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Author Topic:   longitudinal equivalent chart
Ceridwen
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posted September 17, 2015 09:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
this is based on the conversion of the declinations into the longitudes.

Now, honestly? I think this might actually be a "too much" of a thing, but who knows?

Declinations ARE important, so it is at least interesting to look at the equivalent chart.

I cringe however inwardly seeing the le`s being compared directly to the longitudes. after all the le`s are really an EQUIVALENT chart, not the real longitudes, just being transposed into the "language" most astrologers speak (that of the longitudinal zodiac).

Another thing is that it might be confusing to look at as the solstice positions are also used. the reason for this is that there are two positions when planets can have the same declinations, and one being the solstice point of the other.

For example my Sun is on 26 Sag and has a declination of 23° S.
However on the other side of the 00 Capricorn-line (the tropic) at 4 Capricorn (26 Sag and 4 Cap are at he same distance of the tropic) a planet would ALSO have the declination of 23 S.
That is why the solstice points are being considered, too.


Nevertheless other authors have described it far better. I only wish I could get my hands on a copy of the declination book of KT Boehrer. *sighs*


Anyway

I wanted to share the article here:

http://solsticepoint.com/blog/astrology/astrology-artic les/declination-charts-a-new-way-of-using-old-techniques-part-1/

http://solsticepoint.com/blog/astrology/astrology-artic les/declination-charts-a-new-way-of-using-old-techniques-part-2/
http://www.solsticepoint.com/synastry.html

and here is a conversion table
http://www.solsticepoint.com/convert.htm


EDIT
I did not mean to come across so critical, I actually find the technique rather intriguing.


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Orange
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posted September 17, 2015 11:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Orange     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I can feel my exact Mars-PLuto parallel sooo well.

I do count declinations. Magi astrology, even thou I am not a follower, alos counts them equally and they do have extensive research on the matter.

My guy has Sun-Moon-PLuto parallel, exact
Sun 6'34 N
Moon 6'28 N
Pluto 6'30 N
and he is the most intense person I've came around. It's real.

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Ceridwen
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posted September 17, 2015 11:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes, it`s absolutely real.

Have you looked up your longitudinal equivalent chart yet?

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Ceridwen
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posted September 17, 2015 11:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My longitudinal equivalent chart
----------------------------------

Sun: 25°55 Sag / 04°04 Cap
Moon: 01°05 Pisces/ 28°54 Libra
Merc: 12°06 Sag/ 17°53 Cap
Venus: 13°20 Cap/ 16°39 Sag
Mars: 5°29 Sag/ 24°30 Cap

Jupiter: 08°15 Pisces/ 21°44 Libra
Saturn: 20°01 Cancer / 09°5 Gemini
Uranus: 29°56 Libra/ 00°03 Pisces
Neptune: 01°23 Sag/ 28°36 Cap
Pluto: 29°24 Leo/ 00°35 Taurus

Ceres: 11°42 Aquarius/ 18°17 Scorpio
Juno: 3°05 Pisces/ 26°55 Libra
Chiron: 21°57 Aries/ 8°02 Virgo

Nodes and angles are always on the ecliptic, hence they are the same as in the natal longitudinal chart plus the solstice points

NN: 10°09 Sag/ 19°50 Cap
Vx: 21°37 Cancer/ 08°22 Gemini
ASC: 7°09 Sag/ 22°50 Cap
MC: 5°10 Libra/ 24°49 Pisces

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Aunt Anomalia
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posted September 17, 2015 02:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aunt Anomalia     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
How do I do this? I found my declination degree in the table, I picked the hemisphere but there are 2 longitudes to choose from.

And why did you write your Moon is in Pisces?

------------------
Anomaling around since 1911.

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Ceridwen
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posted September 17, 2015 02:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There are always two positions that are relvant, longitude equivalent and the antiscion degree/ solstice point.


and yes, since my Moon is on 11 S in declinations, the equivalent degree in longitude is 1 Pisces and its antiscion of 29 Libra.

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Aunt Anomalia
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posted September 17, 2015 02:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aunt Anomalia     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ah, I thought it was supposed to be your nMoon. Ok, I get it now, thanks.

------------------
Anomaling around since 1911.

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Aubyanne
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posted September 17, 2015 02:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aubyanne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ceridwen:

I only wish I could get my hands on a copy of the declination book of KT Boehrer. *sighs*

[/B]


'Auntie' KT was one of the dozens of incredible astrologers I had the fortune of being 'brought up' by. I had a rough-and-tumbled paperback copy from God knows when somewhere in my adolescent room back in the '90s.

If I stumble upon it, I'll gladly send it your way. Can you not find a copy anywhere? Is it a rare book? Much like what Martha Lang-Wescott's published?

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Aunt Anomalia
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posted September 17, 2015 02:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aunt Anomalia     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My declination chart:
Sun 17 Cap
Moon 14 Aqua
Mercury 25 Cap
Venus 28 Cap
Mars 19 Cancer
Jupiter 8 Leo
Saturn 25 Cap
Uranus 4 Cap
Neptune 20 Cap
Pluto 21 Pisces

Well, someting like that, I didn't calculate it in detail.

