posted August 24, 2015 10:54 PM            

Decided to update the introduction here, as I realise I may be misrepresenting the relationship, receiving a lot of very good and well-meant 'newbie advice', which just isn't helpful in this situation.

So, in short:

I'm a practising sex therapist, to start. Technique isn't the issue so much as orientation, when you'd like to go beyond that which you're 'wired' to be doing. My boyfriend and I have been in a technically sexual relationship for two years, and together for five.

We are both asexual and recovering schizoids. During that time, we have reached what can be considered expert-level knowledge of each other's bodies, as well as the physical process of sexual intercourse. So it isn't about lacking know-how -- we've got that, even beyond what an average couple likely has encountered. We have a deep trust and unconditional love for one another, so that isn't an issue.

It's the fact that we both lack sexual attraction and cannot simply trust our bodies to signal when sex is desired, as it's never physically desired. We can, however, successfully bring each other through the stages of arousal as needed, and have done so.

Since our relationship progressed into what is now considered a more 'traditional' romantic relationship, (see long comment for details on that) we've been reevaluating the clinical and straightforward way in which we have intercourse, curious as to how we can take it from the intercourse level to the feeling of actually having sex together.

I thought this might actually be a fun and innovative way to explore sexual dynamics in synastry, as well as introduce my boyfriend to some practical applications of astrology. I'm curious as to what you see as natural dynamics, inclinations, and indications of activities and experiences which we might find enjoyable, given our natals and synastry.

He's the Cancerian, I'm the Libran.

posted August 25, 2015 03:39 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aubyanne:
Trouble is ... we have NO idea where to begin in this department. Totally out to sea. Neither of us experience sexual attraction, but we're both able to achieve sufficient arousal for satisfactory intercourse -- through dissociation and emotional detachment.

Now, for the first time since our sexual relationship began (two years ago), we're wanting to not just be present with each other, but fully emotionally invested and attain the sort of holistic experience we've been told constitutes 'great sex'. (Whatever that bloody is!) We're tired of approaching everything so clinically, and want to attempt experiencing what's already enjoyed by sexual couples the world over.

---

Apparently I must have a vastly better sex life even on my own alone. Hooray for hormones?

The mindset being alien (despite leaning toward schizoid sides most likely) it's presumably just as hard to grasp your end or view of things as just having sex seems to be from your end. It seems surprising in any case that for someone with as lively an imagination as you seem to have, you'd not have thought of sexual fantasies as something you may need to look into or try out on your own first before delving into couple-style interactions. If there is no desire for anything I suppose it's difficult to put yourself into scenarios in the mind, but that "normally"(?) seems what's suggested first. Finding something that turns you on and then trying it with a partner, IF that side of things is seen as necessary, desired or ok.

I imagine even thinking of sexual fantasy style stuff may be the problem though, but there is plenty of erotic fiction or other people's fantasies out there. Cliched or not, from sheiks and oases, caliphs and harems or whatever olden-times (cliched, as said) to other role-play based fantasies or mental mindscapes to some people's fantasies about sexual positions or styles, or the power dynamics (the dom-sub things you declare you're very familiar with on some level at least) as kinks or whatever you have. It seems however to be all about the mind, what is sexy or a turn-on for each individual out there. Even if the turn-on was a specific kind of touch, from feather-light barely there touches, perhaps on specific regions of the body, or sound, the other person's voice or their telling you a story (sexual fantasies, whatever) or talking dirty or telling the other they love them or whatever works for the people in question. The mind makes something the turn-on, so seems you'd need to figure out something that does turn you on individually first and then see how those work together.

You tell people not to have "fantasies" over people in online associations, for example, but the fantasies and what you think about someone (projections, whatever) are what leads to some people being able to develop feelings even akin to love. Not lasting love per se, but momentarily feeling things like sexual lust/desire, or a flaring up gush of "love", perhaps afterglow style or whatever. If you can "fall in love" with a character from somewhere, however momentarily, and use that, wouldn't that suggest being able to get invested emotionally otherwise as well? Which is where your end becomes a question mark, because have no idea what you do or don't.

Tremendous waves of caring aimed toward someone mixed with the desire to make them feel very good and to experience more pleasure than without you or physical body-parts-rubbed-to-lead-to-pleasure style things, giving pleasure, and learning to receive pleasure as well if that's a problem, well, to someone on the sexual side of the fence all that just seems to happen IF in love or leaning toward loving someone AND having sex with them. Doesn't automatically mean every session of having sex is brilliant, tiredness levels and how well the mind can be aroused and engaged (etc. etc.) influencing things as well. Not to mention the fact that every woman is said to be a little different, too, some liking orgasms already before penetrative sex and others finding that lessens the chance of a "bigger" one during penetrative sex and blah blah public forum and difficult to go into details blah topic.

Quite frankly, it's always been a little baffling you'd be able to give advice on some sex-related fronts if you don't know how it "really" works from some angles. Do you consider that you ever "make love" or is it detached physical level moves to gain bodily gratification only? Or how does something work if you declare there is only the minimum (?) arousal to get to things, and whatever your dissociation and emotional detachment here really means. Have you tried taking turns driving the other one crazy or to as much sexual pleasure as possible (only one person focused on, no touching the other or one person as the focus only?), or other things I hear people are suggested to try?

