posted August 06, 2014 08:11 PM            

The house person may be resistant to this almost fated, intense connection. The 12th is not an evil house, but it is a sensitive house, and the house person may struggle with opening up all while feeling the intense desire to do so. Trust issues may come into play. However, when trust is established, the floodgates can come crashing open and the house person may feel comfortable revealing to the planet person some deeply held secrets or beliefs.

posted August 06, 2014 08:39 PM            

YES though. I think you nailed what I sensed from him all the time! I thought he was just being oppositional, so maybe this is why. Scorpio ruled his 12th house (*that explains a lot* right?!) We haven't spoken in 2 months but it still doesn't feel "done", you know? Does Pluto cause that?

posted August 06, 2014 09:06 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by hannaramaa:
That sounded straight of a textbook

YES though. I think you nailed what I sensed from him all the time! I thought he was just being oppositional, so maybe this is why. Scorpio ruled his 12th house (*that explains a lot* right?!) We haven't spoken in 2 months but it still doesn't feel "done", you know? Does Pluto cause that?

His Pluto was also in Scorpio, so I'm guessing that conjunct my Pluto in the 5th house which would then oppose my Moon in the 11th. His Moon probably fell in my 7th house somewhere, and his Sun in my 11th.

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LOL...that's my 3H Saturn for you.

I'm glad it was accurate and provided some insights for you with your situation with this person. Feeling like things are not 'over' yet despite wanting to move on or having fights is definitely related to Saturn and Pluto in synastry [and composite, too, for the matter].

posted August 06, 2014 10:04 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by hannaramaa:
^^ I think he was Scorpionic only because I assign more Scorpionic traits to Sag people than is normally characterized. He had Sag ASC and Sag Moon, but natally his Pluto would've fell in his own 12th house. On top of that he had Venus in Pisces. You know, now that you say about probing and whatnot, it seemed like he was only making conversation and he never pressed for info but I was more secretive around him than usual when I like someone. Like I just felt an instinct to keep everything hidden and private even though there wasn't any threat in revealing myself.

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posted August 06, 2014 10:38 PM            

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Originally posted by sweet-scorpion:
Natal Pluto in the 12th is a powerful but potentially difficult placement. I'm a Sagittarius rising with the very same placement, actually. It has its ups and downs. I'm more open sometimes than other times. Also, what you were feeling about wanting to be instinctually secretive is very much the expression of the Moon-Pluto opposition between you two. I can see that.

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What's that placement do for you? Or how does it manifests for you?

posted August 06, 2014 10:58 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by hannaramaa:
I've never felt that way before with other Moon / Pluto though. Any speculation as to why? I guess it just manifests in different ways. It's like I really enjoyed him asking me questions because most guys I like don't…with most guys I liked we usually just talk but there's no opportunity to be personal like that, and yet it surprised me too and I was caught off guard so I felt like I had to be very careful with anything I said or did. So weird for an Aries Sun / Gem ASC! Lol. Yet with Moon / Pluto you'd think we would be up each other's ***** , but it wasn't like that. Or maybe he was resisting, idk.

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Very interesting...perhaps there are other aspects, maybe even in the composite, that are creating a subconscious sense of fear about being probed even when it isn't openly happening. I can see the bright side of Moon-Pluto being the Moon benefiting from the transformation Pluto tries to instill in terms of emotional habits and psychological patterns. Pluto will take a high interest in the Moon person and the Moon person may feel pleased though somewhat unnerved...I get that sense from you. I'd be really interested to see a pic of the synastry and composite, too, if you're open to posting. I'm a visual person, so it would be easy for me to see why this particular M-P aspect feels different for you.

quote:

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Originally posted by hannaramaa:
What's that placement do for you? Or how does it manifests for you?

I wonder if I felt it so much because I have Moon trine Neptune and Moon opposition Pluto?

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For me, the placement manifests in a really unique way. It is trine my 8H Mars in Cancer closely. It disposits my Venus, NN, Mercury and Jupiter. It is semi-sextile my Sun. I feel that Pluto here has made me have a great reservoir of inner strength. An immense capability to psychologically transform. Psychic powers and an amazing self-awareness. But also a tendency to self-destruct spiritually and psychologically, since the 12th house is not negative but can also lead to self-undoings if you do not follow the correct 'path' that a planet here asks you to take. Pluto here asks me to stop seeking extremes and pushing it, because though I feel I do at times, I don't have 9 lives. Pluto is asking me to be kind to everyone but also myself, and not to fall back on vengeance and malice when someone hurts me. It is a very frustrating placement in a sense because I have so much pent-up anger, and Pluto here is a sign of that...but it's also here because there is SOME reason it can't be expressed openly and that needs to be figured out and healed.

posted August 06, 2014 11:21 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by hannaramaa:
Sure I can post it, what house system are you most comfortable with?

