posted October 28, 2014 03:06 PM            

So. How does TISIPHONE (466) operate in synastry?

First, we must understand her natal influence and determine a temporal marker. For that, we need to observe all Tropical natal conjunctions, squares, and oppositions.

Keep orbs to 3°30 or less.

Is she presently active? (TISIPHONE conjunct luminaries, personal points, and potentially angular.)

If so, take note of house, aspects, and houses connected by rulership.

NOTE: Are any 4H or 10H with conjunctions or hard aspects to IC or MC? How about 3H?

When TISIPHONE is active in a Tropical natal involving familial houses (and points, such as MOON or SATURN), she is the 'avenger of crimes against kin' first and foremost. This is a good time to also bring in those asteroids often seen in connexion to incidents of domestic abuse: incest, family violence, homicide within one's own bloodline: fratricide, mariticide, infanticide, patricide, etc.

Some of those are -- but certainly not limited to:

SEDNA
OPHELIA (171)
PHILOMELA (196)

As well as whether

CHILD (4580)

is configured with

DEJANIRA (157)
PREY (6157)

or NESSUS.

If not, you can assume that she is operating outside of a family dynamic. Ask yourself the following questions.

• Do I regularly feel the need to seek vengeance for crimes done to others?

• Have I always been this way?

• For what crimes will I especially not stand?

• How do I react when one close to me has been wronged?

• What is my personal stance on vigilante justice?

IMPORTANT NOTE: TISIPHONE can be active in a natal without a direct hard aspect.

IF THE ABOVE APPLIES TO YOU, BUT YOU HAVE NO HARD NATAL ASPECTS:

We must look for PREVIOUS involvement and activity.

This is where many of you may drop off, as we're about to talk karma. While it mustn't involve the multiple incarnations of past lives explanation, it DOES indicate that the roots for this behaviour originated outside of the present.

If you've never worked with the Draconic system, now is a good time to take a break and study a few of the basics before continuing.

ADVANCED ASTROLOGY AHEAD.

Like many, I've found a staggering relationship between the Draco chart and the Tropical. When examining a point like TISIPHONE, many questions can quickly be answered in one simple step:

Is nTISIPHONE conjunct any Draco points? If she is 6° conjunct the drMOON, drSUN or drASC, make note. While this is not a legitimate conjunction, it is a clear relationship and denotes a high likelihood of significant Midpoint involvement.

Now. Is nTISIPHONE also conjunct another Draco asteroid, within 3° orb?

If so, this is a Tisiphone Karma. You have an active present TISIPHONE whose roots and origins lie within the past. It becomes essential to examine the relationship of the asteroid(s) conjunct nTISIPHONE in the Draco, and to evaluate drTISIPHONE for involvement with the Tropical natal.

We'll look at that next, as it will fill in crucial details to the unfolding story.

posted October 28, 2014 03:44 PM            

And I love clear instructions.

my TISIPHONE 23 Cancer in 8th house
conjunct DESTINN on 23 Cancer in 8th exact
conjunct EROS-VX on 21 Cancer
opp. Sun/moon-mp on 21 Capricorn

a little more widely
square Chiron-PHOINIX on 20 Aries
square DNA-KASSANDRA on 20 Libra
square SAPPHO on 22 Libra
Square MUSA On 21 Libra
opposite ARTHUR-GAWAIN on 21 Cap
opposite DON QUIXOTE on 23 Cap

Yes, I think we can be rather sure this is a theme!