Suspect the key phrase is emotional attachment though, if you claim detachment and yet somehow want to jump to really great sex with the emotions involved as well - so I'm not sure if sex is the solution, instead of getting emotionally attached as well, and allowing that to remain present even when getting close to the other on a physical level. Tantric sides suggest holding eye contact, but wouldn't know how things would work with people who don't want to take things toward something sexual/pleasurable (in such ways) if naked in someone else's lap, facing the other, for example. Not everybody's body is a turn-on when naked I suppose, but that's why the mind needs to be engaged, one way or another. If you want the entirety of the other person, have the feelings for them, want them to feel good and to feel good with them, and know what your fantasy-style turn-ons are, I'd imagine sex to sort itself out even if the other wasn't your physical ideal. *shrug*

posted August 25, 2015 07:12 AM            

Have you tried working with moon transits?

Moon on your Mars-Pluto conjunction might heat things up?

posted August 25, 2015 08:04 AM            

But most important,to allow that love you feel for your partner express itself in a sexual manner.To focused on giving your partner pleasure because you love them.

I would say having fantasies and the like may make for a great orgasm but it's takes away from the personal aspect which in my opinion makes for a greater sex.

The personal aspect meaning that you only focus on being there with your partner,sharing the love you feel for each other and being emotionally present.

Two of which based on your explanations above you need to work on,ie being emotionally present with your partner and using sex as a way of sharing the love you feel for each other,letting the love expressed through sex take you to greater heights.

Start with baby steps,try to maintain eye contact and most important BE emotionally present.Feel the love you have for your partner when you have sex.

Of course i could be completely wrong since i have hardly any actual experience but this is what i feel makes sex great,in the true expression of sex.It's what gives rise to the word 'intimate'.

If it resonates with you,take it.If not,leave it.

Hope that helps

posted August 25, 2015 09:13 AM            

The other chart with Eros in Aries, that person might want more foreplay, being teased to the point where they are not sure they what they will get ultimately, or if they will get "it"...lol.

posted August 25, 2015 03:21 PM            

Just to go ahead and get a few things out of the way, as I do appreciate the longer essay you've offered here. It's true that I am a professional sex therapist, and have helped hundreds of individuals over the course of my practise, albeit, only several years.

I discovered, through entering therapy myself (a year into my practise, for which I took a year off) that my ability to be ... well, to be blunt -- any man's fantasy, reflecting their innermost desires, stemmed from my lacking sense of self (schizoid) and naturally dissociating from sex (due to past traumas).

What I simply coined the 'love-sex disconnect' (back in those early days) to explain the trauma-bonding which tends to occur in these psychosexual profiles, was all that really allowed me to 'perform' and engage in a variety of sexual experiences, all in the pursuit of novelty or knowledge. I didn't know this of myself until later, and that each boyfriend (and even my husband) was an unwitting participant in some greater exploration of sex. The part of me that was, as-of-yet afraid to make good on that promise I'd made my younger self: to practise sex therapy. But many dreams get laughed out of existence, and an asexual sex therapist was one of the 'funniest' to most people.

I'd hit the pause button on my own sexuality for the past few years, glad for the respite, and able to focus upon helping my husband (a sex addict) gain greater control over his own drives in a few different ways. None of which, I'd later realise, were helping me with what I needed to do. Or, as my boyfriend has stated, I am 'a most unsung spigot in a world of buckets'. Few truly seem to acknowledge my contributions, or make note of my progress, with the level of appreciation that he does. It helps. A lot. When I finally began to pay attention to my own needs, I suddenly found myself surrounded by those who had quietly taken advantage of my generosity -- chief among them, my husband. So we'd spend the next few years working through the worst problems in our marriage. It's, thankfully, brought us to where we are, complex and unconventional though it may be. We're not out to win anyone's approval: just to be as happy as we all can be, work through our issues healthfully, and help as many people as we're able. Not a bad setup.

Now, my boyfriend became a part of that equation after three years of our close and (mostly, for the prior two) platonic relationship. He was learning to integrate his disowned emotional profile into his greater personality -- deciding to do so, by choice, and needing a lot of help. Of course, I was all too happy to help a fellow schizoid out of the dark, and we'd acknowledged a few times in the beginning that we do love each other.

But love, for an ace, is not exactly the same experience for a sexual individual. Of course, love is love, but romantic attraction and sexual feelings muddy the water of what is actually the basis of real friendship: love. We love our friends; we nurse each other through heartbreak, help each other move, and are there when needed, for the times of joy as well as pain. But we've come to divorce friendship from love, sadly enough, so as to convey that sex isn't involved. ... Typically. As the friends-with-benefits arrangement has picked up steam, the lines thin, and just what's going on becomes less clear. Of course, if you're loving friends and sex is involved, well, they have another term for that: relationship.

In short, ours has been unconventional from the beginning.