And REALLY informative take on Pluto in the 12th! I was expecting something like "I feel everyone's everything," or something because it's a Water house ruled by Water and intensified by Pluto, but you didn't mention any of that. I also learned more about my own Mars in the 12th house… so the house is saying "You don't need to get angry so much" which I do, often, or did rather.

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posted August 06, 2014 11:29 PM            

Just saw the chart. His Pluto isn't in his 12th like I thought it would be since he has a Sag ASC…

posted August 07, 2014 12:05 AM            

Observations on synastry: [For some reason I wrote in the present tense which was my mistake. Since you aren't speaking anymore, which I forgot...]

1. His Saturn is loosely conjunct your DES point, opposing your Mars. His Chiron conjuncts your Mars. His Pluto in your 5th, opposing your 11th house Moon: This person may have a wizened personality that eventually gets grating on your nerves and can rouse hidden aggressions inside of you. At the best, you want a longterm or serious union where you can be more sexually assertive but, he may want to take control from you in certain partnership areas.

This can both upset and stimulate you and this is why he may have said you were subtly or underhandedly controlling, maybe the 12th house influence made you blind to how he saw you as trying to control the relationship [or him]. He may try to dominate your free time either consciously or unconsciously; perhaps he feels a strong emotional bond or a bond of some kind to you, and often asks you what you're doing and if you can have one on one time alone. However this is a direct contrast to the emotional freedom you seek at times, where you want to be among many different friends and special people in your life because this is the 11th house Moon's function. Your emotional energies are geared and funneled entirely into the romantic relationship you have with him at times and it can be both passionately exciting but tiring. You can have it one way or the other, it's your choice - either be with him a lot, or have more emotional freedom to not be so involved in a romantic relationship, but you feel torn between the two options and may create this 'one or the other' circumstance.

2. His Venus and Sun are not aspected. His Neptune sits in your 7th, and is trine your Moon. His Uranus is conjunct your DES point: I sense that a kind of unique attraction occurs between you two...he may tap into an idealistic or sensitive, hidden part of your heart, maybe a more romantic side to your nature, and makes you feel a bit dreamier about love and how relationships work. Just be careful not to get too lost in idealism. He may come in and out of your life unexpectedly or maybe his physical location is not always known [he's bad at responding to calls or texts right away] but I don't think it bothers you too much, it's more relaxed/welcomed in a sense from the Moon-Neptune contact. He may have a dominating ego in the partnership combined with the Saturn-DES and Saturn-Mars aspect, you're attracted to the force of his will and open expression of self. He may be uninhibited about romantic affection. All of this will be overblown because both planets are un-aspected and therefore he may be secretly or not-so-secretly insecure about how you receive his affections and how his presence affects you.

Composite:

1. Moon in the 12th can perhaps point to either one of you feel like you're being too emotionally guarded in a way. Perhaps more you than him, since you gave this statement...maybe things in your childhood weren't ideal in terms of emotional security, now you have the chance to really open up some of the deeper and darker parts of your heart with M-P in synastry but you might be subconsciously paranoid that he won't 'get it' or it could be used against you, etc.

2. Venus is loosely square Neptune so one partner has a tendency to over-idealize the other, I have a feeling he may do that since his Venus is in Aries and was totally un-aspected so he sees only the positive or beautiful sides of you, and this may be the subconscious reason why you feel hesitant to reveal weakness as you don't want to break the positive picture he paints of you. Or maybe he just isn't seeing the relationship as realistically or pragmatically as you are. It can be a combination of things.

3. ASC in Pisces shows that there is definitely a sense of being bonded together in an almost ethereal way, like you two can feel close without even needing to be right next to each other.

4. Mars in Gemini is right on the IC and makes a yod with a quincunx to Pluto and Neptune. This can be complicated as the expression of direction and sexual energy shared can fluctuate between gentle and confusing and unrealistic [Neptune], and sexually passionate to aggressive and challenging in a negative way, probably verbal attacks [Pluto, also Gemini influence]. Biggest issue I see is that one partner may be more serious than the other. Mars in the 4th shows an aggressive stance about home and family. Quincunx from 4H Mars to 9H Pluto shows one partner wants to expand horizons while the other wants to stay put.

5. Pluto in the 9th basically borders the cusp of the 8th...and it's opposed 2H Jupiter in Taurus. So expect one of you to be more extravagant with spending like on dates, etc. than the other, and it may cause some tension. Also, there's the possibility of two totally different backgrounds when it comes to money from family and work. One partner may be wealthier than the other and this can lead to some friction/tension.

6. I also see Mercury square Neptune. The whole theme of the relationship is very Neptunian. There is the possibility of learning about the self when either of you lets go of control. His Moon conjunct Saturn is very controlling, in a way, restricting his emotional growth/freedom of expression, so perhaps he'll have a harder time with such a relationship's energy vs. you, a Moon-Neptune person.

posted August 07, 2014 12:40 AM            

I actually LOVED our one on one time, and I smothered him at first I think, which upset him. When he wanted me though, he did want me to be available and was pushy about it. He was kind of intense - I met all his close friends the first time we met, and he was already inviting me to his birthday party before we'd even met in person.

