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Author Topic:   Why we're not with our soulmates, Twin Flames, or other cherished loves
Aubyanne
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From: Tinseltown, Hollyweird, The Multiverse
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posted December 26, 2014 06:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aubyanne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think I've had a cold-medicine-infused, karmic-book-reading, tPLUTO's approaching the tSUN-VENUS breakthrough.

We chose not to be with our most desired loves. Rather, we were faced with one of the hardest choices one can be asked to make. A sacrifice. Do we come back for another round solo or on the periphery of our beloved? Do we opt for a second chance that places us in the background, or do we forego ever knowing one another at all? Clearly, we bungled things enough to where we can't be centrally located or of primary importance; so do we get the opportunity to love each other at all, even as dear friends, or do we just never meet?

I hypothesise that the disenfranchised or otherwise 'failed' Twin Flame relationships are rooted in karmic debt and previous sacrifice. That we've chosen to return to the third-dimension (Earth) in order to clear these debts and move towards Ascension. But, we had to make the decision to separate in order to do it, and necessarily not reunite here in our observed eigenstate / present lifetime.

What do you think? How might we detect the astrology of this? Would there be repetitive patterns or special configurations to reveal this?

It feels ... legitimate to me. On a level I can't quite articulate, it feels correct. I sense that I had to decide whether we would ever cross paths or not, and I chose here and now in order to be with my stepdaughter, and clear karma with her father, a companion soulmate and karmic partner.

I feel that, in a special soulmate relationship, (my Guardian), that it's our destiny to settle outstanding debts with love, and that intimacy is part of the 'programme'. I feel we'll reap the rewards -- great rewards -- for succeeding.

But with my Twin, it feels different. Our intimacy is ingrained, which can be seen in our tightly bonded composite. It's inherent. But I feel, in order to achieve what must be done, we separated. And clearly karma in these circumstances, when you're so heavily bound to one another -- it's hard. Sometimes torturous. But we may be here to accept it, and learn how to overcome, and make peace, and repay the debts.

Just something I've been contemplating.

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florence
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posted December 26, 2014 07:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for florence     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Have heard theories we return to this dimension or elect to this world because we want to pursue individuality and not oneness.

In a way a twin flame relationship as you describe is an acute experience of both - having a high affinity, bond which underlines a potential for oneness. And, the circumstances in which that potential really stands in relief of, despite and is thwarted by very third dimensional living. Although as you also state very worthy and potentially more noble alternative third dimensional living. Either way, it seems a neat experience of that profound joy and pain. Also am thinking of the back and forth nature of twin relationships, the extreme and swift changes that can occur - again it really is operating between those two modes. It's like trying to operate on a higher dimension but in this dimension but not just in a spiritually higher manner in which at least objectivity can intersect with empathy in a caring and useful manner I.e not be so defined by that very personal and particular bond.

Just thinking out loud. I don't like to believe in karma ever since I read it's a self-fulfilling state. So on the lines of a bigger picture but without that angle, I'd think its something to do with experience life very individually versus very unified and really sifting through many dimensions of love relating to both and being human.

Will have a think about aspects but I don't have enough experience yet. I would think harmonics could show something up relating to this though

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Aubyanne
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From: Tinseltown, Hollyweird, The Multiverse
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posted December 26, 2014 08:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aubyanne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Florence,

I'm curious what you mean by 'self-fulfilling state' in regards to karma?

Personally, I should use it in quotes; for me, time only exists as the now. There's only this very present. Past, present, and future exist simultaneously. So 'karma' is merely events happening elsewhere which have impacted our present (observed eigenstate / timeline) either negatively or positively.

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florence
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posted December 26, 2014 10:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for florence     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Aubyanne:
Florence,

I'm curious what you mean by 'self-fulfilling state' in regards to karma?

Personally, I should use it in quotes; for me, time only exists as the now. There's only this very present. Past, present, and future exist simultaneously. So 'karma' is merely events happening elsewhere which have impacted our present (observed eigenstate / timeline) either negatively or positively.


I did write out an explanation difficult as it is for me to put into words but probably better if I direct you to the thread which made me think about it and it really changed a lot for me.
www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum29/HTML/000250.html

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Aubyanne
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posted December 26, 2014 11:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aubyanne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks!

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Lavender CrystalSwan
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posted December 27, 2014 01:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lavender CrystalSwan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Aubyanne:
How might we detect the astrology of this? Would there be repetitive patterns or special configurations to reveal this?

I've been wondering about this too.
Perhaps Atropos could have something to do with it, since its the "cord cutter" of life or something along those lines.

Our composite Atropos: Taurus 1'33
Composite Amor: Taurus 2'30
Composite Pallas: Taurus 3'18
Composite Compassion: 4'18
Composite Alma: Scorpio 4'07

My natal Juno: Scorpio 0'52 ~ Makes sense. I "cut" off the idea of ever wanting us to be spouses.

