posted January 31, 2015 08:26 PM            

I've placed the first 10 most important from what I see asteroids for starters.

Don't know if aspect lines to all would help? it seemed too much for me I guess

my natal

[IMG]http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/ag53/mynamelen/1cbb9d14-f8 77-4971-ac9e-47da60c8ee29_zpsuo1wtzjd.gif[/IMG]

her natal

[IMG]http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/ag53/mynamelen/d73d72a6-99 32-4f29-904f-9ea07f2030ea_zpsx2ni03gh.gif[/IMG]

synastry

[IMG]http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/ag53/mynamelen/6a076bb5-2c 61-453e-9f49-5413329437ca_zpsqfkb8bqh.gif[/IMG]

composite

[IMG]http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/ag53/mynamelen/0df56c48-c8 e2-4b9d-93a0-d0479c793fa1_zpsauczzcwz.gif[/IMG]

posted January 31, 2015 09:18 PM            

Do you feel your in love? Do you want help in figuring how to save your relationship or are you happy and just want to know how the future looks?

I get the feeling your getting overwhelmed by the stress without much relief and the happiness is few and far between...but that just what I'm feeling and could be totally wrong.

posted January 31, 2015 09:55 PM            

Sun square Moon 9 degree
Her Merc sq. your Sun 1 degree
Her Nep sq. you Sun 4 degree
Her Saturn conjunct your Pluto 0 degree
Her Saturn conjunct your IC 1 degree
Mars sq. Venus 5 degree
Mars inconjunct Venus 1 degree
Her Mer sq. your AC 1 degree

There is so much restriction here....once you respond I'll go into this more deeply. There is other aspects I want to mention.

posted January 31, 2015 09:58 PM            

I'm trying to figure out if it is healthy to keep persuing this, whatever kind of relationship it has become, and try to resolve our problems in a mature manner and risk of being hurt again or end it completely, meaning no contact ever again, despite the love & connection between us?

posted January 31, 2015 10:25 PM            

But I would love to start again my journey for the future happily, since it has been extremely difficult these past years:/ and with her if possible in it

posted January 31, 2015 10:29 PM            

I'm kind of feeling your relationship is based on Nessus/Dejanira control, passion, lust, rage energy. It's sooo potent and hard to let go of once it's been initiated.

You have Nessus cancer@10.38, her Dejanira pisces@7.57
The trine will make the energy between these 2 feel natural and flow easy. It's almost like it's tricking you into thinking it's a positive energy but it's still a destructive energy...yes in time it could become healing but at what cost? How much hurt, anger and pain will you have to endure to get to the healing?
You guys have a lot of karma around this also.

Her Karma taurus@7.44
Your Saturn virgo@9.07

That's a huge reason why it's so hard to let go, but that doesn't mean it's healthy.

Your Chiron taurus@6.54 on her Karma,
I've had this exact aspect before, their karma was to constantly bring up my greatest pain and they did everytime I got near them I got deeply hurt over n over.

Her Jupiter scorp@5.17 opposes your Chiron, Jupiter expands what it touches, expands your deepest wounds. Yes eventually that pain will become so overwhelming it will force healing but all these aspects are overwhelming, it's an intense, extreme and painful way to heal. Kind of like chosing to have surgery without any anesthesia, it's unnecessary pain!

My advice is stay away this time, be distant friends but allow the relationship to fade and try to start building new ones. Look for ones that are passionate, lots of Pluto/Mars. Go for the hard aspects sqaures, oppositions and conjunctions.
I know most ppl don't want those aspect but for now you will need intensity of those aspects in these relationships. You need them so you can begin to believe someone else can wake up passion in you.
You've felt such extreme passion in this relationship you must find intensity with another in a more healthy way that does not include Nessus. If you can believe it these aspects are much more healthy than the ones you've been experiencing!

Nessus will always be a part of who you are, it touches your Chiron and Saturn....but you can be happy without waking up the Nessus beast! It will never feel as exciting or extreme but nobody needs that, it's a drug, stay away from it.

