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Author Topic:   HUGE patterns in composite/Davison?
Keela
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posted February 09, 2015 11:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Keela     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I was going to post this in personal readings but that side says composites go here, so... sorry. Just wanted to ask what you'd say about a composite pattern like the following, or the Davison that resembles it, of course. If you want to post other huge patterns in composite charts here to discuss as well, knock yourselves out.

Anything goes. There are some interesting quindeciles (Venus+Merc to 17 Capricorn, Karma to 17 Pisces near the things there, Ceres quindecile Pluto, NN quindecile both people's SNs) and HUGE patterns, of course, but what it all means or comes out to?

Composite chart:



Davison chart:

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Keela
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posted February 09, 2015 11:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Keela     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Any experiences with Juno conj ASC in composites? Natals have Juno square ASC both ways. I know Aubyanne's just brought up Juno square Nodes for the skipped step of "had to marry him", but this is Ascendants, not the nodes. Not seeing the other as any kind of partner material by nature, but the composite suggests otherwise? Some people note Juno-Saturn having a similar effect as Juno-Jupiter, so what if they're surrounding the Ascendant/AVX like that?

I'm more so looking at the possible dynamics on the whole and the composite building something with the patterns, clashes or fixations and the Kite. What the hell does a Sun-Moon/Chiron-Neptune-Pluto/Uranus kite do, anyway?

Moon (the woman?) seems to take the brunt of the beating, or whatever the saying, being (painfully?) conjunct Chiron and involved in the T-squares. Astrodienst is GRIM on the squares, of course, but what would you say?

Natal Vertexes (Vertices?) are reversed/opposite and square the ASC here, hence the composite position. Uranus is the "skipped step" to Nodes here, Jupiter near the SN (NN's ruler).

Valentine squares Amor, but Valentine-Osiris as a conjoined entity trines both Psyche-Vesta and Juno-ASC? Three of the four traditional asteroids seemed to join something else, Pallas-Eros and Psyche-Vesta and Juno-ASC. I guess you could include Ceres there as well if looking at the trine to Mercury, or square with Venus? Inconjunct Karma.

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Keela
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posted February 09, 2015 11:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Keela     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
T-squares:

Uranus-Pluto square Mars square Moon-Chiron
Uranus-Pluto square Jupiter square Moon-Chiron

Technically also a wider square from Mars to ASC-DC. Does anyone want to count the Mars-Saturn as an effective square still, for a T-square of Saturn-Mars-Moon/Chiron? MOAR PAIN, ANGST, ANYONE? ;P

What are your experiences with composite patterns, T-squares or Kites in particular? Obviously there's something big going on with so much involved, but what or how? The Moon-Pluto will suck things in like a vacuum I'm told, and Mars tends to spark or kick things one way or another, but what to make of it all?

I also forgot to "lament" that it's a pity the Sun is 4 degrees opposite Valentine and not close enough, but I guess Valentine would sextile Moon-Chiron. Again, whatever that'd help I'm not sure just now. "As long as there are aspects, it's going to do something" is my philosophy.

EDIT:

Am I entirely crazy if I kind of LIKE the idea of a Pluto-Jupiter-Moon T-square as a purely theoretical idea? And Uranus-Jupiter-Moon T-square? AND even the "Frell we're hot" Pluto-Mars-Moon T-square? ;P Uranus-Mars-Moon doesn't feel like anything after all that, surely. Or it's all going to blow up into such a huge something with that Jupiter embiggening all the Martian stuff that I don't know what is what. I'm square-blind, help me out.

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Aubyanne
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posted February 09, 2015 04:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aubyanne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Quindeciles in a composite can absolutely drive behaviour. Powerfully.

The SUN is quindecile ALICE (0º) in the composite of my Guardian, costar, and, since very recently, boyfriend. Unsurprising, ALICE is also quindecile MADHATTER/PSYCHE (1º).

Interestingly, the MOON is in a stellium with both ALICE and EROS, so the three are essentially taken together, even if it's ALICE making the quindecile, and EROS is just out of orb of opposing PSYCHE/MADHATTER. (It's around 3º50). But the fact it's the MOON means it greatly influences or denotes the emotional undercurrent of the relationship and its dynamics. And that it does.

SUN quindecile ALICE is something I take to show that, not only were we obsessively drawn into connecting because of a project expressing its themes (not to mention the SUN being trine LEWISCARROLL (0º) and conjunct the NNODE (2º)), but since the start, we've been confronted with a plethora of new circumstances, and how best to navigate such unfamiliar territory.

