posted September 02, 2015 08:56 AM            

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Originally posted by DopGang:
I think what sucks most is that these fantasies create real emotion and those emotions remain real even after the illusion is gone. It's like suffering heartbreak that no one ever knows about from a relationship that never existed. I've had more heartbreak than relationships. LOL
People talk about Pluto obsession. Ha!
Neptunian obsession is real and it's a b**ch!!!

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My Venus-Neptune has functioned like that.

Well said

I only meant to pop into this thread, wave to muddy and leave, but it's all so deep and fascinating, I want to comment on everything.
But it's all just compliments for how everyone handles their challenges, and I interrupt the flow of your conversation so...

posted September 02, 2015 09:49 AM            

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Originally posted by Faith:
Too sad.

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posted September 02, 2015 09:53 AM            

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Originally posted by Faith:
I love this thread...amazing conversation.

Brilliant, Gabby.

Really eye-opening, not just about 12H Venus, but love in general.

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posted September 02, 2015 09:55 AM            

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Originally posted by DopGang:
Venus 12th occasionally draws unavailable, etc people to them as well.

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posted September 02, 2015 10:00 AM            

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Originally posted by 12muddy:
No, I say that as a joke.

I don't suffer from anything you just stated. I assure you my self esteem is just how it needs to be. No self loathing or immature manifestation here. I'm a person with firm principles, dignity and value system.

What I'm going through with my husband is very different. He deals with malignant narcissistic parents. There's that, and there's filial piety to be considered. I myself do not subscribe to such beliefs, but the choice was between leaving and shouldering the burden with him. I chose the latter. That's the sacrifice I attribute to the 12th house venus

That's the lesson for me to learn. I grew up thinking in terms of "investments" and "returns", so it was important for me to think beyond that. To truly think for another person. It made me realize that I'm capable of more love than I previously assumed. And that my love for him is deeper than I thought.

I don't consider that being the martyr. It's cr*ppy for both he and I, the least I can do is to keep it together and give him encouragement.

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Gabby: Gabby you made me tear up a little.

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You know I've had times that me n my partner at that time face adversity together and as I'm down and see his down but we are not angry or fighting or anything, we not taking it out on each we are each other's strength.
We are suffering together...sometimes I would want to just go hug him and tell him how much I love him and other times I want to be with him right there...it's a bonding thing that's so powerful.
It can be something as simple as moving together and we both are exhausted and grumpy but we keep working together and smiling at each other as comfort n support...we don't turn on each other.
There's something so special about knowing when the going gets tough we get stronger because we are going to stand back to back fighting together instead of face in face batteling each other just as much as the situation.

posted September 02, 2015 12:03 PM            

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Originally posted by Lumi0:
Honestly, now that I know Aubyanne has Venus in the 12th house and has "Twin Flame" issues, I am beginning to wonder if those with Venus in the 12th are simply being dealt a difficult Neptunian (delusions) card, or if we are in fact experiencing relationships that the rest simply do not get to experience? I say this because I also have Venus in the 12th and I also have a "Twin Flame." Thing is, Im a classic Venus in 12th house person because no one knows of my feelings and he's also unavailable. Unavailable in the absolute meaning of the word. Honestly, there is nothing sadder than to be a classic 12th house Venus person.

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posted September 02, 2015 05:19 PM            

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Originally posted by Lumi0:
Honestly, now that I know Aubyanne has Venus in the 12th house and has "Twin Flame" issues, I am beginning to wonder if those with Venus in the 12th are simply being dealt a difficult Neptunian (delusions) card, or if we are in fact experiencing relationships that the rest simply do not get to experience? I say this because I also have Venus in the 12th and I also have a "Twin Flame." Thing is, Im a classic Venus in 12th house person because no one knows of my feelings and he's also unavailable. Unavailable in the absolute meaning of the word. Honestly, there is nothing sadder than to be a classic 12th house Venus person.

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Lumi0,

I think it's important that we really, really remember to face reality. It's the foundation upon which everything else is settled -- and without it, we're susceptible to delusions, illusions, and worse.

But sometimes ... sometimes ... in that rare, astronomically unlikely case, the impossible is actually true. That's what I've learnt through two extremely important Karmic Soulmates -- my ex-producing partner, and my husband, and, later, my boyfriend, whom I'd later discover is actually my Twin Flame.

And, wow, do I ever believe it now, too. It's not a concept anymore. It's a reality. It's an astonishing, flabbergasting reality. Ironically, it's running from that unbelievable truth that's caused so much pain in our relationship. Failing to understand. Being too afraid to say what's been on my lips for years, and my heart for ... oh, God knows how much longer.

