posted December 09, 2014 09:58 AM            

However, sometimes there is undeniable meaning in these charts, like anchors of sanity, helping them understand that the dynamics ARE happening objectively and not just in their minds. Especially in these cases, my friends end up repeating what I've said to various friends and co-workers (ie, "His Neptune is conjunct my north node in Sagittarius, and I swear he can read my mind.")

Which gives the accidental impression that I am an astrologer. Which makes the people my friends talk to wonder if I would look at their relationship, too?

And I'd love to but:

a) I don't want people taking me seriously...I don't want the responsibility of throwing them off, or god forbid causing trouble, especially if my conclusions are wrong.

b) I prefer to discuss charts in person, more like an exploration and learning experience for ME than anything. (ie, "I see his Neptune is conjunct your north node...is there any psychic connection here? What can you tell me about this?)

c) As y'all know, astrology is complicated and in order for me to convey messages, I have to include a mini astrology lesson within the reading. So the readings get long just because they include an astrology lesson.

Anyone else in the same position? Have you figured out a system for handling these requests and composing readings? Also, are there any special indicators that you are looking for, beyond what's routinely discussed here?

If I'm going to be doing this, I want to make sure it's the best I can make it.

Thanks for any input

posted December 09, 2014 10:54 AM            

I hear you about these issues with readings for non-astro savvy people in RL, my experience exactly! Readings get too long, also take very long to prepare (I always second-guess myself and try to make sure everything is accurate and nothing overlooked and that takes lots of time). However, the bigger issue in my experience has been the way many people react to readings - some behave as if their doom has been pronounced or sometimes, on the contrary, they get unduly excited over some tidbit and ignore all the rest. This happened a few times and it didn't feel right to me to read for people if they are going to cling to that reading for dear life, or distort the message to suit their wishes…tough situation, really, I don't have a good solution to offer. In my case the consequence has been that I've all but stopped giving astro readings to people I don't know well, and now only read for people who will use the info constructively, in a level-headed way. I only ever offer to read for someone when I feel compelled to do so because there's some problem that needs looking into; I don't do readings for people who are simply curious anymore.

Anyway, how to go about it? I guess everyone has their own way of doing it, and I don't claim mine is particularly good, it's only what works for me. When looking at couples, I start with both natals and see whether the preferred "type" indicated by the other's personal planets (Sun,Moon,Venus, Mars) and AC/DC axis corresponds with the other natal - that alone can give interesting discussions. Next, where are each one's growth areas (indicated e.g. by aspects to the luminaries, Saturn, and the nodes), and how could the other person help them achieve growth? Then, I look into the synastry for conjunctions first, other strong aspects second. I must confess I use the composite much less, am still not fully convinced of its usefulness as a stand-alone chart and see it mainly as an auxiliary chart to the synastry, same with the draco charts. (By the way, in the composite, house placements could have been shifted 180 degrees by Astro.com to the other midpoint so one needs to have a policy on how to handle that.) I always use the aspect grid to make sure I don't miss something important from the pics alone. I mainly focus on planets and angles, and then, maybe also look into a few asteroids depending on the nature of the case. But never just asteroids without checking the planets and angles first. At first, I will try to look at those things that create a connection, and then at those that could cause friction. These are usually the areas that need looking into, and the reader can then try and estimate the effect of e.g. a Pluto/Mars square depending on house and sign placements and offer some constructive ideas on how to handle the energy should it start to cause problems. Last, I'm always very careful not to make fatalistic pronouncements as e.g. "beware, this guy is certain to cheat on you at some point"; neither would I say, "You are destined to spend the rest of your life with this guy". Things like that can become a self-fulfilling prophecy and I would not like to be the source of origin of such (often wrong) ideas.

posted December 09, 2014 02:18 PM            

Well, if I want to keep it really short:

1. angles
2. luminaries
3. Venus/Mars
4. nodal axis and Vertex
5. main progressed synastry and activated synastric aspects (per transits or progression)

Usually that actually explains everything. I find I am always looking and looking and looking, but in the end it seems to already be there in the basics (including the geometrical patterns of course.)

And I hear you, I don´t like getting requests like these. For all the reasons you two named.

Anyway that was what I was writing 3 years ago

My Shortcut for synastry to find patterns:
1. Check the natals for the same or complimentary themes:
For example: You have Moon in Pisces - he has Moon conjunct Neptune
A similiar theme would be highlighted for you.

A complimentary one would be if you have Moon in Pisces and he has Sun square Neptune.
(I would only count conjunction, opposition, and close squares and trines here).

Check for planets in sign/house/aspect
Example:
Sun in Sagittarius is similiar to Sun in 9th or Sun conjunct Jupiter (not exactly the same, but similiar enough)
Planets in the 1st house are also emphasised, so in this case Jupiter in 1st house would give a similiar vibe as well

1b) Check the conditions of each 5th, 7th and 8th house (sign at cusp, ruler in sign and house, planets in these houses) and how they "fit" together

--------------------------------------

2. Check the synastry: see if natal themes are being repeated.
Let`s say in synastry his Neptune squares your Moon that would be a highlighted theme.