It was the well-meant but off-handed comments of family friends which put the whole thing in motion. Since my husband and I moved to Los Angeles in September 2008, it'd become an on-off tradition to enjoy Thanksgiving with a dear ex-girlfriend's family. My (now) boyfriend and I had recently returned to exploring the romantic component of our relationship (which had been dropped two years prior) and, as we'd negotiated against a sexual relationship in the beginning (July 2010) as neither wanted the headache, it wasn't an issue -- until then.

As the ex-girlfriend is also a good friend of mine, she knew the situation regarding the relationship with my boyfriend, who was invited along this year, when his own (long-standing) plans fell through suddenly. Perhaps it was fate. He'd spent Hallowe'ens with us, but never a traditional holiday reserved for family. Upon reflection, nobody really knows why; it just never came up, and he's very solitary. We all had a fantastic time. He made a wonderful impression upon her family (no surprise) and both of us were oblivious to the gossiping that would follow, amongst mother and daughter.

In the proverbial nutshell, the mother was incredulous when her daughter explained that we were privately involved; statements of disbelief that we could be having a sexual relationship followed readily.

I suppose it might all be blamed on one of his Aries Moon's wilder moments, but when it came up in our casual conversation, he was decisive to the point of being blunt in response.

We ought to prove them wrong.

Now, I know what you're thinking. How smooth! What a clever way to nudge the relationship where it was undoubtedly going. Well, considering we'd not so much as made out, and I could count the times he'd kissed me (and never for longer than a second or two) I could tell that there wasn't an ounce of subterfuge involved. Of course, he doesn't do anything without some sort of agenda; celibate for 17 years, and intensely private -- with more than a passing interest in the deeper study of sex.

So, I also suspect that he found that I was just as much of an eerie match to him as he would prove for me. It also bears mentioning that no intoxication of any kind was involved, either. We're both respectful of those who choose to engage in such, but being teetotallers, it's just not our bag, baby.

This decision was made in total sobriety, with a mix of intellectual curiosity, and founded in the caring friendship we'd already established. With trust and respect for one another, we figured -- why not?

But the greater question is: why?

Sure, a lot of it was his internal choice to no longer feel on the sidelines of sexual society; as if there was some great secret being enjoyed by people he just didn't understand or experience. It was soon buoyed by a genuine desire to find a better sort of treatment for my vaginismus -- what prevents me from experiencing painless intercourse. We took everything in stages -- except I overestimated by ability to perform, forgetting that technical knowledge doesn't necessarily precede the ability to have deeply satisfying sex. That error was not made with him, however. Almost 20 decades of celibacy atop very limited experience was bound to produce exactly what it did, and my 3 years of sexual inactivity didn't help matters. We would also learn, fairly quickly, that intercourse is not always sex.

I can honestly say the best description for the first time we had intercourse is best summed up in the review of an episode of a series I've greatly enjoyed, as it follows the (dramatised) experiences of my research heroes since my teens -- the sexual pioneers William Masters and Virginia Johnson.

'Masters and Johnson have started sleeping together in the least romantic way possible—the first few minutes of “All Together Now” are excruciatingly painful—an incredibly awkward session in which Masters narrates his sexual response to his partner: “Plateau. Climax. Resolution.” He’s using the labels to distance himself from his own experience of it, which is rather powerful.'

I suppose this is bound to happen when you have two people who actually know human sexual response, and are emotionally detached. I recall watching the episode for the first time and not quite knowing what I was feeling. Shock? A little too much empathy? Half-wondering, was there anyone else out there who was empathising that much?

There's a reason my boyfriend and I both refer to our sexual relationship as 'having intercourse'. Though, there have been the rare anomalies in which the word 'lovemaking' was used -- and we both agreed that the onset of oxytocin made it worth repeating. Except ... it'd never really be the same.

Rather than any solid bell curve, we're all over the map. And, really, I think it was going fine; his need of knowing he's at least staying engaged in the practise of exploring partnered sexuality, and I was ecstatic to have not just a willing, but eager, partner to undertake the only thing that really drew me to sex: its study and dynamics. Otherwise, the act itself is ... well ... boring. And there are all these expectations, and so much honesty becomes lost out of fear of hurting the other's feelings -- and so on.

Things changed rather suddenly earlier this year, around February -- and then again in May. When he thought to introduce me as his girlfriend, I think we were both a bit ... surprised. I felt he was trying to make fit what's clearly a very disjointed line to that neat, average curve. Society dictates that a woman you're engaging in sexual activity with, and, for whom you have loving feelings and deep caring -- well, there's a word for that.

Yet, in that moment, something else took me over. I'd never signed up for, nor expected sexual exclusivity in our relationship. But, damned if those feelings of possessiveness, and fears of abandonment and need for security didn't arise. I figured they had an evolutionary root, and was determined to be stronger than they are, but, in doing so, I was shutting out my own feelings, and we both agreed that being present with each other was an absolute baseline for intercourse.

His declaring an exclusivity to our relationship meant I could at least explore those feelings safely, without the threat of suddenly discovering he was seeing someone (though I now realise how really, really unlikely that is -- and would have to be done purely out of spite; he doesn't seem capable of that, from what I've learnt of him).

