posted June 28, 2014 02:44 PM            

Knowledge is power. Learn learn learn all about your 12th... everything.

posted June 28, 2014 02:57 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by DeepFreeze:
What I did was study study study! I studied all that I could about my 12th. What was in it, how it worked, what it was doing in my life. Any planet that was there, I studied every aspect.
I reflected back to try to recognize where that energy has impacted me in the past that I just didn't recognize.

Knowledge is power. Learn learn learn all about your 12th... everything.

Then, I think you will gain the power to change. You will recognize these "hidden" patterns in your life. Right now you may not even see them or be aware of them. They remain a mysterious fog... just enough to keep you trapped in your patterns.

---

@ DF do you have moon or venus in your 12th?

posted June 28, 2014 03:05 PM            

And Venus in 12th Virgo.

posted June 29, 2014 05:46 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by DeepFreeze:
What I did was study study study! I studied all that I could about my 12th. What was in it, how it worked, what it was doing in my life. Any planet that was there, I studied every aspect.
I reflected back to try to recognize where that energy has impacted me in the past that I just didn't recognize.

Knowledge is power. Learn learn learn all about your 12th... everything.

Then, I think you will gain the power to change. You will recognize these "hidden" patterns in your life. Right now you may not even see them or be aware of them. They remain a mysterious fog... just enough to keep you trapped in your patterns.

---

posted June 29, 2014 06:12 AM            

A very important person of mine has the same placements, Saturn and Pluto in 12th with Scorpio Rising, so I want to understand more about this. I've been watching this thread for days, I wish you success overcoming it. Did you gravitate to persons who make aspects to your Saturn/Pluto a lot? Maybe you feel you have to stay away from Scorpios because of your South Node in there? I read 12th house overlay synastry can be very sweet and loving. Can I ask you what do you consider self-undoing? I mean what behaviors?
I'm trying to understand these placements, do not mean to pry .

posted June 29, 2014 06:33 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tulipe:
Hi ScorpioRising,

A very important person of mine has the same placements, Saturn and Pluto in 12th with Scorpio Rising, so I want to understand more about this. I've been watching this thread for days, I wish you success overcoming it. Did you gravitate to persons who make aspects to your Saturn/Pluto a lot? Maybe you feel you have to stay away from Scorpios because of your South Node in there? I read 12th house overlay synastry can be very sweet and loving. Can I ask you what do you consider self-undoing? I mean what behaviors?
I'm trying to understand these placements, do not mean to pry .

---

Hey.. happy to answer ur question.. ! Ive had two very important people in the life who had very scorpionic energy. One had moon and venus in scorpio.. also in his 12th house.. whay i felt with that person was obligation.. because they were attracted to me.. i felt like i 'should be' attracted to them. So it was like an obligation to be in a relationship with them... but it didnt work.. we had a lot of saturn ties... keeps us in eachoyher lives even now.. but i felt like i was always put down, i was moody. Just felt obligated to be them because he liked me! How crazy does that sound... that is my own self undoing.

posted June 29, 2014 02:13 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by DeepFreeze:
Mercury Mars conjunct in 12th Virgo.. Square moon (since you bring up moon, there are ties to it)

And Venus in 12th Virgo.

---

My venus is also in the 12th but in Gemini. How did you overcome your venus in the 12th? I found as a female, my self-confidence was a bit low..never felt like I was pretty no matter how often i heard i was or that someone could possibly be head over heals in love with someone like me....like I didn't deserve to loved that much. I was always very critical of myself and in relationships always sacrificed what I wanted/needed to make the other person happy. Can you relate to any of this? How did you overcome your self-undoing of venus in 12th....I actually have moon in the 12th too (also in Gemini.)

Venus is sextile mars, quintile Saturn, quincux Uranus, opposite neptune and trine Pluto (all tight!)

posted June 30, 2014 01:08 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by tgem:
My venus is also in the 12th but in Gemini. How did you overcome your venus in the 12th? I found as a female, my self-confidence was a bit low..never felt like I was pretty no matter how often i heard i was or that someone could possibly be head over heals in love with someone like me....like I didn't deserve to loved that much. I was always very critical of myself and in relationships always sacrificed what I wanted/needed to make the other person happy. Can you relate to any of this? How did you overcome your self-undoing of venus in 12th....I actually have moon in the 12th too (also in Gemini.)