3. Check (in synastry) the angles and angle rulers aspecting Sun, Moon, ASC, IC, nodal axis and angle rulers (note in which houses the planets and angles/anglerulers are placed)
for romantic relationships the 7th house is of utmost importance

4. Check Venus, Mars, 5th and 8th house (for "sparks"); 7th house is more about partnership.

5. For past life interactions or deeply subconscious patterns you can check out the 12th house, planets in 12th house and the ruler of 12th house (for past lives the SN is quite revealing as well)

6. ALL waterhouses are indicative of deep emotional themes, so make a special note if in the synastric overlay significant planets (those which are involved in strong aspects) fall into or rule the waterhouses; even if the aspect is made by Saturn and Uranus, if they rule the 8th and 4th house they will ALWAYS have a strong emotional effect

notes:
° I mainly consider
1. conjunction and opposition
2. square and trine
(3. solstice points/ antiscion - but the jury is still out on these)

° there should be balance:
The connections involving 5th, 7th and 8th house seem to be of main importance for relationships. (the 4th house would be allimportant for a very deep emotional connection, but it`s not sexual; the 8th is actually both, deeply emotional and deeply sexual and plainly scary in terms of intensity and depth).

If only one person´s 5th, 7th and 8th house-connections (especially their ruler) aspect the other Sun, Moon, ASC, ruler of 1st or even 4th house, then we probably have a case of unrequited feelings at our hand (or at least a case where one feels more than the other).

If it goes both ways, good.

7. Check especially for challenging aspects of the personal planets Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, the angles and the ruler of 1st, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 7th and 8th house to Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, Pluto (and maybe Chiron).
These might relate to the "big issues", most likely karmic in nature and not easy to deal with, but in the end transformative.
challenges involving
Saturn: blockages, the "brake"
Uranus: unpredictibality, sudden changes, "on and off"
Neptune: dissolving, sometimes deluding others and oneself
Pluto: (subconscious) powerplays, very forceful
Jupiter: overindulgence (though even squares of Jupiter to Moon or Venus are usually quite joyful, you just have to keep an eye on the bankaccount now and then ).

8. Check also the harmonious aspects to the outer planets:
Jupiter can be endlessly supportive and your "biggest fan". Saturn can be stabilizing and structuring (which is needed in a relationship as well - commitment!).
Uranus can be liberating, inspiring and electrifying, giving you completely new ideas.
Neptune can be very compassionate, and loving in an allencompassing, unconditional sense (though Neptune`s love is more spiritual than personal, which often is the problem in a Venus-Neptune-aspect.)
Pluto can be intense and "rebuilding" you from the inside, baring your soul so you can strip away everything that is unreal, that is not "your truth". (it demands a bit of courage though).

9. Check for conjunctions to the nodal axis, South Node and North Node.
If there are only conjunctions to the SN without some to the NN, the connection might be passing away, you might have outlived its sell-date. (not my words, I read that in a book by Blashke and also in one by Hall).
if there are also conjunctions to the NN then you have a common path, no matter how long or short it will be.

EDIT:
Back then Iwas writing too onesided about challenging vs. harmonious aspects. That is actually not true, while of course Saturn often is felt as blockage it also can be indicative of very serious involvement and readiness to work on issues.

posted December 09, 2014 03:57 PM            

I wrote that though when I was in my "clear-aspectual-relations" phase.

posted December 09, 2014 05:33 PM            

'Will answer more thoroughly later.

posted December 09, 2014 05:38 PM            

And believe it or not, I just learned something new from it about a synastry I thought was thoroughly over-analyzed already on my part:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Check for planets in sign/house/aspect
Example:
Sun in Sagittarius is similiar to Sun in 9th or Sun conjunct Jupiter (not exactly the same, but similiar enough)

---

posted December 09, 2014 07:18 PM            

I go straight to the Synastry chart, check for the obvious indicators like Mars-Venus, Sun-Sun, Asc aspects, Moons, you know, the basic stuff. More often than not it tells the story sufficiently.

If I need more info I use house overlays which sometimes explain why there is an attraction despite poor aspects.

And only if its really required I'll use the composite but only if they're actually a couple or business partners or some kind of unit.

posted December 10, 2014 12:07 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Vajra:
However, the bigger issue in my experience has been the way many people react to readings

---

Exactly....I haven't done this too often but have gotten over-enthusiasm (and I have to watch myself carefully that I don't give false hopes just to make someone feel good.) I've also done readings that went right over the person's head...like, I am seeing the whole relationship potential and they're only focused on the next date. It's a clash.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Vajra:
In my case the consequence has been that I've all but stopped giving astro readings to people I don't know well, and now only read for people who will use the info constructively, in a level-headed way.

---

That's smart. I'm still so fascinated with astrology, and so anxious to redeem the time I spend on it with some "philantropy" (free readings for random people), that I am still doing this. I might quit if I have a significantly bad experience. For now I try to stave off bad experiences by making sure everyone knows this is just *for entertainment purposes.*

(Even though it isn't and can't be. For example, how is seeing Saturn square Venus in synastry "entertaining"? I guess if the person just takes life with a grain of salt and enjoys challenges.)

quote:

---

Originally posted by Vajra:
I always use the aspect grid to make sure I don't miss something important from the pics alone.

---

Wow I can barely decipher those...I never look there.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Vajra:
These are usually the areas that need looking into, and the reader can then try and estimate the effect of e.g. a Pluto/Mars square depending on house and sign placements and offer some constructive ideas on how to handle the energy should it start to cause problems.

---

As I am about to tell Ceri, reading this makes me wish that you would read my chart!

Just kidding, I wouldn't beg. But I ought to take a fresh look at my own chart and try these different methods.

Also, it never occurs to me to offer solutions to people when I see their charts...except "wait it out, this is just a bad transit and a difficult year in your progressed chart."

Other astrologers have told me things like, look for someone who's planets turn your t-square into a grand cross, but I'm still completely lost as to why that would be a good thing.

posted December 10, 2014 12:54 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Usually that actually explains everything. I find I am always looking and looking and looking, but in the end it seems to already be there in the basics (including the geometrical patterns of course.)

