posted December 10, 2014 08:17 PM            

I've known this person since 2009. We're both sort of traumatized and are both rather 'peculiar', bookish sorts who grew up in impoverished conditions and hostile homes.

We are both strongly attached to one another, where she's always been incredibly curious about me and I feel benevolant and inspired by her, and there is this powerful feeling of belonging and mutual power between us, and we've constantly been brought back to one another, despite having been bitter enemies at one point (in every case due to either miscommunication between us, or other people lying to us about the other; right now I fear we're going through another 'enemies' phase due to misscommunication and accidents that she thinks where intentional).

There are multiple T-Squares and Grand Trines going on between some major planet's in both our natal charts, many of whihc wither within our 8th, 7th and 5th (and 12th) houses, or are their rulers, though most of hte overlays seem to be concentrated in our fifth houses.

I feel that there is some sort of destiny pushing us together, but alas it all could just be hot air: Which does it look like?

Are there any real connections between us, and if so, what is it supposed to be? I feel we should be together but there are these huge problems that keep cropping up, almost seemingly designed to keep us away from one another.

Are we just really delusional around one another, is there anything here or am I barking up the wrong tree?

Our Chart (I'm Blue, She's Red):

[IMG]http://www.astro.com/cgi/showgif.cgi?lang=e&cd=cf2lfilerjB9eE-u1398289721&gif=astro_61gw_01_04_anonymous_anonymous.72086.63968.gif&res=100&va=&cid=f2lfilerjB9eE-u1398289721[/I MG]

My Natal:

Her Natal:

posted December 10, 2014 08:41 PM            

Unfortunately, there's a lot wrong with your method of chart posting. For one, I could at least figure out how to visit the page if the URL were valid -- but there's no domain, subdomain or directory. The file is hanging out in space, according to the constraints of the IMG tag.

Is this on Flickr or Tinypic or imgur? It has the general structure of a long filename which might be hosted on one of those places.

In a pinch, you can go to astro.com and create charts for free there. Just know that the URL will expire in about 24 hours. If you go that route, be sure to create both natals, a synastry, and composite.

posted December 10, 2014 08:56 PM            

It's probably not the right time.

Think back to your last major SATURN transit, and your first Saturn Return. What were the lessons that you experienced? Do you detect a sort of cycle going on regarding this relationship that keeps replaying the same lessons?

I've noticed, in my personal experience, (and those of many clients) that in relationships which have a cyclical 'BFF versus archenemy' complex that, as you've stated, both have some serious baggage that needs sorting. And -- spoiler alert -- it's not your responsibility to fix hers, nor is it hers to fix yours. Not saying you don't know this already, but it sometimes bears stating.

Some individuals want nothing more than a 'fix-you' relationship. Others desire a partnership -- where the partners are giving about equally to the relationship. Others want to be madly in love, with dangerous obsessions and dramatic scenes. Some require dysfunctional, exchange-based relationships because it mimics their childhood dynamics.

My overall point here is this. Astrology really can't tell you what your relationship is 'supposed' to be. It can point to some of the lessons each of you have first and foremost to tackle, and we may find there is resonance in your natals, showing that both of you can help each other in this regard.

But when you come from pain, abuse, dysfunction, fear, and traumatic situations, there's a natural inclination to form a troubled relationship with a kindred spirit. One that is as equally bonded as it is antagonistic and combative.

Astrology won't help you through that, outside of, perhaps, indicating what some of the more specific issues might be which you'd each need to tackle.

But it starts with you both, each, separately. There's a lot of healing that must be first done on your own before you're ready to heal together. Fortunately, the relationship won't 'work' until you're both to that stage of development. If it hasn't worked yet, then you can safely presume you've got some more self-work to do before you can take that step.

That's my overall advice in these circumstances. It's part from my training and professional experience, but also from the standpoint of one who's put in a LOT of hours in dysfunctional relationships I should have known better weren't going to work, because neither of us were where we needed to be.

posted December 11, 2014 03:03 PM            

She herself is yet to experience hers (her Saturn is 16 Degrees Aquarius in her 9th house), yet things have been horrendous for her lately (really most of her life).

