluto, now he's Retro near my Pluto/DSC again. I love Saturn, I do!

posted June 28, 2014 09:00 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
Nice thread, Lotis. An ode to living love in reality with all its flaws and lessons as opposed to imaginary fantasy relationships. Real life love beats any fantasy!

On the other hand, we can't deny/repress our fascination for myths and the eternal dream of "living a dream", of reaching the ideal in love.

I believe this is what the Twinflame concept is for the world of love and it is unavoidably injected into relationship astrology.

I also believe there is sometimes (many times) a confusion between twinflame/ideal love and unrequited love and that's why I opened that thread, to explore this, to see if it's really so and how this is reflected astrologically.

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I guess the scary thing for me is that some not so mentally healthy people out there might use a concept like this to justify pretty much anything. I recognize most relatively sane people would not. However, they might hold on to something not so good for them (like an unrequited love or an ex whose moved on) longer then necessary. I see how you've thread could be useful in perhaps highlighting what types of synastry lead to this type of hopeless longing and such.

I think when it comes to ‘ideals’ our charts are pretty good at emphasizing what our personal vision of these are. I guess we all have our dreams about what we think is an ideal relationship. This is shown by certain parts of our chart like the 5th,7th, 8th houses, the Vertex Axis, certain secondary houses, and asteroids. Venus and Mars play a role as well. Different people will touch different parts of these 'ideals' in our charts. The more someone does this the more they will appeal to us. Kind of like the laws of physics, synastry shows how this system functions. And it gives us a certain kind of objectivity. If we're hung up on someone because they've got their Venus conjunct our 7th house ruler, it helps to realize that this synastry is why we're attracted. And if it's sadly unrequited, then there's still the possibility of finding a more suitable partner who shares a similar aspect with us, and who also returns our feelings. If it is working out with the Venus conjunct our 7th house ruler person. Then great! Now we know what the pull is, and get to benefit from that lovely aspect in our synastry. As to the WHY of it all. Maybe it's our karmic destiny and whatnot to get involved with that person, but if we want it to work out long-term we still need to be realistic about the situation, and mature in our dealings. That's kind of the theme of my rant.

And another thing, I think one of the valuable parts of relationship astrology is that it illustrates that there is really no such thing as perfect synastry. There is always one or two discordant factors, or challenges that need to be dealt with. And when there’s not (any synastry hard aspects for instance), many report a sense of boredom or stagnation. This is why I love threads dealing with the experiences we go through with certain types of synastry. I think they help us avoid pitfalls and maximize the positive.

posted June 28, 2014 09:15 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:

Maybe it comes with age or the realization that there never are any guarantees and that to love someone always means taking a chance, taking a risk and plunging into the unknown so to speak.

To love someone, despite not knowing what the outcome will be, must be one of the bravest things I have ever dared.

And that probably is a message in itself about me, to myself. lol

---

posted June 28, 2014 09:24 AM            

yes I agree with you there.

But even though we (this guy and me) never have been in a relationship, I wouldn´t want to miss this (ongoing) experience in my life, with everything.
He most certainly was a catalyst for a total life change, or change in perspective for me.

And I slowly start wrapping my mind around the possibility that despite my refusals to believe that, he actually did *feel* some of our synastry.

It doesn`t change our respective "status", but it was important for me to realize that.

It is an emotional learning process for me (not to forget its insanely hilarious. Drama and comedy in one. How do you call that? Dromedy? Sounds like dromedar, doesn`t it? lol)

Of course the learning curve (for me) doesn`t stop there.

posted June 28, 2014 09:26 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Tulipe:
Aww, Ceri, I love your attitude. To trust when there's no certainty, to love when there's pain down the road is pure love IMO.

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don`t know about pure love, but thank you.

Now I just gotta learn to allow for some mutuality into my life. I mean SPOKEN mutuality, something that might actually MANIFEST in a more worldly sense.

posted June 28, 2014 09:33 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
don`t know about pure love, but thank you.

Now I just gotta learn to allow for some mutuality into my life. I mean SPOKEN mutuality, something that might actually MANIFEST in a more worldly sense.

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I like that. Sounds like a turning point. Ive been waiting for you to say that. its been a long soul journey. Any interesting transits at the moment?

posted June 28, 2014 09:51 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:

Now I just gotta learn to allow for some mutuality into my life. I mean SPOKEN mutuality, something that might actually MANIFEST in a more worldly sense.

---

posted June 28, 2014 10:38 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lotis White:
I guess the scary thing for me is that some not so mentally healthy people out there might use a concept like this to justify pretty much anything. I recognize most relatively sane people would not. However, they might hold on to something not so good for them (like an unrequited love or an ex whose moved on) longer then necessary. I see how you've thread could be useful in perhaps highlighting what types of synastry lead to this type of hopeless longing and such.

I think when it comes to ‘ideals’ our charts are pretty good at emphasizing what our personal vision of these are. I guess we all have our dreams about what we think is an ideal relationship. This is shown by certain parts of our chart like the 5th,7th, 8th houses, the Vertex Axis, certain secondary houses, and asteroids. Venus and Mars play a role as well. Different people will touch different parts of these 'ideals' in our charts. The more someone does this the more they will appeal to us. Kind of like the laws of physics, synastry shows how this system functions. And it gives us a certain kind of objectivity. If we're hung up on someone because they've got their Venus conjunct our 7th house ruler, it helps to realize that this synastry is why we're attracted. And if it's sadly unrequited, then there's still the possibility of finding a more suitable partner who shares a similar aspect with us, and who also returns our feelings. If it is working out with the Venus conjunct our 7th house ruler person. Then great! Now we know what the pull is, and get to benefit from that lovely aspect in our synastry. As to the WHY of it all. Maybe it's our karmic destiny and whatnot to get involved with that person, but if we want it to work out long-term we still need to be realistic about the situation, and mature in our dealings. That's kind of the theme of my rant.