---

I have been looking at natals, composite, progressed composite with transits, progressed natals. I think that's too much but I am a Believer in progressed charts and a reading feels incomplete to me without them.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
And I hear you, I don´t like getting requests like these. For all the reasons you two named.

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Glad you understand.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
For example: You have Moon in Pisces - he has Moon conjunct Neptune

---

Indeed he does Though the orb is wide. I'm talking about my husband here, not Elvis for once.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
A complimentary one would be if you have Moon in Pisces and he has Sun square Neptune.
(I would only count conjunction, opposition, and close squares and trines here).

---

Argh, but is that good or bad? If the aspects involve the same planets but are mismatched?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Check the synastry: see if natal themes are being repeated.
Let`s say in synastry his Neptune squares your Moon that would be a highlighted theme.

---

Oh I see...it's a matter of zeroing in on the "major players" and noticing how they interact. I suppose it's like, the more interaction there is, the more important the relationship might seem, at least as a developmental stage, relative to the issues the planets represent.

Like:

My DSC ruled by Uranus
Hubby's DSC ruled by Saturn

Pretty sure we both have moon = Uranus/Saturn MP and then moon-Neptune contacts. Translated and oversimplified, that theme is about change vs. structure and the consequences (real and imagined) on the emotions.

That fits!

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
6. ALL waterhouses are indicative of deep emotional themes, so make a special note if in the synastric overlay significant planets (those which are involved in strong aspects) fall into or rule the waterhouses; even if the aspect is made by Saturn and Uranus, if they rule the 8th and 4th house they will ALWAYS have a strong emotional effect

---

I gotta remember this.

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
...the 8th is actually both, deeply emotional and deeply sexual and plainly scary in terms of intensity and depth

---

I know right??? LOL

This is why I never hung around Pisces men...

*pulls blanket from lap over shoulders*

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
If only one person´s 5th, 7th and 8th house-connections (especially their ruler) aspect the other Sun, Moon, ASC, ruler of 1st or even 4th house, then we probably have a case of unrequited feelings at our hand (or at least a case where one feels more than the other).

---

Excellent.

*daydreams*

So, theoretically, if someone's 5th, 7th and 8H rulers all tie in with my sun, moon, and ASC, they should like me? (I'm channeling my inner Leo now.)

Probably Virgo ASC would be drawn to me then (?): Pisces DSC to match my Pisces moon, Cap 5H to match Cap sun, Aries 8H where my Aries Jupiter might fall in an overlay...also I have Jupiter sextile Mars exact & sun quincunx Mars exact. (Jupiter square sun.)

Also, my DSC is conjunct Mercury so an ASC-Mercury person would be nice.

Not being scandalous, just analytical, in case I am ever single again, even if that's in the nursing home.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Check especially for challenging aspects of the personal planets Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, the angles and the ruler of 1st, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 7th and 8th house to Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, Pluto (and maybe Chiron).

---

Not sure if I could juggle all that and remain coherent, especially not with my own chart, since it's so full of squares anyway. Not like I can hope to escape myself through synastry.

posted December 10, 2014 12:57 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Koho:
I lazy but this method has never failed me in my dating life.

---

But then, why are you still single?

posted December 10, 2014 02:52 AM            

The progressed synastry might even overshadow natal synastry for the time being (though of course it is fleetin and passing, and if it passes you better hope there is something of substance in the natal synastry that has been awoken).

Funny enough, even though Mr Sag and me do not have THAT much of Uranian natal synastry, it SURE is there in our progressions. right from the start. Well then it was my pr Uranus trine his pr Venus exact (a nice smooth start for electricity. lol)

for the last year or two it was his pr Uranus squaring my pr Venus.

It is fading out now, and for the moment just leaving us with

my pr Uranus square his pr Sun (0°10 separating, so leaving the peak behind)

my n and pr uranus are also squaring his pr MC (this one is one degree applying still - so probably I will totally disrupt his life over the next year. just kidding, I don`t intend that. his pr MC has also entered 00 Aquarius, so is familiar with Uranus anyway)

Interestingly my pr Moon is on 1 Leo as of now, squaring my n Uranus on 1 Scorpio and applying to square my pr Uranus on 2 Scorpio, which in turn is opposing and squaring his pr Sun on 2 Aquarius.

the funny thing is this sort of mimicks my progression I had when we first met (my pr Moon had been on 00 Taurus, my pr Sun on 00 Aquarius and my n Uranus on 01 Scorpio - the difference is that in the current timeframe it is HIS p Sun and p MC that completes that planetary picture, while back then he did not really align with that too strongly, well unless we count his natal Vesta on 2°59 Taurus)

" I'm talking about my husband here, not Elvis for once."
LOL
I am shocked.

"Argh, but is that good or bad?
That is the question. You can`t know. It just shows what is important.

" If the aspects involve the same planets but are mismatched?"
What do you mean?
Squares are not necessarily a mismatch. They just turn up the intensity so that you can`t ignore them. They YELL at you for attention.
Two people both having Venus-Pluto-square. Is that good or bad?
do they choose the transformative power of love or to manipulate the life out of each other?
Just from this one isolated aspect we cannot say.
But what we can say is that Venus-Pluto WILL have to manifest somehow.

BTW my friend and me have that as well.
She has Pluto conjunct Venus and Mars; I have Pluto square Venus and Pluto widely sextile Mars.
In our case it means we simply "get" each other. Since we both have a Moon-Saturn-aspect as well (trine and quinkunx), you can imagine how weirdly committed our friendship is. lol
People are always surprised to hear we are STILL in contact and friends. In fact during a certain time in our lives there have been other friends trying to sort of "break us up", possibly because they were jealous of our bond. We hardly noticed. lol
Its just people don`t get how a friendship can be that rocksolid, despite being rather different (on the surface, beneath it there is a lot of similiarity).

