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Author
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Topic: Long-term couples study- ATTN: Lotis White et al
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Sabina79
Knowflake Posts: 93
From:
Registered: Dec 2013
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posted September 16, 2014 02:57 PM
  
I'd like to begin this particular thread (which, yes, has been done before) by establishing certain rules, if I may, for the sake of this study.
1. The couples need to have been together for AT LEAST 15 years. This more than covers the first Saturn return (retrograde or not) or "seven-year itch."
2. The couples do NOT have to be famous. 3. Birth times are not necessary though they do, of course, add dimension.
4. The couples do NOT have to be married. Marriage is not the ultimate state of a relationship for everyone, and non-marriage unions can last a lifetime.
5. The couples can be ANY sexual orientation.
6. ***I would like us to focus on ONE couple at a time until the matter is essentially exhausted. The thread would become far too chaotic otherwise.
7. While asteroids can add to synastry, they cannot by themselves keep two people together (assuming anything astrological can). So while we can certainly examine them, please don't forget about planets, Chiron, houses, Vx, nodes, declination, etc.
8. What to look for? Anything, really, including patterns of unilateral or bilateral attraction, commitment aspects, etc. If anyone else has a rule they think should apply, please speak up!  IP: Logged |
Ceridwen
Knowflake Posts: 29974
From:
Registered: Jul 2011
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posted September 16, 2014 03:07 PM
No 15 degree orbs! 
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Sabina79
Knowflake Posts: 93
From:
Registered: Dec 2013
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posted September 16, 2014 03:09 PM
LOL. Right you are. Okay, Ceridwen, so how should we measure orbs? Should the Moon be given more latitude? IP: Logged |
Selene
Knowflake Posts: 1431
From:
Registered: Apr 2013
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posted September 16, 2014 03:19 PM
I can post a chart of my grandparents of about 50 years marriage till their consequent death (grandfather couldn't live without her) if necessary. IP: Logged |
Selene
Knowflake Posts: 1431
From:
Registered: Apr 2013
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posted September 16, 2014 03:22 PM
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Vajra
Knowflake Posts: 1738
From:
Registered: Dec 2012
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posted September 16, 2014 03:38 PM
editIP: Logged |
Sabina79
Knowflake Posts: 93
From:
Registered: Dec 2013
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posted September 16, 2014 03:43 PM
For each couple, I intend to include the first eight "objects" listed in the astro.com category box. I apologize for the resulting mess LOL, but I know there are some who need to visualize these things (myself included). I have collected a great deal of data over the years, so I will pick the couples at random unless someone has a request. Requests are welcome! Let's start with Lea Thompson and Howard Deutch. The two fell in love on the set of "Some Kind of Wonderful" (1987) and married in 1989. Time together: 27 years.
*No birth time for Howard. I found I cannot post declination (Adobe format). I have posted the geo natals for both, geo synastry, and geo Composite.    
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KarkaQueen
Knowflake Posts: 6446
From: LURKING
Registered: May 2011
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posted September 16, 2014 03:45 PM
Lol 15 years, damn.. that's my whole life. 
I'll add my parents synastry/composite when I get home. IP: Logged |
Sabina79
Knowflake Posts: 93
From:
Registered: Dec 2013
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posted September 16, 2014 03:47 PM
Sorry, Selene. I didn't see your posts until after I had posted mine. We can start with yours. Can you please repost that chart after selecting "aspects lines to all" so I can see the aspects from nodes, Chiron, etc. Thank you! In future, Everyone, please don't starting randomly posting synastry charts. As I said, I want to focus on ONE couple at a time. If you want to add a couple, please give me the background, birth stats, etc., and I will post multiple charts for that couple in the order I receive them (and after the synastry has been thoroughly discussed for each). Thank you! IP: Logged |
Selene
Knowflake Posts: 1431
From:
Registered: Apr 2013
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posted September 16, 2014 03:51 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Sabina79:
Sorry, Selene. I didn't see your posts until after I had posted mine. We can start with yours. Can you please repost that chart after selecting "aspects lines to all" so I can see the aspects from nodes, Chiron, etc. Thank you! In future, Everyone, please don't starting randomly posting synastry charts. As I said, I want to focus on ONE couple at a time. If you want to add a couple, please give me the background, birth stats, etc., and I will post multiple charts for that couple in the order I receive them (and after the synastry has been thoroughly discussed for each). Thank you!
Sorry, i didn't know these rules yet. So lets see your posted couple at first. IP: Logged |
hypatia238
Moderator Posts: 5264
From: Colorado
Registered: Sep 2014
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posted September 16, 2014 04:13 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Ceridwen:
No 15 degree orbs!
