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Author Topic:   URGENT HELP NEEDED: Defining a Fated Lifetime Relationship
Aubyanne
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posted September 10, 2014 01:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aubyanne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Apologies for the melodrama. I REALLY need assistance on this ASAP.

I have to make a decision on Thursday night that will influence my personal, professional, and, very likely, spiritual life for the considerable future. And not only mine, either.

A month past, iQ stated that my relationship with the man I refer to alternately as my partner and my Guardian Soulmate (working theory) is karmic, fated, (two different things) and we are 'destined for a lifetime relationship' (hence the 'fated' part).

But he was vague on how. Or why. Or what. Simply that we are a natural team that can accomplish incredible things together.

I believe this. Wholeheartedly. The things we've done already are impressive.

So ... where's the fire? Here comes the segue. (Like that? Nice and smooth.)

From late 2011 to spring 2013, we'd fallen into an easy enough platonic relationship (even though we were exploring an affectionate and physical -- but not sexual -- relationship three months after we'd met, January 2010) largely due to my Twin resurfacing, our engaging in the 'Twin Flame Tango of 2012' complete with dramatic (and I do mean dramatic) exit January 2013.

Honestly, it took my realising how I'd buried my previous feelings for my Twin to contemplate it wasn't so easy a platonic dynamic with my partner; perhaps, I was just in denial of them.

Sigh. I was. Ohhhh, was I. But so had he been, to an extent. So that when March 2013 'happened' -- my Twin and I shelved our project and he took a local job in his field, and my partner suddenly confessed that his feelings for me had NEVER changed, and he was tired of hiding from intimacy.

... Wow.

By October, our relationship had become sexual. It has consistently been so since December. That, ironically, is and isn't my issue. It's the faulty premise under which we begun this: casually, with no labels nor expectations. That didn't become a problem until sex left the realm of the exploratory, oddly clinical and routine (MOON and EROS at the IC -- but in Aquarius, for chrissake), and suddenly became intimate. And I mean, intimate. The most intimate I honestly think I've ever experienced. With anyone. Period.

Over the course of a year, we systematically deconstructed sexual intercourse with the sort of practised distance of which only two schizoids are capable. There's no question we've both learnt more than we ever truly imagined we might. And it was probably inevitable we'd put the pieces all back together after thoroughly examining what it is they do, (and marvelling that more people don't -- which is a separate issue) and find that everything works far better that it ever had before.

What I don't think either of us prepared for was the tiny space all of that careful research and over-control and excessive planning left open for nothing to exist within.

And by nothing, I mean everything.

It was in that forgotten fragment of time, in which all else was accounted for, sorted out, understood and dissected; with the gears all running smoothly and nothing to direct our focus away from us, we stumbled into each other, across the vast space which had existed between the two of us; truly finding ourselves -- together -- for the first time.

... I REALLY hadn't anticipated that. I don't think he had, either. I took many days to process it. He's never that forthcoming. While entirely trustworthy, we just don't talk about THAT part of it. Oh, the technicalities of it, the theories surrounding it, what adjacent research might yield better insight or even results? Absolutely. As a matter of course.

But, uh, the intimacy of it, which we finally tripped over? Noooooo. As my husband has said several times, we can't discuss anything that would actually force us to deal with our vulnerabilities. And, it's true in a lot of ways. HE's been the one to help ease his concerns, or clue him into the fact that he wasn't being very attentive, (he had to learn that) or be his usual blunt self where the two of us can't quite get the words out. (Funny, huh? Being writers. It's the schizoid thing. Too detached from our emotions.)

iQ said that our biggest stumbling block is the fact we tend to distance, detach, intellectualise, and be overly rational and logical with each other. I mean, even sex was that way -- the one thing I figured couldn't ever be.

And then, one day, it wasn't. And it's ... changed me.

It's changed him, too. I can feel that. See it. We both can. But what gets me is ... this sudden, inexplicable fear of abandonment that's creeped in after the karmic transits which unearthed a lot of very specific Soulmate karma.

I have the chance to really make this work here, but I'd have to accept being vulnerable -- and how vulnerable he makes me feel.

But what if we're just supposed to work together, as a lifetime partnership? In which I have to ask -- why did it become sexual? Why didn't it just never become 'unearthed' ? Why didn't the emotion just stay as an undercurrent?

We've all seen it before, but ... here it is again.

What kind of 'fated lifetime relationship' is this?

(Apologies for the crappy quality of the composite; not sure why it's that blurry.)

If anyone wants to chime in, please do. I've got plenty of others to post if need be -- Draco, synastry with other points, different composites, and so on.

Thanks. Really. Thank you. I need some help here.

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Ceridwen
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posted September 10, 2014 01:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
no astrological observatons as of now (well yes, Eros-Priapus in synastry, Eros on the IC in composite).

But to me it sounds like you are afraid.
But this is actually your chance to grow more, it is time to face the music and dance, and yes that means allowing yourself to become vulnerable. It is scary, I admit that, but I think there is no way around it, if you want to continue on your path. The next step of personal evolution. Allowing vulnerability.

Just my thoughts. maybe I am wrong.

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Aubyanne
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posted September 10, 2014 02:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aubyanne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ceridwen:
no astrological observatons as of now (well yes, Eros-Priapus in synastry, Eros on the IC in composite).