I also remember after having met Mr Sag and being shocked about me asking the man for his birthtime, pretty much 5 minutes after meeting him, I was calling her, still totally traumatized about what I had done, and pretty much stuttering that this nothing I would do, that was not like me, and I heard her laugh at the end of the line and saying:

"this is EXACTLY what you would do. This is so totally you, it`s refreshing."
(Yeah she thought it was entertaining. lol but she was right, that is EXACTLY how I am, if I am not keeping myself on a leash).

" I suppose it's like, the more interaction there is, the more important the relationship might seem, at least as a developmental stage, relative to the issues the planets represent."
Yes.
also if the synastry reflects the natal, it reaches deep into your personality and soul. The longer lasting relationships usually show a complex web of interconnections and mirroring like that.

It`s ther eason I can`t do anything with someone with Venus and/ or Mars in Leo, it might be trining the heck out of my Sagittarius-planets, but it just doesn`t have that much to do with me personally (no solar Venus or Mars), unless of course their Leo planet was square Pluto.

"Pretty sure we both have moon = Uranus/Saturn MP"
Which is definitely a similiarity. Yes.

"I gotta remember this."
Yes. someone aspecting my Saturn, well I react emotionally to my Saturn. But then it is in Cancer in 8th house - I did not say it was easy though.

the composite Venus opposes my Saturn exactly - that is panic par excellance for my poor anxious insecure Saturn (lucking Venus is in Capricorn ). It is nothing that Mr Sag really does, it is the quality of our combined Venus-placement.
As I said not easy, but the reaction is strong (I gather he has a similiar thing going on in terms of our composite Mars-NN, as it falls onto his Pluto, while composite Moon falls onto his Venus and hence activating his natal Venus-Pluto-square. poor guy. )

", theoretically, if someone's 5th, 7th and 8H rulers all tie in with my sun, moon, and ASC, they should like me? "
Very theoretically, yes. (but of course more has to be looked at)

Well I certainly hope so. lol

Mr Sag`s 5th house ruler conjuncts my Sun.
his 7th house ruler conjuncts my ASC.
his traditional 8th house ruler opposes my chartruler. lol

"
Probably Virgo ASC would be drawn to me then (?): Pisces DSC to match my Pisces moon, Cap 5H to match Cap sun, "
Yes, as a start. But still very theoretically speaking.

"Also, my DSC is conjunct Mercury so an ASC-Mercury person would be nice."
Yes, or at least a relationship where communication is highlighted.

"Not being scandalous, just analytical, in case I am ever single again, even if that's in the nursing home."
Of course.

posted December 10, 2014 07:48 AM            

I want to congratulate Ceri for her wonderful breakdown of synastry approach; brilliant as usually

I didn't get to read after that, but I want to ask Ceri and anyone else: what about the emotional impact and the soul connection of 12th house overlays and rulers? I can tell in the two relationships when I had luminaries and Venus overlays (one mutual, one one-sided) in the 12th house I experienced the strongst ever *and it was mutual): emotions, overflowing and overwhelming feelings of love, unconditional love, desire to merge, floating or feeling something very unusual, otherworldy when with that person, desire to be alone together, fatedness and sureness we met before in another life, importance of "two" time together, need to hide from the world together etc. Overall, the strongest emotions and feelings I've experienced in my life. Now, I always have something overlaying my 12th house because almost all my friends and lovers have to have something in Cap lol I mean they always do. And I can tell you we're simply floating when it comes to that particular planet: if it's Mercury, long conversations and mutual understanding, if it's Moon, feeling high and very close together, the idea is that planet is felt between us with its highest vibration; I need to check if I experienced Mars, I don't remember it.

posted December 10, 2014 10:37 AM            

Thank you so much, again! I went to bed and realized I had made a mistake-- my husband's moon is not conjunct Neptune. (What was I thinking??)

It's conjunct Jupiter. He has planets at 29 degrees of Leo, Virgo, and Libra, and I get them mixed up.

quote:

---

my n and pr uranus are also squaring his pr MC (this one is one degree applying still - so probably I will totally disrupt his life over the next year. just kidding, I don`t intend that.

---

LOL! Might happen whether you intend to or not...

quote:

---

Interestingly my pr Moon is on 1 Leo as of now, squaring my n Uranus on 1 Scorpio and applying to square my pr Uranus on 2 Scorpio, which in turn is opposing and squaring his pr Sun on 2 Aquarius.

---

That is interesting! I'd imagine all that Uranus generates electricity between you two. And his pr Sun is conjunct my Eros at 2 Aqua so no wonder I felt the magnetism between you two in a dream.

quote:

---

the difference is that in the current timeframe it is HIS p Sun and p MC that completes that planetary picture, while back then he did not really align with that too strongly

---

And that does strike me as significant. My concern about t-squares and grand crosses forming in synastry is, they might work like a trap, right? They're so compelling but problematic at the same time.

Like my ex-soulmate's sun formed a wide mutable grand cross with my moon, Mars, and Neptune. In a way, that may have enriched his experience and broadened his scope, but I think he was also confused and irritated by my inability to keep things simple and direct. He triggered too many Neptune issues at once.

quote:

---

If the aspects involve the same planets but are mismatched?"
What do you mean?