ALICE in the 4H, though out of orb of the IC, shows how much this situation is at the heart of our dynamics -- not to mention being parallel, though not conjunct, the MOON. (All three are parallel, too -- along with the IC.) Then, quindecile the SUN in the 10H, there's always the question of how 'public' to take it, or in what situations.

Now, you mentioned JUNO, too.

We do have a JUNO-VALENTINE-MERC conjunction in 11H, but it's DESTINN that's rising for us. Though, I do find it intriguing that his JUNO is conjunct (0º) the composite SUN (along with my ISIS).

Now, you're saying 'HUGE patterns'. Could you explain?

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Keela
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posted February 09, 2015 07:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Keela     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Okay, what is going on if one ASC/MC midpoint is conjunct the composite MC and the other is conjunct the comp ASC by a degree? O.o?

Personal and public things mixing and somehow gelling with whatever the interactions between the two people then are? Or is that just how things go more normally with midpoints or such things? I'm not familiar enough with the mathematics, at least for a composite level taken in with regular midpoints, normally just going by the clearly visible visual sides in charts. Seems like it would be logical, but I never noticed it before, nor has my ASC/MC MP been hit in any other composite that I recall. So not some automatic hit.

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Keela
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posted February 09, 2015 07:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Keela     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Aubyanne:
Quindeciles in a composite can absolutely drive behaviour. Powerfully.

SUN quindecile ALICE is something I take to show that, not only were we obsessively drawn into connecting because of a project expressing its themes (not to mention the SUN being trine LEWISCARROLL (0º) and conjunct the NNODE (2º)), but since the start, we've been confronted with a plethora of new circumstances, and how best to navigate such unfamiliar territory.
Now, you mentioned JUNO, too.

Now, you're saying 'HUGE patterns'. Could you explain?


Huge patterns in the sense that not everybody has the big Grand Trines, crosses, Kites, any patterns at all in a composite. Sometimes there are just some separate squares, trines, conjunctions, not the big rotating hoopla stuff. Add on top the fact that here MOST things are in the rotating hoopla energies, or the patterns. Round and round, one way or another. Doesn't have to be like that, but here the opposition/s bring in both the Kite and the T-square. Looks pretty big when "everything" bar maybe Mercury and Venus is in there. I don't know how much more you'd need for huge to pass as a word.

You can bring in quindeciles or some other aspects in repeating patterns between certain asteroids or themes if you like, that's patterns of other sorts, too. I wasn't looking at those with the aspects in mind, but having some theme flare up massively in a composite (presumably otherwise as well then) is big to some others I'm sure.

I also don't know if should be looking at things like that Uranus square Nodes when Sun is on the cusp of the 11th house, or what all or how deep I should look in a composite. Does an Isis trine NN suggest anything on its own, for example, and so on and so forth? Does it matter if the composite Sun is quindecile a natal NN? What matters and how far, and what would YOU say about the composite up there?

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Aubyanne
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posted February 09, 2015 10:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aubyanne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oh. Heh. I guess I've become so used to 'huge' patterns, repeating themes, and configurations that hook into other configurations that I'm half-expecting them.

I get what you mean.

Honestly, though; in most significant relationships, wouldn't we see them?

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Aubyanne
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posted February 10, 2015 01:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aubyanne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Okay, so I'm having a look now, specifically at the composite. Personally, it feels like one of those 'oooooh, SO close!' sort of things. There's a lot that I find is JUST off from doing the thing I want it to do.

Case in point, there could be a bang-on Yod involving the SUN with NNODE and EROS. Except it's a NODE, and they only receive rather than project -- so one of the legs isn't really there. As, you know, there's that whole resonance thing involved in Yods.

Now, the Kite, (involving the SUN) I'll give you. Since they're anchored by MOON/CHIRON, there's obviously a strong spiritual and healing element to it -- not to mention, PLUTO. Tricky thing is, do we go with DESTINN or NEPTUNE? I'd go with DESTINN, honestly, if we're involving the SUN at 12º -- though it does mean we only take the MOON and not CHIRON. If we're taking CHIRON, however, then we get NEPTUNE, keep PLUTO -- but lose the SUN.

So, really, I'd say the Kite is: SUN, MOON, PLUTO, and NEPTUNE (since 5º is a peachy-keen orb for lights and other planets).

The T-Squares are interesting. I've definitely got a few with my boyfriend, and know they're hardly earth-shattering. But they'll certainly create some powerful tension demanding resolution.

They're far less variable, too, thanks to tight orbs not exceeding 2º. MOON-MARS-PLUTO and CHIRON-MARS-PLUTO.

So you've got lunar and Chironic energy repeating.

In the way of GTs, I like the two Earth ones: OSIRIS, PSYCHE, JUNO, and OSIRIS, VESTA, JUNO.