But to me it sounds like you are afraid.
But this is actually your chance to grow more, it is time to face the music and dance, and yes that means allowing yourself to become vulnerable. It is scary, I admit that, but I think there is no way around it, if you want to continue on your path. The next step of personal evolution. Allowing vulnerability.

Just my thoughts. maybe I am wrong.


Oh, Ceri .... You're not wrong. I'm terrified. These 'memories' came through so strongly. Just this awful feeling of loss. Like when he'd left before, November 2010. That was ... that's the reason why my emotions were buried.

I wish I knew if it really is evolving, or if I'm just afraid of losing him, which is preventing me from letting him ... leave. I can't look beyond my own fears. I can't just ... let him go; be okay with that.

Is that ... growth? Or am I holding him back by feeling as if I need -- want -- him to commit to this? Shouldn't I want him to find someone? Isn't that ... what I should want?

Why don't I?

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Aubyanne
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posted September 10, 2014 04:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aubyanne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Any other takers?

To be completely blunt here, I'm not sure how we can extricate ourselves from this without some sort of severe backlash. We're just not the types to cut-and-run this way naturally, and I can't quite fathom how we'd have this lifelong partnership / relationship IF everything goes terribly wrong now.

But IS there anything in our synastry and composite that stands to define this as a long term emotional / sexual / romantic -- otherwise, non-platonic -- relationship?

The vagary of 'love or no love, caring and lifelong' is confusing to me. I'm not saying we'd NEVER get over it and put it past us -- but in four years, it's JUST as intense as it was when we met. That's practically unheard of for me.

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Dancing Maenad
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posted September 10, 2014 05:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dancing Maenad     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't see how this could not have been an intimate relationship. From Moon placements alone, his falls in your 8th, yours falls in his 12th and the composite Moon is in the 4th, conjunct the friggin IC. All water houses. Sure, it becomes an issue of expressing it - perhaps there were some triggers to or from Mercury by transit and/or progression that brought on this change? Personally, I think the potential was always there. I think comp Uranus on Asc, opp Chiron and Vertex is going to be bringing several experiences such as this, over and over again. Just when you'll think you have it figured out and getting ready to put it in a box, it will surprise you with yet another DEEP and startling event. I'm anticipating when t-Uranus will reach 22-23 Aries it will get even more interesting. Why the durability - I find DC ruler in the 1st, in a FIXED sign, trined by Saturn as a big gluing factor. Might not be as strong as Saturn on an angle or Venus, but it will keep you coming back to one another until you have lived all that you intended to and experienced all, together. I doubt it is over, or going bad, now - I don't think it's done yet and the energy will have its way like it or not. Hold on to your seat. Mars sq composite Moon? Really, the sex must be amazing. Analyze all you want, Aqua Moon, Mars is instinctual and will have his way eventually. Scorpio can wait a long time.

------------------
~the raving one dancing in the nude~

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MorpHnStorM
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posted September 10, 2014 05:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MorpHnStorM     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Aubyanne:
I have the chance to really make this work here, but I'd have to accept being vulnerable -- and how vulnerable he makes me feel.

But what if we're just supposed to work together, as a lifetime partnership? In which I have to ask -- why did it become sexual? Why didn't it just never become 'unearthed' ? Why didn't the emotion just stay as an undercurrent?


Because it truly was fated to happen this way...I agree with Ceri, and I would add, and you probably don't want to hear this right now (again...because I realize I'm telling you something you already know); it really would be a good idea for you to meditate on this one. Again, I know you know this stuff, but I understand how anxiety can cloud things and make this process that much more difficult.

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Aubyanne
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posted September 10, 2014 05:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aubyanne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Maenad! I was so close to talking to myself, it's embarrassing. You hit on several major points; some I was thinking of, but a few I wasn't. And THIS is why we share astrology; collaborate and brainstorm and powwow.

Thank you for diving in here.

The progressions absolutely triggered things; you ready for this? My pVENUS exactly conjunct my nSUN; his pSUN exactly conjunct nVENUS -- and, the frosting --- his nMARS conjunct my pVENUS, 3° -- applying.

When I think of that, I really DO wonder HTF we could actually manage civility in the face of SO much intensity. Oh, yes, cMOON in AQU does quite a bit to be very logical and matter-of-fact about it all; keep it friendly, be clinical about it. No need for messy emotion!

Did I mention his pMARS? 11° Scorpio.

(No, I'm not kidding.)

So, the only way it could REALLY derail now is if he ... can't close that other door. And, for some reason, I'm feeling that's a LOT to ask someone -- especially a man nearing fifty, who's thought somewhere in the back of his brain, he'd surely 'someday' have the wife and kids. Instead, he can have someone else's wife, and play uncle to someone else's kid.

Ugh. I honestly feel like I horrible person. Like I ought to push him out -- again -- like the debacle years ago, in which, for several months, I took him at his word and sought to help him acquire a relationship.

It really, really hurt. Now the thought is unbearable. But even then, there was nobody. I'll never forget the look upon his face when he practically shouted at me, did I KNOW how rare I am? How there just isn't ANYONE even remotely like me? It was as if he was ... angry.

I always have this sneaking and awful suspicion that he's accepting of what it is we have, so long as the option is always open -- the door is always there -- should he suddenly decide to find someone and begin a real relationship. My husband says it's really impossible that he'd be able to even manage that. BUT. It's enough to make me wary. To fear the day that he utters those panic-inducing words, 'I've met someone.'