---

I meant, what if one person has two planets in a square, and the other person has the same two planets in a trine? Thank you for answering that even though I didn't phrase the question clearly.

quote:

---

BTW my friend and me have that as well.
She has Pluto conjunct Venus and Mars; I have Pluto square Venus and Pluto widely sextile Mars.
In our case it means we simply "get" each other. Since we both have a Moon-Saturn-aspect as well (trine and quinkunx), you can imagine how weirdly committed our friendship is. lol

---

Aw, I know your friends' chart! Same as my ex-soulmate's, just about. I'm happy for you that you know someone like that.

And thanks for elaborating on how it plays out. My ex may have moon square Saturn (no birth time for him) while my moon and Saturn don't aspect each other. And I have nothing to match his Venus-Pluto. No wonder I got booted from his life....

quote:

---

"this is EXACTLY what you would do. This is so totally you, it`s refreshing."

---

I love that.

quote:

---

It`s ther eason I can`t do anything with someone with Venus and/ or Mars in Leo, it might be trining the heck out of my Sagittarius-planets, but it just doesn`t have that much to do with me personally (no solar Venus or Mars), unless of course their Leo planet was square Pluto

---

Hmm, what do you mean about "no solar Venus or Mars"? You mean, no aspects between your sun and Venus and Mars?

If that's what you meant...well I can see why I could just be a glutton for Leo Mars energy...put me in a room full of these people and I'm happy. Because my sun is exactly quincunx Gemini Mars; Leo Mars in the middle degrees creates a yod pointing to my sun, and is trine my Venus.

quote:

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Yes. someone aspecting my Saturn, well I react emotionally to my Saturn. But then it is in Cancer in 8th house - I did not say it was easy though.

---

Yes. I react emotionally to Saturn, too, as it's in my 12H and at 0 Leo Retrograde. My husband's sun is widely conjunct my Saturn (I allow 8 orb for luminaries.)

As for my 8H, I honestly don't think I've ever dated a guy who put planets in my 8H. I've kept my 8H a virgin. Well some asteroids have come and gone through there but they don't count, we were just "experimenting."

quote:

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the composite Venus opposes my Saturn exactly - that is panic par excellance for my poor anxious insecure Saturn (lucking Venus is in Capricorn ). It is nothing that Mr Sag really does, it is the quality of our combined Venus-placement.

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Ah, I see. Makes sense.

quote:

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As I said not easy, but the reaction is strong (I gather he has a similiar thing going on in terms of our composite Mars-NN, as it falls onto his Pluto, while composite Moon falls onto his Venus and hence activating his natal Venus-Pluto-square. poor guy. )

---

Boo hoo for him but...he'll live! How did I miss you have composite NN-Mars?? You are destined for...Mars, you know? Holy cow no wonder he looks at you like that.

quote:

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Yes, or at least a relationship where communication is highlighted.

---

I was just realizing the other night that I am dissatisfied with the level of communication with my husband. On the one hand, we are oddly qualified to deal with each other, both having 3H Pluto aspecting Mars and Mercury. And our Mercuries are quincunx (if 4 orb is allowed? Not sure.) His Mercury conjunct Venus, mine sextile Venus. His square Saturn, mine opposing Saturn.

It may just be that my Aqua Mercury is tightly square Uranus, and his Uranus is tightly square my Uranus (opposing my Mercury.) He has no Uranus-Mercury aspect in his chart so he doesn't *get* my challenges.

Reading from cafeastrology:

quote:

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When your Mercury forms a challenging aspect (square, opposition, or quincunx) to your partner's Uranus, your partner is stimulating and intriguing but can also often throw you off course with his/her surprises. Your Uranus partner might find that your opinions are too superficial or traditional, while you might find his/her opinions too off the wall. You can be very impatient with one another. You might find it hard to truly depend on your Uranus partner. Appointments/dates may be cancelled without warning, for example. Communication between you could often be stressful.

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Yes, and he blames it on me (not harshly, just with an eye roll) because it's my mind that's flailing and wondering what to say, not his.

I am self-diagnosing in real time as I sort out your lessons...thank you...it's helping!

One problem has been that everyone in my age group had their Uranus square my Mercury (including you...but hey, we don't seem to have any trouble!)

Note to self, though: In my nursing home dating life, select a really old, Libra Uranus man with Virgo rising.

quote:

---

BTW I forgot to mention, check at first for the conjunctions to the angles and which aspects participate in those. these are taking centre stage.

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posted December 10, 2014 10:46 AM            

Is my 15 Cap sun in your 12H?

And look, we've already exchanged love emoticons , early into the relationship!

posted December 10, 2014 03:46 PM            

"LOL! Might happen whether you intend to or not..."
LOL
Probably. Luckily Uranus can only shake up what needs to be shaken.

I also find it interesting how his pr MC is on 00 Aquarius applying to our composite ASC on 01 Aquarius, while my pr MC is on 16 Scorpio conjunct our composite MC on 16 Scorpio as well.

This was just too obviously aligned to not notice. lol

"That is interesting! I'd imagine all that Uranus generates electricity between you two."
Yes, I think we cannot complain about a lack of bizarre electrical blackouts. lol

" And his pr Sun is conjunct my Eros at 2 Aqua so no wonder I felt the magnetism between you two in a dream."
Yes, though shouldn`t you be magnetized to him then? *scratches head*
My own ERos somehow doesn`t really move, must have been just turned direct again or something like that,
At my birth it was at 21 Cancer, now it is 23 Cancer.

Interestingly our pr composite will have an conjunction of EROS And JUNO, which will peak in may 2015 (*sighs* why do all these progressions peak around spring-autumn 2015?)

"And that does strike me as significant. My concern about t-squares and grand crosses forming in synastry is, they might work like a trap, right? They're so compelling but problematic at the same time."
Not necessarily. I think it highly depends on the planets involved. A Grand Cross of Sun-Mars-Jupiter-Venus can be REALLY a boost.
But it is true the 4th harmonic aspect turn up the volume, you can`t ignore those, and sometimes yes, it means you get trapped, locked down in a weird holding pattern that might not always be so positive.