It's just idk since 2009 we've kept bumping into one another and we both seem to feel strongly for one another (though not always positive, especially on her end she seems to veer eccentrically between looking up to me and being extremely empathetic and loyal one moment, and seeing me as Satan on Earth spinning all manner of nefarious and subversive plots the next). But there's seems to always be something or someone trying to seperate us.

Since the pics aren't loading I'll just link.

Syn:

[link]http://www.astro.com/cgi/showgif.cgi?lang=e&cd=cf2lfilerjB9eE-u1398289721&gif=astro_61gw_01_04_anonymous_anonymous.72086.63968.gif&res=100&va=&cid=f2lfilerjB9eE-u1398289721[/ link]

Natal - Mine:

[link]http://www.astro.com/cgi/showgif.cgi?lang=e&cd=cf2lfilerjB9eE-u1398289721&gif=astro_2gw_01_anonymous.71895.47435.gif&res=100&va=&cid=f2lfilerjB9eE-u1398289721[/link]

Natal - Hers'

posted December 11, 2014 03:29 PM            

It's intriguing, and I can't say for sure, since we're dealing with midpoints and calculated points, but her VERTEX is conjunct your ISIS/OSIRIS midpoint. Maybe if there's a planet there in your Draconic charts, that'd be activated. But, for now, it looks like a potential for activation.

I'd definitely say you should study your Draco charts. (Or, if you want, I can look; I've got your data.) Because, tropically speaking, nothing is hitting your natals in regards to the ISIS/OSIRIS. She's got an EXACT conjunction, with a 2H SUN (house of karmic relationships) . I can imagine she'd be a magnet for that conjunction being hit. I'm a little floored that nothing but your NESSUS is anywhere close to it, and that's about a 3º conjunction.

She may not like your NESSUS there, to top it off.

posted December 11, 2014 03:30 PM            

The Mid-Point Composite is really interesting: Beyond it making allot of sense in general terms (espeically in terms of Mercury being indited as party to this huge grand cross between the horizon and Lillith, Mercury and to a significant degree Neptune appear to be recurring culprits in most of the negative aspects of this relationship, as well as in the case of Saturn in seeming to bind us together in the 7th House, and conjuncting Neptune ontop of it) there is some interesting patterns here, namely what appears to be a somewhat intimidating pentagram, the core of which is a massive Grand Trine between the 1st House, Tenth House, and Fifth House, comprising of Chiron, the Moon, and Pluto, Respectively..

posted December 11, 2014 03:37 PM            

So, I'd completely forgotten that her SATURN is in your 8H.

Question.

posted December 11, 2014 04:09 PM            

By the end of her stay I started just staying clear and taking long walks due to the fact that she started getting irritable and paranoid, especially at what seems to be some sort of minor motor-neuron issue I've developed since 2010 that makes me sort of clumsy and have dysnomia, which she took to be intentionally trying to psychologically screw around with her like her parents did.

She left about a week and a half ago, though somewhat hastily and I haven't heard from her since, though another friend of hers sort of has been keeping me in touch and she knows I mean well as she's dealt with her friends' moods herself.

Obviously I've been through this with her before, so it almost seems routine, just that we've finally seen one another face to face (it was all online until then).

I'm just curious though: Is all of this going ot be a chronic thing between us? Am I making a big mistake even thinking about pursuing even a friendship (let alone more), or is this one of those situations where I ought to just use my common sense and let it go and admit once again that there are issues too big for me, no matter how 'destined' I feel.

PS: I'm not quite familiar with Draconic astrology or twin flames, I'm mostly into conventional houses and aspects, lately composite charts have intrigued me, however.

Mine:

Hers:

posted December 11, 2014 04:41 PM            

Here's what I've got. I'd totally missed the SATURN/8H marker the first time around (mea culpa) and figured, if we have a hit, it's going to reflect closely in the Draco, aaaaaaand ...