But to really try and explain it, I'll have to use a few different archetypes -- modern, ancient, and everything in between. Bear with me on that; being a writer, it does make things a bit more comprehensible. (But only a bit.) And, most of all, strangely linear, and even logical. Though only if you know the whole story; which, I do, living it.

I'm not about to lie and say that I wasn't a fanciful child. I was. I had a powerful -- even profoundly -- developed imagination, dreamt vividly, and being raised in a metaphysical household, certain 'fundamentals of reality' were more than a bit malleable. I suddenly raged against it all around age 12, however, turning against my mother's teachings, and the dreamlike foundation of my childhood. The belief in achieving impossible things, even as my father was once as sceptical, before my mother completely altered his understanding of reality, too, and considerably before I was born.

Due to tragedy it's best not to revisit now (suffice it to say, our home burning down), my family's life was turned upside down (understatement) when I was 12. It would seem my way of coping was psychogenic retrograde amnesia, as the first 12 years of my life, vanished from my memory at age 13. We don't know why I became an amnesiac, or exactly when it happened. It just did, and the closest thing we can relate it to is the tragedy of losing our home -- though plenty have said that it's a bit of a dramatic means to cope with such devastation. As well as the discovery of previous traumas related to repressed sexual abuse returning, though this occurred following the amnesia, meaning, it couldn't be at its root.

Over the next decade, much returned, though it'll always be fuzzy as to whether these are memories which were sparked back into existence by photographs and other features of recollection, or they've been reconstructed as a result of my brilliant imagination. So there's always going to be a bit back there that's a tad unreal.

Of course, going on to become a writer as well as an investigator and debunker, I'd create amnesiac characters with bizarre backgrounds, strong-willed, alpha females who were loners, carrying on in their humdrum lives, capable of much more than they're able. Stuck, somehow, awaiting their life to begin. Though I began writing at age 6, I don't recall the stories that I wrote up to age 12, and lost most of it in the fire. So it's what I began producing in my early teens which -- not only exists -- but has had the greatest impact. It also has a clear recurring pattern: a spark that ignites the start of their own Campbellian hero's journey. And that spark is a complicated, contrary, gregarious, multidimensional man, (literally) with blonde hair, blue eyes, and an agile voice with an accent of indiscernible origin.

It was glaring in what would become my second series of novels around age 19, that would follow 'past-life' recollections, recurring dreams, and a period of my life that can only be called surreal. And we thought he sprung from the seed of one or two major archetypes, the logical product of that amalgam.

But we were missing something. Something very, very big. We were missing who he was. And that likely doesn't make sense yet. That's okay. It will. It just takes a bit of explanation. There were details clearly present throughout that, when taken together, formed a complete picture. But I wasn't looking at it as a whole just yet, and I was neglecting the understanding that so much had been forgotten, too. And it might be that 'forgotten history' which actually fills in a lot of the glaring blanks.

Or, as my boyfriend had said, 'if his story is 'history', her story is 'her-story', then mystery is mis-story.' Mis-story. The absence of story, or, rather, the apparent absence.

See, I was looking for why my life doesn't make sense in so very many ways. I really needed nothing more than the fact that it doesn't make sense in so very many ways. Or, another thing that I'd said, telling him how he'd met me during a very unusual point in my life. He'd simply responded, 'there's a point in your life that's ever been usual?'

Bingo. And the answer to that would be: no. No, there wasn't. Isn't. Hasn't been. But there's been one facet or feature, as I'd mentioned before, that's present throughout, becoming a sort of recurring theme.

Perhaps you can blame my 12H VENUS for it -- having to have an innate sense of the complex, otherworldly, and even seemingly impossible.

But without it, I'd've missed the most important relationship of my existence. Hell, I'd've missed that such a relationship can exist, and that such a thing would even matter to me -- someone that's nigh misanthropic.

posted September 06, 2015 07:58 AM            

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Originally posted by Gabby:
Moon in 12th does this to Dop!

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Moon AND Venus in Leo in the 12th..This explains a lot ;0

posted September 10, 2015 12:05 AM            

I resonate with what auby has said in this thread, about the need for 'otherworldly'-was it? -experiences...

example:

I'm at a rainbow gathering. a guy who isn't especially impressive or exciting or outgoing and I are engaged in conversation. I've been asking people for their birthdays (you know how it is). This fellow I ask because he wants me to.
I decide that because I might not remember him by name I should draw him.
As I draw I remember how much I lovw drawing people. .
a friend once told me it was like receiving a massage from me or something--I fall in love as I draw. I drew his glasses, his eyes, the frame of his stiff brimmed soft floppy knitted hat, and then the wisps of beard.