His natal Cupido: Scorpio 0'01


---x---


Btw, I find it interesting that my Cancer guy's NN-Klotho are on 0-1 Scorpio.
I guess you could say it was destiny for him to come into my life and help me to fully let go of Virgo guy. Who would have thought LOL.

Also, in my composite with Cancer guy:

Composite Reiki: Taurus 0'31
Composite Osiris: Taurus 4'00

So through my relationship with Cancer guy, I was healed from the crap with Virgo guy? Seems about right.

Its scary how revealing asteroids can be, huh.

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bumblebee
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posted December 27, 2014 02:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bumblebee     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I met the man that I consider a soulmate and love of my life when pr. sun conjunct south node venus conjunction in my natal chart. Yet we haven't been together, at all.

The astrology is his tropical mars opposition my draco moon. So I guess hard aspects between tropical and draco charts shows the impossibility of the relationship here, on the Earth plane.

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Iced8Ace
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posted December 27, 2014 04:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Iced8Ace     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Aubyanne:
Would there be repetitive patterns or special configurations to reveal this?

Well I know three guys with the exact same birthday. I think I posted somewhere about it.

We have saturn conjunct moon double whammy in synastry, square jupiter. Saturn conjunct Sun and Moon in composite square jupiter. Very strong Jupiter in synastry also, if it's considered karmic...

I loved just one guy for quite some time and two replicas showed up almost simultaneously. At this time, my progressed Venus was conjunct progressed Saturn at a very close orb. Their Progressed Suns changed signs, squared my pluto exact (a horrid aspect) while conjunct my Venus exact and conjunct my descendant by 4 degrees. Their progressed Suns are now fairly close to my dsc.

The gist of it is he doesn't know if he can depend on me, and I fail at committing (Saturn in 7th) but we both want to rely on each other; we cannot imagine drifting completely apart, it's like literally losing a bit of our selves.... No doubt due to the Sun-Moon conjunction in composite (with saturn on top) and moon-moon in synastry. Inflated egos, (aqua sun oppose my leo mars exact) timing (Leo Mars opposite my Pisces Venus) and saturn makes it impossible. Very psychic connection too, especially with my first crush; our moods literally fluctuated together without proof of what the other was feeling then. But somehow, I just *knew*.

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HelixID
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posted December 27, 2014 07:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for HelixID     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't know much about Twin Flames and I wouldn't know what to look for in a chart to recognize whether somebody is one or not.
But what I've learned about it so far makes me think that it involves relinquishing one's ego.

This brings me back to Jung (as always ...).
Transcending one's ego is the hardest thing to do for any person since our ego is tied to our own sense of identity. Losing what we believe to be our identity must be a crushing experience that's why it is probably hard to be with one's Twin.

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florence
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posted December 27, 2014 10:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for florence     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by HelixID:
I don't know much about Twin Flames and I wouldn't know what to look for in a chart to recognize whether somebody is one or not.
But what I've learned about it so far makes me think that it involves relinquishing one's ego.

This brings me back to Jung (as always ...).
Transcending one's ego is the hardest thing to do for any person since our ego is tied to our own sense of identity. Losing what we believe to be our identity must be a crushing experience that's why it is probably hard to be with one's Twin.


Yes! I think natally with sun-Chiron I'm made for this experience. Aubyanne, is Chiron doing anything interesting across charts?

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Ceridwen
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posted December 27, 2014 11:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Personally I think it all comes down to choices we make.
And it doesn`t really matter if it is a twinflame, soulmate, karmic mate,companion soul, earthmate or whatever other terms we use.
No two sets of souls or soulpartner have the exact same fate and destiny and purpose.
I do not think that we can make a rather simplistic equation here like twinflames equal "not being able to form a relationship with each other". And we could substitute this term for others as well (soulmates etc.).

However irrespective of the category we put two people in, it would be interesting to see if those pairings who happen to share a bond and strong feelings, but choose to not be in a relationship, will show similiar astrological characteristics. In this I agree.

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Ceridwen
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posted December 27, 2014 11:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bumblebee:

The astrology is his tropical mars opposition my draco moon. So I guess hard aspects between tropical and draco charts shows the impossibility of the relationship here, on the Earth plane.

The opposition from Draco to tropical actually aligns the tropical planet with a South Node characteristics.

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bumblebee
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posted December 27, 2014 11:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bumblebee     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ceridwen:
The opposition from Draco to tropical actually aligns the tropical planet with a South Node characteristics.

Probably

His draco mars conjunct my tropical south node venus conjunction...so mars everywhere. Mars is dispositor for both his tropical and draco sun.