Imagine a Grand cross of Moon-Saturn-Mars-Pluto for example. Decidedly different than the first example (though some people would thrive on that, I could imagine myself being one of these slithgly masochistic people. )

"Like my ex-soulmate's sun formed a wide mutable grand cross with my moon, Mars, and Neptune."
Neptune can be quite problematic especially paired up with the masculine planets and especially when the signs are more pragmatic in nature. For example his Sun in Virgo or even Gemini might find that Neptune rather problematic. A Pisces Sun, well there should be at least a certain understanding, even though it still can be a little challenging.

For example I do think that my Neptune in conjunction to Mr Sag`s Mercury and square his Mars-Jupiter in Virgo might be one o the most challenging aspects in our synastry (and to make matters really nasty his Saturn squares my Mercury. Boy, poor Mercuries being pushed by the quite different Saturn and Neptune-forces. It fits though Saturn is angular for him, neptune is angular for me, it is very clear who would play which role. Needless to say I NEED the groundedness Saturn can deliver, and he probably finds the Neptunianness a little charming and inspiring. A LITTLE I said, but most of all I think my Neptune is driving his Mars crazy. Literally.

"The vision who was not quite real" he couldn`t have found a better way to describe my Neptune conjunct his Mercury and square his Mars I think.

Add to that Mercury ruling his 3rd house and Neptune ruling my 3rd house, and you get a simultaneous intuitve understanding and total confusion when it comes to direct communication. After all his 3rd house ruler is conjunct my Neptune.
Int his case he got the poorer end of the deal.

And hey with his Mars in VIRGO, that is probably something he can`t quite grasp. Actually I can`t even grasp myself, the evasiveness, avoidance, the way I always seem to just slip away. I mean I observe it in myself, and I am doing it nevertheless.

On the other hand Virgo and Pisces are a polarity, anfd at least from my perspective I can say I need that more pragmatic earthy approach to things, and I admire it.

It is so funny really, how my Neptune conjuncts his Mercury, in Sagittarius, and the dispositor of Sag for him is in Mercury-sign Virgo, and mine is in Neptune-sign Pisces. It just emphasizes the polarity even more.
Of course this also leads us back to our Sun-Moon-conjunction as the dispositors of his Sun-Moon-MC is in Virgo, the dispositor of my Sun-Mercury is in Pisces, and in fact while his Moon-Sun CONJUNCTS my Sun, the dispositor of his Moon-Sun OPPOSES my Sun-dispositor.
It is reaching rather deep into the personality.

And all just with starting to observe the Neptune-issue. lol

" And I have nothing to match his Venus-Pluto. No wonder I got booted from his life...."
It does not always have to be that way, but often when very dominant natal configurations do not find an echo in the other ones chart, there is somehow a bit of a vacuum. Either it gets filled with other things, people leading pretty separate lives in that regard, but still being happy together if there are enough other hooks. However if it is a very very very dominant configuration,e specially in terms of romance, the risk is that the fulfillment might happent hrough another person. Or the relationship simply does not work out. Or is onesided.

posted December 10, 2014 03:46 PM            

"Because my sun is exactly quincunx Gemini Mars; Leo Mars in the middle degrees creates a yod pointing to my sun, and is trine my Venus."
Yes think that would work nicely.

"Yes. I react emotionally to Saturn, too, as it's in my 12H and at 0 Leo Retrograde. My husband's sun is widely conjunct my Saturn (I allow 8 orb for luminaries.)"
Oh you do?

Well then I can add these aspects to my synastry with Mr Sag:

my Sun conjunct his Neptune 5°29
his Moon conjunct my Venus 7°28

The latter one would be actually rather nice to consider, as Moon rules his 5th house and Venus rules mine.

"As for my 8H, I honestly don't think I've ever dated a guy who put planets in my 8H."
Me neither. Cancers aren`t for me.
But I relate to Saturnian people and Uranian ones (Saturn in 8th, ruler of 8th in Aquarius quinkunx Saturn).

Mr Sag seems to be similiar, while his 8th is Scorpio mostly, there is Uranus in ther, and his former girlfriend had this huge stellium of personal planets, including luminaries, in Aquarius.
(he has got also Moon parallel Uranus btw)

"Well some asteroids have come and gone through there but they don't count, we were just "experimenting." "
LOL
My Eros is there, and my Priapus on 00 Leo, and Vertex of course.

"Boo hoo for him but...he'll live! "
LOL
I think so.

Well the Mars-NN on his natal Pluto also falls into his 7th house and Pluto rules his 8th house , so it brings him in contact with his 8th house ruler in 7th house, which is - again - Venus/Pluto-symbolism.

For me that composite Venus is opposing my Saturn, and my Saturn is in 8th house as ruler of 2nd house, so for me - as well- Venus/Pluto-symbolism, just that for him it has more 7th house (relationship) relevance, while for me the emphasis is on a more 2nd house (physical and emotional identity level). Nevertheless for both of us it manifests on the relationship level - for him in 7th house, for me in 8th house. (oh Venus-Pluto strike no 3. LOL)

"Holy cow no wonder he looks at you like that."
No comment

"It may just be that my Aqua Mercury is tightly square Uranus, and his Uranus is tightly square my Uranus (opposing my Mercury.) He has no Uranus-Mercury aspect in his chart so he doesn't *get* my challenges."
Yes, I think that is true. It is funny though,t he pattern/manifestation is still active through the synastry, but you might serve as projection-screen for him on that Uranus-Mercury. So utterly fascinating and utterly nutsmaking probably. Like he probably thinks you are more thana little crazy, or if he is a polite one, unusual and interesting and out of the box.
It depends how his Mercury and 3rd house ruler is operating, how well he can deal with it. but since you are still married, you must have done a good job.

