posted February 16, 2015 04:09 PM            

After reading an article on Arabic Parts and Uranian formulas, I thought it would be interesting to make up some and see how they fit in the charts. After a few formulas, I came up with this one :

Vertex + South Node - Karma

... which would obviously have a very karmic and fated interpretation.

I tried it out in my crush and I's charts, knowing that we our relationship is, without doubt, karmic, and a big part of that karma involves asteroid VALENTINE. We both have that part exactly conjunct our natal VALENTINEs. Out of curiosity, I tried it out in our other charts -- draconics, composites, personas, etc. -- and, strangely enough, we got some extremely significant results.

my n K(arma)F(ormula) conjunct my n VALENTINE, exact
my dr KF sextile his n VALENTINE, exact
my pse KF conjunct his n NORTHNODE, 2
my persona Karma KF square my n NODES, exact
my persona Valentine KF conjunct my n SUN, exact

his n KF conjunct his n VALENTINE, exact
his dr KF conjunct my n VALENTINE, 1
his ple KF conjunct our c SUN/MOON/NORTHNODE, 2
his persona Karma KF square our c ISIS/VALENTINE/AMOR
his persona Valentine KF square my n NODES, exact to the minute (!)

our c KF conjunct our c ISIS/VALENTINE/AMOR, exact
our c dr KF conjunct his n NORTHNODE and opposite my n KARMA, 1 and exact respectively

... and I haven't checked the rest yet.

Would you please be so kind as to help out and contribute to this experiment, by calculating your Karma Formula and plugging it into your charts ? My guess is that formula would act as a second KARMA asteroid. If you have an idea of the karmic debts involved in your relationship, it would be interesting to try out the formula in the corresponding Persona Charts, like I did with the Valentine Personas. Otherwise, I would suggest trying the following :

- natal charts
- draconic charts
- sidereal charts
- prenatal eclipse charts (solar and lunar)
- karma persona charts
- south node persona charts
- vertex persona charts

and the composites of the above.

> To calculate the Karma Formula, fill in the blank spaces here with your Vertex, South Node and Karma placements, in that order.

> Find your Prenatal Solar Eclipse here and your Prenatal Lunar Eclipse here (the last eclipses before your birthdate). When making the eclipse charts on astro.com, remember to enter the correct time and to set the time zone manually to 00:00 GMT / UT, whatever the place of birth.

You are of course welcome to suggest any new formulas of your own.

posted February 16, 2015 04:27 PM            

My Karma point is Cancer 11.09, exactly opposite my 7hr Neptune, which is exactly conjunct his Jupiter (and this exact conjunction in our synastry is of main importance due to the fact that our composite Sun is 12 Capricorn as well...)

For him: Karma part exactly opposes his own Karma (Pisces 14), which is on my ASC (Virgo 13), and his Karma point thus conjucts my Karma exact, my DSC by 1, and his own Venus exact!!!! (I cant not mention that my draco Saturn also gives into the equation and conjuncts all of the above exact)

Definitely karmic relationship.

posted February 16, 2015 04:50 PM            

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I have only time now for basic synastric charts.He was my husband in our past life.

My Karma point is Cancer 11.09, exactly opposite my 7hr Neptune, which is exactly conjunct his Jupiter (and this exact conjunction in our synastry is of main importance due to the fact that our composite Sun is 12 Capricorn as well...)

For him: Karma part exactly opposes his own Karma (Pisces 14), which is on my ASC (Virgo 13), and his Karma point thus conjucts my Karma exact, my DSC by 1, and his own Venus exact!!!! (I cant not mention that my draco Saturn also gives into the equation and conjuncts all of the above exact)

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Wow, I'm impressed ! This is one karmic relationship, even without the KF. I wonder what are the other main themes of your relationship ? Maybe you could look that up, too. I'm looking forward to it !

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There is something to that formula! Good job!

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posted February 16, 2015 05:02 PM            

I had to laugh, I know three men with 13 degree Aqua Suns opposite my mars exact who have the same birthdays. Definitely have some karma there.