Though, our intentions to incorporate the romantic trappings of traditional relationships were well-meant, but falling mostly flat. And he still kissed me once in a blue moon, and rarely, if ever, during intercourse. Very well, I thought; this at least gives us the comfort of feeling that we're able to be, a bit more securely, what we've already been declared we are by several people -- including my husband. He was glad for it. He felt we've been in denial since the beginning, which ... is a discussion for another day, and definitely has its own merit.

It was May when things ... became ... complicated, and I felt we might be playing off of different sheets of music. Yes, I'd taken to referring to him as my boyfriend, and, in some odd moments, couldn't help but relish the feeling -- even if I was always just a bit concerned it might be fleeting; I wasn't sure what stock I could really place in it. After all, our commitment was more ad hoc, a posteriori, and de facto: we were looking to better embody what we appeared to be -- or maybe even were; perhaps what we'd even become without our active knowledge.

In May, I learnt that he's in love with me.

Though it'd slipped out, it wasn't done in error; rather, he took it as an obvious statement of fact en route to some other known quotient. But I'd had no idea. See, I was operating off of an entirely different schema. So, he was genuinely surprised at my shock. It really wasn't a problem, fortunately, as I'd just been wondering myself, earlier that week, if I wasn't actually in love with him, and unable to really consider it. So it was terribly convenient, the way in which it happened.

But it slowly began to shift everything, subtly, but distinctly.

If we were in love, fully present in intercourse (and were absolutely doing that at what can only be called expert level, thanks to our research and experience) but we weren't having that 'great sex' we'd heard would blow both of our minds ...

... what was wrong?

It led us to explore things a bit differently, though we remained a bit confused as to how everything was supposed to fit together -- all these dimensions of relationship. Our research in greater depth of BDSM dynamics in context most often taken as sexual revealed a lot of fascinating things we're still delving into.

But something also happened in May, which I feel has caused the greater shift. My husband began a relationship with a very sexual woman, and it's made ... us appear to be positively frigid, ultra-clinical, and almost professional in our approach to each other. But with weird cracks in the exterior; there are moments our extreme knowledge of each other will surface, which seems almost out-of-place in the presence of so much propriety and politesse.

So, while my husband was slamming his new girlfriend against the elevator wall, a la Christian Grey (whom we both can't stand, honestly, but she digs BDSM via that lens) my boyfriend and I were engaged in a myriad of other things, all of which involved conversation, or creativity. But we couldn't pass up an opportunity in which we had the entire night together to not have intercourse, and so we did, in the usual way.

What gets me most about our approach is its distinctively shifting modes -- and not easily, either. More akin to gears. We can be conversing for hours, completely alone and undisturbed in my bedroom, without so much as a kiss. Maybe the periodic affection; depending upon other factors, we might curl up together. It just depends.

And so sex has always been this gear we shift into that somehow leaves our greater relationship and its intimacy behind. Perhaps because there's little demonstration of that intimacy; it's a profound emotional intimacy -- the likes of which are enjoyed by best friends, happy romantic partners, and 'soulmates'. No one knows him better than I do -- and he's stated so. And, he's now been privy to more than most. My husband and I share a very deep intimacy, rooted in his comfort with sex, affection, and our blatant honesty with each other in our marriage. But my boyfriend and I have had experiences that ... have altered our perception of reality, simply stated. That, in and of itself, can be very binding.

That's why I love them both with the same heart and soul similarly, and yet very, very differently.

And so, most recently, my boyfriend and I have become further resolved to maintain our sexual relationship, but refrain from our oddly natural clinical approach. We're not sure how to do that just yet, but we're determined to make that the goal overall.

Hence, my curiosity as to whether there were some immediately evident things (and I love the timing of lunar transits, Faith; great idea!) in our synastry that you guys have seen operating one way or another sexually. I like other opinions and viewpoints; it helps me avoid becoming locked in my own.

And there's our complicated history, so to speak; why there's nothing so simple as a basic solution, as so many factors are involved.

posted August 25, 2015 04:40 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by llewsacm:
Just looking at the placement of Eros in your charts, whoever has Eros in Scorpio (not sure who is who) that person would want a deep merging through sex. I cant see that person being satisfied with just a superficial sexual relationship. Anything that would trigger vulnerability with that person might draw out a more sexual vibe in the bedroom.

The other chart with Eros in Aries, that person might want more foreplay, being teased to the point where they are not sure they what they will get ultimately, or if they will get "it"...lol.

If the male is Aries Eros, (I'm gonna throw this out there on a whim) have you tried a chastity device? The male may enjoy this as it would be a game, and Aries Eros usually enjoys games. Plus, if the woman is Eros Scorpio, it may enhance their desire to have that connectivity with the male partner. You would hold the key, literally, to their sexuality. Of course you both need to have an enormous amount of trust to pull this off. Just a thought.

---

Hey there, llewsacm, who is clearly a fellow kinkster.

I've been my husband's keyholder, off-and-on, for the past several years. Mostly on. As he's exploring being dominant in his relationship, he remains submissive to me (which is his default, or preferable, orientation).

Obviously, the baseline requirement for male chastity is a dependence upon orgasm. (I tend to use chastity most often in couples suffering the consequences of sex addiction, where the addicted partner is also male, and the two are trying to return to a mutually fulfilling sex-life. Unrelated, but the non-addict partner may enter a period of sexual anorexia stemming from the consequences of the addict's acting out; it's a deeply interwoven tapestry of psychopathology that results.)