TISIPHONE also
inconjunct PHILOMELA on 23 Aquarius and PSYCHE-meanLilith on 24 Aquarius
trine PREY on 25 Scorpio

As for Draco

trpical Tisiphone

conjunct DR ISOLDA on 23 Cancer exact
conjunct DR IC on 24 Cancer
wide conjunct Dr DEJANIRA on 20 Cancer

As for Mr Sag

TISIPHONE on 23 Aries in his 1st house
opposite Pluto on 21 LIbra in 7th
square Venus on 25 Cap in 11th
oh and philomela on 26 Cap
inconjunct Uranus on 23 Scorpio

the square to Nessus on 18 Cancer is too wide, but interesting nevertheless

Draconically speaking

his tropical Tisiphone

conjunct Draco DESC (1)
opposite Draco Pholus (1)
conjunct Draco Saturn (2)

Draco Tisiphone
conjunct Uranus (2)

Interestingly enough is Draco Tisiphone is conjunct his Odysseus and my Penelope right on the cusp of my 12th house, and deep in his 8th.

Also I notice

my Tisiphone
-conjunct Draco ISOLDA exactly
(23 Cancer)
-opposite Arthur (21 Cap)
-square Dr Tristan (23 Aries - while i usually do not note wuares in the DRacos, I found this interesting, especially considering where HIS natal Tisiphone resides )

-square Dr Venus (25 Aries
- square Dr STONEHENGE (21 Aries)
- square Dr Vesta (21 Aries)
- square Dr KNIGHT (21 Aries)
- square Dr EXCALIBUR (25 Libra)

m

his Tisiphone (23 Aries)

-opposite LANCELOT (23 Libra)
-roughly opp. GUINEVERE (27 Libra)
-opposite Pluto (21 Libra)

posted October 28, 2014 04:06 PM            

With draco Isolda being opposite the composite Moon on 22 Capricorn, hidden in 12th house.

Interestingly our Draco Composite has Eros on 23 LIbra, too, with IC on 25 Libra

Uranus on 21 Aries.

------------

Dr composite Tisiphone on 17 Scorpio RIGHT on our natal composite MC!, and opposing Eros-Priapus-Dionysos on IC.

Possibly there needs to be something avenged from the past.

The Draco Isolda/Tristan-mp in the composite is on 11 Leo, roughly conjunct composite Karma on 9 leo and ARIADNE on 12 Leo, which trines BACCHUS on 12 Sagittarius, so funy enough the Draco Isolda/Tristan seems to be closely related and triggering the Ariadne-Bacchus in tropical composite.

So it gets freakier

Draco composite Ariadne 21 Capricorn
Draco composite Tristan 22 Cancer
(all relating to my tropical Tisiphone of course)

So my tropical Tisiphone (23 Cancer) opposite draco composite Ariadnes (21 Cap)

his tropical Tisiphone (23 Aries)
conjunct draco composite Dionysos (24 ARies)

Draco composite Tisiphone conjunct Guinevere/Lancelot-mp-
opposing Dionysos and on the solstice point of Ariadne. lol

posted October 28, 2014 04:16 PM            

For you, I'd look at MEGAIRA (464) as well, as yours is clearly defining a love relationship (LANCELOT / GUINEVERE) and the Furies 'intention' or 'lessons' can surprisingly vacillate between the three depending upon the present purpose. TISIPHONE, for example, involved in a romantic-dynamics karma, can operate as MEGAIRA or even ALEKTO (465).

posted October 28, 2014 11:56 PM            

Would this mean i have a prominent Tisiphone?

However i never felt like i had to avenge my family for any reason.

Furthermore,i have Dejanira conjunct Child(exact),which conjunct moon (orb 3-3.9).

Ami has said this indicates abuse in childhood which i doubt happen because i don't remember it.I'm sure i would remember something like that.

But to see Tisiphone right smack conjunct my moon by just 25 minutes is a shocker.Do you have any idea what it means,Aubyanne?

Btw Tisiphone also conjunct my Dejanira,orb 3 degrees 30 minutes,and my child at nearly an orb of 4 degrees.

Tisiphone also trine Nessus exact.

Sedna Trines Uranus orb 1.

posted October 29, 2014 12:24 AM            

Do you have a strong emotion in reaction to crimes against children? Especially when a family member betrays a child? Either by a breach of trust, or some form of abuse?