"One problem has been that everyone in my age group had their Uranus square my Mercury (including you...but hey, we don't seem to have any trouble!)"
Of course we don`t!

My Mercury is widely sextile Uranus (though out of sign, 5-6 degrees, I don`t even really count it. lol) More importantly though my 3rd house cusp is in Aquarius, with Uranus being conjunct 11th house cusp. Doesn`t get much more Mercury-Uranus-than that.

It is a little Pluto-laced though (3rd house ruler in Scorpio).

"Note to self, though: In my nursing home dating life, select a really old, Libra Uranus man with Virgo rising."
Ewan Mac Gregor?
Oh wait no, ASC in Libra. Gotta keep on looking.

"
Good to know. My moon is widely conjunct my husband's MC, his sun is on my ASC, and his Jupiter on my IC definitely applies."
Also include those on YOUR OWN angles, they are still forefront.

Checkng this I made a new discovery in Mr Sag`s and my natal charts, involving our MC`s.

First of our MC`s are very different in nature. lol

he has got Sun and Moon in Sagittarius hooked there.

I have Pluto in LIbra on mine. (can you say Venus-Pluto? )

Funny thing is that as different that is, it is what each other`s relationship profile suggests.
My DESC-ruler is in Sagittarius conjunct Sun- in fact my DESC-ruler is conjunct HIS Sun-Moon-MC!

my Pluto-MC falls into his 7th house, with my MC on the exact antiscion of his DESC (a little more subtle but still ther). plus his Venus squaring Pluto is part of his relational profile due to Venus and due to Venus ruling his intercepted 7th house, though the predominant aspects of his relational profile target my ASC more than my MC, which makes a lot of sense, considering how we met.

But what I find almost funny is that he has got ruler of 5th and 6th house conjunct his MC, while I have the rulers of 11th and 12t house conjunct mine, so we have the polar-complementary ruler being brougth forefront. *scratches head*

posted December 10, 2014 05:39 PM            

Anyways, I'll rewrite the short bit of it.

Only thing I disagree with in the thread that I'm aware of is the disregarding of the composite. But I can understand why some people would disregard it since it is ultimately just the mid point of the synastry? Still, it is a cleaner way of getting more info.

The experience that changed my opinion on it was the synastry being based on Sun-Sun, Venus-Venus, Venus-Mars, and a Jupiter sextile to a stellium as the forces bringing me and the person together.

But what really made the relationship more than a fling and turned into a really important relationship was explained very well by the composite Mercury. Sooo I really advise to treat the composite as an important tool. The theory I follow is that the synastry brings two people together and the composite becomes increasingly important over time.

So in this case the example is a synastry based on attraction but the relationship expanded and solidified due to composite mercury.

And good joke Faith :P I'm ok with being single but I'm hoping once I settle down I'll date a Water Sun, Earth Moon, Scorpio or Air Venus, with an Airy Mars.. that's the dream for me :P

posted December 10, 2014 08:46 PM            

Thanks for the extra insight Koho. Hope you see this. Good luck finding your ideal date! Have you tried using astro.com to find a date (birthdate that is) with criteria that match wish list?

posted December 10, 2014 10:58 PM            

Starting with natals gives a basic rundown of what each want and need. If there's resonance between the two of them, then the synastry will exemplify what's already a natural connexion.

If there's no resonance in the theme of each natal, it's unlikely this is a big love. You're not going to be overstepping your bounds by being honest. Astrology is enough of a science that it's got a standard to follow. We don't just delineate willy-nilly. There's a real basis to follow. The rest becomes artistry and craft, but the general format is scientific enough to give you a foundation no one can refute. So long as you have those basics solidly.

But starting with the natal ensures you're not barking up the wrong tree. The synastry should ultimately be texture and interweaving what's already resonant.

posted December 11, 2014 10:59 AM            

And it's true that I find myself emphasizing the concrete facts of the matter. Numbers don't lie, and degrees show the celestial spheres were verifiably and tangibly in a certain place at the time in question. Or, in the case of progressed charts, it's a fusion of mathematics and principle that's been tested and shown to have diagnostic accuracy...like MRIs have diagnostic accuracy.

posted December 11, 2014 11:06 AM            

not shocked, happy you agree.

"If there's no resonance in the theme of each natal, it's unlikely this is a big love."
That is my observation and experience as well.
´Funny though that we both are at it for about 25 years, isn´t it?

Anyway, people may think that their relationship is based on a beautiful Sun-Venus interaspect or Venus-Mars or even Pluto-something in the synastry, but in my observation in those relationships that have real in-depth-connection, these synastric aspects show up as a continuation or exemplification of resonances that is already in the natal.

Synastry that seems strong on the surface due to the usual suspects aspect-wise (inter-aspects) but lacks this resonance, usually doesn`t lead anywhere but a fling, or if it becomes a relationship (which is very unlikely) it is one where two people seem to operate in different worlds without much interaction.

However it is really rare to even find affairs/ relationships where the synastry is NOT mirroring some natal resonances between people. Usually people simply do not get interested enough in each other, if the hook (natal resonance) is missing.

The big exception seems to be progressed synastry, and that imo can be a real tragedy. Very strong progressed synastr making you think you are perfect for each other (which is blurred thinking anyway, perfect means you are finished in your development and that is just not happening), and then when it passes and leaves you with nothing (if there is no strong natal resonant synastr), and you don´t understand what happened and maybe will chase this elusive ideal you thought you had and can regain, when it was just the reflection of the progressed synastry that will neer come again.