While many asexual individuals enjoy being kinky, (a larger per cent than is average) play specifically oriented in orgasm dynamics leaves us cold. First, there must be some value placed upon orgasm, outside of the relief from its unpleasant physical side effects, in absence of release. It need not be dependence, but there must be value.

My boyfriend is DE with what's known as primary intermittent ejaculatory anhedonia. In other words, since he developed what little libido he has (which is purely -- and paradoxically -- physiological) in late puberty, he's had periods of anorgasmia with desynchronous ejaculation. Intermittent, fortunately, but can be troubling (when ED features present) and it makes release with a partner even more complicated. Though I do suspect this profile isn't as uncommon amongst asexual men as we might think.

Nonetheless, chastity play is out. However, learning to help him release certain shame behaviours regarding orgasm, and place better value upon it, isn't a bad idea. I've been considering approaching that, slowly.

Also, yes, I am the Scorpio EROS, but I suspect, much like his Aries EROS, its sexual energy has been mostly sublimated into other aspects of my personality. I agree that vulnerability [i]is[i] important to me, but especially if it's mutual. What I enjoy most is knowing that he's at least trying to make himself vulnerable -- as I know how difficult it is.

And, no, I've never been one for casual sex. I've been able to detach myself emotionally entirely, but have never found sex for its own sake worth engaging in without a clear purpose. Hence, casual sex has never been a draw.

posted August 25, 2015 04:42 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aurora_girl1990:
Speaking from a purely emotional aspect,one of the ways to have great sex is too,well include emotions.Be engaged.Be present with your partner and share your thoughts and desires.

But most important,to allow that love you feel for your partner express itself in a sexual manner.To focused on giving your partner pleasure because you love them.

I would say having fantasies and the like may make for a great orgasm but it's takes away from the personal aspect which in my opinion makes for a greater sex.

The personal aspect meaning that you only focus on being there with your partner,sharing the love you feel for each other and being emotionally present.

Two of which based on your explanations above you need to work on,ie being emotionally present with your partner and using sex as a way of sharing the love you feel for each other,letting the love expressed through sex take you to greater heights.

Start with baby steps,try to maintain eye contact and most important BE emotionally present.Feel the love you have for your partner when you have sex.

Of course i could be completely wrong since i have hardly any actual experience but this is what i feel makes sex great,in the true expression of sex.It's what gives rise to the word 'intimate'.

If it resonates with you,take it.If not,leave it.

Hope that helps

Edit:i know it's not from the synastry but i'm not that good at synastry that's why i commented on emotional aspects.I'm sorry if that's not what you wanted.

---

That's sweet of you to chime in, Aurora.

posted August 25, 2015 05:41 PM            

The sex, per se, isn't the problem. It's how to do so, effectively, when lacking sexual attraction.

posted August 25, 2015 07:11 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Aubyanne:
Thanks, Gabby. We're way ahead of all of that, however, having begun with sensate focus techniques (of which I've always been a big fan for even relationships not featuring dysfunction). We wouldn't even be where we are without explicit trust, and have developed a very precise understanding of each other's bodies.

The sex, per se, isn't the problem. It's how to do so, effectively, when lacking sexual attraction.

Also, his internal experience doesn't always match the external reality. He won't realise he's aroused when he is, and can have trouble achieving erection when he really wants to be. So we've learnt to check-in with each other very frequently, and not to trust the physical response alone, as it can be mere conditioning, rather than true alignment of a holistic experience of psychological and emotional arousal.

---

posted August 25, 2015 08:08 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gabby:
Huh...I've never experienced what you guys are going through, so I'm at a loss for advice or effective help. I read your post and tried to wrap my head around what it would feel like to experience that, typically I can put self in others shoes but this is so foreign to me I couldn't feel it. I'm sorry, wish I had more to give!

---

Thanks, Gabby. No worries on looking at it from an empathetic point of view -- though, I appreciate that. Purely from an astrological perspective, what do you think? Anything jump out at you?

As to the rest, asexuality would feel foreign to anyone with a sexual orientation. As they say, the hardest thing to process for most sexual individuals is that the blank in 'I'm attracted to ____ ' would simply remain empty. But, so it goes with aces. We have to rely upon a deep understanding of our psychology, perception, and be in constant communication if we're going to have a sexual relationship. We're also undoubtedly doing it for another purpose besides sexual gratification, too.

One thing I've discovered is that we both have the psychological need for it, even if it's not sexually expressed. Sex is naturally so invasive (literally!) that you can't conceivably maintain the walls you hold between yourself and the world around you. And, over time, the experience of shutting out the one you love is actually painful, and you want to bring them beyond the wall, and inside with you.

For me, it's a literal interpretation; a way in which the metaphor of my psychological experience is mirrored in my physical environment and external experience. For him, it's the act of participating in, not only taking down my walls, but having to first engage in the lowering of his own. That works in theory, but the second things become too vulnerable, the shields go right back up. But if I've chosen to experience orgasm, that's the most vulnerable state for me, as the loss of control is terrifying. So there's more than a silent pact here, that I won't be 'abandoned' in that state. Unfortunately, detaching is pretty much the essence of emotional abandonment. I'll find myself shutting down afterwards, too, and we have to discuss carefully what we're feeling, what's just happened, why, and devise strategies to prevent it.