Sorry my reply is so serious but I just don't see how the good could ever outweigh these kind of aspects. Plus I don't even see enough good in your personal planets synastry to outweigh the negative.

posted January 31, 2015 11:03 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by 3l3n:
I see what you mean. I'm glad you took a serious approach.
Need all the insight I can get.
Neptune hits hard some times

---

posted January 31, 2015 11:34 PM            

Thanks so much for your time Gabby!

There is one last thing I would like to ask; Could the transits playing out now in our charts give some idea if this has come close to closure or will there be another connection throughout the year?

posted February 01, 2015 12:16 AM            

Atropos is the third dark aspect of the three fates. Atropos is the cutter of the cord of life and her Roman equivalent is Morta, Italian for death. So very final then! According to Demetra George “Her position in the birth chart shows how and where we bring our fate to it’s inevitable conclusion and how we cut the life thread when we experience endings, loss, closure and death.”

Transit Atropos is cap@4.46....moving into a grand trine with her Karma and your Chiron/Saturn

Your Chiron taurus@6.54
Her Dejanira pisces@7.57
Her Karma taurus@7.44
Your Saturn virgo@9.07
Your Nessus cancer@10.38

posted February 01, 2015 12:50 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gabby:
Her Karma taurus@7.44
Your Saturn virgo@9.07

That's a huge reason why it's so hard to let go, but that doesn't mean it's healthy.

Your Chiron taurus@6.54 on her Karma,
I've had this exact aspect before, their karma was to constantly bring up my greatest pain and they did everytime I got near them I got deeply hurt over n over.

Her Jupiter scorp@5.17 opposes your Chiron, Jupiter expands what it touches, expands your deepest wounds. Yes eventually that pain will become so overwhelming it will force healing but all these aspects are overwhelming, it's an intense, extreme and painful way to heal. Kind of like choosing to have surgery without any anesthesia, it's unnecessary pain!

---

Hoping not to distract, but wanted to ask about something related to the combos you mention, hopefully with some of it helping to enlighten this topic in general, too.

There's a generation with Jupiter very near Chiron in the 70s, so would you consider them naturally prone to expansion of the wounds? (And I think you were one of the lot?) If that, would that lead to possibly healing something "quicker" in some cases?

What about Chiron exactly trine Karma then on top?

posted February 01, 2015 12:59 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Keela:
Hoping not to distract, but wanted to ask about something related to the combos you mention, hopefully with some of it helping to enlighten this topic in general, too.

There's a generation with Jupiter very near Chiron in the 70s, so would you consider them naturally prone to expansion of the wounds? (And I think you were one of the lot?) If that, would that lead to possibly healing something "quicker" in some cases?

What about Chiron exactly trine Karma then on top?

Mostly asking because these then form a synastry Grand trine to someone's NN, with the latter's Chiron also on the other's ASC.
A's Chiron conjunct B's Venus trine A's Karma, B's NN. A's Venus conjunct B's Karma for a mutual Karma-Venus hit. Karma to bring up Venus, but with Chiron strongly somewhere with all that, any suggestions à la the above posts?

---

Yes, i do believe we(your correct my Chiron is 9 degree from Jupiter) we do have the ability to heal more expansively....but we also hurt more expansively and not all of us get over that hump and move into the healing energy of Chiron.

The soft aspects make it easier, but anything with Chiron you can't escape the pain that comes first. The wounding followed by the healing. The Karma connection is just another layer of how the healing will not only emotionally heal the person but karmically heal also. The Chiron/Karma persons healing is part of the Venus/NN's life path....something regarding this process will help the NN person in their life purpose and journey.

Chiron conjunct Venus is going to add the warmth of love in dealing with Chirons pain, that love will be a support system but pain will be a part of the love relationship. There's no way to get around it....except to go though it and get to the healing.

posted February 01, 2015 01:28 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gabby:
Yes, i do believe we (you're correct my Chiron is 9 degree from Jupiter) we do have the ability to heal more expansively....but we also hurt more expansively and not all of us get over that hump and move into the healing energy of Chiron.

The soft aspects make it easier, but anything with Chiron you can't escape the pain that comes first. The wounding followed by the healing. The Karma connection is just another layer of how the healing will not only emotionally heal the person but karmically heal also.