On the other hand the progressed synastry is a GREAT thing to activate something between people who have the strong natal resonance as well.

Also, natal resonance on its own is not enough, you will need interaspect to activate it.
But if the natal mirroring is very mirrorlike, it will come up in the composite anyway, and this is what makes hte composite a wonderful tool to identify core themes/ patterns.

It actually always strikes me odd, how Mr Sag and me have both a natal Venus-Pluto-square, but NO synastric Venus-Pluto-aspect. I am sure that means something, the lack of Venus-Pluto-square in synastry. But of course the square shows up in composite again (it has to, as we have both the same natal aspect at reasonable orb).

Another example are my parents. They do share a synastric DW of Mars-Saturn-conjunction , which of course had to come up in the composite as well.
The natal resonance underlying the Mars-Saturn-theme is an indirect, though strong one.

my Mum has Capricorn on DESC (Venus-Saturn), my Dad has Saturn conjunct ASC (Mars-Saturn)

posted December 11, 2014 11:07 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Faith:

Planets are huge, so people should care where they are hanging out, just like everyone cares about where the sun is and what the moon phase is.

---

Moon phases are SO important!

posted December 11, 2014 11:52 AM            

Example:
My parents
I was sticking to the planetary levels for simplicity, and left out the angles for now.

1. Mirroring

1. Sun/Moon-level
-----------------
° both have Sun in 5th house
° (his moon in 8th house - her Moondispositor is Scorpio)

2. Mercury-level
-----------------
° his mercury quinkunx Pluto - her Mercury is in Scorpio

3. Venus-Mars-level
-------------------
° his Venus in Aquarius - her Venus sextile Uranus
° his Venus trine Mars - her Venus conjunct Mars
° his Mars in Libra - her Mars conjunct Venus
° his Venus opposite Pluto - her Venusdispositor in Scorpio
° his Marsdispositor in Aquarius and his Mars widely square uranus - her Mars sextile Uranus exact

There is a huge Pluto-theme (pertaining to Moon, Mercury and Venus)
and there is a huge Uranus-theme (pertaining to Venus and Mars)

2. Complementing

1. Sun/Moon-level
-------------------
° his Sun conjunct Jupiter - her Moon opposite Jupiter
(° his Moon in 8th house - her Sun in Scorpio)
° his Moon squares Sun - her Sundispositor in Leo

2. Venus/Mars-level
---------------------
° his Venus in Aquarius - her Mars sextile Uranus exact
° his Venus opposite Pluto - her Marsdispositor in Scorpio
° his Marsdispositor in Aquarius - her Venus sextile Uranus

So, the Uranus an Pluto-theme is further reinforced on the complementing level (Pluto pertains to Sun/Moon as well as Venus/Mars, uranus pertains mainly to the Venus/Mars-level)

Additionally there is a bit of a Jupiter and Sun theme on the Sun/Moon-level.

3. synastric reinforcements

Summary of the natal themes with synastric "fulfillment":

A. Venus/Uranus and Mars/Uranus:
her Uranus quinkunx his Venus
her Uranus square his Mars

B. mercury/Pluto
his Pluto square her Mercury widely (5)
her Pluto quinkunx his Mercury (2-3)

C. Moon/Pluto, Sun/Pluto
nothing

D. Venus/Pluto, Mars/Pluto
nothing

E. Sun/Sun, Moon/Sun
his Sun square her Sun
her Sun opposite his Moon

F. Sun/Jupiter, Moon/Jupiter
her Jupiter sextile his Sun exact

The Jupiter, Uranus and Sun theme manifest easily in the interaction (synastric aspects). The Pluto theme does not manifest in an emotional or sexual way (no reinforcing synastric aspects), it will kind of simmer in the background, but it does not disappear either, as it is part of both my parents "personal profiles".
It does expresses itself through communication though (mercury/Pluto-aspects). Which is true, and usually my Father acts out the Mercury-part and my Mum the Pluto-part (he has Virgo-ASC and she has Scorpio Sun and Mercury, so it probably is clear why they "divide" the aspect as they seem to do often).

posted December 12, 2014 07:54 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Faith:
@LeeLoo

Is my 15 Cap sun in your 12H?

And look, we've already exchanged love emoticons , early into the relationship!

But..it could be that your 12H is full of degrees that trine your sun and Virgo planets? Because your experience doesn't match mine...I wouldn't describe it that way...though my husband's sun falls in my 12H (conjunct my Saturn...that makes a big difference.)

---

You bet! Your Sun is 4 deg before my ASC, so in my 12th, but on ASC, a privileged position, baby!

Sending you emoticons now:

things in my 12th may trine my Venus, square my Mars/Pluto stellium sextile my Juno stellium

BUT

I think it is the 12th house! I have a lifelong experience with placements in my 12th house and the planet there brings, depending on what the planet is: a high, spiritualized, otherworldly vibration, strong intimacy and exchanges with that planet, feeling unconditionally loved and returning; being confidantes, sharing secrets; having a world of our own, needing to be alone together a lot.

I was just thinking about that: my set of values excludes cheating or being involved in shady partnerships or accepting to be the other woman or another woman lol - not trying to parade high morals here - but the truth I would never get into something like that because it's a clear NO all over my being about it. And was I was thinking this is probably the reason why I only experienced (so far) the very very good side of the 12th house. This must be the reason.

Once you experience this kind of soul connection and intimacy, it is hard to go back (to a synastry with no 12th house whatsoever)

------------------