LMAO! Cool thread idea. IP: Logged |
Astro keen
Knowflake Posts: 5673
From: UK
Registered: Nov 2012
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posted September 16, 2014 04:20 PM
Just an observation:If you are going to be looking at charts, even if 1 couple at a time, shouldn't there be a checklist of sorts so you know what to look for? For example, which aspects do you suspect will be common to these long timers. In other words, how do you propose to extrapolate common features? IP: Logged |
Aubyanne
Moderator Posts: 6667
From: Tinseltown, Hollyweird, The Multiverse
Registered: Sep 2014
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posted September 16, 2014 05:29 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Ceridwen:
No 15 degree orbs!
I need something more than a '  ' for this. Like, 'shout from the rooftops'. IP: Logged |
Sabina79
Knowflake Posts: 93
From:
Registered: Dec 2013
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posted September 16, 2014 05:34 PM
That's okay, Selene. I will do your grandparents next though, so what are their stats? Astro keen, hello! That is a good question. Were this a typical science experiment, I would attempt to prove a hypothesis (i.e. there will always be strong Saturn links). However, I have found that when it comes to astrology, it is less about aspects in synastry than about the needs of the individuals (which vary considerably). The intention here is to show a wide range of synastry charts and see if there are any patterns. Online sites often claim to have already done the same with conflicting results. Others tell/show you only what they want you to see in order to make a point. So I thought it would be fun and educational for new and seasoned astrological students to do some digging and see what we find.
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Sabina79
Knowflake Posts: 93
From:
Registered: Dec 2013
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posted September 16, 2014 05:51 PM
At first glance, without looking at the individual charts for the moment, and using tight orbs [Ceridwen, LOL], I see: his Venus conjunct her Pluto (her 11th house); his Jupiter conjunct her s. node (in her 5th), his Neptune/Juno conjunct her ASC, her Mercury conj his Neptune (helio), and her Chiron conj his Jupiter (helio).Lea has a Moon in Capricorn. As a Capricorn, I do believe we tend to do better with partners who are younger or older (by a number of years). In her case, Howard is about 11 years her senior, so that fulfills one need. Regarding houses (remember, we don't know his!), her ASC ruler (Venus) doesn't SEEM to feature that prominently in the geo or helio synastry. Her 4th house ruler is Saturn which likely amplifies the above need. Her 7th house ruler (Mars) conjuncts his Pluto (significant?) and trines his Chiron. Anyone else? Any aspects considered "soulmatey", "karmic" or, on the flip side, "a deal killer?" IP: Logged |
mir
Knowflake Posts: 2550
From:
Registered: May 2009
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posted September 16, 2014 06:11 PM
Great idea! I like structure ;D Well, I will join in with my true passion; the PROGRESSIONS! Focusing basically on TRINE/SQUARE/CONJUNCTION/OPPOSITION, BETWEEN; Venus/Mars – Sun/Venus – Venus/Venus (and possibly or if-necessary the Moon + angles) Usually THE-ones ^ that are highly prone to *start* a relationship AND also to *keep* things going/alive through the passing of time….
(I'll try to keep it simple)
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Lotis White
Moderator Posts: 2229
From: USA
Registered: Dec 2010
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posted September 16, 2014 06:33 PM
My first observation is that Howard and Lea have some pretty weak natal chart to natal chart synastry. There are some house connections but I'll go over those later. My second observation is that they do have a rather compelling composite which makes up for it. In composite they have an exact Sun/Uranus conjunction at 0 degrees Leo, and it's trine their composite Moon at 28 Scorpio (it's out of sign but very close). The Moon is also conjunct Saturn in Scorpio by 3 degrees for longevity. Their composite has a Venus/Mars square by about 2 degrees also. Venus is almost 1 degree of Cancer, and Mars is at 3 degrees Libra. So these two have some rather strong yin yang connections via the composite. These are missing in the natal synastry. They also have a rather fun looking Jupiter/Mercury opposition about 3 degrees wide, and an intense Pluto square Moon aspect about 2 degees wide. IP: Logged |
Sabina79
Knowflake Posts: 93
From:
Registered: Dec 2013
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posted September 16, 2014 08:23 PM
mir, thank you for doing the progressions! I admit that while I know they are important, they simply don't interest me (nor do transits), and we obviously need to examine them. Thank you, thank you. Lotis White: That was the first thing I noticed as well... the general lack of synastry with respect to this kind of relationship. It could be that his houses, if known, would explain things a bit more, but to what extent? In terms of the Composite, I agree. However (and I know you know this already), this does not indicate how the individuals act/react with each other. I am a bit stumped by this union. I have not looked at the "Marks" charts or whatever the equivalent would be when comparing natals to the Composite. Assuming these are legitimate techniques, something might be found. I'll give it a go. IP: Logged |
Astro keen
Knowflake Posts: 5673
From: UK
Registered: Nov 2012
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posted September 16, 2014 08:43 PM
Sabina,I'm afraid you've got some visually challenged people looking in (ME!). My eyes can see OK but they get nauseous when trying to decipher aspects embedded in prose. Please, everyone, could you list aspects separately. Like this, for example: his Jupiter conjunct her s. node
his Neptune/Juno conjunct her ASC
her Mercury conj his Neptune (helio)
her Chiron conj his Jupiter No more criticisms after this . ps. looking forward to this investigation IP: Logged |
Sabina79
Knowflake Posts: 93
From:
Registered: Dec 2013
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posted September 16, 2014 09:50 PM
Gotcha, Astro keen Saturn:
1. Geo-wise: Her 4th house Saturn sextiles/trines his nodes, serving as an outlet for the tension of the opposition? It may square his Moon as well.