Because, honestly, could I do anything BUT make myself let go? It's not in my nature to hold on if I feel they're invariably getting a better deal.

I wonder why I've never considered myself the better deal. Huh. But then I tell myself I'm rationalising. So that I can hang on, and it'd be justified.

God. It's confusing.

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Aubyanne
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posted September 10, 2014 05:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aubyanne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MorpHnStorM:
Because it truly was fated to happen this way...I agree with Ceri, and I would add, and you probably don't want to hear this right now (again...because I realize I'm telling you something you already know); it really would be a good idea for you to meditate on this one. Again, I know you know this stuff, but I understand how anxiety can cloud things and make this process that much more difficult.

I have. For DAYS. And, NOT to discount what you're saying. No, no -- not at all. I just feel I'm going mad with all of the damned thinking.

And, inevitably, catastrophising. The anxiety IS clouding everything for me. I'll think I'm getting 'signs' that I'm holding him back; that I SHOULD be the one to help him reconnect with himself, especially his sexuality -- to be capable of real intimacy -- so that he can be the product of true growth, by finding 'the right one' and settling down.

Yes, it's like a knife in the heart. Yes, he feels like something my soul can't define, and, somehow just as much as my Twin, so distinctively mine in a way. But what if I'm just being possessive? What if I'm falling into the same trap all over again? Aren't I supposed to be letting go?

Aren't I, being 'so evolved' and all, supposed to be able to help him to heal so that he CAN go and be with someone? WHY can't I just bloody do that? Why am I not strong enough?

I don't get it. Am I letting us down by being unable to let him go (because I did NOT anticipate on all of THIS when it was starting out) or by not fighting for it? By not blazing some insane trail, and saying that, no, THIS is right; THIS is what we came here for; THIS is why he hasn't 'found the one out there for him' because he was correct when he said that he already had -- me.

I just don't know what's fear and what's ... fate. What's right.

Thanks, Morph.

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Ceridwen
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posted September 10, 2014 05:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
sometimes what us Uranians call "letting go" is a hardly veiled attempt to "run away".

does he even WANT you to let him go?
Did he tell you this?

If not, stop thinking and overanalysing, and start FEELING, EXPERIENCING and SHARING (communication9 with him.

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libran_dream
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posted September 10, 2014 05:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for libran_dream     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My first thought was that the synastric Sun-Moon axis must be activated by some transiting square. That's a very busy axis in your synastry: your Sun, Pluto, BML, his Mars opposite his Moon and BML. Bunch of other things along for the ride, too. Such as his IC/NN midpoint, and Chiron/NN midpoint. And yes, Pluto just moved into orb to square it.

When it comes to exactly squaring your Sun-Moon axis, it will also be right on cBML. And when it moves OOO, it will be on YOUR natal vertex. A few years after that, on the cEros, then cMoon.
Pluto taking years to move, it's not going to move out of orb for the square until 2023. Sooo, yeah, lots of work ahead.

And right now, it is exactly opposite his Sun. The tSun is on your AC right now. Not to mention that tSaturn is slowly moving toward your Moon. tPluto moving through a synastric Sun-Moon axis square and moving toward cIC, and tSaturn moving toward your nMoon explains the fear to me.
I'm sure there are tonnes more factors, but these two are the most obvious ones to me.

So, if we tie this up in a neat little drama, we have a three person play. The Sun and the Moon in a bond; learning from each other, growing together, each relying on the other to cover a blind spot. A challenging relationship, but strong, deeply felt. And then the Pluto comes in between them, posing as a challenger. Seemingly trying to separate them. This configuration is very Mexican soap plot to me. The big bad social order conscious mother/aunt/stepfather/stepmother/whathaveyou trying to break up the pretty poor girl and the handsome wealthy heir, you know? Or maybe I watched too many telenovelas growing up...

From a less dramatic and more psychological perspective, I would say that what's going on here, for you, is your Sun going through the growing pains of internalizing its Lunar and Plutonian qualities.
Look into exact, or near exact, Grand Crosses that are forming as Pluto moves through Capricorn, that should give you clues on how things will develop. Those will be the big growth opportunities, or releases of Karma, as you put it.

A very deep catharsis is coming your way in the next few years. Fear is only the first step.

On another note, funny how your Sun/Moon midpoint is on his South Node.
Also, I can see that your IC/his Moon midpoint is on your South Node. So that speaks of intimacy quite clearly. I know not a lot of astrologers use mixed Planet/Angle midpoints but I love them.

What does the progression look like?

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Dancing Maenad
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posted September 10, 2014 05:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dancing Maenad     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Isn't Comp Mars on your Eros-Priapus conjunction? Lol, it seems like it is.


Granted, it is a tricky situation. But that is just because we attach reason to it, like Ceri said. Sadly, I don't see how you can control the way this will play, with that Uranus on Asc! Seriously, girl.. you will need to ride all that anxiety out because you know you can never count your eggs when Uranus is around - but if it were a time when what you fear might happen, it's when t-Uranus will conj comp DC. I said *might*, who knows, you might end up marrying him!

Point is, stop thinking, stop planning and just LIVE, experience, FEEL - this is the whirlwind of human life!