Chiron conjunct Venus is going to add the warmth of love in dealing with Chiron's pain, that love will be a support system but pain will be a part of the love relationship. There's no way to get around it....except to go though it and get to the healing.

Does that answer your question?

---

Oh, anything adds more to ideas or understanding, hence questions every now and then. I haven't (luckily?) seen Chiron-Karma contacts like you personally, for example, but of course there are natal charts with that, so questions arise when you bring up a synastry aspect like that. The whole Chiron trine Karma pattern also includes Chiron trine Sun, being on their "middle" degree, 26-28 Aries-Leo, so Chiron trines both closely. Jupiter's 3 degrees conjunct C.

Venus conj/trine Karma and the trines to B's NN were also of interest if you knew anything about such. I was reluctant to bring a loose 8 degree opposition between A's Saturn and B's Chiron into the aChiron trine bNN patterns, but there is the 70s Saturn square Chiron (and B's Venus) also in it all, so it's probably not that particularly rosy or "un-karmic" in general. Venus in the mix or not. One side has the exact Chiron square Saturn natally and the other one's as if heading toward a square, but the degree difference is 78, so way too wide for one. Not quite making a binovile either.

posted February 01, 2015 01:40 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Keela:
Oh, anything adds more to ideas or understanding, hence questions every now and then. I haven't (luckily?) seen Chiron-Karma contacts like you personally, for example, but of course there are natal charts with that, so questions arise when you bring up a synastry aspect like that. The whole Chiron trine Karma pattern also includes Chiron trine Sun, being on their "middle" degree, 26-28 Aries-Leo, so Chiron trines both closely. Jupiter's 3 degrees conjunct C.

Venus conj/trine Karma and the trines to B's NN were also of interest if you knew anything about such. I was reluctant to bring a loose 8 degree opposition between A's Saturn and B's Chiron into the aChiron trine bNN patterns, but there is the 70s Saturn square Chiron (and B's Venus) also in it all, so it's probably not that particularly rosy or "un-karmic" in general. Venus in the mix or not. One side has the exact Chiron square Saturn natally and the other one's as if heading toward a square, but the degree difference is 78, so way too wide for one. Not quite making a binovile either.

Thank you for discussing aspects, anyway, they sooner or later bring up something useful.

---

posted February 01, 2015 03:36 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gabby:
Saturn square Chiron would be esp hard to work with....your pain and where you need to heal would be getting in the way, causing frustration or hindering your ability to be responsibility or productive. Maybe trying to be productive triggers your deepest wounds.

That would be hard to deal with in life, like a double edge sword. Either your life is falling apart or you are falling apart.

---

Funny thing is, I'm not sure it's ever felt that particularly like that. It's 10H Jupiter-Chiron square 12H Cancer Saturn square the 4H Libra Uranus as a T-square, and yet I'm not sure if that's ever been half as bad as people's ideas of something such seem to be. The chart is full of squares otherwise as well though, a mutable Grand Cross with inner planets+Nep (or 2x T-squares if very nitpicky about Moon square Neptune at 8,5-9 degrees) on top of the above Cardinal T-square.

I think Saturn square Chiron was also the pattern in both the parents' charts, my brother not inheriting that, so whatever it is in the family or legacy, I'm the one dealing with it as the "continuation of the line". Family stuff is probably one way it's manifested if anything, but it's hard to remember examples otherwise.

I wouldn't say I that particularly remember times of "life falling apart" from a personal perspective, but maybe it then looks that way to outsiders, at times. Nor was there any particular "you falling apart" inside in life, aside one bout of slight depression some years ago, but maybe we're talking different things with that phrase. Hence the slight "Well, I'm not sure what all that entails" reaction to the squares, Chiron and more. The main pain I'd remember off-hand would tie to family, but no howling anguish or major pain is in mind most of the time.

There is a transit Uranus-Uranus opposition coming which will conjunct Jupiter and Chiron (and square Saturn) right before the half-return, but until that is hit, don't know if it'll be pain or what. If you have tons of squares already as it is, I guess you get used to whatever they bring.

