posted March 23, 2015 10:17 AM            

I've always looked primarily at the 8th (for the "core" sexual profile/energy/needs of a person) and added the 5th to see how someone goes after a romantic/sexual interest (but not what they need on a deep level, in this area)+ their needs for romance and creativity (and other things the 5th stands for, of course) and I also add the 2nd house energy, in fact, I am primarily looking at 8th + 2nd (the axis) for someone's erotic profile and needs.

But I see many astrologers first check the 5th for a sexual profile, so??

For those who do that, why the 5th?

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I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

posted March 23, 2015 03:21 PM            

however 8th house is about how you SHARE (sexual) intimacy with someone else.

posted March 23, 2015 03:28 PM            

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I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

posted March 23, 2015 03:36 PM            

Your sexual identity is formed before a sex partner is even present (though of course sexual relationships modify this). It`s only in the 7th house that other people become really present, and the 8th house is about the deepening of these relationships.

The 5th house is the substance and expression of one`s emotional identity (including sexual), being the 2nd house of the emotional quadrant.

In the 8th house it is the manifestation and expression within relationships (especially deep emotional ones or sexual).

posted March 23, 2015 03:40 PM            

And the placements in this houses ar enot nearly enough to be able to tell anything about it.

What signs are these planets in?
Are they conjunct?
What are their other aspects?
What is the ruler of these houses doing?
How are those connected to the 2nd, 11th and 1st house, Sun, Moon, Venus and Mars?

you have to take a lot into consideration.

posted March 23, 2015 03:50 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
http://www.themetaarts.com/archives/200310/basilfearington.html

Your sexual identity is formed before a sex partner is even present (though of course sexual relationships modify this). It`s only in the 7th house that other people become really present, and the 8th house is about the deepening of these relationships.

The 5th house is the substance and expression of one`s emotional identity (including sexual), being the 2nd house of the emotional quadrant.

In the 8th house it is the manifestation and expression within relationships (especially deep emotional ones or sexual).

BTW I donīconsider Scorpio the sign of sex. But of emotional intimacy and depth, which just very often expresses on a sexual level.

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I'm not sure I agree with this, but I very much liked how you connected the issue with moving through the zodiacal circle.

I have to disagree with the author though, sex has never been considered recreational before modern times (sexual liberation), it has always been connected with procreation, hence the connection with the 5th house. Scorpio, to my knowledge, has always governed the genitals, so it makes sense for Scorpio's house to rule sex. I think the shift to the 8th house is not because of modern psychology, but it reflects finally accepting sex is not connected to procreation (only) It's a result of liberating sex from procreation (the old view on sex - 5th house) and make it an independent (also intimistic, psychological and a potential sharing/emotional connection) "activity"

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I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

posted March 23, 2015 04:04 PM            

But putting that aside I think we will simply have to disagree on this.
For me 5th house is the core of one`s sexual-emotional identity, which is the ground on which the 8th house shared sexual intimacy can grow. It`s sort of a development (chronologically).
And usually the patterns will overlap anyway.

Like in my case

ruler of 5th house in Capricorn squaring Pluto, ruler of 11th and 12th house (already highlighting the tension between giving and receiving love, between expressing feelings and feeling loveable, made even more intense by Pluto`s involvement).

So it seems just a logical step that my Saturn would end up in detriment in Cancer retrograde in the 8th house, quinkunx its ruler in 2nd house.

That tension I mentioned would of course express in terms of sexual intimacy WITH someone else as well, and here there is the symbol of fear and insecurity placed right there (of course only the negative expression of Saturn, there could be a more positie one as well).
Saturn ruling the 2nd house and Venus showing that ultimately it is connected to feelings of validity or the lack of those.

The positive about this placement is though that I am apparently inclined to work on myself, adressing those issues and get a handle on them.
Actually that is a good keyword. Saturn is the handle of my bucket formation in my chart anyway. lol

But the thing is that Saturnian seriousness or blockage is just a natural development of the innate tension between expressing (sexual) feelings and an apparent isssue surrounding feelings of insecurity.

How culd I be giving anything of myself to others, if I donīt even believe I am "enough"?

posted March 23, 2015 04:05 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:

I have to disagree with the author though, sex has never been considered recreational before modern times

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Yes, actually it has. Just not with the wife.

posted March 23, 2015 04:39 PM            

There was "recreational" sex, but only with prostitutes, which makes it a power (money)-related issue and it wasn't mainstream (involving both genders equally). Of course, there has always been an interest in other meanings of sex, rather than procreation, but never mainstream as in modern times, apart from some local "sex magic" customs all over the world (but always in the context of matrimony, more or less).

It's interesting you find explanations for what you call your basic profile in this respect in your 5th, and not your Moon (which I believe rules your 8th??) and of course, Saturn there is quite an emblem.

I do have a very strong connection, and hard to distinguish blending in my chart as well, since both 5th and 8th are ruled by Mercury, and Mercury is in the 8th conj Pluto and Mars so... (still, saying it one more time, making the 5th as primary sexual house makes no sense to me, it seems to be the outdated view and actually I have to thank you for this article, it clarifies things a lot as to why some astrologers consider the 5th as a sexual house)

When it comes to relationships, I connect the 5th to: emotionally going out of the family circle and desiring an "alter". Which leads to the act of infatuation (for a non-familiar creature) and wanting to "romance/seduce" someone else, to feel loved and love and to experience romance (Leo). It's very much similar (as energy) to that period in your teenage years (for some earlier, for example I first fell in love in kindergarten and kept going ever since ) when you fall in love for the first time, when you discover infatuation.

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I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

posted March 24, 2015 09:28 AM            

I am thinking of the peregrine Aqua Moon in the 2nd (body house) ruling the 8th and the "mutual reception" with 8th house Saturn (insecurity, but also "you shall not pass!"; beginning of the 8th, practically guarding it) and how this Moon could feel like "not fitting in", maybe even alienated from the body at times. Plus in combination with that Saturn, so hard on himself (also, 2nd ruler). That would be the downside of it.

And I think, on top of it, that this the Sabian for the Moon??

16-17 deg Aquarius

A Watchdog Stands Guard, Protecting His Master And His Possessions

Personally, I would see this is the "core" of the profile.

The upside is what you say, about working on oneself, and the fact that Saturn ALWAYS gets better with time, and there is a "timing" for Saturn to experience the "real thing", it's a manifesting planet. With that Moon activated, it would be a Saturn open to expansion and experimentation with the right one

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I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

posted March 24, 2015 09:34 AM            

the Sabian for my Moon is this one though:

" AT MASQUERADE, THE LAST MAN UNMASKS, URGED BY THE GIRLS.

The introvert's desire to protect himself from social judgment. Clinging to self-valuation. Conservation of experience."

Quite fitting I think.

Nevertheless, about the sexual profile, I don`t quite see the contradiction in what you wrote in the post before, (of course the 5th house is also the house of infatuation), but to me it is just clear that before you can be sexual WITH someone (8th house), you already have an individual sexual identity (5th house).

Hence both houses need to be combined with each other to arrive at a complete description of the sexual profile.

posted March 24, 2015 09:40 AM            

I agree with you about combining them, absolutely.

posted March 24, 2015 04:19 PM            

My Mercury is in Virgo in the 7th -- just barely (it misses the 8th house by minutes). I like dirty talk ...