2. His own Saturn conjuncts his Sun but doesn't make any major contacts to her chart.
3. Helio-wise, their Saturns trine, and her Jupiter-Saturn conjunction squares his Juno-Eros conjunction. Does any of this seem major? Declination (1 deg orb):
GEO:
His Sun CP her Chiron;
Her Sun/Mercury P his Pluto;
Her Moon P his Venus (his moon is unknown) His Venus P her n. node;
His Mars P her Jupiter/Saturn;
Her Mars CP his Chiron;
Her Juno P his s. node;
His Pluto P her MC.
HELIO:
Her Venus P his Mars;
Her Chiron CP his Saturn. Configurations:
GEO SYN:
Magic Rectangle (Venus-Pluto conjunct, her Mercury, his Jupiter, and her Moon). COMP:
Boat (Sun-Uranus conj, Chiron, Moon-Saturn conj, Mars.
GEO DAV:
T-square (Venus, DSC/Mars/Saturn, Jupiter/Pluto);
T-square (Moon, Mars/Saturn, Jupiter/Pluto)
Magic Rectangle (Moon, Sun/Chiron, Mars/Saturn, and Uranus). IP: Logged |
KarkaQueen
Knowflake Posts: 6446
From: LURKING
Registered: May 2011
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posted September 17, 2014 02:43 AM
Here are my mother and father's chart. They have been together for 15+ years.edit IP: Logged |
Selene
Knowflake Posts: 1431
From:
Registered: Apr 2013
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posted September 17, 2014 04:43 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Sabina79:
That's okay, Selene. I will do your grandparents next though, so what are their stats?
Thanks Please don't quote and don't post their birth info visible in charts, i will edit it out later.
Grandmother 14 april 1930, 8.25 AM, V i l n i u s LT
Grandfather 12 october 1925, 11.15 am, V i l n i u s LT
Basically - they were together for more than 50 years (not sure about the actual marriage years, but about same time +/-), they were quite in love as i remember, my opinion on what love should be like, formed based on these two. They were jokingly fighting all the time - not angrily, but to make it all more fun. When she got ill and paralysed, he was the one who did everything for her, and when she died in a half a year, he didn't see the reason to live anymore and died consequently after 3 months. They had 5 children (first one died early). Birth times are approximate (might be 10-20 minutes difference, however charts were rectified by an astrologer).
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LeeLoo2014
Knowflake Posts: 18295
From: Venus cornering Neptune
Registered: Mar 2014
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posted September 17, 2014 08:54 AM
Great idea of a thread, Sabina! I'm very interested in the thread. I specifically like the idea of people posting real-life long-term synastries of their family, friends, etc. Long-term synastries is my major field study. However, this visual format makes it very difficult to identify the core of the synastry: the aspects between the 10 planets. It gives a lot of errors, at least for my eyes: for example, one can hardly see if one or more planets are unaspected in synastry. You need to eliminate all aspects to Chiron, angles etc in order to notice that. Which takes a long time and it's very straining for the eyes. Plus, personally, I work with geometrical patterns in natal and synastry and the major pattern cannot be seen in order to verify if the other completes it and if they are each other's type. For example, the guy has Mars square Pluto, the gal has Venus trine Pluto, a major Yin/Yang pair. One needs to decant the mesh of aspects in order to see that. In my experience with many charts, each synastry is basically the major pattern: for example they have Sun opp Moon, Mars conjunct Venus, Mercury/Pluto DW. This is the synastry. This theme will be repeated in all their other charts, asteroids and Chiron will not change that, only add a certain flavor to the planetary aspects: for example, we discover Mars conjunct Venus is also conjunct Lilith, which gives a Lilith flavor to this conjunction.