A Saturn-Chiron page lists: "Having a rigid internal voice of authority. Keeping yourself in line. Not needing to be disciplined because you discipline yourself" among a lot else, and those sides potentially ring bells though. I don't know how much alcohol it takes to make other people lose the CONTROL thoughts inside, but first of all, even when drinking a lot, CONTROL makes sure it remains and you can handle yourself even when quite drunk. Reliable is a good word for some sides of Cancer Saturn, weakest spot for it or not.

http://astrofix.net/2011/10/22/saturnchiron-aspects/

I avoid being tied down in positions of authority, yes, but, well, Uranus as well? Not to mention having such a strong inner sense of what DUTY is that you don't promise yourself to just anything unless you mean to honour it as well. Don't promise things unless you mean to keep what you just committed to. Also having high expectations for leaders or people who "should" be "looked up to" if in positions of power, and knowing you don't qualify (by your standards?) so taking the Dumbledore route of not qualifying for such spots because of experience. Even if said experience was you having failed by your standards when given power in a classroom situation - at age twelve. If you know how easy it is to slip, Saturn can look at such positions with a no and pass. (Not to mention that I'm an introvert and don't want "power" and the chores coming with it especially for that either, but anyway.)

It's not per se chiding yourself excessively if something goes wrong, it's knowing Saturn has taken a heavy responsibility for itself, and maybe the Chiron and Uranus being a bit ****** off with it because while self-picked, the role AT TIMES also turns into:

"And nobody else is doing THIS either, so FFS, do I have to do THIS myself as well? I don't want to do this, don't 'make' or force me to have to deal with this crap of other people's or the world's or everybody's, if nobody else is having anything to do with it either, hmph. But again, if nobody else is doing this (seen as an "important" thing to Saturn), you're again as if slotted into that role or obliged to because SOMEBODY has to do something about it. And everybody else seeming like slackers to dislike for sticking their fingers in their ears and lalalala-ing to supposedly not notice The Thing To Do". Saturn expects people to measure up, to do their thing for the benefit of society and everybody, because that's how things run the best.

I know people don't always do that and that nobody's obligated to do anything and that I personally steer clear of duty-bound positions also because I'm not sure if I'm even in some town for a year or whatever some volunteer-spot might take (Hi, Uranus+ Mutable spots)... but SATURN EXPECTS. SATURN DOES NOT APPROVE OF YOUR LESSER ACTIONS. SATURN FINDS YOU WANTING, WORLD. ( ;) )

posted February 01, 2015 09:55 AM            

This paragraph from what you wrote sounds, to me, like Chiron/Saturn square in play...

posted February 01, 2015 10:56 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gabby:
Transit could and also look at Atropos 273 in your charts, composite and progressed charts.

Atropos is the third dark aspect of the three fates. Atropos is the cutter of the cord of life and her Roman equivalent is Morta, Italian for death. So very final then! According to Demetra George “Her position in the birth chart shows how and where we bring our fate to it’s inevitable conclusion and how we cut the life thread when we experience endings, loss, closure and death.”

Transit Atropos is cap@4.46....moving into a grand trine with her Karma and your Chiron/Saturn

Your Chiron taurus@6.54
Her Dejanira pisces@7.57
Her Karma taurus@7.44
Your Saturn virgo@9.07
Your Nessus cancer@10.38

Maybe this will bring a door to get some official closure to everything, a positive ending!

---

Now that I look at this with a clear mind..
Yes I can see what is going on with Atropos. It just might be the positive ending I was hoping for.

I could never imagine how heavy Chirons energy could play out. Always kind of saw him as a gentle healer

tPluto on Mars in our composite could only bring even harder situations I guess.

This has lifted so much weight off my chest.. I can actually almost breathe again to say the truth

I guess it's time I started dealing with my own difficult aspects first, before anything else comes along and triggers sth again that I cannot handle

I wish I could give sth in exchange here now for all this help..
The least I can do is a big cyber hug! Thanx

posted February 01, 2015 11:04 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by 3l3n:
Now that I look at this with a clear mind..
Yes I can see what is going on with Atropos. It just might be the positive ending I was hoping for.

