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Author Topic:   A sense of obligation?
Petronilla
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posted July 25, 2015 02:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Petronilla     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Most of the online information concerning "karmic" aspects and so on and so forth approaches the subject from the point of view of lovers - it's frustratingly difficult to find anything else.

What I'm curious about is, have you ever experienced something you'd term a "karmic" connection with somebody who isn't a love interest, or even a family member or a friend?

I don't necessarily mean the actual concept of karma here - I don't really believe in it myself. But I do mean an inexplicable sense of connection and, especially, *obligation*. The feeling that you "owe" something to somebody you don't even know properly, or at all.

In my own case, there is somebody I have never met and who I believe to be on the receiving end of great injustice. There's absolutely nothing I can do to help him. On a global scale, the injustice matters little, but for some reason, the moment I saw him I felt a powerful urge to save him, though I feel equally powerless to do so. I won't go into detail here because it's rather pointless, but basically we're talking about the sort of stuff that even thinking about the whole thing feels like hitting my head against a wall repeatedly. So I force myself to forget about the whole thing, much as we force ourselves to forget about the million other sad and unjust things we read about in the newspapers, every single day. There's only so much ordinary people can do in this world.

But every time I think about it at all, some kind of an *obsessive* feeling to save him raises its head. And the predominant feeling is that I would owe it to him, somehow. I know I can't do it, so it almost feels like I'm failing at something I was supposed to do.

I don't have his birth time - only the date - but I'm curious. I wonder what I should be looking for, in the synastry? Definitely lots of Chiron here, from both sides. Lots of Pluto. His Uranus and Neptune are both on my South Node (2 degrees). His Pallas and True Lilith on my Descendant (1 and 2 degrees, respectively).

Strangely, there are also lots of so-called "sexual" aspects (Mars-Venus, Venus-Pluto, Mars-Moon; several exact Juno aspects; his Priapus exactly on my Ascendant, mine on his Valentine and Union; and so on) though there's nothing sexual about this feeling. He's much younger than I am, and I feel protective and sisterly towards this stranger.

But something about him definitely triggers some kind of a "saviour complex" in me - and, like I said, a sense of owing something - and I'd be curious to know why.

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Petronilla
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posted July 25, 2015 06:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Petronilla     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wow. I just realised something and had to come and add it here.

There's another person about whom I feel in a remarkably similar way - only this one is a historical figure, the subject of my (sometimes obsessive) research. He's been dead for centuries, so the only part I can "save" about him is his reputation. Let's call him Historical Figure.

I've looked at my synastry with Historical Figure, and with him I have a Mystic Square: with an opposition of Mars-Mars (exact) and his Pluto to my Sun/Mercury (1 degree). His Saturn is also exactly on my Saturn/Pallas conjunction, though we're separated by centuries...

Now, I compared my synastry charts with the Historical Figure and the (let's call him) Lost Cause of the original post. At first sight, there doesn't seem to be anything much in common. The only aspect that is exactly the same, it seems to me, is that both of them have their Priapus conjunct my Ascendant. There's also an exact Juno-Chiron trine in both charts, but in Historical Figure's case, I'm the Chiron; in Lost Cause's, I'm the Juno.

But then I looked at the aspect lines and was startled to see that both charts look partly EXACTLY THE SAME. And that's because Historical Figure and Lost Cause have planets in exactly the same places - only they're not the same planets. So we have (with orbs of 0-3):

HF's Uranus/LC's Sun square my Pluto and trine my Uranus
HF's Juno/LC's Mars trine my Moon/Chiron, square my BML and sextile my Ceres
HF's Jupiter/LC's Saturn trine my Saturn/Pallas, sextile my Neptune and conjunct my Angel

That's all I could notice for now (there may be more), but still - I find that terribly fascinating. It might mean nothing, but surely it's a strange coincidence that those aspects are in exactly the same places? Do you think the reason I feel a similar drive to defend both of these men derives from some of these shared aspects?

Of course, there's a big difference:

In the case of Lost Cause, I feel defeated: there's nothing I can do.

In the case of Historical Figure, I feel energised and determined: this research is my life's work, and I feel like there's everything I can do.

Very strange, but frightfully interesting.

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Petronilla
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posted July 26, 2015 07:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Petronilla     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sorry to keep harping on this, but I had to correct I meant Mystic Rectangle, of course, instead of 'Mystic Square' (whatever that is )... but I'm sure you guessed as much.

I also thought I'd post pictures of the charts. Keep in mind that I don't know the birth time of the Lost Cause (so I put it as 12:00), and the Historical Figure's is approximate (his Ascendant is known, but I don't know anything more specific).

The assortment of additional objects is a bit random, as I always have trouble with Astro.com. It never shows everything at the same time. (EDIT: I managed to upload other, clearer versions of the chart.)

Synastry with Historical Figure:

Synastry with Lost Cause:

I'd be most grateful for any opinions, because I'm very curious about this. I'm guessing it might have something to do with my Saturn/Pallas conjunction in Libra. Or not. I'm puzzled.

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Aubyanne
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posted July 26, 2015 08:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aubyanne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ohhh, I follow.

Unfortunately, all I have at the moment is a bit of empathy; the usual, 'I can relate!' Although more will follow, I assure you.

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Aubyanne
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posted July 26, 2015 08:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aubyanne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
And while it's not the same per se, it is similar. Here are our synastries, along with the last being their synastry.