So I have a request for those posting the charts here: could you add an extra synastry wheel without "aspect lines to all" and no orb modification, for those of us who use this method and are interested in the major players? (I know I'm not the only one). Thanks! 
Perhaps I can handle a meshed composite, but a synastry....no way! lol I have a considerable database of real-life long-term synastries (relatives, friends, acquaintances, my specific research etc) and I will share the most outstanding examples with you. ------------------
I seem to have loved you in numberless forms... IP: Logged |
Vajra
Knowflake Posts: 1738
From:
Registered: Dec 2012
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posted September 17, 2014 09:03 AM
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LeeLoo2014
Knowflake Posts: 18295
From: Venus cornering Neptune
Registered: Mar 2014
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posted September 17, 2014 09:47 AM
Regarding Lea/Howard Deutch,( I added them to my database) I agree with Lotis, they have a compelling composite, with a classical Cross/Kite formation.However, the synastry is not at all weak, apart from an interesting case of unaspected Sun/Saturn. It looks like the Mystic Rctangle formed by his Sun/Saturn, her MC/IC and her Juno really worked in this case.
Apart from this glitch, they have a pretty strong synastry:
Direct and mixed Sun/Venus Moon/Venus DW. Moon/Venus is a potent marital opposition and combined with Sun square Venus, Moon trine Venus it makes for a potent combo. (Although we don't know his Moon, but opp accept wider orbs anyway) A mixed Venus/Pluto, Mars/Lilith/Pluto conjunction DW A lovely Mystic Rectangle involving 6 major players and with nodal involvement.
Moon square Saturn (possibly) combined with Moon sextile Jupiter is a nice combo, balancing restriction with expansion, seriousness with fun.
At least two major Yods with love planets. Major Juno and Ceres contacts: his Juno/Neptune right on her ASC, showing he sees her as an ideal partner, and with Juno/Neptune he does have an ideal. Her Juno opp his Sun trines his Mars. Mixed Sun/Jupiter Moon/Jupiter DW. Good Mercury aspects, out of which Mercury/Venus DW. Nodes on Virgo/Pisces axis, his Node falling in her 6th and she has a Virgo node.
His Moon, Neptune, Juno in her 1st, which is her sec 7th
His Mars in her 2nd - great placement for a marital Mars, long term sensuality, working on mutual goals etc. Also her secondary 8th.
His Jupiter in her 5th. (how many children they have? lol)
Vesta/Lilith in her 8th.
Uranus in her 9th, great for intellectual expansion and traveling, she has a 3rd house Sag.
Pluto in her 10th, and she is a Cap IC and Moon, natal Moon Pluto trine. Venus in her 11th, her secondary 5th - a great placement by all means. His Sun/Saturn/Mercury in her 12th is a bit off from her chart, but maybe it goes well with her Pisces Juno and her 1st house Neptune and her Mars square Neptune. Not completely off then. Not the perfect Sun for her chart, but what about her Moon in Cap opp Mercury going very well with his Sun/Saturn/Mercury stellium, in Virgo?
And I suspect she feels his Sun/Saturn mostly in her 11th, which is her secondary 5th. So great overlays from his side, I'm sure it must be mutual. Her 5th ruler conjunct his Pluto square his Mars. Her second 5th ruler square his Moon (maybe) and trines his Mercury, his Sun disp.
Her 7th ruler sextiles his Neptune, I suspect it must be an important ruler for him as well. Also conjuncts his Pluto, a valid aspect due to Venus/Pluto exact. She has Mars square Neptune in her chart, so an aspect from her Mars to her partner's Neptune is important for her.
Her 8th ruler Venus opp his Moon, potentially, a compelling opp. As you can see, their natals have quite a number of siamese and Yin/Yang pairs such as Moon in Cap, Sun conjunct Saturn, Moon opp Mercury, Sun/Merc in Virgo, Mars square Neptune, Juno conjunct Neptune; Mars conjunct Lilith, Mars opp Lilith; Moon trine Pluto, Sun semisextile Pluto; Mars opp Vest, Vesta/Ceres in the 7th; Venus/Jupiter, Mars/Jupiter etc.
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