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Keela
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posted February 10, 2015 02:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Keela     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Aubyanne:
Oh. Heh. I guess I've become so used to 'huge' patterns, repeating themes, and configurations that hook into other configurations that I'm half-expecting them.

I get what you mean.

Honestly, though; in most significant relationships, wouldn't we see them?


You're the one who's had what, three of them for past several years already? Not everybody has the luxury personally. If you don't normally see angles or composite stuff line up as above, you end up poking at the thing as an alien object as if you were the proverbial kitten from the latest funny video doing the rounds. If talking the proverbial kitten poking something that's strange to it, most likely then spooked to all hell and back by a noise or the tiniest move or completely nothing at all. Any or all making the kitten puff up and freak, jump 2 metres back in seriously funny looking ways IF you're the outsider used to whatever making the kitten O.O!! aaaaa! as if it was about its life.

So to speak. Your three "Everything is big and significant" options isn't something everyone sees all the time so it is more of an alien object to many people as said. "But what does it dooooo?" happens if faced with composite charts like the above. Juno conjunct composite Ascendant isn't talked about that directly anywhere searched, and the composite T-squares didn't receive any guesses as to their effect even from you. Nobody else has said anything, possibly not read the thread either, so I have no idea if it's as rare a thing to hit other people as it seems to someone who doesn't have big hoopla happen often, or if it's supposedly such a common and done to death thing already that people don't think it worth talking about for that either. If you say it's something that's in "most significant relationships", wouldn't someone else then maybe post theirs as well even if they didn't have direct answers to my composite examples?

And while I can try to google for more on the Kite-pattern in general, sure, the specific one isn't open to me for now since I've never had Kites anywhere else before. T-squares, Grand Crosses and "Magic rectangles" I know from a personal level, but even just a new pattern can throw someone for a bit if it happens on a composite level, etc. It's hard to say if someone with plenty of "rotating hoopla" in their own chart doesn't end up as if wanting big hoopla in synastry and the composites as well because so used to such things, not feeling there's much or enough there if something is more smoothly running instead, or less "visibly striking" if you follow me? Gabby and I discussed squares in natals elsewhere and the kind of energy such people maybe even expect, or radiate, and how something less "intense" maybe doesn't do for the square-people, etc. etc.

All of which still doesn't say if the example's big hoopla T-squares are too much to deal with in most people's eyes, or what. Will you likely crash and burn with Pluto-Mars-Moon alone, let alone the rest on top to make feedback stronger still? What does the fact it's 12H-10H-6H mean for the thing, if anything? Should I look at the 12th house as the secondary 7th house as per Lotis White's talks even if it's a composite here? What about the ASC & MC rulers both being Mercury, in 11th house? And what if the DC-ruler Neptune is in (Scorpio) third house as well, generally under Gemini rulership? DC-ruler Neptune's in Scorpio, Pluto's in Virgo 12th (secondary 7th house) near the ASC, so what does what and how and does anything such matter when it comes to it really?

I can isolate an aspect like Pluto trine Valentine sextile Moon/Chiron and guess there may be something like "big love" or emotional sides going on, transformative grinding gears, but that's one thing out of a ton of other things. What the heck all should you look at, when all of a sudden there is a TON of things in front of you and you sort of know SOME things people look at, but not how people form even semi-coherent pictures from the vast amounts of info?

Even the Pluto trine Valentine guess mostly comes from an age-old IQHunk mention of Pluto conj Valentine being akin the whole Helen of Troy stuff, or love (with jealousy?) ready to cause even wars, something like that, whether his mention was for synastry or not. Pluto conj Juno is a tiny bit over 3 degrees but since they're close and there are other aspects going on as well also feel drawn to consider that valid, and Pluto goes/feels big, of course. I had a friend match with a comp Pluto-conj-ASC and know their relationship had its turmoils, but are all the T-squares too much in people's opinion? What counts, what to weigh, repeat on end.

Unrelatedly, saw your chart somewhere again, so again noted the Venus, Eros + Valentine conjunctions we had. 1-2 degree difference in positions only. Suppose it'd contribute to discussing syn/comp things only/mostly.

I also want to address something about the boards at some stage, but am tired as heck and it's still M. retro. Should leave it until after the 11th if it's held this far as well, since anything is likely to cause wank whatever the case.

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Keela
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posted February 10, 2015 02:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Keela     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Aubyanne:
Okay, so I'm having a look now, specifically at the composite. Personally, it feels like one of those 'oooooh, SO close!' sort of things. There's a lot that I find is JUST off from doing the thing I want it to do.