It can all get just a little too 'heavy', because the only experience we have is the emotional and psychological delving. Pleasure takes a backseat as deep wounds are ripped open, and potentially cleansed and healed. We'd like things to be a bit lighter, but ... with tPLUTO going through my 5H, that's not exactly all that likely, either.

iQ's also said that, using the Equal Houses system, his SATURN is actually 5H, showing a 'preference for non-desire'.

Did I mention that one of his soul missions is experiencing true sexual joy? I've got my work cut out for me!

It's okay, though. I feel we're both likely resolved to this because of the love we have for each other, and our dedication to making our relationship the best that it can be, which means clearing out wounds, healing bad karma, and, in some ways, accepting each other as we are, while learning how to embody the divine complements of the masculine and feminine.

posted August 26, 2015 12:33 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aubyanne:
... that my ability to be ... well, to be blunt -- any man's fantasy, reflecting their innermost desires, stemmed from my lacking sense of self (schizoid) and naturally dissociating from sex (due to past traumas).

What I simply coined the 'love-sex disconnect' (back in those early days) to explain the trauma-bonding which tends to occur in these psychosexual profiles, was all that really allowed me to 'perform' and engage in a variety of sexual experiences, all in the pursuit of novelty or knowledge.

When I finally began to pay attention to my own needs, I suddenly found myself surrounded by those who had quietly taken advantage of my generosity -- chief among them, my husband.

Well, considering we'd not so much as made out, and I could count the times he'd kissed me (and never for longer than a second or two) I could tell that there wasn't an ounce of subterfuge involved. Of course, he doesn't do anything without some sort of agenda; celibate for 17 years, and intensely private ...

...by a genuine desire to find a better sort of treatment for my vaginismus -- what prevents me from experiencing painless intercourse.

... agreed that the onset of oxytocin made it worth repeating. Except ... it'd never really be the same.

Otherwise, the act itself is ... well ... boring. And there are all these expectations, and so much honesty becomes lost out of fear of hurting the other's feelings -- and so on.

I'd never signed up for, nor expected sexual exclusivity in our relationship. But, damned if those feelings of possessiveness, and fears of abandonment and need for security didn't arise. I figured they had an evolutionary root, and was determined to be stronger than they are, but, in doing so, I was shutting out my own feelings,

And he still kissed me once in a blue moon, and rarely, if ever, during intercourse. ... Husband felt we've been in denial since the beginning, which ... is a discussion for another day, and definitely has its own merit.

In May, I learnt that he's in love with me.

Though it'd slipped out, it wasn't done in error; rather, he took it as an obvious statement of fact en route to some other known quotient. But I'd had no idea.

If we were in love, fully present in intercourse (and were absolutely doing that at what can only be called expert level, thanks to our research and experience) but we weren't having that 'great sex' we'd heard would blow both of our minds ...

... what was wrong?

But something also happened in May, which I feel has caused the greater shift. My husband began a relationship with a very sexual woman, and it's made ... us appear to be positively frigid, ultra-clinical, and almost professional in our approach to each other.

So, while my husband was slamming his new girlfriend against the elevator wall, a la Christian Grey (whom we both can't stand, honestly, but she digs BDSM via that lens) my boyfriend and I were engaged in a myriad of other things, all of which involved conversation, or creativity.

Maybe the periodic affection; depending upon other factors, we might curl up together. It just depends.

Perhaps because there's little demonstration of that intimacy; it's a profound emotional intimacy -- the likes of which are enjoyed by best friends, happy romantic partners, and 'soulmates'.

Hence, my curiosity as to whether there were some immediately evident things in our synastry that you guys have seen operating one way or another sexually. I like other opinions and viewpoints; it helps me avoid becoming locked in my own.

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You may recall that our "romantic/erotic" geared things were conjunct with Venus, Eros and Valentine basically at the same spots. So theoretically I'd have similar approaches on some levels, and apparently tend to reply to some of the more sex-related topics when around, whatever the reasons. Eros in Scorpio possibly included. Difference is probably that I can sit here and go rowr over the way the shirt feels against the breasts, for a random example, that there is a sense of sexiness present, even if not a complete or constant focus on sex or feeling sexy all the time, of course. Whether it's tied to the hormonal cycle as said or something else otherwise inherent in me, sexual focus or sides exist to me, so it's difficult to try and "drag" someone who doesn't have it innately to similar regions.

However, there is still a slight gentle smile of "For smart people, you don't seem too smart" happening, anyway. Pardon the potential obnoxiousness of it, but "Really?" happens and asks if you're really not kissing that much, for example? Seriously? START KISSING AND DO THAT FOR A FEW HOURS. Every now and then, at least. It's one of the first things people in their teens are said to do, too, before they can get around to sex, being limited in opportunities and possibly because they're not ready for sex/intercourse yet either. If you're not intimate or enjoying things when you get to "actual" sex, or the part of it where you presumably stick body parts together, then isn't the problem what you yourself just described in your text? That while emotionally close otherwise, you just suddenly go "Right. We have this sex business to get out of the way again. Shall we remove our clothes ourselves or is it time we perhaps undress each other, in more daring moves?" or some such very Monty Python sketch style thing of John Cleese's teacher figure having his wife over for a sex ed class for the boys to see, their even discussing something else during the act as I recall. You sound like the epitome of Britishness with things.