Venus is sextile mars, quintile Saturn, quincux Uranus, opposite neptune and trine Pluto (all tight!)

Moon un-aspected except a very wide square to Saturn.

---

I actually relate to ALL of that. Every bit of it.
Man, it's HARD! I still have had struggles of feeling lovable. I just always thought, and still struggle a tiny bit of just not really believing that anyone COULD love me.
That in itself is a huge thing to conquer and EXTREMELY important. Because if you don't believe it, you'll make sure that you are not that lovable. You know? Like a self-fulfilling prophecy. It's tough though...

Did you ever have trouble with desiring people that were just impossible to have? I mean, people you know, but they are taken, live far away, not interested in you like that, etc. Or even drawn in people who were taken? I have Venus square Neptune as well and that's another ballgame I guess. LOL

What you talked about. Well... I spent some time observing other couples. Like my sister who has been married for 19 years. My dad and his wife who were married for 34 years.
I spent two years single, really focusing on what I want from a relationship. What I expect from it, how I expect to be treated. (If I don't want to have swear words thrown at me, don't throw them. If they throw swear words at me, don't retaliate. Yet stay firm and let them know that it's not tolerated - It's hard to respect someone who shows you no respect - two way street - someone has to do it - if that makes sense)
I worked hard, mentally on things like that. If I expect to have a stable, kind relationship, I have to be willing to lead in that regard you know? Not expect it of them. I expect them to at least follow me in that path of love.
Lucky for me, Barbie actually kind of leads me there. She keeps ME positive. LOL
Giving too much. Ohhhhhhhhhh I know about that! I've dealt with a lot and given too much financially. If they asked for the moon, I would try to get it.
I stay realistic now. Speaking of financial as an example. If I can't pay cash for it outright, I don't buy it. I let her know. Though, I'm willing to make some compromises and a plan to save the money to get what she wants. Things like that.
You just have to realize that, in MY opinion, you can't give all of yourself, with nothing or little back and have it work. Eventually it does catch up and in my cases... ends in me blowing up.

I'm not sure what to say exactly. My communication isn't always that great. But you just have to slow down, breathe, come back to earth in a sense. Do a reality check. Think about it.

I have Virgo in 12th so that may help some. It does help to keep me grounded and use logic. But I think with the 12th, one of the main keys to working with it is knowing what to embrace and what to ignore. Before you act, do a reality check. It's filled with so much dreaminess and wonder you almost have to do that. Just stop, think, check reality, even if a person had to write something down. Hey, whatever works really.

Barbie and I have Virgo Sun in composite, so we do sit, think, use logic, plan for things and come up with a way to achieve them. I think that helps since we both have 12th placements. Natally, she has Venus 1st though, but our composite Venus is 12 Libra.

Just bring yourself down to earth sometimes. Check in with logic before you act and don't be afraid to be a little selfish to mix in with that selfless. Don't be a afraid to say no.

posted June 30, 2014 02:52 AM            

I don't know what in astrology is responsible for this.

posted June 30, 2014 10:53 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by DeepFreeze:
I actually relate to ALL of that. Every bit of it.
Man, it's HARD! I still have had struggles of feeling lovable. I just always thought, and still struggle a tiny bit of just not really believing that anyone COULD love me.
That in itself is a huge thing to conquer and EXTREMELY important. Because if you don't believe it, you'll make sure that you are not that lovable. You know? Like a self-fulfilling prophecy. It's tough though...