Also, sadly, I have to admit that it's by sharing a delineation (the most common one) for Scorpio MOON with a good friend of mine at age 13 which led to me recalling the abuse I had endured as a child, from age 7 to 12. Specifically, I was stating how lucky I was, that I somehow skated by, unlike many lunar Scorpions, without having endured sexual abuse.

... I was wrong.

posted October 29, 2014 02:26 AM            

First off, me and my mother.

Tropical

Her Sun conjunct my Tisiphone, 29 minutes
Her Ramirez trine my Tisiphone, 25 minutes
Her Prey square my Tisiphone, 3 degrees
Her Tisiphone sextile my Tisiphone, 3 degrees
Her Sedna sextile my Tisiphone, 2 degrees
Her AC trine my Tisiphone, 3 degrees
Her Tisiphone sextile my Moon, 17 minutes
Her Tisiphone sextile my AC,43 minutes

Draco

Her Ramirez square my Tisiphone, 3 degrees
Her AC square my Tisiphone, 51 minutes
Her Tisiphone square my Venus, 2 degrees
Her Tisiphone opposite my Mars,2 degrees
Her Tisiphone trine my Jupiter, 1 degree
Her Tisiphone opposite my Vx, 1 degree
Her Tisiphone square my Dejanira, 3 degrees
Her Tisiphone trine my MC, 3 degrees

Now for Moldy Voldie.

Tropical

His Sun sextile my Tisiphone, 1 degree
His Venus square my Tisiphone, 1 degree
His Sedna sextile my Tisiphone, 3 degrees
His AC trine my Tisiphone, 1 degree
His Tisiphone conjunct my Venus, 6 minutes
His Tisiphone sextile my Uranus, 2 degrees
His Tisiphone square my VX, 3 degrees
His Tisiphone conjunct my Dejanira,32 minutes
His Tisiphone sextile my Ramirez,1 degree
His Tisiphone sextile my Sedna, 1 degree

Draco

His Saturn trine my Tisiphone, 1 degree
His Vx square my Tisiphone, 1 degree
His Tisiphone trine my Pluto, 17 minutes
His Tisiphone trine my Chiron, 2 degrees

My Tisiphone is in my 4th house, and isn't active in my chart. My mother's Tisiphone is in her 7th house, and is not active in her chart. Moldy Voldie's Tisiphone is in his 9th house, and is not active in his chart either. The aspects between the charts though are interesting.

posted October 29, 2014 03:59 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aubyanne:
Aurora,

Do you have a strong emotion in reaction to crimes against children? Especially when a family member betrays a child? Either by a breach of trust, or some form of abuse?

Also, sadly, I have to admit that it's by sharing a delineation (the most common one) for Scorpio MOON with a good friend of mine at age 13 which led to me recalling the abuse I had endured as a child, from age 7 to 12. Specifically, I was stating how lucky I was, that I somehow skated by, unlike many lunar Scorpions, without having endured sexual abuse.

... I was wrong.

So tread carefully, and cautiously, but be aware that sometimes astrology can actually reveal things to ourselves we don't even know -- or (as in my case) have repressed.

---

I do in fact get very upset over abuse towards a child especially if it's sexual abuse.More so if it's done by a family member.I feel that families should protect the child not hurt them by abusing them whether mentally,emotionally,physically or even sexually which i think is the worst form of abuse.

*hugs* I'm sorry to hear that Aubyanne.I guess it hits too close to home for me to accept that it could have happen to me just because i can't remember it,so i couldn't have,could i?I don't know.One day i'll know.But it kinda scares me to find out,if i'm being honest.Might also explain a few other things which are too personal to state here.Certain sexual thoughts/habits which come into my mind pretty young.Could that in some way come across in the charts as sexual abuse?Because in a way i was 'robbed' of my childhood because i peaked early(or so i feel.)

I checked out my draconic chart for fun and i found that :

My draconic Prey was exactly conjunct my natal Dejanira and Child.