If he's physically aroused but the mind isn't engaged, it's part of what I wrote about with engaging the mind or using fantasies or something to discover what the (brain) turn-on part is for every person. As I understand it the arousal discrepancy thing is common in women, the body responding even when the mind isn't fully engaged or ready to consent, although men often take whatever amount of lubrication, so to speak, as the women obviously being ready or gagging for it. Cue unsatisfactory sex, unless things happen to work well on the physical side and lead to more arousal, blah blah etc. blah? Or unless something turns the partner on otherwise, the mind made to respond "sexily" as well, to gear toward what a sexy thing it is that's going on.

Which is where the "the act itself is ... well ... boring" slight smiles or "Well, not really" comes in. I realize that if you have pain-related problems it's probably different, but the act itself should not be THAT boring if you focus on the giving and receiving of pleasure with someone you really want to have sex with. The problem (aside pain or whatever) is probably the lack of desire or missing the thought that the person opposite (or behind, wherever, in touch) is sexy and wanted. That you can't wait to have them at least touching you (sexually), even if inside was causing problems (and women have other options for penetrative sex as well, and no, the other "downstairs" option shouldn't be painful either, if everything is normal and/or done right. It's another pleasurable option for some women with problems, as I hear. *shrug*).

I don't see why you'd consider caring enough to want exclusivity with someone you say you love a bad thing and want it shut down or out, but glad you at least had sense enough to not ignore what you feel. It's also a bit of a surprise that "being in love" would be a surprise, but you're possibly climbing backwards into the tree on the whole as it is, so as long as it works or you get there eventually, how is probably irrelevant. Hence, why not try kissing for long times? It's said to promote intimacy or glueing a couple together, presumably similarly to sex, but on the earlier stages of a relationship. So probably not likely to harm anything if actually looking to better the sex life as well. Kissing while staring the other person in the eyes (left is said to be the natural choice due to tying to the right side of the brain & emotions, ofc) can be a very big turn-on, or tie people together rather strongly, just exploring that side of things and how many different ways you can kiss someone. And how good it generally feels, if into the person you're doing it with, so perhaps kissing will promote something akin sexual feelings even in asexual people. I wouldn't know.

Kiss, cuddle, snuggle, smell each other while that close, plant more small kisses on the other's neck or whatever happens to be there, then kiss down the other's hand, body, wherever, and have emotional closeness in love with the other person there. Maybe even sleep curled up in each other, if possible. It's not necessarily supposed to lead to intercourse if people do such things, it's just that most of the time men especially get so aroused that they insist on the sex (or intercourse, if counting the other things as part of good sex as well) in any case. Be and stay close, physically, wrapped in each other in fascination of the person you love, because you want them to feel great or the best ever, and if giving them more pleasure in some ways is the way to add to the fascination and love, then it's just to see which way of giving each other pleasure you want to opt for in each case. THEN if sex/intercourse happens to happen or all that leads to it because desire arises, maybe the hormones take care of the rest again for a change. Laugh, giggle, kiss, talk (sweet nothings or non-academic or non-serious things, I would imagine), kiss some more, hold the eye contact or emotional closeness, and build all that before any clinical act gets in the way of all the pleasurable things. Clinical is banned.

EDIT:

Tl;dr version of my reaction: "Why the hell aren't you kissing already?!" Not kissing someone I love (especially during sex) is a complete "Does not compute, WTH are you talking about?"

posted August 26, 2015 02:42 PM            

We had this conversation once. Actually, recently.

His old college roommate caught a glimpse of him in the background of Sandler's comedy classic The Wedding Singer, saying how he'd recognised him, sidled up to another 'groundie (background actor) who was in the 'role' as his wedding date. I recall the scene as he'd told me of it years ago, as he's been in everything somewhere. (Really. I think he's easily worked 85% of American shows since 1995, and probably 60% LA-based movies. Anytime Bruce Willis isn't visible in the suit in Armageddon? Yep. Not Bruce Willis. Or you can't see David Caruso's face on the first several seasons of CSI: Miami? Back of Tom Paris' head on Voyager? When it isn't quite Jude Law? That sort of thing.)

I tried to screencap it for him, but couldn't actually find it. I'm sure it's there, but odd that I missed it somehow. Nonetheless, all I have is his old roommate's account, and, of course, his own. Now, my boyfriend is always trying to give the 'normal' response -- what would be expected in such an instance -- when interacting with those from his adolescence (university, in this case). He made the wry remark that they got the shot in one take, but the crew liked him so much (this I believe) that they 'gave him five'. Now there's an inside joke here. This isn't a five-minute break, but the implication of 'five more takes', with the intended subtle hint that, he was assumed to be enjoying himself so much with random-actress-on-set, ( ... no), that they extended it for 'five more takes'.