------------------
~the raving one dancing in the nude~

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Aubyanne
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posted September 10, 2014 05:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aubyanne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ceridwen:
sometimes what us Uranians call "letting go" is a hardly veiled attempt to "run away".

does he even WANT you to let him go?
Did he tell you this?

If not, stop thinking and overanalysing, and start FEELING, EXPERIENCING and SHARING (communication) with him.


He ... swings. Sometimes very wildly. I'm 'amiga', then I'm suddenly 'querida', then ... it's very conveniently lacking any need for any such term or word.

We've had several conversations of that nature over the past few years. I think the last one was the late October one in which we 'got back together', and when we discussed things around Hallowe'en, a few days later, he didn't want labels or definition. And I was fine pushing the 'we're friends with benefits' line. Hard.

... That was then.

He does know that things are changing for me, but it hasn't invited any conversations TO evaluate it for HIM. I'm going off of last October; no labels, no definition, and, he's always free to find someone. He attends a monthly event which is essentially a mixer, and always has new friends requests as a result -- even if he detests social networking. My heart pounds a little harder than normal when I see he's scheduled to go to that thing.

Ugh. SO ridiculous! Behaving this insane way!

Last I checked, roughly a year ago, he was still passively 'looking'. And I can never forget the conversations we've had in the past on the subject; just as he'd said, April 2011, that we would need to renegotiate the terms of everything were he to get married. Then, that registered as 'this is how things are until such a highly improbable event'. Now ...

I don't even know what I'm saying anymore. No labels or definition is what's most clear to me. The fact he's always 'looking' even if passively. There's no commitment. It's all been within this casual framework with which I had NO problem.

Until recently. And now it's almost as if I can't deal. I'm too raw, too vulnerable to try and just suck it up and still allow myself to be -- in the face of such uncertainty, knowing that ... those words are always hanging in the air, even if they're hypothetical. They're still there.

I could handle it then. Somehow, I just can't anymore.

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Aubyanne
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posted September 10, 2014 06:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aubyanne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The shorter answer to your question, Ceri: he hasn't NOT said it, either. He's said nothing either way. All I've got to go on is what's been said prior, and a few times.

Is this important to him? Certainly. Is it ALL he's looking for now? He's never said that; I've always taken the 'no labels, no definition' as a very casual and non committal approach.

And the hardest part for me is honestly stuffing down guilt over actually wanting him to just let it be me. Let that be enough. I get this nagging voice of, why should I stop him from looking? Why shouldn't he be free to pursue whatever he wants to? Aren't I doing him a disservice by trying to impose restrictions all of a sudden?

I thought I knew what I was doing; what to expect. I clearly don't. He's obviously changing, too. Really becoming a more complete, capable, and confident person. It's incredible to behold. Really, it is.

I worry I'm being so selfish. I wonder where that came from. Why my vulnerability hinges upon these selfish needs and demands.

... 8H PRIAPUS in Aries? That might be it.

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Vajra
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posted September 10, 2014 06:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Vajra     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Good morning, Aubyanne.

If I may: I think the uneasiness you feel could stem from your Scorpio Moon's (latent?) prophetic abilities, which picks up on the possibility that he might in the end be able to walk away from this situation and move on much more easily, and much faster, than you can. Aries Moon may be the most emotionally self-sufficient Moon placement there is; it's very good at looking out for number one and has not much trouble making tough decisions under pressure (unlike e.g. Libra). Also, it's a naive and chivalrous Moon, and its natives really want to be the other's "first choice" - so, this is of course not the optimal placement for being "the other one" in an emotional/sexual triangle situation. It's not jealous or possessive though, more like, well, "competitive". The possibility of a sudden reversal in your relationship with him is of course also indicated by your comp. Uranus on the AC.

Let me explain. Very strangely, 20 years ago I was in a somewhat similar position as the man you're dealing with, and I actually do share his Sun, Moon and Venus placements. Back then, I got involved with a Scorpio Moon man seven years my senior who was in a long-term open relationship. The deal was that we could have some fun for some time, and I intended to keep it. What happened was that we both fell madly in love with each other, due to the incredible intimacy we developed. With THAT his partner was not ok. I tried to run away then repeatedly, in order to keep up my end of the bargain (chivalrous, as I said), but he just couldn't let us go. It was an unbelievably gut-wrenching situation that took its toll on all three of us healthwise. In the end, he broke up with her to be with me. We actually were together (monogamously, as none of us would have been able to handle those abandonment issues ever again) for 13 years before we finally drifted apart without outside interference, and today are still very good friends.

The thing is, even though I loved him, I would have been able to say goodbye back then, but he just couldn't. In fact, in all relationships since then I always have been able to do that, and have survived even very messy ones emotionally intact. This has surprised many a partner. I am also fine alone, I do not need a partner for my emotional well-being. Another Cancer Sun/Aries Moon man I'm friends with is very similar in this regard as well; he actually became a monk, and has been celibate for decades. So there's a certain possibility your lover could share some of these characteristics.