My Natal prey was square my draconic dejanira and child.(orb 1-2)

Draconic Philomela was conjunct my natal Karma (orb 1)

posted October 29, 2014 10:55 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aubyanne:
First, we must understand her natal influence and determine a temporal marker. For that, we need to observe all Tropical natal conjunctions, squares, and oppositions.

Is she presently active? (TISIPHONE conjunct luminaries, personal points, and potentially angular.)

If so, take note of house, aspects, and houses connected by rulership.

...

This is a good time to also bring in those asteroids often seen in connection to incidents of domestic abuse: incest, family violence, homicide within one's own bloodline: fratricide, matricide, infanticide, patricide, etc.

• Do I regularly feel the need to seek vengeance for crimes done to others?

• For what crimes will I especially not stand?

---

You said to note the natal first, so you know it's active at my end with the Karma-Sun conjunction, nodal squares, Alecto SN with all the rest there as well. More so posting with the draconic, where Tisiphone-Karma (+Nostalgia, NOT, Lie, Niger, Christen, Stevens and Mexico) head to 0 degrees Capricorn. Still obviously 1,5-2 from Sun at 2 Cap. Paris-Skepticus is at 25 Aquarius opposite Tisiphone.

2H Tisiphone, next to Leo Sun. SN in Taurus 11th, NN in Scorpio 5th, so they all amplify one another. 2H and Taurus, Leo and 5H so the Leo Sun ties to both Nodes from the middle with balance either way? 8H Moon opp Sun, 11H my secondary 7th+8th as well.

Draconic Sun is conjunct Icarus on West Point, East Point with Nessus at 2 Cancer. Yes, Karma-Tisiphone 0 Cap about 2 opposite Nessus and square MC-IC, of course. 0 Can has Dionysus as I recall, Odysseus at 2 Cancer as well as I recall but might've been at 0 Can, too. It's possibly significant there's Odysseus-Nessus when my Penelope-Medea-Lorelei conjuncts Valentine, but that's straying further still from Tisiphone or Furies directly.

---

Still not sure how NOT (negating something?) and Lie work with something like Tisiphone (or Karma) when so prominently placed, but with Karma-Nostalgia can only assume there is something somewhere in the past to see about. Niger means black but don't know about the country, whereas Mexico had the Mayans and my (hermit of a) great-uncle visited there in the 70s during his sailor days. I eventually upon my graduation got a silver necklace of the Mayan calendar stone he'd bought from there back in the day. I knew someone from Mexico online at one stage for 1,5 years maybe, and have spent the whole summer reading about a film production in one place in Mexico, so it's also been more prominent recently through other things.

No idea if it'd tie in that Texas sort of features with all that (and did historically) when I have Dallas conjunct Moon and Kennedy(+Destinn) conjunct Kaali, near/conjunct Venus. My "hook" to the Mexico production has a Kennedy-Dallas-Texan twist, their Sun on my Alecto-SN. Actually, their Karma at 7 Virgo as well if I remember correctly now, so between my Venus and Kaali, my Kennedy at 9 Virgo. But that's people elsewhere, hooks for me to lean toward something even when don't know why I'd be obsessing over a random project about something devoid of interest to me before a hook or something making me fixate on it.

Much as I've always liked westerns and again, have somehow ended up knowing more people from Dallas/Fort Worth online than anywhere else in the States, I've never wanted to live in western style environments (dry dusty barren canyony whatevers, who would?) or anything such. Still, I have Mexico-Karma-Tisiphone conjunct Sun and square Nodes, Moon conjunct Dallas. Also the Kennedy-Kalahari-whatever with Kaali-Nike-Fox-Adams-Swindle-etc. conjunct Venus.

If Mexico is involved historically, or the Mayans, there is a lot of dark history there, of course. Blood sacrifices, wars, hearts torn out one way or another. Part of the society or beliefs then perhaps, so not necessarily transgression against social orders or mores, but going against someone personally is still possible even if supposedly "right" or condoned by others. Even the more recent history has so much darkness going on with disappearances, social injustices and inequalities, drug lords and gangs doing so much wrong to the place and people, but for it to be something to do with my pasts it needs to happen before 1975 at the very minimum. I don't know what Mexico would be for me, but there is an ambivalent feeling about it even if the ruins and temples would be exquisite to see.

