posted October 01, 2014 07:03 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by VestaFlake:
Hey everyone,
I was experimenting with my and my boyfriend's charts and then I decided that the PDF version of our synastry was way too crowded. So I decreased orbs by half. And when I looked at what I got 'Now, that's how we are'. The overall table was precise and neat I liked it.
Still, I lost many important aspects.

What's your opinion?

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I regularly decrease to 30%, 50%, and 70% so I can more easily see the strongest/closest aspects, but I also look at the 100% table too.

posted October 01, 2014 08:49 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by VestaFlake:
Hey everyone,
I was experimenting with my and my boyfriend's charts and then I decided that the PDF version of our synastry was way too crowded. So I decreased orbs by half. And when I looked at what I got 'Now, that's how we are'. The overall table was precise and neat I liked it.
Still, I lost many important aspects.

What's your opinion?

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posted October 01, 2014 09:13 PM            

Why a "no"?

Suppose you have a Venus/Mars opp (2) and a Venus/Mars trine (6) - the trine will not be listed; you will miss your DW.

or

Suppose you have a 2 deg quincunx and a 0 deg quncunx between the same three planets: the 2 deg quincunx will no longer be listed with this orb reduction; you would miss your Yod.

or

suppose you have a midpoint structure involving an "intermediary" planet...for example you have Venus 7 Scorpio Mars 15 Scorpio, he has Moon 11 Pisces or Moon 11 Taurus plus you have your own Moon on his Moon/Mars mdp with Moon and Mars 10 deg apart, and the midpoint falls on 12 or 13 Cancer. You would miss the whole triangle/mystic rectangle.

posted October 02, 2014 04:18 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
T

Suppose you have a Venus/Mars opp (2) and a Venus/Mars trine (6) - the trine will not be listed; you will miss your DW.

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the question is do you still have a DW? Or if you do, how strong will it be?

Aspects are phasing out slowly, so it is sometimes difficult to say when an aspect becomes so subtle it really is not that strong and noteable anymore.

While I focus on the tightest aspects, I also focus on geometry. I jsut think if the geometry needs orbs of 8 or 9 degrees to be still there, it will not be not as much in the foreground as one with tighter orbs. Another reason for that is, that it is very unlikely that this wide spread planetary geometry also results in midpoint pictures,w hich need tight orbs to be valid.

Aditionally I also focus on aspects, where at least one planet is conjunct an angle, as these tend to take centre stage and are ripe for manifestation - and do not forget the progressions.

posted October 02, 2014 08:43 AM            

However, I have the reverse question: for those who do this, why do you consider 3 deg orbs? Why not 2, or 5, or 6? Or better 1, for the actual aspect? What are the arguments?

Number 10 makes sense for its connection with the zodiacal circle and the decanate, among other things. I'm not saying I use 10 deg orbs, but this limit is in accordance with circle geometry and the Zodiac. Actually, most average orbs in charts are 5 - and it makes perfect sense because is a fair division of the circle. 3 it's not even a division of the circle.

The orbs for aspects are established according to the phase between aspects. That's why the orbs differ for each aspect. There is the aspect, a neutral phase between the aspects, then the next aspect. Considering a neutral phase wider than 5 deg. makes you consider more than half of the circle neutral, it leads to ignoring 3 parts of the circle - I see no reason for that.
For example, I see no reason for the neutral phase between the sextile and the quintile to be wider than 5.

So what are your mathematical/astronomical/astrological arguments for using
the same orb for all aspects?
a 3 deg orb?

and why don't you use 1, in this case?

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posted October 02, 2014 10:44 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
However, I have the reverse question: for those who do this, why do you consider 3 deg orbs? Why not 2, or 5, or 6? Or better 1, for the actual aspect? What are the arguments?

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posted October 02, 2014 11:09 AM            

What is the qualitative difference (or is there one?) between an exact aspect, e.g. a conjunction at, say, Sag 27.01 and Sag 27.58, and one that is actually closer, but falls on adjacent degrees, say Sag 26.49 and Sag 27.05.

The Sabians will be different; what else, if anything, is different? Which is really "tighter"?

posted October 02, 2014 11:54 AM            

(1) Observing the fullmoon or newmoon, she is considered full or new for about 24 hours; that translates to a 6 degree orb applying and separating, which is my guideline actually.

(2) about the 3 degree orb, which to me represents the "inner orb"

a) transits trigger events or aspects with an orb of 1 degree, maybe 1,5° (I know it is not a popular thing to say, and yes, they fade into and out, marking a certain athmosphere of time, but the actual triggering happens at that orb: Bernadette Brady actually sais the valid orb for a transit is 12 minutes. not sure why though)

b) midpoint pictures have an orb of one to one and a half degree orb (maybe expanding to 2 degrees with luminaries). The aspect figures are always (if symmetrical) also resulting into midpoint picture. Like in a Grand trine one planet will be on the far midpoint of the other ones. However that will ONLY be true if the orbs are either tight, or if one planet acts as bridge to the other ones.