I don't know whether these observations apply to your situation at all, mind you, but wanted to share how I perceived a somewhat similar experience from "the other side of the table". In the end, I guess I feel that someone who has this sort of an inner child as indicated by his Moon (and Venus) placement and aspects may not really be cut out for being a side-kick forever, and perhaps you can sense that subconsciously. He may be ok with his role for now BTW, but this could unexpectedly change. However, that doesn't mean you couldn't be friends forever should it not work out as lovers.
Just my 2 cents

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Ceridwen
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posted September 10, 2014 08:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Auby,

I understand what you are saying. or rather feel it. Deeply.
It reminds me of things with Mr Sag interestingly. Did I ever fathom I would find myself in this deep?
not.at.all.
I think it is only a few months that I even admitted to myself that there was an emotional/ romantic dimension attached to the whole strange thing.
I have been going on for years claiming there was no deeper emotional effect on me, just that it was some "weird instinctual response", which it is, don`t get me wrong. But in a way it was me deflecting that it could actually have anything to do with me as a person. To me it seemed more like an archaic program, a reflex (and you are not responsible for your reflexes, are you? they are not emotional; if someone hits this spot below your knee with a small hammer, your leg will go up. Can`t do anything about it. It`s a reflex. But because it is, it also is strangely devoid of meaning.) So certainly defensive deflective modus operandi on my part.

Someone actually asked me some days ago, how I am dealing with it on a daily basis. and I did not have a good answer, other than I just do. *shrugs*
It is what it is, and somehow along the way I simply stopped trying to put it into categories. Well our composite has Uranus as chartruler in Scorpio conjunct the MC by 4 degrees. Uranus does not like those categorizations I guess.
It is weird, I don´t think anyone REALLY can understand, and that most certainly includes him and me as well , but it just is.

The thing is I was letting go and running away and moving away and hiding and seeking elsewhere and denying and rationalizing and doing all these things that worked so neatly in the past as perfect defense-system.
But somehow, well i certainly do not understand any of it, but all this running away and denying and hiding away, it feels counter-effective. Wrong. And in fact proves to be hindering my growth.

You would think letting go of the whole thing would be the right thing. Rational mind sais so, just the moment I do, I feel pulled back into what I am not to become anymore.

For some reason I need him on my path for now.
How I have no clue. What role or whatever.
But I stopped racking my brain about it. It is what it is. And it will be what it will be.
For me personally the core of it presently (can change all the time) is the experience. And that is all I am to know right now. Hard to swallow for my mind, but there are things I am not meant to understand rationally at this moment, I just have to trust life itself and the flow.
This is quite a challenge for me. lol


I can only talk to you from this perspective as of now, and well, it seems like you aren´t as certain about your open marriage anymore, like you want something more traditional, committed, not with your husband, but with that man, who despite all your armour, managed to get under your skin and you can`t seem to shake him off. And it seems like the non-exclusive friends with benefits scenario just isn`t enough for you anymore.

does that make you selfish?
I don´t know.
I just think you are a feeling, wanting, needing... human being. Flesh and blood and a lot of heart. And that heart is calling the shots for now. May your mind curse about this all it wants.

"funny how the heart tells the mind what to do"


What to do about it?
If this is true, if you want him to be more than a fwb, I guess you`ll need to find out how he feels about it or if you don´t want to do that, you`ll have to learn to deal with all these feelings breaking through. Well you will have to learn allowing them to come to the surface anyway. No choice about that I guess.


Well it was to me at least.
I used to be baffled by feelings, as I felt I did not have a real access to mine, not knowing what I was feeling or if I was just making it up in my mind.
Now I know. Every damned single minute of the day. And it is exhausting for a Moon-Uranus-gal.

That`s the price I pay and the gift I receive from this kathartic Pluto having been and still being all over my Venus and pr ASC. lol

As for you, you can`t run away from your own heart. Not anymore. If you do, you will regress.

And yes, the risk is very real, your heart might be broken (or not). But at least you have a heart that can feel and care and love and need and desire with all that intensity.
Embrace it.


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KarmicMoon
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Posts: 435
From: Moon, Milky Way
Registered: Feb 2014

posted September 10, 2014 09:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for KarmicMoon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Stop analyzing it.

Live it. Feel it. Without fear.

Trust the universe is working it out in the best interest of everyone involved.

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Blind writer
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Posts: 285
From: Texas, USA
Registered: May 2012

posted September 10, 2014 01:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Blind writer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't know if you realize this, but you've always been the one ready to leave, even in your most volatile relationships. Now this situation arises wherein someone might leave you behind, and your Scorp energy is rearing its ugly head.

I'm on text if ya need me, m'dear.

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Aubyanne
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Posts: 186
From: The Multiverse
Registered: Sep 2014

posted September 10, 2014 03:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aubyanne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Vajra:
Good morning, Aubyanne.

If I may: I think the uneasiness you feel could stem from your Scorpio Moon's (latent?) prophetic abilities, which picks up on the possibility that he might in the end be able to walk away from this situation and move on much more easily, and much faster, than you can. Aries Moon may be the most emotionally self-sufficient Moon placement there is; it's very good at looking out for number one and has not much trouble making tough decisions under pressure (unlike e.g. Libra). Also, it's a naive and chivalrous Moon, and its natives really want to be the other's "first choice" - so, this is of course not the optimal placement for being "the other one" in an emotional/sexual triangle situation. It's not jealous or possessive though, more like, well, "competitive". The possibility of a sudden reversal in your relationship with him is of course also indicated by your comp. Uranus on the AC.