Did you ever have trouble with desiring people that were just impossible to have? I mean, people you know, but they are taken, live far away, not interested in you like that, etc. Or even drawn in people who were taken? I have Venus square Neptune as well and that's another ballgame I guess. LOL

What you talked about. Well... I spent some time observing other couples. Like my sister who has been married for 19 years. My dad and his wife who were married for 34 years.
I spent two years single, really focusing on what I want from a relationship. What I expect from it, how I expect to be treated. (If I don't want to have swear words thrown at me, don't throw them. If they throw swear words at me, don't retaliate. Yet stay firm and let them know that it's not tolerated - It's hard to respect someone who shows you no respect - two way street - someone has to do it - if that makes sense)
I worked hard, mentally on things like that. If I expect to have a stable, kind relationship, I have to be willing to lead in that regard you know? Not expect it of them. I expect them to at least follow me in that path of love.
Lucky for me, Barbie actually kind of leads me there. She keeps ME positive. LOL
Giving too much. Ohhhhhhhhhh I know about that! I've dealt with a lot and given too much financially. If they asked for the moon, I would try to get it.
I stay realistic now. Speaking of financial as an example. If I can't pay cash for it outright, I don't buy it. I let her know. Though, I'm willing to make some compromises and a plan to save the money to get what she wants. Things like that.
You just have to realize that, in MY opinion, you can't give all of yourself, with nothing or little back and have it work. Eventually it does catch up and in my cases... ends in me blowing up.

I'm not sure what to say exactly. My communication isn't always that great. But you just have to slow down, breathe, come back to earth in a sense. Do a reality check. Think about it.

I have Virgo in 12th so that may help some. It does help to keep me grounded and use logic. But I think with the 12th, one of the main keys to working with it is knowing what to embrace and what to ignore. Before you act, do a reality check. It's filled with so much dreaminess and wonder you almost have to do that. Just stop, think, check reality, even if a person had to write something down. Hey, whatever works really.

Barbie and I have Virgo Sun in composite, so we do sit, think, use logic, plan for things and come up with a way to achieve them. I think that helps since we both have 12th placements. Natally, she has Venus 1st though, but our composite Venus is 12 Libra.

Just bring yourself down to earth sometimes. Check in with logic before you act and don't be afraid to be a little selfish to mix in with that selfless. Don't be a afraid to say no.

Anyway, I got a little wordy there but I wasn't sure if it made sense. Still not sure, but I hope so. I hope it helped.

---

"Did you ever have trouble with desiring people that were just impossible to have? I mean, people you know, but they are taken, live far away, not interested in you like that, etc. Or even drawn in people who were taken? I have Venus square Neptune as well and that's another ballgame I guess. LOL"

YES!!!! This!!! It has happened to me several times actually. The first time was when I was a little girl. My first childhood love who I absolutely loved dearly for my entire childhood/teens and into early adulthood was an unrequited love situation. If a child could be in love..I was...and it broke my heart over and over again. This last time I fell in love with a married man...it has been more painful then the childhood love.

Did you ever feel like you needed validation or compliments from people to boost your self-esteem?

posted June 30, 2014 11:03 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by tgem:
"Did you ever have trouble with desiring people that were just impossible to have? I mean, people you know, but they are taken, live far away, not interested in you like that, etc. Or even drawn in people who were taken? I have Venus square Neptune as well and that's another ballgame I guess. LOL"

YES!!!! This!!! It has happened to me several times actually. The first time was when I was a little girl. My first childhood love who I absolutely loved dearly for my entire childhood/teens and into early adulthood was an unrequited love situation. If a child could be in love..I was...and it broke my heart over and over again. This last time I fell in love with a married man...it has been more painful then the childhood love.

Did you ever feel like you needed validation or compliments from people to boost your self-esteem?

Yes, I REALLY need to work on loving myself so I can ultimately be loved in return...just don't know quite how to do that.

---

posted June 30, 2014 11:43 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by sc0rpioRising:
Hey.. happy to answer ur question.. ! Ive had two very important people in the life who had very scorpionic energy. One had moon and venus in scorpio.. also in his 12th house.. whay i felt with that person was obligation.. because they were attracted to me.. i felt like i 'should be' attracted to them. So it was like an obligation to be in a relationship with them... but it didnt work.. we had a lot of saturn ties... keeps us in eachoyher lives even now.. but i felt like i was always put down, i was moody. Just felt obligated to be them because he liked me! How crazy does that sound... that is my own self undoing.