Our synastry has Moon conjunct Saturn dw
Composite has Sun-Moon conjunction on Saturn.

My part of fate/karma according to that site is 14.20 Leo. Lol, I will never be able to shake them off.

posted February 16, 2015 08:00 PM            

I created mounds of my own Arabic Parts in my teens; I can't even recall how many. Hundreds, easily.

Unfortunately, I also can't member exactly when, but at some point in my early twenties, a mentor explained to me in depth, the basis of the Lots, why they're calculated as they are, what the basis is, and the structure of the formulae.

Needless to say, of the hundreds I created, only a handful survived the rigorous testing. But that's not to say it can't be done -- it just has to be done properly.

So, let's examine the structure of an Arabic Part / Lot. We know it has three parts, but they're less mix-and-match than you'd think. The Personal Point, Significator, and Trigger all have a VERY important mathematical relationship, which means those have to first be satisfied, if we're going to create one.

The immediate problem with your formula is that it uses b]two[/b] calculated points. Now, I'm quoting from memory here, but the gist is that the part has to logically follow, as well as adhere to certain rules.

VERTEX is okay for a Personal Point, as it follows from the logic of frequently having the ASC in this position. The SNODE is where it gets tricky. This is an axis. Separating out the Dragon's Tail (Ketu) from the Dragon's Head (Rahu) is ... not advised.

I've been rather bold in suggesting asteroids can be viable triggers. But I remain in the minority.

So, let's think about how this picture 'translates', aside from the mathematical complications.

FATE + KARMA - KARMA

Hmm. So, we really just end up with fate. It becomes a fate point, which is already this: ASC + SATURN - SUN. (And can alternately be taken as POKarma.) Not sure what we're gaining there.

Even if we stretch it out and go with FATE (personal point) + PAST LIVES (significator) - KARMA (trigger), if we remove 'karma' from our 'past lives' -- isn't that kind of like taking the meat from the bone? It's the outstanding karma we're here to resolve.

All in all, I'd say it's a good first attempt, but I'd go back to the drawing board with a little more attention to how the structure works together, and focus upon the mathematical relationship to these points.

Yes, the SNODE is not the same value (necessarily) as KARMA (3811), and you aren't really just subtracting one value from another. But you are subtracting one karmic value from another.

That doesn't logically follow for me.

Consider something I've been playing with, as it's proved rather insistent in certain composites of very karmic soul connexions. DSC, VERTEX, CHIRON. (I know, I know, it's an axis again. You really shouldn't take one point of an axis, but, alas, more tend to the VERTEX than the ANTIVERTEX.)

It's typically the following midpoint picture:

VERTEX/CHIRON=DSC
DSC/VERTEX=CHIRON

They literally translate into:

Fated healing = relationship
fated relationship = healing

Naturally, I thought I might begin exploring them in greater depth, as so many karmic relationships are in this category of fated healing, or fated relationship.

Most interesting to me is how the two can operate ENTIRELY differently, so we'd need to be very mindful of which is the significator and trigger.

I think 'fated relationship (DSC/VERTEX) is healing (CHIRON)' is a wonderful notion. So, we'd need to be sure to keep VERTEX and DSC together as a single entity. This is doable. Tricky, but possible.

VERTEX (PP) + DSC (the 7C is a popular significator, so that's fine)) - CHIRON (trigger). CHIRON is a curious, but sound trigger.

Healing can very well be what hangs in the balance; will we sort out our issues? Can we reach a level of health and healing which allows us to relate and clear karma?

So, what could we learn from VERTEX + DSC - CHIRON? What might we expect to see?

Perhaps, significant points of another's chart, including Draco and Sidereal points, might conjoin with this energy. Otherwise, its sign and house placement could reveal much to us in the way of our karmic / fated relationships: our perspective of them, the nature they're likely to take, where we might find them, and depending upon aspect patterns or configurations, what they might yield for us.

posted February 16, 2015 08:58 PM            

My Karma Formula: 29 Cancer

posted February 16, 2015 09:45 PM            

Okay, I understand. But... What if it works ?... What if that formula of mine is neither an Arabic Part nor an Uranian formula, and it actually works, just listed under another category ? We can create a new kind of parts, as long as they work. Hey, we can even change the calculation if it works that way ! I've started on so many different parts, now I just need charts and cases to try them out.