22 Aries hits 26 Leo directly if talking its draco spot and nTisiphone, but I don't remember much from 22 Aries other than Rolling Stone(s?) and Ate, if recall. 21 always had more, with Anubis, Bonk, Garuda and more I forget now. Seelos, something like that.

---

SECONDLY:

What do you count as asteroids or signs relating to incest in particular? There is Elektra with her interest in her father Agamemnon as I recall, but her not getting what she wanted, for the Elektra complex? Then there's Oedipus for the unknowing destined thing with his mother and the oedipal side. I don't remember anything else offhand, so what do you tie to that particular thing since you bring it up? Were there any siblings actually considered incestuous (what with most gods seeming to pair with their sisters, anyway)? Egyptian royalty were brother-sister style pairs from what I understand, but again, not sure we can use those as any indicator of something like that. I imagine Lust would feature strongly in some way with that as well, to get past barriers, but what else and how would they feature?

---

THIRD, question answers:

Still the avenging blind-eyed castrating goddess with a sickle if talking things like raping of women in warzones. Alecto-Armandhammer-SN conjunct Hades-Algol? Nemesis at 7 Scorpio with Annefrank and more.

There's a sense of "There are things you don't do" and that you keep children safe, protected and kept from grown-up troubles to whatever extent possible, letting children stay children. Then again, childhood is a modern concept I'm told, history being different. Whatever the case, "There are things you don't do". You transgress and you're a sh*te, whatever.

Vengeance is a lot of/too much work. It's not helpful for your being/personal state to get into full-on Alecto or Nemesis or whatever style anger. Especially over something you can't influence in any case, with the war zones in news. With a love gone wrong and hearing the person had met someone (that they then got involved with) three days after you left the place, there was honesty over thoughts of wanting to push her off a cliff, probably at the least. "Rejection" reactions, poisons of the heart, things that are rarely too nice to look at and supposedly make you look dark, even if I'd bet many people could lean toward such thoughts if bothering to be honest and not freak out over the tiniest hint of the "darker" or uglier sides of life, emotions and everything. Or if they dared bring anything less than shiny up in public forums, but anyway. Scorpio NN, 8H Moon? Honest, I have Angelica on the NN & it's a Pisces Moon for a double Leo, I'm cuddly really (not).

posted October 29, 2014 01:09 PM            

You know I'm from Dallas, yes?

posted October 29, 2014 08:20 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aubyanne:
You know I'm from Dallas, yes?

Wow. DALLAS-MOON. How didn't I know there's an asteroid DALLAS?

---

Hahaha. Now that you mention it, I think I may have somewhere down the line read something pointing toward the general region but don't think I ran into specifics. This is what I mean with how it happens. The honing in process that just happens, even when you don't know the astrology yet. I think you've noted there are contacts from you to my NN at least and the usual, but I never memorized what you had at late Scorpio.

From what I recall there is an asteroid for Texas in general, too, and one for Houston (city, historical figure, space program related, probably varies what it suggests with people without a direct name link to it) as well as Dallas. No direct Fort Worth as I recall and I don't remember what I used to check what approximations gave.

Actually, Kennedy could with some goodwill be made to link up to the space program same as Houston, and Apollo and such as well, of course.

For the longest time Dallas was the only asteroid I could find conjuncting my moon, so I had no idea what was going on with all that. Haven't remembered another one I found yet but memory stored De Sanctis once I found that, so something more or less "sacred" for it as well. There are patterns in the people I meet online and certain concentrations, with my 8 Leo China (conj ASC + tons of asteroids in the region) and Dallas doing a lot at times. Hence the suspicion the Mexico may do something, even if I've yet to have ties to New Zealand despite Aotearoa on my Sun. That's the other way from Tisiphone, although suspect even it is still technically about the 3,5 degrees away.

posted October 29, 2014 11:04 PM            

For online friends, however -- Pennsylvania. That takes the cake. The count is something like 8. That's just crazy.