Let me explain. Very strangely, 20 years ago I was in a somewhat similar position as the man you're dealing with, and I actually do share his Sun, Moon and Venus placements. Back then, I got involved with a Scorpio Moon man seven years my senior who was in a long-term open relationship. The deal was that we could have some fun for some time, and I intended to keep it. What happened was that we both fell madly in love with each other, due to the incredible intimacy we developed. With THAT his partner was not ok. I tried to run away then repeatedly, in order to keep up my end of the bargain (chivalrous, as I said), but he just couldn't let us go. It was an unbelievably gut-wrenching situation that took its toll on all three of us healthwise. In the end, he broke up with her to be with me. We actually were together (monogamously, as none of us would have been able to handle those abandonment issues ever again) for 13 years before we finally drifted apart without outside interference, and today are still very good friends.

The thing is, even though I loved him, I would have been able to say goodbye back then, but he just couldn't. In fact, in all relationships since then I always have been able to do that, and have survived even very messy ones emotionally intact. This has surprised many a partner. I am also fine alone, I do not need a partner for my emotional well-being. Another Cancer Sun/Aries Moon man I'm friends with is very similar in this regard as well; he actually became a monk, and has been celibate for decades. So there's a certain possibility your lover could share some of these characteristics.

I don't know whether these observations apply to your situation at all, mind you, but wanted to share how I perceived a somewhat similar experience from "the other side of the table". In the end, I guess I feel that someone who has this sort of an inner child as indicated by his Moon (and Venus) placement and aspects may not really be cut out for being a side-kick forever, and perhaps you can sense that subconsciously. He may be ok with his role for now BTW, but this could unexpectedly change. However, that doesn't mean you couldn't be friends forever should it not work out as lovers.
Just my 2 cents


Thank you, Vajra, for your insight. It oddly, and ironically, helps to cement how different he truly is from other lunar Arien Cancerians. I've ever quite grasped that, despite being reminded of it so many times. Perhaps your story is 'yet another on the railroad spike' to reference Stephen King in a rather oblique fashion.

A bit of backstory.

His SUN square SATURN has had some interesting impact upon his general character. Emotionally self-sufficient? To the point of needing no one, or anything outside of himself. I get this -- I was once that way, too. But, over time, his growing intimacy with me has showed him where he's 'not perfect' -- which is a HUGE sticking point with him.

Of note: he'd been celibate 17 years prior to our relationship, and has never had a relationship -- until now, I suppose. (If that's what we have.) Oh, he can certainly be monkish. No doubt of that. But so can I -- with astonishing resilience.

The whole reason this began was never to 'have some fun'. We were ... broken. I couldn't combine intimacy with sexuality, and he couldn't bring himself to be either. Slowly, intimate; not sexual. We worked at it even when we didn't want to. Not because it was easy -- because it's been HARD.

That's honestly when -- and why -- it started. Not so much competition as being tired of being abnormal, or broken. Aries also doesn't like to owe itself to any hindrances or impediments. Or acknowledge them. He didn't want to be in denial anymore -- so the only option was fix it.

And that's what we set out to do. We've been insanely successful in that regard. What we've learnt is really phenomenal. There was that nagging voice in my head, though; I'd tell myself -- this is okay, because my emotions aren't involved. I mean, they're involved in the sense of he's a very good friend, and someone I trust -- and yes, love. But in that way you love and trust a very good friend. The sex was just compartmentalised and part of a greater paradigm to where it wasn't a threat -- if that makes sense.

At least, it hadn't been.

It's bizarre how the two series I've followed since 2012 have been eerily reminiscent of my life, and these two relationships. I mean, in an uncanny, never-in-a-million-years sort of fashion. And the latest one ... when there were whispers of its coming, it was almost like everything became very still. It was going to change my life. Things it brought to my attention, or forced me to dig out of myself (and my hard drive) were going to alter me forever.

And ... it has. All of it. (Our synastry, and composites with its premiere is rather flooring.) And now I just feel as if every episode is some kind of nail in a coffin of something. Our bad past? The negative karma? The pain? God only knows. I certainly don't.

Thing is, he's never been 'a sidekick'. He's never been 'second' of anything. He's just been him -- this irreconcilable force in my life and karmic history which must be dealt with. Something I've known since I was 19 years old -- God help me.

My husband and I've been through the 'what does THIS mean?' thing already, fortunately. HE's actually encouraged that I'm not completely incapable of intimacy, and this might even really work.

But I have to be strong enough to say that I've tried to be the person I always thought I was -- the logical, rational, detached one -- which got me through every relationship I've ever had, without perhaps truly ever connecting to it. And I can't do that anymore. Something about me has changed.

And I have to tell him that. And accept that I may lose him because of it. And I have to be okay with that.

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Aubyanne
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Posts: 186
From: The Multiverse
Registered: Sep 2014

posted September 10, 2014 03:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aubyanne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Blind writer:
I don't know if you realize this, but you've always been the one ready to leave, even in your most volatile relationships. Now this situation arises wherein someone might leave you behind, and your Scorp energy is rearing its ugly head.

I'm on text if ya need me, m'dear.


... I know. I do know that. I'm just avoiding ... everything. HIM leaving ... just shatters my soul. It calls into question this underlying thread that's been woven into my life for 15 years.

Maybe I need to write today. Rather than buoyed by this wonderful sense of weird 'closure' energy -- feeling in control and capable -- I'm feeling raw and terrified and completely OUT of control.