Also, why in the world do our KFs fall exactly on our natal VALENTINEs, why are there so many connections and why does it all seem to fit so perfectly ?

posted February 16, 2015 09:47 PM            

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Originally posted by Aubyanne:
So, VERTEX + SNODE - KARMA is 13� TAU 47. Now, 17�-20� TAU, and we'd be in business, but most of these aspects are to be partile -- and I'm uncomfortable going beyond 1�30 for APs.

Nada here. 13� TAU is just not a sensitive point for me.

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posted February 16, 2015 09:48 PM            

It came to 25' Scorpio, which is actually the same as my Part of Karma. It conjuncts my hubby's Sun.

My s.o. Part came to 17' Aries which is exactly his Sun, his Saturn , his Nodes and my Venus .

posted February 16, 2015 10:04 PM            

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Originally posted by Aubyanne:
So, VERTEX + SNODE - KARMA is 13� TAU 47. Now, 17�-20� TAU, and we'd be in business, but most of these aspects are to be partile -- and I'm uncomfortable going beyond 1�30 for APs.

Nada here. 13� TAU is just not a sensitive point for me.

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Bingo ! It opposes your MERCURY and UNION, both exact. It squares your VERTEX axis (!) and 6th / 12th house cusp axis, if I have your correct TOB. In your Draconic chart, it's conjunct SATURN exact and ATLANTIS at a wider orb. (You've had past lives in Atlantis ?) In your PLE, it squares ISIS by 2 degrees. In your Draconic PSE, it squares VENUS exact (btw, AMOR is at 18 LEO and VERTEX at 20 AQU ; might be interesting for you).

Tell me if you need me to remove any of your placements from here.

posted February 16, 2015 10:07 PM            

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Originally posted by Aubyanne :
Heh. You remind me SO much of myself at that age, Peluches. Really and truly. It sometimes astounds me. I have to shake my head and smile a little.

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Hahahaha, that is so sweet.

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VERTEX + DSC - CHIRON

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posted February 16, 2015 10:24 PM            

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Originally posted by Peluches:
Thank you for your explanation and contribution, Auby.

Okay, I understand. But... What if it works ?... What if that formula of mine is neither an Arabic Part nor an Uranian formula, and it actually works, just listed under another category ? We can create a new kind of parts, as long as they work. Hey, we can even change the calculation if it works that way ! I've started on so many different parts, now I just need charts and cases to try them out.

Also, why in the world do our KFs fall exactly on our natal VALENTINEs, why are there so many connections and why does it all seem to fit so perfectly ?

Anyway. Thank you for suggesting the new part ! I'm going to try it out and see what it touches.

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Random statistical luck.

Trust me. The longer you do this, the more it happens.

Look at it this way.

You created this formula for you. You're the one with the burning question of 'am I wasting my time with this relationship or not?' and seeking an answer to that question. And, you've gotten your answer.

VALENTINE.

Okay, so if you both have VALENTINE in the same mathematical relationship, there might be a harmonic resonance. Enough to say, 'okay, yes, there's a connexion between these two charts on a deeper level.'

But you already knew that. You just wanted confirmation.

Now, look at the confirmation you got. It's a karmic relationship. Some of these are building, and growing. Others are resolving, and leaving.

Take a look at the video posted in the thread on 'Karmic Relationships' (it's in IA).

Incidentally, you're batting 4 out of 5 here. That's only an 80% confidence, with a sample size of less than 10.

Now, as to what this IS, I'm going to suggest you learn to walk before you start running. There's a reason these things have great longevity, and you've got to award them the respect they deserve before going, 'what about something else?' I appreciate your enterprising spirit -- but sloooooooooooow doooooooooooown there, girl.

Oh, I was literally just riffing, in regards to using VERTEX, CHIRON, and DSC. I've not even given that a go.