Example

Venus 6 Capricorn
Mars 2 Taurus
Pluto 10 Virgo

On its own I would not count the Mars-Pluto-trine, bt since Venus is on the Mars/Pluto-mp AND trine both, they have stll *some* relation to each other. Nevertheless the emphasis would be on Venus here, she is the agent bringing the other two into contact, and the Mars-Pluto-aspect will always have a Venus-taste.

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Obviously that is just my thinking and reasoning, noone has to do it the way I do. Just be prepared that I am not going to "buy" any other orbs.

6 degree for the outer range
3 degrees, (or better even 2 degrees) for the inner circle, the burning focus in a synastry
(and if you should have a planetary geometry within 3 degrees each aspect, boy, you REALLY have a hot stove of focus then!)

Personally I also think that we tend to go for the aspects we like to see even if they are not in the centre, and ignore those we do not want to see or understand.
Usually some years down the line of a relationship the truth will show.
And I have yet to see a synastry where the widish, unrelated and isolated aspects, swimming somewhere along, trump the tight ones which are part of planetary geometry AND involving at least an angle.

The only cases I have seen really wide aspects being uncharacteristically strong, was when they were brought into close orb by progresson, then however they can REALLY sizzle and burn.

posted October 02, 2014 12:23 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Personally I also think that we tend to go for the aspects we like to see even if they are not in the centre, and ignore those we do not want to see or understand.
Usually some years down the line of a relationship the truth will show.
And I have yet to see a synastry where the widish, unrelated and isolated aspects, swimming somewhere along, trump the tight ones which are part of planetary geometry AND involving at least an angle.

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this is the crux of it right here. tight orbs keep your concentration on what really matters when you're looking at the partner chart.

posted October 02, 2014 12:23 PM            

I suppose the 12 min orb for progressions is intended to "catch" the closest time frame for the event?

The only cases I have seen really wide aspects being uncharacteristically strong, was when they were brought into close orb by progresson, then however they can REALLY sizzle and burn.

my opinion too... plus the "bridge" geometry
they are more like latent structures, unless a complicated geometry and with the exception of DW, when it's more about mutually shared energy, always active IMO when it has this chance (meaning a Sun conj Moon in Libra (2) coupled with a Moon in Cap Sun in Taurus will always take advantage of this occurence and activate the exchange, feel the mutual connection, even if Cap/Taurus is only a trine by sign; but interestingly enough, when this happens, the chance for a DW. they usually are in aspect)

Another important issue of wider orbs I'm working on: the better positioning of a wider orb( for catching multiple aspects, for a certain composite structure otherwise not happening, if it were tighter etc.) I admit that to me at this point symbolism kind of trumps mathematics after some extent.

posted October 02, 2014 12:26 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by starmoon:
this is the crux of it right here. tight orbs keep your concentration on what really matters when you're looking at the partner chart.

a 6 degree trine won't hold a relationship together, it won't really come into play for quite some time into the relationship, or be felt as much as a 2, or even 3, degree opposition. i think people like to think they feel (synastry) aspects at 4, 5, and 6, because it provides some beacon of hope for romance, but those aspects are just too wide imo. natal orbs are a different story. anything over 3 is like an asteroid in synastry, a supporting player but not the main role.

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However, wider orbs may be like a second layer of the relationship, coming into play later: short relationships have very tight aspects; fewer, but tight...like... spot on. Long complex relationships have important geometry including tight and wider orbs.

posted October 03, 2014 01:03 PM            

The bigger the planet the wider the orb can be felt.

At least this is my current working theory. It could change the more I learn.

But I do agree that if there are more aspects to a planet, then there is more activation and dynamics. So probably a good idea to at least see what they are doing.

posted October 03, 2014 08:40 PM            

Orbs less than 3° are the ones you feel all the time. They're always "on"

The ones between 3° and 6° need help to make their presence felt, like another planet making aspect to both, or a transit bridging the gap.

posted October 04, 2014 03:23 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by LucieLemonade:
I'm thinking.....

The bigger the planet the wider the orb can be felt.

At least this is my current working theory. It could change the more I learn.

But I do agree that if there are more aspects to a planet, then there is more activation and dynamics. So probably a good idea to at least see what they are doing.

I like use the graphic and the PDF chart to see the interactions then check the orbs.

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posted October 04, 2014 03:32 PM            

My 0.99 cents