Because THAT's what he does to me. And, ohhh, I wanted that. I wanted, for ONCE, to feel what it's like to NOT be in control.

... Damn it all.

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Vajra
Knowflake

Posts: 169
From:
Registered: Dec 2012

posted September 10, 2014 03:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Vajra     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Aubyanne:
Thank you, Vajra, for your insight. It oddly, and ironically, helps to cement how different he truly is from other lunar Arien Cancerians.

Hmm…is he now? Doesn't quite sound like it from the way you describe him, but time will tell. By the way, my Scorp Moon ex hubby was quite "broken" as well, from a completely dysfunctional family. There were dark areas in his psyche so closely locked away that he couldn't access them any more, whole memories erased etc... I believe during our long years together, he managed to emotionally heal a little bit, and he certainly taught me a LOT. I am certain he will be with me as a companion as long as we both live. How's that about being with each other "forever"?

Regarding the process of finding out what it all means, I would rather recommend not to worry too much about him, or about the great framework of things. Just do what you feel it is you have to do in any situation, always do what you deep down know to be the right thing. When you always do your best according to your best knowledge, your mind can relax from worrying, you can remain centered and calm, and the rest will take care of itself. Sometimes we humans must live with a degree of uncertainty. We might as well try to enjoy it.

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Aubyanne
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Posts: 186
From: The Multiverse
Registered: Sep 2014

posted September 10, 2014 04:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aubyanne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Vajra:
Hmm…is he now? Doesn't quite sound like it from the way you describe him, but time will tell. By the way, my Scorp Moon ex hubby was quite "broken" as well, from a completely dysfunctional family. There were dark areas in his psyche so closely locked away that he couldn't access them any more, whole memories erased etc... I believe during our long years together, he managed to emotionally heal a little bit, and he certainly taught me a LOT. I am certain he will be with me as a companion as long as we both live. How's that about being with each other "forever"?

Regarding the process of finding out what it all means, I would rather recommend not to worry too much about him, or about the great framework of things. Just do what you feel it is you have to do in any situation, always do what you deep down know to be the right thing. When you always do your best according to your best knowledge, your mind can relax from worrying, you can remain centered and calm, and the rest will take care of itself. Sometimes we humans must live with a degree of uncertainty. We might as well try to enjoy it.


I suppose what I meant to say is that there's a dark wellspring beneath the surface that never gets scratched. It's a dangerous thing to do. My husband is convinced that he couldn't survive without me. Whether that's return to the 'safety' of the impenetrable shell, or far worse -- no one knows.

His natal is something of a powder-keg of which MARS holds the fuse; you might say a significant portion of my own natal lit it.

For all my Scorpio MOON, it's still conjunct URANUS 1º, and 3H. It's always hard to tell if my running is to avoid vulnerability or 'because it's the right thing'.

Do I honestly feel as if there's someone out there with whom he's supposed to spend the rest of his life in a traditional sense?

No. Never have.

Whatever the hell he's doing here, he's flying completely solo -- save for having to deal with me. That really is the most honest way to state it, too: deal with me. Deal with the reality-altering aspects of it all; the terrifyingly uncharted territory, the things undertaken NOW only because some kind of ticking clock started when we met -- and we could both feel it.

I honestly don't know how my 'patron saint' of this dimension of the timeline dealt with it. I know she died very unhappy, very confused, and wondering if she'd made mistakes in some of the most significant decisions of her life.

I can't start the trajectory that will lead me there, but this same bloody script keeps unfolding -- line upon line, scene after scene; the same damned thing. I almost feel as if I'm getting the chance to analyse it and evaluate it so closely, to see it from SO many perspectives so as to avoid it.

But avoid what is the question.

The latest episode had my heart racing. As if all I could think was -- ohhh, no. Don't go that way. THERE be dragons. I KNOW. I'm slaying them now -- or being burnt alive by them. Depending upon the day, or your view. But the series is following its own amalgam of a script. It just happens to be hitting WAY too close to MY reality, and feels like a giant cosmic neon sign going, 'LOOK AT THIS.' Because I've BEEN there in a certain respect. I feel as if I'm stuck in some ... frame between frames; some loop, like a recurring nightmare. The same thing -- over and over and over.

And I'm just ... bewildered.

I can stop it, look closely at it -- interject myself -- and ask. 'WHY are you doing this? Why are YOU? ... Why are you letting him?' As if I have a different perspective now; I'm behind the scenes. I know what's on the cutting room floor.

(This is not metaphor; this is how it all works for me, somehow. Very likely why I became a creative.)

I can see the denial; see the train-wreck unfold. Watch the strange resignation. Following the script.

Why?

'Because that's the way it is.' That's the way it WAS. And what the hell purpose did it serve except to saddle me with this unconscious instinct to be so damned beholden to the desires of men while disowning my emotions in the process. To what -- survive? Probably. Likely. I couldn't relinquish the power I had over them? I had to face the one who I DIDN'T? Who COULD betray me?

What the hell did that bloody serve? What did I learn? It's not safe to love? Sex will destroy you? Both figuratively -- AND literally? It's the enemy? You can never lose control because then it's The End?

And he's NOT doing that now. Not in any way, shape, or form. It would be innocent enough. But the same damned thing. I could never be X because I'm Y. (Fill in the blank.)