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PixieJane
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posted July 26, 2015 11:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm not sure. I can't say I felt obligated, but I have felt compelled to. Some people would say that my conscience or compassion obligated me to, however, but having developed my own personal philosophy on the nature of obligation I wouldn't. So it's hard whether to say it applies or not.

When I was 15 I was very helpful to an old man we called Pappy. Unlike most adult homeless he couldn't go to services because he was wanted by the law (violating parole), and he was an obvious junkie, so he was in the same boat as us kids (we couldn't get services either). When I got hold of food and other essentials I tried to make sure he was included (as he shared one of our squats, that is to say an abandoned building) and did so until he died.

He spoke to me in impassioned terms and in retrospect I'm surprised I wasn't frightened when he'd grab and shake me while talking about how upsetting something was (I just sensed I wasn't in danger). Shortly before he died he asked me to figure out why there's evil in the world (what a thing to ask a 15-year-old!) and I believe somehow put a piece of his soul in me (to the point that I started having nightmares of the Vietnam War which he fought in and where he became the major drug addict he was as I knew him) and for many years after I'd light incense and/or candles to him on (or around) Halloween and try to communicate what I learned until I felt he had what he needed.

Someone whose psychic abilities I trust (and I don't give that trust cheaply) said Pappy and I knew each other in my last life (I was killed in the 1970s in that life) and so he was "magnetically" attracted to me (and me to him) and thus a possible example of what you mean.

Unfortunately I don't even know his sun sign. (I'd guess Pisces sun and/or moon with Aries ASC, however, and that would match how 8H Pisces in which Pisces and I have often transformed each other).

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PixieJane
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posted July 26, 2015 11:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As an adult I did have a Scorpio sun neighbor (that's all I know of her chart) who I was never that close to and yet there was a connection between us. While I've generally been helpful to others in the community there was something special about her, and it was mutual for she asked me if I'd be willing to take her cat if things got worse. She herself was victim of a terrible prank by a government worker (long story short she was laid off from a well paying job that she'd been part of for years so that she had years of unemployment to cover her rent with a little more in that time but someone involved in that maliciously lied to her saying she'd be cut off unless she got a job, anything temporary, so she took a job at McDonalds which was unpleasant--all the while hunting for a real job that she was trained for, could keep, and employers wouldn't say she was overqualified for--and when they laid her off as they routinely did everyone to avoid giving further benefits to long term employees she started up the unemployment again, but now it was readjusted to her pay at McDonalds instead of her old job and could thus no longer afford rent and found out she didn't have to take the job at all in the first place!) and I was immediately compelled to help.

As it was I'd made a lot of extra money (I'm not sure I'd have done what I did otherwise--just because I often do good deeds doesn't mean that I'm a sucker or do so compulsively, I take care of me and mine first before I allow myself to take care of others) I'd bought a big bag of cat food (the kind I knew her cat was used to) along with a big bag of cat litter, some paper products and other things I knew her food stamps couldn't get and added an envelope with $20 in it. Because I didn't want to be seen as a sucker that she tried to take advantage of (or tell others who'd then attempt to take advantage of me) nor her to feel shame or obligated or even fearful in my presence (because there are some people who pretend to be caring but are nasty manipulators who are kind only to use you in turn and want to keep you weak, and the hidden price tags can be terrible) I snuck it over there (in a wheelbarrow at 2 AM to her backdoor praying the cops didn't stop me as I knew they wouldn't believe my story and run me in on general principle ) and left the groceries.

Turns out she knew it was me...and it wasn't hard, she was a secretive Scorpio that didn't lightly share her troubles so it was obvious to her. She handled it okay and understood my reasons for being secretive about it. Shortly after she got a managerial job and as a reward for helping her she gave me her employee discount on the strawberry sprizters I loved so much but couldn't afford very often (and did until I moved). Despite this we never did get that close, not even being neighbors, and I'm not sure why.

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Petronilla
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posted July 27, 2015 04:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Petronilla     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you for sharing those stories, PixieJane! Very touching, and interesting. Such a shame you don't have their birth dates.

I got all teary-eyed reading about Pappy. (Like true Englishmen, I always get sentimental about old men and dogs...) I'm sure you didn't share the stories expecting to be praised, but I must say, you're a good person, PixieJane

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Petronilla
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posted July 27, 2015 04:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Petronilla     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Aubyanne: I can definitely see the patterns there! It's very intriguing - a pattern that has shifted. In fact, it's a mirror image in their natals, isn't it? I can't even begin to understand what it might "mean", but I can see it, and I feel it must be significant in some way. And I can see the similarities in the synastries as well.

I would love to hear how you react and relate to these two people, even if you don't want to go into too much detail. I'd love to hear more about the similarities and also the differences.

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Petronilla
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posted July 27, 2015 04:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Petronilla     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, this is interesting... I made the synastry chart between the Historical Figure and the Lost Cause, and it looks like this (with the LC's birth time as 12:00):

What is even more interesting, though, is that if the LC is a Cancer Ascendant - as I think he might be - their synastry would look like this:

That octagon! It gets a bit too esoteric for me to understand, but it certainly looks impressive

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Petronilla
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posted July 30, 2015 04:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Petronilla     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Bumping this, as I'd love to hear about your experiences with those two people, Aubyanne

(No pressure or anything, though! )

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