Case in point, there could be a bang-on Yod involving the SUN with NNODE and EROS. Except it's a NODE, and they only receive rather than project -- so one of the legs isn't really there. As, you know, there's that whole resonance thing involved in Yods.

Now, the Kite, (involving the SUN) I'll give you. Since they're anchored by MOON/CHIRON, there's obviously a strong spiritual and healing element to it -- not to mention, PLUTO.

So, really, I'd say the Kite is: SUN, MOON, PLUTO, and NEPTUNE (since 5º is a peachy-keen orb for lights and other planets).

They're far less variable, too, thanks to tight orbs not exceeding 2º. MOON-MARS-PLUTO and CHIRON-MARS-PLUTO.

So you've got lunar and Chironic energy repeating.

In the way of GTs, I like the two Earth ones: OSIRIS, PSYCHE, JUNO, and OSIRIS, VESTA, JUNO.


Ah, you'd posted something while I was writing my "But what does it dooooo?" thing of overwhelment. I kept the orbs liberal in potentials so thank you for narrowing specifics down for nitty-gritty immediacy sides.

Comp NN has Themis at 11.43 Sag for something. Both people have a (regrettable?) Zeus theme going on in the sense that the man's a NN-Zeus person (with some of his lovers personally relevant as I recall...) and on my part, I have bloody Io conj Sun, Leto conj ASC (conj Alkmene), Leda+Mnemosyne conj NN and I forget what else in Zeus's lovers hitting big spots at my end. I know I've responded to Marc (Antonys) to my Fulvia-NN so if I have that many more of the damn "Worst god ever, gaaah" case's lovers sprinkled all over my chart as well as on the NN, I'm likely susceptible to people with Zeus big at their end. I think my Themis was square his NN-Zeus as well as Io-Sun trine the NN-Zeus?

I never liked Zeus, but yes, I'm double-Leo enough to go "So my options are a famous general and a god? Damn you people, why are you making me pick a god for the partner, dammit?" Woe your partnerial ambitions. ;P Hatshepshut is my third NN-hit with possible partner-charts to look at so I seem to move in the big leagues for things the women on my NN might want.

Ah, yes, that was it. Composite Sun conj cHera 11.23 Cancer trine cZeus 10.43 Scorpio, Uranus in the middle of those two. Comp Themis conj NN thus matters, even if possibly not for a Yod. Yods are another more alien pattern to me personally so thank you for pointing the potential out.

There are some other pairing hits in the composite, too, of course, but I don't remember just now without checking. Ariadne's 12.04 Sco square Bacchus 11.45 R Aquarius so Destinn and Eros seem to get company from those. Dionysus 18.12 Taurus.

Iduna's 27.00 Libra square 26.11 Cancer Brage when I'm an Iduna-Sun and the man'd be Brage antiscia Sun, plus Iduna-Odin conj NN from what I recall. My draconic Brage's 2,5-3 from my NN so there are some mirrored echoes as said.

Shankar conj Tara 21 Can, Siva trine Satie 25.20-41 Cap-Tau. Mahalingam 26.07 Sco opposite Satie. Parvati 11.43 Leo so near enough for a Parv-Siva quindecile? Rudra 16.08 Cap so conj Valentine. Mahakala 2.26 Sco trine Venus, Hara 21.07 Virgo sex Shankar-Tara and square 21.34 Gemini Kaali.

EDITed again to add:

You with your specialties will probably have something to say about Lacrimosa 19.52 Virgo, Lachesis 16.52 Virgo, Atropos 6.20 Leo (conj my ASC) and Klotho 12.16 Gemini. Moira 17.17 Pisces.

Athor 18.18 Leo
Horus 20.33 Leo
Ubasti 12.31 Sag conj NN
Hathor 11.17 Can conj Sun

Echnaton 10.38 Leo
Akhenaten 10.45 Leo
Nofretete 8.18 R Aqua
Hatshepsut 10.17 Aqua
Aigyptios-Akashi 15 Leo

Penelope 17.50 Vir
Ulysses-Odysseus 22.44-47 Leo
Cupido 7.49 Virgo
Aphrodite 5.12 Sag conj IC
Swindle 5.49 Sag
Angel 7.56 Lib
Interkosmos 7.36 Aries
Boda 7.27 Aries
Eurydike 18.06 Virgo
Orpheus 11.53 Leo
Link 18.34 Pis
Anteros 18.37 Tau
Syrinx 11.21 Can
Pan 24.28 Tau

Klio 3.49 Vir
Sappho 2.27 Cap

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Keela
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posted February 14, 2015 10:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Keela     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Alma 12.23 Virgo bump.

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