And another thing, I think one of the valuable parts of relationship astrology is that it illustrates that there is really no such thing as perfect synastry. There is always one or two discordant factors, or challenges that need to be dealt with. And when there’s not (any synastry hard aspects for instance), many report a sense of boredom or stagnation. This is why I love threads dealing with the experiences we go through with certain types of synastry. I think they help us avoid pitfalls and maximize the positive.

Oh yeah, and in case you didn't guess yet, I'm a Capricorn with Venus in Sagittarius trine Saturn.

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It's so interesting what you said about that Venus/7th ruler example. I noticed how people sometimes look for the "alignment" as I call it, through several "hit and miss". For example, they have a Venus in Leo and experience several (sometimes unrequited or missed relationships that couldn't get off the ground, or short or unsatisfying relationships) and the other's Mars is let's say in Sag (if their natal requires this type of contact) or in Aqua (if the natal needs this type of hard aspect to Venus to feel romantically complete). But it's not aligned. She has Venus at 7 Leo, for instance. One previous guy has Mars in Aqua 27...the next, Aqua 18...and finally...here he comes! with Aqua Mars at 10!

posted June 28, 2014 11:17 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Orange:
I like that. Sounds like a turning point. Ive been waiting for you to say that. its been a long soul journey. Any interesting transits at the moment?

However emphasizing your post on Spoken means you still haven't moved on completely.

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No, i haven`t moved on completely, and I think I won´t, because that is just not something I do, ever. Instead I modify and change perceptions and with it the connection changes over time.

This happened a lot in friendships for me, too. There are just some, with whom I have completely cut ties, and frankly spoken, those were the ones that did not really serve any purpose in my life anymore.

However in this case, why would I cut myself off of any joy I am experiencing?

But anyway, the real moving on part probably happens when I am meeting the next Mr Awesome (and hopefully not Mr Unavailable ).

Transits?

Let me check

Tr Neptune squaring ASC exact (yeah about that )

Tr Uranus squaring Saturn (and being on my Draco Sun)

Tr Venus-Juno conjunction on my DESC (I know it is a quick transit. but still found it funny. lol)

Tr Sun oposing my Venus

Tr Moon being on my Sun/Moon-mp, Vertex and Eros exact as we speak

Tr Saturn square my Moon and making a GT with my Juno-Saturn-trine

(btw i only considered transits under one degree).

-----------------------------------------

For the current background, provided by solar arc directions

sa Uranus square n Jupiter (separating)

sa DESC has just separated from n Saturn and is by now out of orb
(I do not use greater orbs than 30 minutes with solar arcs)

sa Venus is on its way to soon conjunct natal Moon (orb is still 43 minutes, so I think I am starting to pay attention to this in the later summer or so)

sa Jupiter = n Vertex precise today! (0.00)
sa Jupiter= n Sun/Moon-mp (3 minutes applying)

I think this might be the responsible configuration as it is also being triggered by transiting Moon at the moment, and was trigered by transiting Jupiter 2 weeks ago

As for secondary progressions

pr Venus sextile my n Sun by 16 minutes
(not a BIG aspect, but a nice one I think).

pr ASC separating from a square to n Pluto and had been transited by Pluto as well a while ago (pr ASC on 9 Cap)

pr Juno on the same degree as my natal IC

pr Moon, whic refuses to leave the 7th house anytime soon as it looks like, had been triggering the Sun/Moon-Vertex axis a few weeks/months ago, and now is on its way to activate my Moon/Venus-mp.

And the tertiary progressions (monthly)

well friday 2 weeks ago, I was having a New Moon in the tertiary progressions which fell precisely onto my natal DESC.

Plus tp Venus on tp Avx.

and tp MC on natal Juno exact

And now, tp Venus is on its way to opposing natal Mars (fittingly my pr Mars is going to conjunct my n Venus in about 2 years I think).

After that tp Venus will land on the natal DESC and in a few months meet up with tp Sun, probably right on my SN. lol

tp Moon today is on my natal Karma, exact.

I think that is al.

posted June 28, 2014 11:33 AM            

The flame talk as well as the relationship-reality-talk (and sometimes they might intermingle).

Why don`t you open some threads you would like to see here?

I will be there.

I am just having so many thoughts flitting through my mind that I can hardly focus on writing a reply at the current time. Must be the retro Mercury in GEmini opposing my Sun and mercury. lol

For example I would love a thread on the synopsis of progressed/ directed synastry interlocking with natal synastry in relationships that got off the ground or broke apart or anything in between.

posted June 28, 2014 12:21 PM            

Introduce: the friend.

Now who is he? What´s he about? Why is he so OBSESSED with that concert two weeks ago, that he won`t stop posting videos or random remarks about that? So the memory never really has a chance to slowly fade into nothingness, into that realm of surreality where all memories are living.

Well apparently I do not have anyhting better to do with my life than considering it some sort of soapopera.