Honestly. I've gone through a veritable kaleidoscope of scenarios and potential versions and combinations. This is just another one in the long string.

And a part of me says, ' and it'll never change, because THAT's the way it is. That's the sequence of events. You're always Y and he's always X, and Z is ALWAYS the result.'

I didn't just ... leave. I never just said, 'no. I'm not doing this. You're going to destroy me / ruin me / kill me. I WON'T open THAT door, because I will die.'

I'm sick of the many ways in which this man has destroyed me. I'd like, FOR ONCE, to just trust, and let it be OKAY. For it to be OKAY. FOR ONCE.

I swear, the reason why we slept together at all that night was to unconsciously prove to each other that it wouldn't destroy us. The world wouldn't end. Nobody would die. It would be OKAY.

I'm hoping it's not just a case of 'Apocalypse Delayed', because I'm really, really getting tired of this.

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Keela
Knowflake

Posts: 600
From:
Registered: Oct 2012

posted September 10, 2014 04:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Keela     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Aubyanne:
And, inevitably, catastrophising. The anxiety IS clouding everything for me. I'll think I'm getting 'signs' that I'm holding him back; that I SHOULD be the one to help him reconnect with himself, especially his sexuality -- to be capable of real intimacy -- so that he can be the product of true growth, by finding 'the right one' and settling down.

But what if I'm just being possessive? What if I'm falling into the same trap all over again? Aren't I supposed to be letting go?

Aren't I, being 'so evolved' and all, supposed to be able to help him to heal so that he CAN go and be with someone? WHY can't I just bloody do that? Why am I not strong enough?

I don't get it. Am I letting us down by being unable to let him go (because I did NOT anticipate on all of THIS when it was starting out) or by not fighting for it? By not blazing some insane trail, and saying that ...


I have it on good authority the word is "Chill". To be honest, don't know what your problem is, other than your fretting or overanalyzing instead of letting things happen since they apparently or evidently still very much so are happening.

You're worrying about something that might happen, but don't allow for the fact that by whenever something like his possibly finding someone else might happen, you might be perfectly ready for that as well, by then. Or not, but in any case, doesn't seem as if anything such was going to happen as of tomorrow, or even the next couple of weeks which seems to be your fretting timeframe here.

If he's that much older than you and thinks there isn't anybody "suitable" enough for him otherwise, then he's presumably old enough to deal with that at his end then, whatever the future events. If you decide that oh, you'll play "unselfish" and decide for him, since he's not capable of knowing what's best for him, whatever your role in helping him open up on more levels so far, that's you trying to dictate things for another person. And as far as people can see, trying to dictate things for him based on your being too chicken to get involved with him as per how things otherwise seem to be going. And how pissy is that of you? So yes, very melodramatic, over your seeming to cling to the pier howling like a 5-year-old afraid to go in the water, despite it not going to kill her.

Do your end and let him take care of his end on his own, or as per however things work out between you if things are progressing in any case. I also don't see why he couldn't find someone at the age of 55 as well if talking wives or more, so... you're fretting over having to stubbornly and faux-"selflessly" (oh how noble of you? Woe our suffering after you decide what's best for him?) push him to find one now instead of maybe having a nice 5 years first with him and then things moving on to other levels and happening organically? Five years of something, then 5-10 years of another thing, and so on and so forth, for a lifetime of something. Pardon the bluntness, but as said, I'm not seeing what the problem is, other than your fear of letting things just happen however they will. Control freaking doesn't help.

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Aubyanne
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Posts: 186
From: The Multiverse
Registered: Sep 2014

posted September 10, 2014 05:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aubyanne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Keela:
So yes, very melodramatic, over your seeming to cling to the pier howling like a 5-year-old afraid to go in the water, despite it not going to kill her.

Normally, yes. But compound that with the 5 year old's memories of drowning. The helplessness. The sense of betrayal. Happy faces from the pier until the sudden realisation -- something's wrong. She took the chance, because she HAD to. Be a big girl. Tough it out. But, deep down, she knew -- something was wrong.

She can't blame their not knowing, but she CAN blame herself for putting herself in harm's way -- despite every indication to the contrary.

... Jesus, I feel sick.

tSUN conjunct nATROPOS. tMOON/URA opposite nSUN. tSATURN is still opposite my nCHIRON.

... Yeah, okay. So. tSUN conjunct nATROPOS.

Ladies and gentlemen ... The Inevitable!

... Where the hell is tKARMA?

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Blind writer
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Posts: 285
From: Texas, USA
Registered: May 2012

posted September 10, 2014 05:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Blind writer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Aubyanne:
... Damn it all.

Welcome to my world since '96. Wield that Scorp MERCURY like nobody's business, and transform it into something productive.

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Keela
Knowflake

Posts: 600
From:
Registered: Oct 2012

posted September 10, 2014 05:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Keela     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It's still the 5-year-old's feelings and not the relevant reality. If something happens, then it happens. The 5-year-old may not have enough strength to deal against an ocean, but if you've already gone in as per your indication, then you're in then. Swimming happens, diving is fascinating to some, and floating on waves is lovely. Not every gulp of water leads to drowning, not every 5-year-old is alone in the water despite feeling like they were, and some of them swim just fine. Not every story always ends in disaster, death, catastrophy and woes. Write a better ending if you need one. Trust has been mentioned several times in the thread already. Consider it floating.

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