The second person had sun mercury pluto in scorpio.. which hit my 12th house.. i felt like he knew me before even getting to know him... again he was attracted to me but i wasnt.. until he made a move on me.. completely put the blue.. had no idea.. and then again.. i felt obligated to like him be there for him, but it was incredible furstrating cos it wasnt mutual my feelings biilt over time.. and then was i was completely drawn in.. he let go... and i was completrly broken.. i mean drinking amd crying everyday.. i did what i could to keep him with me.. and then i just became moody cos i couldnt believe how someone would manipulate my feelings that way. I mean he made a move on me.. whilst being with someone else.. but in my head i thought it was ok because he was trying to break up with her.. and he used to tell everyone how he woyld never even look at another person... i would listen but never react.. cos no one knew what happened. In the end we ended up with so much pain.. he decided to jet off to south America... and he is enjoying his life.. im left with regrets.. i wish he never laod his eyes on me.. i wish i can erase him from my memory.. i wish i had more control over my emotions and mot feeel vunerable.. again it was my own self undoung.. i allowed these feelings to develop.. even though i knew i would be hurt.. i did things for him.. even though i knew i would be in pain.. this is.. to me.. very 12th house bhaviour.. the person whp sacrifices.. the peron who just feels guilt. The person who gives and is scared of the rejection.. and ends up losing that person anyway. 12th house scorpio in my opinion is scary... i hate the way i feel scorpios know me.. and i have no control over it.. a 12th house rising is also complicated.. thats how i can sum it up.. i always thought 12th house energy is quite spiritual.. unconditional love.. but i just felt pain.. and i think thats due to 12th house saturn.. i dont know how to love my self.. so how can anyome else..?

---

Hey, don't be so depressed. Every girl has relationship lessons to learn, we all make mistakes. Confront your limitations and shortcomings but please don't blame yourself. I'm not an expert on relationship but to me fear is a self-fulfilling prophecy, so you can work on your fear. This thread is a good start already, send you encouraging thoughts

posted June 30, 2014 01:25 PM            

I started becoming shocked as it almost appears that each relationship happened FOR those reasons. Kind of crazy now that I think about it.
A lot of times people feel as though someone must be responsible for relationships not working out. The truth is, yes, sometimes but not always.
Things happen.
I'll give you an example.
My ex-wife left for another guy. However, I wasn't a great husband. I didn't pay attention to her, I didn't talk to her a lot, I didn't want to go places with her. I wanted to do my own thing. So honestly, I fell out of love before she found another man. I stayed and carried on the relationship but truth was that I was no longer in love. It showed in her finding that other man.

It could be argued that, "Hey, it's my fault. I didn't give her what she needed." or "No it's her fault. There's no excuse for that. She should have worked on you."

Well, the truth is, it's done. It happened. There were several things that played into it. Subtle things all over. It's just an event really. It took both of us. But, I went to college. Pretty much right after I graduated, we split. I kind of see that as the purpose of that marriage.

In the end, it was just something that happened. It's done, it's a part of history. I learned things, I got an education. I'm glad that it happened, but I'm glad that it's over also. I love Barbie more than I ever COULD have loved the ex. It's just a totally different and way more amazing relationship.

posted June 30, 2014 03:07 PM            

OMG DF...this EXACT same thing happened to me except I was the wife...and I guy I fell for was the married man I mentioned in the earlier post. My ex treated me the exact same way..I tried so hard for a year to rekindle the marriage but his actions (or should I say..lack there of) already gave me my answer. As a matter of fact, he was the one that filed, not me.

posted July 01, 2014 02:09 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by tgem:
"My ex-wife left for another guy. However, I wasn't a great husband. I didn't pay attention to her, I didn't talk to her a lot, I didn't want to go places with her. I wanted to do my own thing. So honestly, I fell out of love before she found another man. I stayed and carried on the relationship but truth was that I was no longer in love. It showed in her finding that other man."

OMG DF...this EXACT same thing happened to me except I was the wife...and I guy I fell for was the married man I mentioned in the earlier post. My ex treated me the exact same way..I tried so hard for a year to rekindle the marriage but his actions (or should I say..lack there of) already gave me my answer. As a matter of fact, he was the one that filed, not me.

Wow! So interesting to hear this exact same scenario. From the husbands point of view? I don't mean to probe, but did she actually have the affair? How did you feel about it when you realized she was in love with another man? And then I'll tell you from my point of view. So glad you found Barbie..I'm sure there were a lot of lessons that were learned!