Bullseye.

She's got a tight conjunction (2º) of nSATURN and drPLUTO. Her drVERTEX is also here. You'll notice that she's got a natal AQU stellium as well -- with MOON and BML. That's an eerie mimic to my Guardian's chart. Given the interaspects here -- the SATURN being described by the drPLUTO, which then hits your drMC (2º) and brings in some tight squares of your DEJANIRA-DEJANIRA (1º) conjunction.

Wow. I don't need much more.

My determination is that she killed you (her SATURN in your 8H) for which the reasons are revealed by drPLUTO/VERTEX=MC.

I'm not seeing this as a cycle of violence. It looks like a one-off, but the both of you (DEJANIRA/DEJANIRA) are feeling the effects of it in the present, with it hitting your nVERTEX (12º SCO). That's an exact conjunction, by the way. SCORPIO is all about barbs, revenge, and reacting in a very intense emotional manner. It's as if you're both operating on this unconscious script that says, 'YOU did this to me!' And, to be sure, it takes two to tango -- but SATURN pulled the trigger, so to speak. Though I'm always intrigued when SATURN has just as much of DEJANIRA marker. Clearly, they're carrying a victimisation energy with them, too. As to WHAT happened -- that takes more work. But.

AN IMPORTANT WARNING.

The energy may still be active.

This means be mindful that the SATURN/8H overlay, 'brought together by death / responsible for the other's death' can still manifest here in other ways. UNLESS your relationship DOES exist due to being brought together as a result of another's death (one interpretation).

I highly suggest studying this. Luckily for you, a lot of the research is here, as I've been investigating, thoroughly, for the past couple of years.

http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum35/HTML/001235.html
http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum35/HTML/001499.html

The most logical thing I've ever been able to fathom would be a fatal accident in which the survivor was responsible. Auto, for example.

But if you've got a 'strange, heavy feeling' surrounding the two of you that's undoubtedly very fated -- that would be why. I feel you're definitely soulmates with some heavy karma to resolve.

posted December 11, 2014 05:19 PM            

I always thought of her in terms of being more active in my universe, more masculine (she is very tomboyish and despises femininity, as that huge grand cross in her chart sort of indicates with her male planets such as her ruler Mercury, Mars and Saturn sort of staring one another down, this was one of the qualities I of course like about her).

There has been this sort of unease sometimes though, given that she seems a bit reckless and impetuous sometimes (naturally this could be just my own Saturn being stared down by her Mars).

She has said of me that she thinks of me as something like a father or older brother at some points and that that was why she came to me for help when she was stranded (even though as far as either of us knew at the time, the other wanted nothing to do with us, which was basically what revealed that we were both lied to about one another by this other person back in 2013), but given the twisted relationship she has with her father that clearly is a problematic comparison (he used to talk down to her and never engaged her intellectually but just treated her like a child, something I've gotten allot myself).

Again, this is why I tend to see this mostly being an issue of her Neptune and my Saturn, and the massive aspects made with them, and it felt near the end of her short stay here that I was becoming a kind of effigy for her to relive her issues with her father.

I can only guess that if this is a karmic thing, that perhaps I was one of her elders and she accidentally did something rash or careless and it resulted in a horrible accident.. But idk.

But it does seem that there is something real here, and not just us projecting desperation and loneliness upon one another?

posted December 11, 2014 07:24 PM            

Now are the two of you capable of clearing this karma and going on to have a productive relationship? That depends entirely upon the two of you. In my case, luckily, we are. It's taken a LOT of work, mutual growth, and learning how to understand the root of fears and suspicions.

I'd say if there's emotional manipulation and mistrust, it's going to be MUCH harder -- impossible -- until those games are dropped. I get that we acquire these tactics as defences, but the trick is to see the other as an ally, not an enemy. When painful karmic debts exist, they must be cleared with genuine love and forgiveness.