Our eyes connected and he knew he was being deeply loved and we really enjoyed it mostly silently. He saw the picture and said that wasn't what he was expecting me to draw--just the eyes and beard basically.

Anyway, at that moment I was thinking about my 12h Venus and how That is fulfillment. And it was super secretive. nobody around us really knew we were having an intimate moment. or maybe they picked up on it. But...

posted September 10, 2015 04:21 AM            

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Originally posted by Orange:
Venus in 12th is similar to Venus in Pisces

What these creatures want is to yearn for love, not to be given love on a silver platter.

The only way to have their heart is by torturing them, then love them in an passive - aggressive way. Being slightly or more so unattainable works wonders with these subjects.

This is the only way it works.

Loving them unconditionally with no fight, is never gonna work. They need to suffer for their love and being punished for it, too. Ohhh, the joy...

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posted September 10, 2015 04:23 AM            

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Originally posted by Aubyanne:
I've got to say, Orange, being one with 12H VENUS, that's probably the absolute way to guarantee that a relationship would [b]never get off the ground with me. How did you ... decide upon this 'method' ? Forgive me, but it sounds horrendous; gamey, disingenuous, deceptive, and even a bit emotionally abusive.[/B]

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posted September 10, 2015 04:25 AM            

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Originally posted by 12muddy:
There's truth in what Orange said. At least to me. There has to be some sort of pain, something I have to give up. It's like "Oh I'm willing to go through this and do this for that person, it must be love".

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posted September 11, 2015 03:09 AM            

I've seen much of the same regarding VENUS square NEPTUNE, which I find intriguing, being a 12H VENUS. Nonetheless, it seems as if this energy is being perverted in some way -- much like the square. The pure expression, free of afflictions, really need not be so delusional or masochistic.

Love is not the same as being in love for example, in my experience. Yes, if I'm willing to make great sacrifices, clearly, I love the person for whom these hardships are being undertaken. But that's not being in love -- that's the act and decision of loving. For me, the experience of being in love is complicated; it's tricky to articulate. It's an emotion as much as it is an action. It can fill me with joy or despair, depending upon the present circumstances. If there is reciprocation, with a deep devotion pledged of equal weight, then fond memories can invade my mind, with spontaneous recollection of something as mundane as the scent of him -- or as intense as the last time we made love. If I'm filled with doubt, it can alternately drive me to shut down my emotions completely to avoid further pain, or, as I've become stronger with greater emotional regulation, able to withstand the more painful blows.

posted September 12, 2015 11:02 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Orange:
Venus in 12th is similar to Venus in Pisces

What these creatures want is to yearn for love, not to be given love on a silver platter.

The only way to have their heart is by torturing them, then love them in an passive - aggressive way. Being slightly or more so unattainable works wonders with these subjects.

This is the only way it works.

Loving them unconditionally with no fight, is never gonna work. They need to suffer for their love and being punished for it, too. Ohhh, the joy...

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Whether this rather negative assessment of Venus in the 12H is actually true, I can't say. But what I do know is the 12th house is the most mysterious and multidimensional of the 12 houses. So there cannot be "one size fits all" or a definitive description that universally fits all of "these creatures." I think Lotus White may have alluded to this, but human beings don't all occupy the same space on the ladder of evolution, so the manifestations of the same placement vary accordingly. I know of people for whom this description misses the mark entirely.

posted September 12, 2015 11:11 PM            

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Originally posted by Aubyanne:
I've got to be the dissenter here, playing devil's advocate to suggest these more negative expressions could be rooted in afflictions and harsh configurations, rather than the pure energy.

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I agree. I'd also add that state of consciousness and evolution determines to a large extent how a person manifests the energy.

posted September 12, 2015 11:12 PM            

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Originally posted by peony:
Whether this rather negative assessment of Venus in the 12H is actually true, I can't say. But what I do know is the 12th house is the most mysterious and multidimensional of the 12 houses. So there cannot be "one size fits all" or a definitive description that universally fits all of "these creatures." I think Lotus White may have alluded to this, but human beings don't all occupy the same space on the ladder of evolution, so the manifestations of the same placement vary accordingly. I know of people for whom this description misses the mark entirely.

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