I could never imagine how heavy Chirons energy could play out. Always kind of saw him as a gentle healer

tPluto on Mars in our composite could only bring even harder situations I guess.

This has lifted so much weight off my chest.. I can actually almost breathe again to say the truth

I guess it's time I started dealing with my own difficult aspects first, before anything else comes along and triggers sth again that I cannot handle

I wish I could give sth in exchange here now for all this help..
The least I can do is a big cyber hug! Thanx

---

posted February 01, 2015 11:47 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gabby:
Keela, excellent post!! Thank you for sharing.

This paragraph from what you wrote sounds, to me, like Chiron/Saturn square in play...

"And nobody else is doing THIS either, so FFS, do I have to do THIS myself as well? I don't want to do this, don't 'make' or force me to have to deal with this crap of other people's or the world's or everybody's, if nobody else is having anything to do with it either, hmph. But again, if nobody else is doing this (seen as an "important" thing to Saturn), you're again as if slotted into that role or obliged to because SOMEBODY has to do something about it. ... ...to supposedly not notice The Thing To Do". Saturn expects people to measure up, to do their thing for the benefit of society and everybody, because that's how things run the best."

---

Yeah, if you write enough usually the gist of things tends to filter out eventually, too. Too much work to go back and edit the superfluous stuff out, of course, what? ;P But sometimes other people appreciate what you might not, and it's a board like this, not some contest to pick the best description for something ever.

More so it's probably also a 10H Chiron square 12H Saturn, with "for the benefit of society and how it runs best" sides. Obviously not equal houses. The solution tends to be not picking up unnecessary chores if "nobody" else is doing whatever grand social thing either, the thing Saturn thought up should be The Done Thing and "This Is How Things Are or Should Go". Even if it made Saturn feel nigh weaselly for failing in possible honourable ways of life or whatever it thinks should pass this time around. Despite living perfectly normally and being much less of a sh*te than how a lot of people seem to act. No idea.

My main take is that Saturn will feel uncomfortable or act the stiff judgemental Stannis Baratheon With A Stick Up His YouKnowWhere (if you know ASOIAF) whatever happens. So you ignore that and do whatever's good instead. If and how possible. Sooner or later Saturn loosens up or relaxes a little bit, wherever it is... but with Chiron and Uranus squaring it it'll get seesawed to *CLUTCH THE PEARLS* over whichever latest moral or disapproving supposed outrage whatever the case. So might as well just go with the flow from one end of a square to another and let Saturn get shocked if it absolutely insists it must be. I'm going to assume it will insist.

-----

Ha at "...if you have many squares it will be hard to decipher the difference to know which is doing what, plus you get used to the stress and it doesn't seem as bad at it really is, you become anesthetized to their effects". What, things are that bad? Pff. It's a dynamic aspect, not a "bad" one, surely. It's a "I will kick your ***** if you tell me one more time 'Squares are bad, mkay?'"

Yes, I realize that it's too much for some people and can cause problems to people internally, including yours truly no doubt, but when are you ever more alive than when burning from whatever passion or drive? As with the original poster or person, too. ;P I've known a water Grand Trine person and people a bit "bland" and content staying all their lives where they were born, going into their parents' business, and can at least rest assured the squares guarantee I'll never be so "lifeless". You may have clashing needs or desires, but at least you never just settle for the first thing that comes along with squares saving you.

Hard to say if it's stress or driving tension. But Saturn will likely be disappointed by people whatever the case, so either you learn to have no expectations from people and take everything as a gift if getting something nice... or let Saturn grumble while everything else gets on with things, only to lead to Saturn coming out of isolation when noticing that (Gasp) it and its Superior opinions or skills may be getting ignored and wasted. Unless it decides to lurk and mutter-grumble some more about not being wanted if ignored, or some other complication, but can't write every option, what?

posted February 01, 2015 11:54 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by 3l3n:
I could never imagine how heavy Chirons energy could play out. Always kind of saw him as a gentle healer

tPluto on Mars in our composite could only bring even harder situations I guess.