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Aubyanne
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posted December 27, 2014 12:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aubyanne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by HelixID:
I don't know much about Twin Flames and I wouldn't know what to look for in a chart to recognize whether somebody is one or not.
But what I've learned about it so far makes me think that it involves relinquishing one's ego.

This brings me back to Jung (as always ...).
Transcending one's ego is the hardest thing to do for any person since our ego is tied to our own sense of identity. Losing what we believe to be our identity must be a crushing experience that's why it is probably hard to be with one's Twin.


I concur.

About, oh, a year or so past, I was in an odd mood, and chose to try an experiment allegedly performed by Prophet. (I'm very undecided on the veracity of her claims, though I feel she means well. Complicated.) I'd already seen his smile in my smile, completely unbidden, a few months before. So, this night, I wanted to see what happened if I viewed my reflection in the mirror without my glasses, as my eyes have been known to show a bit more then than what's presently 'visible'.

I told my mother of the experience, and, rightly so, she suggested I'd been primed. (Though very metaphysical, she's got enough Virgo to be highly sceptical, too. She also doesn't want him to be my Twin, either. But, over time, we've come to accept what is.)

It's a valid argument. I know better than most how easily we're primed, or how suggestible certain things can be. So, a few nights ago, in a different location, in similar but different lighting, I cleared my mind as usual, closed my eyes, removed my glasses, and looked to my reflection.

My face did not rearrange as before, to show his. Which, I'd thought, was the best means of describing the experience. Instead, his features overlayed mine, as if his image were a transparency laid over my own reflection. It wasn't just a glance, or a glimpse as before; (I was so wholly overwhelmed by that experience, I just started bawling.) I could pause, reflect, and study it. Several seconds. I could replace my glasses, then remove them again -- and the same would take place.

It's STILL stunning, seeing someone's features overlaying your own -- there's NO way it can't be. But this time, I just accepted it. Studied it. Contemplated it.

Oh, there's his chin; there are his eyes. That's his nose. His head and bone structure are a perfect masculine match for my own. We're almost, well, twins.

I began asking myself then, WHY it's such an overwhelming experience; WHY it can steal my breath, and unsettle my balance.

It's the loss of individuality. I've changed A LOT in a year. Or four. Since that powerful dream in December 2012, where I was going to have to accept, in 2013, that I was being connected to a greater thing, and my individuality would be lost, I've been seeing the shift. I've been reacting to it as best as I can, too.

He doesn't frighten me anymore. I'm not terrified by the concept. I DO become annoyed at the faerie-tale happily-ever-after presumption; the belief that they're our perfect romantic partner HERE. That we have to bust our tails in order to BE WITH THEM.

Realising THAT bit of 'bad information' saved my sanity, and allowed me true happiness.

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Ceridwen
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posted December 27, 2014 12:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
His Draco Mars on your tropical Venus-SN, is a NN-connection for him, but a SN one for you.

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bumblebee
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posted December 27, 2014 01:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bumblebee     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ceridwen:
His Draco Mars on your tropical Venus-SN, is a NN-connection for him, but a SN one for you.

Actually I think it's kinda NN connection for me too cus Venus is the NN ruler in my chart.

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Ceridwen
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posted December 27, 2014 01:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The NN-ruler is on your SN?
Then you probably have to revise some things surrounding love, art, beauty (or whatever else Venus rules in your chart).
Like you might hav enot quite gotten it completely the first time around and it is needed to reevaluate these things.

In a way your path forwards into the future leads through some past stuff.

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bumblebee
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posted December 27, 2014 02:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bumblebee     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you Ceridwen!

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Aubyanne
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posted December 27, 2014 03:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aubyanne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What're your thoughts on NNODE-OSIRIS, Ceri? 0°20. My 12H. Natal conjunction.

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peony
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posted December 27, 2014 04:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for peony     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"We chose not to be with our most desired loves. Rather, we were faced with one of the hardest choices one can be asked to make. A sacrifice."

I would agree if by "we" you mean the soul, or ego aligned with soul, and not outer personality alone. And yes, hardest for those of us on the path of love rather than the path of power or wisdom.

The true meaning of sacrifice is "drawing near," and ultimately that means towards union with the Divine, within and between psyche and cosmos.

In a case where a soul's destiny is to achieve a level of spiritual progress or attainment and the other is or would be a hindrance in that destiny, I understand it does happen that the soul makes the choice not to meet that partner in a current lifetime.

Or, in my own life, after having met such a one, I had to recognize that we could not be united this time, and that to do so, would
interfere with either our soul's mending and healing or spiritual progress. As for possible relevant astrological factors at work, I can submit only one example, my own. He and I have a Sun/SN DW (3 and 4 degrees) involving H1 and H7 and H6 and H12. I have Venus in the 12th square Neptune.