As to 'karmic points' -- I am swimming in them. I don't NEED anymore 'karmic points'!

I've got KARMA, DESTINN, the NODES, VERTICES, PEs, PoKARMA, the Sidereal, and Draconics. They all hit.

posted February 16, 2015 10:34 PM            

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Originally posted by Peluches:
Bingo ! It opposes your MERCURY and UNION, both exact. It squares your VERTEX axis (!) and 6th / 12th house cusp axis, if I have your correct TOB. In your Draconic chart, it's conjunct SATURN exact and ATLANTIS at a wider orb. (You've had past lives in Atlantis ?) In your PLE, it squares ISIS by 2 degrees. In your Draconic PSE, it squares VENUS exact (btw, AMOR is at 18 LEO and VERTEX at 20 AQU ; might be interesting for you).

Tell me if you need me to remove any of your placements from here.

[b]Edit : hey, we've got the same PSEs at 18 LEO ! [/B]

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Well, yeah, I knew it's opposite my MERC, but that's 1º. My VERTICES are 0º AQU/LEO. It's also 1º conjunct my drSATURN, which has a stronger relationship (I feel, personally) to my nCHIRON, despite it being wide (3º).

Perhaps what I'm saying here, as an astrologer, is that I'm not finding the utility for it? Without seeing the logic behind it, and not having tested it, I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do with it. So far, everything in my toolbox has been extremely useful to me.

I did, finally, create a new system, after about 5 years of hashing it out on the drawing board. It's predominantly a karmic technique, as it uses Vedic methods in a western (Tropical) framework. First, it just blew my mind because of how insanely spot on it was -- much like the investigating PSEs, (which STILL blow my mind). So when I considered its basis -- looking at karma (fate) within the context of the present (observed timeline, eigenstate, current lifetime) -- I understood why it would hit so dead-on, and it did.

If our PSEs are both at 18º LEO, that explains a LOT of why I'm always 'herding' you a bit here and there. Similar development path; common evolutionary direction.

posted February 16, 2015 10:39 PM            

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Originally posted by ail221:
Tried both

Vertex+Snode-Karma & Vertex+DSC-Chiron results yield the same thing off by one degrees and neither are significant in my natal/draconic/sidereal chart. Check other charts I suppose.

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Do they come out to be the same formula in your chart? Like CHIRON and KARMA conjunct, or SNODE and the DSC are the same? Etc.?

posted February 16, 2015 10:41 PM            

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Originally posted by Peluches:
That falls at 19 GEM 33', another karmic point in our charts ! Wow

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posted February 16, 2015 10:59 PM            

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Originally posted by Peluches:
Well, actually, what I really want to know is what we are to each other, what is the best way to act for each other in this life. I know now that it's a karmic relationship. I even know what is the karma is about. First, Venus and Valentine (unrequited part and sacrifice I'm willing to do), on both sides but more karmic debts on mine ; Pallas and Mercury, especially Mercury, because we are two silent Scorpio Mercuries and we tend to communicate with our minds -- I need to speak up more in general, I'm aware of that ; Mars and Uranus on his side showing his homosexuality, going together with Venus and Valentine -- part of the reason behind the love karma ; and, Osiris, indicating (perhaps) death, not only for the sacrifice (Valentine), but also because I had some issues with suicide two years ago (yes, that was stupid). I'll have to check this and see if the date coincides with some significant transit involving Osiris though.

In relation with the 'Node confusion' thread, I have come to the conclusion that we have had a past life together in Atlantis and we lived a very nice relationship together. South Node conjunct North Node, almost everywhere I look, makes me think that our goal (North Node) is to have the same type of relationship we had previously (South Node). We need to -- I need to especially ; he can't know about all this, the poor thing -- make this relationship better so that it becomes as pleasant as it was previously.

But, I can't be 100% sure that I know everything already about it and that I have the answers to my questions, so, that's why I am trying out new things. Hope this makes sense.

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posted February 16, 2015 11:01 PM            

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Originally posted by Aubyanne:
BTW, am I correctly reading that you have a composite stellium of SUN-MOON-NNODE?

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