I guess it's time I started dealing with my own difficult aspects first, before anything else comes along and triggers sth again that I cannot handle

---

Chiron was immortal but got wounded or poisoned with something causing him terrible pains. As I recall, the way that eventually got dealt with was his taking Prometheus' place in the underworld, to give someone else a release from their daily torture, and to give up his immortality or the thing causing him not to die from the thing causing him all the pain. So even when he finally gives up what causes the pain or suffering, he helps someone else get a release as well?

posted February 01, 2015 11:57 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Keela:

A Saturn-Chiron page lists: "Having a rigid internal voice of authority. Keeping yourself in line. Not needing to be disciplined because you discipline yourself" among a lot else, and those sides potentially ring bells though. I don't know how much alcohol it takes to make other people lose the CONTROL thoughts inside, but first of all, even when drinking a lot, CONTROL makes sure it remains and you can handle yourself even when quite drunk. Reliable is a good word for some sides of Cancer Saturn, weakest spot for it or not.

http://astrofix.net/2011/10/22/saturnchiron-aspects/

I avoid being tied down in positions of authority, yes, but, well, Uranus as well? Not to mention having such a strong inner sense of what DUTY is that you don't promise yourself to just anything unless you mean to honour it as well. Don't promise things unless you mean to keep what you just committed to. Also having high expectations for leaders or people who "should" be "looked up to" if in positions of power, and knowing you don't qualify (by your standards?) so taking the Dumbledore route of not qualifying for such spots because of experience. Even if said experience was you having failed by your standards when given power in a classroom situation - at age twelve. If you know how easy it is to slip, Saturn can look at such positions with a no and pass. (Not to mention that I'm an introvert and don't want "power" and the chores coming with it especially for that either, but anyway.)

It's not per se chiding yourself excessively if something goes wrong, it's knowing Saturn has taken a heavy responsibility for itself, and maybe the Chiron and Uranus being a bit ****** off with it because while self-picked, the role AT TIMES also turns into:

"And nobody else is doing THIS either, so FFS, do I have to do THIS myself as well? I don't want to do this, don't 'make' or force me to have to deal with this crap of other people's or the world's or everybody's, if nobody else is having anything to do with it either, hmph. But again, if nobody else is doing this (seen as an "important" thing to Saturn), you're again as if slotted into that role or obliged to because SOMEBODY has to do something about it. And everybody else seeming like slackers to dislike for sticking their fingers in their ears and lalalala-ing to supposedly not notice The Thing To Do". Saturn expects people to measure up, to do their thing for the benefit of society and everybody, because that's how things run the best.

I know people don't always do that and that nobody's obligated to do anything and that I personally steer clear of duty-bound positions also because I'm not sure if I'm even in some town for a year or whatever some volunteer-spot might take (Hi, Uranus+ Mutable spots)... but SATURN EXPECTS. SATURN DOES NOT APPROVE OF YOUR LESSER ACTIONS. SATURN FINDS YOU WANTING, WORLD. ( )

Pardon my verbosity, but if your examples helped me, maybe my putting something down in words brings something else to mind with someone else.

---

Internal disciplinarian. Exactly. Couldn't have described it better

All of what is said on this link is spot on!

I do have the trine making it a little easier, but the pressure of Saturn is still always felt

posted February 01, 2015 12:16 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Keela:
Chiron was immortal but got wounded or poisoned with something causing him terrible pains. As I recall, the way that eventually got dealt with was his taking Prometheus' place in the underworld, to give someone else a release from their daily torture, and to give up his immortality or the thing causing him not to die from the thing causing him all the pain. So even when he finally gives up what causes the pain or suffering, he helps someone else get a release as well?

To some of the people Chiron mentored he possibly was a gentle "hippie" healer for all we know. In some people's charts maybe it works in gentler ways. Chiron himself nevertheless at some stage was in great pain and enough pain to give up immortality to finally be released from it.

---

Interesting. I had almost forgotten about Chirons story

More or less it looks like he sacrifices himself in return of healing another, and himself in a way also