I was doing so good until I started opening up to him and then I think I thought that made us close but he kept me at arm's length. (I'm not excusing his behavior 'cause I know how I deserve to be treated, but he did come from a bad relationship recently so…there was that. He had way more baggage than me.)

I did like how he was forceful and yet kind. I need that in someone otherwise I lose interest. He was more how you described my 11th house Moon - many friends and acquaintances and very much a social butterfly. That fits with my Sun and Venus in my own 11th house, too, but I'm saying compared to him I only had a few friends.

Now for the 2nd part about the weird attraction - again, yes! Seriously I really didn't know what I wanted with him other than to have him all to myself until I decided. We hung out on his terms (-_-) so that was once every week or few weeks. For some reason I couldn't feel his physical attraction to me. We'd gotten together a few times, but even so. Intuitively, he felt more like a fragile, cute little puppy even though he acted like an ******* . Like when he would get mad at me it was easy for me to shrug it off 'cause I could see the hurt through his anger without him having to say anything. Eventually I got frustrated not knowing what the hell I wanted to do with him and just gave him his stuff back abruptly and left. He thinks it's because he didn't respond to my text immediately (we fought about that a lot! I don't understand not responding with simple answers, especially when he would respond in the beginning. He'd take HOOOOURS to respond to me later and I'm like 'wtf'? So I'm sure it came off controlling and kind of like "Who's this lady telling me when I should respond?" but to me it's just considerate if you know the other person is waiting for you. I don't play stupid games like that anymore. I mean we're 25 and 27, COME ON.)

I think he felt an emotional bond to me but I didn't feel one to him 'cause he was mean at times and the texting thing, etc. Bascially I think his needs were getting met by me, but mine weren't getting met by him and it was throwing me off. I'm used to not even having to express what I need, period. I think he was scared to say what he wanted, but I also kind of doubt myself on that because I couldn't feel why he was scared.

Does all that make sense with our synastry?

posted August 07, 2014 04:39 PM            

I'm sorry to hear that he wasn't a good person in your life...from what you told me, it seems like there were both Neptunian and Plutonian themes going on there were more negative than positive, unfortunately. Specifically the victim-like role he took on: I'm bad for you, but I need you...that's always a very frustrating personality to deal with. :'/ I've also encountered someone like this before.

Pluto in the 5th is quite magnetic, and either one or both people can feel very possessive of each other, so lighthearted romance is usually not going to happen. How quickly you two became involved really speaks of this placement. Pulling back when you opened up sounds a lot like his Moon-Saturn conjunction reacting negatively to too much personal intimacy. I'm glad you have a sense of self-worth and you don't excuse his behavior. Even if he'd come from a bad relationship at that time, it still isn't an excuse to play mind games. And unfortunately, Moon-Pluto in synastry or composite [or both] can lead to mind games and emotionally charged power plays.

Sorry I mis-read the chart with his Venus in Aries! I was so tired last night...also I'm moving, so that's kind of making my thought process a little foggy, haha. This makes even more sense, then. Definitely emphasizes how you two had Venus sq. Neptune and other hard Neptune aspects in the composite chart.

It's always frustrating when you have to do things on someone else's terms. I can see that with his Saturn in your 7th house, and Moon there too [and M-P, of course]. I can really see how his Neptune in your 7th manifested as long absences between seeing each other too. I feel like your Aries energy was not entirely compatible with his victim energy, because Aries wants action and straightforward communication...seems like he was really victim to Neptune's influence, especially how he was distant in communication and seemed more broken and innocent than he really was. His Moon-Saturn conj. was probably being too literal for you, too...where he thought something he didn't do or say made you two break up when it really went deeper than that. Seems to me like you were really tapping into how he has some issues with being emotionally disconnected and not knowing what he wants in a relationship.

There's just too much withholding on his part, in terms of how much emotion he can receive and give. I sensed that about him, and the fact that he seems to want someone to care for him more than he can care for anyone else. Mid to late 20s is too old to be playing these games and victim roles, though...seems like he broods over certain things, but that has to stop eventually if he wants to be happy.

posted August 08, 2014 05:35 PM            

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Originally posted by hannaramaa:
I think he only withheld because I did. If I can, the first time I spent the night he surprised me by getting kind of emotional (not crying, but being mushy and cuddling and telling me he's not as confident as he seems, and that he thinks In good at protecting myself.) I know most girls dream of that but for whatever reason it made me super uncomfortable. I was feeling more amorous and wasn't really interested in having a heart to heart. I wasn't sure if that was his Venus in Pisces expressing itself or something in our composite. I haven't gotten a chance to check, but maybe later tonight I'll have a minute!

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