Frankly, whether they did or didn't is meaningless; that's one of the many little stories he used to use from set that conveys a 'greater implication of masculinity'. Please. As if an ex-Army officer needs to confirm his masculinity. (No.) Over time, I've become very annoyed at these 'little tall tales', regardless of the grain of truth they contain (psychological operator, after all; it's about the truth -- just, y'know -- heavily manipulated) and have quietly urged him away from them over time.

I was ... mildly disheartened to see him needing to 'put on the show' for his old college roommate, with the 'gave me five' statement. Granted, I do get it; nearly fifty, never been married, and his only real relationship is completely under the radar, known to very, very few. So, very well, I understand his need to put on airs. But I try so diligently to live authentically -- I try to help him do the same.

Bit of a rant. Sorry for that.

Any rate ... I later spoke to him privately, recounting the thread (on Facebook, where he's newly reacclimatising, asking why he'd said that. He didn't know what I meant. I'd asked why he indicated that the shoot was extended, and he got to kiss Actress X for another five takes. And he pulls slightly away, and says, ' ... you're jealous?' to which I narrow my eyes and explain. Of course not. It's been, what, fifteen years? It was on set, and he doesn't even know who she is. Why on earth would I be jealous?

Instead, I reminded him that he's always hated kissing, and he put across the image that he, of course, loves it, because that's 'normal'. He got it then, and considered his actions, finally replying very simply, 'it was for a shot.'

A-ha! There it is. It was for a shot. Like all things, there must be a clearly defined purpose. And, really, while he tries -- he does try -- only a water fowl gets why you expect him to both fly and swim; and he is no water fowl -- yet.

I'm not sure if I was ever this way about kissing. If I just naturally gravitated to the Alain de Botton explanation of it being 'the end of isolation', and the moment in which we find we are truly no longer alone; that someone is there, ready, willing, and even eager to invade our personal space, and engage in behaviours so contrary to logic and rationale that we can't help but be charmed.

But, really, how many times had we ever seen Spock lock lips in ST:TOS? The defence rests. (Answer: This Side of Paradise, S02E24, first broadcast 2 March 1967, because, nerd.)

When his brain is engaged, it's an elaborate logic machine, constantly processing everything for its value, worth, and purpose. Now, I'd be a hypocrite to say that I'm not very similar, but I've learnt to (sometimes) shut it down. But, we can all be taught.

Last night, for instance, as he began to recount the evolutionary basis for kissing, as indicated by various research over time -- its role in defining what is a suitable mate through the lens of reproductive fitness, and I kept saying, 'I know,' (because I do) on about the third round of spouting trivia (as usual, to distance himself) I was surprised when he told himself to shut up -- and did -- and then simply kissed me.

So, we can be taught. Though, when he likens us to (back to the Trekverse) Spock and Seven of Nine, he's ... not far off.

posted August 26, 2015 03:38 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Aubyanne:
So, we can be taught. Though, when he likens us to (back to the Trekverse) Spock and Seven of Nine, he's ... not far off.

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posted August 26, 2015 04:05 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Keela:
Will see about sexual style astrology later when I can. Just adding in the obligatory "I'm Romulan, we don't do non-passionate (even if choosing to hide things for our own reasons or strategic ones when seen best - for us)" Trek drive-by greet for now. I grew up Vulcan, or thinking I was (first episode seeing ST, or Spock, was Amok Time as I recall. Unrelated to my overall Vulcanness, but noting), until 20s. Or until overall more sense and practicality as per a Romulan might have. From a Romulan perspective, anyway. Vulcans might see it differently (but what do they know?).

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posted August 26, 2015 07:41 PM            

1. I will withhold sex and go through periods of celibacy by choice

2. My partner will withhold sex

I would guess that this may relate towards my need to have a deep, connected relationship with my partner in order for my passion to come out fully during any sexual activity. It's true that I have withheld sex from my partners in the past if I do not sense honesty or togetherness exclusive with that individual. There have been times when my fears have been created in my mind and insecurity sets in, causing a disconnect with my partner. Other times I've cut off my partner entirely if I've discovered they are or have been seeking sex elsewhere. It damages the relationship in my mind and I can not go back, hard as I try. When that has happened, a part of the relationship dies and my passion is no longer present and as a result, sex is not enjoyable, at least with the individual in question, if that makes sense.

I sometimes have wished that it didn't matter so much to me, so I could have "casual" sex relationships. However, it is simply not possible for me. On the other hand, I really do not think sex would be as enjoyable overall if I did have this side to me...my best orgasms have been when my mind is in a surreal, trace-like state, and my body responds favorably as a result...lol. There have been instances where I did not have intercourse but was able to climax just from being aroused with the connectivity with my partner. The scent of my lover, the way they talked to me, could both contribute to climax without intercourse or even stimulation to the genital area. Thats is ONLY if I feel one with them and bonded at a very deep level.

I wonder with your own Scorpio moon if you've experienced anything similar.

posted August 29, 2015 11:56 PM            

How about some progressed natal/syanstry/composite charts?

Maybe we can find the key to unlock this issue looking at more recent charts.

You both obviously want the physical intimacy and are willing to work on it.