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peony
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posted December 27, 2014 05:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for peony     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't know what you mean by "soul mate," or "Twin Flame," but it may or may not be different than one I'd like to cite. The frame of reference regarding this idea I'd like to mention is Christian Gnosticism. According to that view, there are certain "dynamic circumstances, situations, and events" that are a requirement for soul mates to meet in the world. One of these conditions is that the soul being of both partners must have achieved a certain level of evolution and have accomplished the required mending and healing of the soul before they are ready to reunite.

There are three requirements for the meeting and union of soul mates. Both must be incarnated at the same time in male and female form, both must be nearing self-realization, and environmental conditions such as time, place, and circumstances must be conducive to such a reunion.

Also, it is said by the masters of the Tradition that the union of soul mates is essential to the fulfillment of the soul's "ultimate mission" and that this mission cannot be accomplished without one's soul mate.

Soul mates may not meet if the necessary conditions do not exist, or they may meet and not accomplish their mission, in which case, their union is not "perfected."

It's also said that for many lifetimes, one's soul mate may not be incarnated, or if they are, the necessary conditions do not exist for their meeting.

The masters also say that when soul mates do meet and unite, the blessing of such a union extends to others uplifting humanity and the world.

According to the Gnostics, Jesus and Mary Magdalene were soul mates. I would love to see their synastry.

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Ceridwen
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posted December 28, 2014 07:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Auby,

third time in a row dreaming of Mr Sag. ugh, I used to do that all the time a few years back. He was driving me crazy by constantly haunting my dreams, and part of me thinks his nagging persistence as a dreamimage kind of led towards our first meeting. Part of me just wanted to get it over with I suppose.

Anyway, within the dream I was also talking to you about soulmates, twinflames and so on, and for some reason recalling Michael Newton and his book about life between lives and his concept of primary soulmates and how he said (at least that was what I recalled in the dream, I donīt even remember if he really said that. lol) that "most" primary soulmates opt for manifesting a relationship on earth. Most, but there are those, who don`t. He also said not to worry about that because it was a prenatal agreement and so this is just how it is supposed to be, and both souls "signed" it.

Recalling that sort of led into a flashback or enlightening moment, that insight of: "I was the one opting for a little space, for a certain amount of time, to be able to do what has to be done, individually, before..."
(unfortunately I didn`t finish that thought. Before what? )

Not sure if mr Sag is my twinflame, primary soulmate, karmic mate or simply a pain in the butt, but it was quite a shocking moment in that dream for me to realize that it was ME, creating the space between us (unfortunately creating a vacuum is never a good idea, as it always wants to be filled again and hence ignites huge magnetism; I am sure that is not correct scientifically, but I was more speaking metaphorically)

Oh and my Mom was in the dream, and she clearly did not approve of him at all. lol
(I think the words "silly" and "childish" were being uttered )

Funny enough her Moon falls onto his DESC-Vertex-Saturn.
her Mars falls onto his Mars-Jupiter.
her Saturn on his KARMA
her Uranus on his IC and opposing his Moon
her SN and IC falling onto his Mars-Jupiter as well.

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Iced8Ace
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posted December 28, 2014 07:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Iced8Ace     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I finally found the key to explain my weird karmic encounters prior mentioned. I was born with a balsamic moon. 100% describes me, (the accuracy is startling) and also explains my NN in 3rd house. I think if anyone hasn't looked at whether their natal or progressed moon is waxing/waning, they should. I'll leave the info below.

http://www.cafeastrology.com/natal/lunarphases.html

If you were born during the Lunar Cycle of the Balsamic Phase...

This is a very karmic lifetime in which you are meeting all those with which you have unfinished business from the previous seven lifetimes before this one. Therefore, you may encounter many brief, but intense relationships. There is a need for completion, a sense of closure to occur concerning these individuals. This can be confusing at times. It may be helpful to ask the question either to the person or to yourself, "Is there anything I've ever needed to say, do or give to you, let me do it now. If there is anything you've needed to say, do or give to me let's not put it off any longer, let us complete it now." If you cannot finish something in person, you need to ask in meditation to be released, possibly to forgive or to be forgiven. Having a full past of prior lifetimes to reflect upon, you are a born visionary, a natural psychic with a bridge to the future.

You realized at an early age that you were different and may have pretended to be like everyone else to fend off alienation from peers. You may have been described as an unusual child, and may have even been regarded as the black sheep of the family. Others will recognize your special-ness. One of your unique qualities is to be able to take the key meaning of all situations and distill it into its wisdom essence. You can then transfer this awareness and consciousness in others to live beyond this physical life. Your commitment is to the future. By reckoning with the past, you can consciously make a break with it. You sense that something larger than yourself can manifest through you if you make the commitment to allow it to do so. For one to understand you at all one needs to look at what is happening THROUGH you. The transmission of essential knowledge is your purpose.


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