---

Well, I'll keep this short, kind of. LOL
It really is like... IDK. Just a story almost.
She met this guy online. He lived like... 800 miles away. About an hour from her parents. She didn't really hide anything too much. They claimed to be "best friends". But she started working out when she never did before. That's a sign. Anyway, I saw some messages. I got angry. Then I put my foot down. Then I played Mr. Nice Guy and tried to be friends with the guy. Then I put my foot down again. She listened but moped around all depressed. So I said to go ahead and keep talking to the guy. I knew then it was over most likely. I offered to get professional help because... that's what you do right?
She wouldn't. It was like a 6 month ordeal.
She met him once when she went down there with a friend to go to a Hockey game.
Then, one day she says she is taking some time off and wants to go see him. She said she wanted to see where her "best friend" lives..... seriously? I wasn't buying it but I really didn't say much.
During that week she NEVER called me. I called her twice. About 10 minutes each and she was very very cold.
She came back and said, "I think we make better friends than spouses. Don't you think?"
I said, "I married you to be your husband and nothing less. If I'm not that, I'm nothing."
That was that! A she slept in the other room and moved out a few weeks later.
I really had confirmation that I didn't love her when the first night that I came home from work and she was gone. I felt so happy and free. I was doing little dances in the house.
I was only mad at what she did. I thought if you want to leave then leave. Don't be a coward and find your greener grass first. Just go. That's how I feel. That's how I've been. But anyway...
We never talked since. That was years ago and I've never seen her, talked to her, anything, and I never cared a tiny bit about it.
That's the story! (short version)

posted July 01, 2014 10:09 AM            

I find it interesting how you kind of reacted the same way with your ex-wife...like you knew what was happening but kinda was in denial about it?? And it sounds like by the dancing around the house after she left, it was a good decision LOL

The most painful part of that whole experience for me was losing the other guy!!!

Again...that's what I mean about the venus in the 12th issue: I sacrificed my happiness, pleasure and what I needed from a man to stay married to my husband because I had made the vows. One of the many sacrifices I made for my Ex husband that he never realized or chose to appreciate. And I was absolutely heartbroken about it.

My NN is in the 4th house Libra so I know my lessons are about love and partnerships. I truly believe it's about balance in that I deserve to be happy and fulfilled as much as the other person...I just give too much so I feel loved by someone...all at the expense of my needs.

I'm living alone now (well, with my son) and I don't have another man in my life, although the Ex seems to have moved on just fine. But I'm ok with it...actually I'm happy. I love my solitude as most venus in 12's do. My ex use to criticize me harshly for taking naps with my son during the day..he'd ridicule me harshly... But he couldn't understand I needed that time to simply re-energize myself due to dealing with a special needs child all day. It wasn't until I started studying astrology and 12th houser's that I learned how much they really need their solitude and that it's ok...there's nothing wrong with it and I shouldn't feel guilty for needing it.

posted July 01, 2014 12:13 PM            

Wow sorry to hear that. I mean, it sucks to have a son involved. I still have no kids so I can't relate all that much.

I didn't find the ex attractive any more for one thing. She seemed boring, etc.
My ex wife remarried soon after and as fas I know they are still married years later.

NN... yes. I just always have trouble wrapping my head around that. But with NN in 4th Libra. It makes sense that you need to find balance in your home life (relationships). Even as Libra is a relationship sign!

My NN is 2nd house Scorpio. I'm not sure how emotion and intensity relate to money. Conjunct Uranus also.

But the "other" guy. He's gone?

If you haven't, there must be some lesson there. I believe that there's a lesson for us everywhere. If nothing else we can make them lessons - something to learn.

It's awesome that you are having these couple years now to work on yourself. For a venus in 12th, I just seems important. To set that baseline. Discover what your real needs are. You know, I got to this point where I discovered things that I was unwilling to give up. What I expected.
What's funny is doing all that actually prepared ME to be a "healthy" spouse.
It's so difficult to explain.

posted July 02, 2014 08:48 AM            

Thanks for all the advice..I have grown so much in this last year alone. I now know what I need..what I can't live without, what I'm willing to tolerate and what I'm not. And yes, next time around I want to be that "better" spouse..because next time I want it to be forever!