Then, back in my teens, I started making connexions to Los Angeles. Coolest thing so far is discovering I'd moved a literal street down from one of my very first LA friends, from when we were 14.

posted October 31, 2014 04:06 AM            

Given that they're Draco, that's difficult to discern; rather, if they're in Draco, but not Tropical.

posted October 31, 2014 10:54 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aubyanne:
Aurora,

Given that they're Draco, that's difficult to discern; rather, if they're in Draco, but not Tropical.

In my experience, DEJA in connexion to CHILD is often indicative of some sort of abusive history. I have PHILOMELA conjunct OPHELIA, too, and can attest that either of them are severely vulnerable points. If one connects to another 'victim' or 'abuse' point, it can be a marker for victimisation.

---

posted October 31, 2014 12:33 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aurora_girl1990:
I was bullied in school but i think when you say abuse you meant something more than just bullying.(It wasn't that bad bully,just here and there).well does self abuse count?Or does the abuse have to be from someone external to me?

---

That's a very good question. Why don't you open a specific thread for DEJA/CHILD and OPHELIA-PHILOMELA? I know we once had one on the latter, and all came to discover we'd suffered abuse -- specifically, in relationships, with that combination -- and felt very 'silenced' either by family or our society / immediate circle, in some fashion.

posted October 31, 2014 12:58 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aubyanne:
That's a very good question. Why don't you open a specific thread for DEJA/CHILD and OPHELIA-PHILOMELA? I know we once had one on the latter, and all came to discover we'd suffered abuse -- specifically, in relationships, with that combination -- and felt very 'silenced' either by family or our society / immediate circle, in some fashion.

This one's specifically to try and understand how TISIPHONE is operating; if you now know she's connected to DEJA/CHILD, or may be avenging something in connexion to DEJA/CHILD -- well, that's more information than you had starting out.

---

I will take your advice Aubyanne.I apology for taking the thread slightly of course here.

posted October 31, 2014 03:05 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aurora_girl1990:
I will take your advice Aubyanne.I apology for taking the thread slightly of course here.

---

posted November 07, 2014 02:48 PM            

I thought, let's begin at the beginning: the TISIPHONE (466) Discovery Chart. 17 January 1901, in Heidelberg, Germany, with the time unknown, of course.

But there are some staggering things, right off the bat.

TISIPHONE is at 29º CAN '57 -- and retrograde. Miraculously, she's retrograde with EIGHT other objects!

MARS, NEPTUNE, PLUTO, KARMA, ALEKTO, MEGAIRA, VALENTINE -- and DEJANIRA!

Wow!

I think she was aptly named!

It's also got me ruminating upon the obvious:

What exactly is a TISIPHONIC pattern anyway?

What is it conveying? For what purpose? How could this information prove useful in synastry and natal astrology? So, before we delve deeper, let's take a step back and ask the simple question.

What do you hope to learn or otherwise better understand through TISIPHONE in your chart?

Are her concepts completely foreign and surprising to you? If she's prominently configured, are you being asked to view yourself through her lens? Better understand your relationship to the principles of vengeance and righteous justice? Or even 'righteous justice', as the case may be?

I was very surprised to find TISIPHONE as active in so many charts, given the criteria by which I've been studying. Either there's a reason for this, or these are false positives, and the criteria must reflect the results of the exploration.

So, let's talk TISIPHONE.

posted August 12, 2015 05:53 PM            

Out of curiosity, I tested this in the synastry between two historical figures who most fascinate me:

Person A's Tisiphone squares Person B's Sun, exact. Person A most definitely avenged crimes against his kin: in fact, Person B literally lost his head for those crimes.

Interesting, too, that Person B has a very tight conjunction of Tisiphone and Ceres. His sense of, and bitterness against, grievances committed against his family were nursed by his mother and, after her death, an imposing maternal figure.