I'm so boring
Edit: Well, not that boring, I made mistakes -_- Me no like that Cancer Mars though. Well, at least it's trine Pluto...

quote:
Nodes and angles are always on the ecliptic, hence they are the same as in the natal longitudinal chart

Why are they included in declinations then? For example, the table says my ASC is at 7 S.

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Anomaling around since 1911.

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Aubyanne
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posted September 17, 2015 03:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aubyanne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Orange:
I can feel my exact Mars-PLuto parallel sooo well.

I remember when I once stumbled into how my PLUTO and VENUS are antiscia. That was an eye-opening moment.

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Aunt Anomalia
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posted September 17, 2015 03:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aunt Anomalia     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have a Mercury-Saturn parallel under 1 minute. I believe others can feel it

------------------
Anomaling around since 1911.

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Aubyanne
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posted September 17, 2015 03:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aubyanne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My twin's SUN is parallel his MADHATTER. Pretty tight, too. 0º15.

I've got to say ... the first thing people say of him is how eccentric he is. And yet, they can't say it's an unpleasant thing; his voice is incredibly lovely, he's -- as they say 'too pretty' to not be on camera -- and his manner ranges between mild and politely reserved to gregarious and theatrical. It just depends upon the company. Still, he's an agreed-upon walking contradiction. I swear, despite his gentlemanly composition, he revels in being contrary.

He has a lot of quirks: like being on the metric system, 'because it's logical'. He's oppositional to the point of vitriolic regarding advertising in all forms -- a throwback from his work as a military propagandist and ex psychological operations officer. He claims, because he knows what's really going on, we should take him at his word that it's the worst and most insidious threat to personal freedom. So he's been compared to the eponymous character from 'V for Vendetta' more than a few times -- as well as being tied with Lecter for unabashed hatred of poor manners and outright rudeness. Though, thankfully, he'll just gnash his teeth and file it away for later retrieval should you ever cross an unforgivable line, by which you will be stricken from his circle (which is already quite small) immediately -- as opposed to dinner. (It's the small victories.)

Of course, he's a certified genius which occasionally borders upon certifiable. Good trait for a creative professional, though. And, God, that man's issues with time. I can't even. He's perfectly punctual -- if it's professional. Otherwise, he's almost early-onset Alzheimer's in the sense of being a bit unanchored from the present. He often repeats the same stories, as if he can't recall the first telling -- but there's nothing wrong with his memory. He's just never (or, wasn't) emotionally engaged enough to anchor in the present, and have something to flag the memory. And the 'sense' of a previous time will return to his unbidden. 'The other day, it felt exactly like 1992.' God knows why, or even what 'felt' like 1992, however, as he'll launch into something completely unrelated subsequently, typically with a segue of 'strange' and nothing more.

And, last but not least, he's a tea person. Once, when he had to cut caffeine entirely from his diet for a few months -- henceforth known as The Teapocalpyse of 2011 -- he ... came a bit unhinged. He's already a teetotaller, so anything that smacks of an addiction is verboten in his book. He realised, through something or other, that he had a caffeine addiction -- and that was that. No more coffee -- or tea. Cold turkey.

Of course, when he became a professional narrator, he had a legitimate excuse to bring back the tea -- but not the coffee. But a singer, voice actor, narrator -- anyone who spends a lot of time recording -- tends to make Throat Coat tea an active part of their lives. So. That was one of the few times he let 'the majority' influence his decision just enough to provide necessary justification. Heh.

He's quite a character. I half-wonder, due to the fact that I've known SUN-MADHATTER's that aren't downright eccentric like he is, that the karmic implication of the parallel might actually offer greater strength in some way.

Besides. I've got MADHATTER rising, 2º, and I'm utterly ordinary.

All right, all right -- but it doesn't explain why these fellows with MADHATTER conjunct SUN are practically ordinary by comparison to his parallel.

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Ceridwen
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posted September 17, 2015 04:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Aunt Anomalia:

[QUOTE]Nodes and angles are always on the ecliptic, hence they are the same as in the natal longitudinal chart

Why are they included in declinations then? For example, the table says my ASC is at 7 S.

[/QUOTE]


Yes, it just means that the placement in your natal chart and the longitudinal equivalent chart is the same, just like the Sun in your le chart will be also the degree of the Sun in your natal chart.


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Ceridwen
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posted September 17, 2015 04:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Auby,

yes, it seems to be a rare book, or maybe just out of print.

Interesting about the parallel of your twins sun with Madhatter.
Asteroids are complicated, though, in a longitudinal equivalent chart as they definitely do not have to stick to the ecliptic, and thus converting them becomes really difficult. I mean not if they are just a little oob, like 25 or 26 degrees, but for example my EROS is on 54 N. How on earth (or in the sky ) am I meant to convert THAT?

However sticking to the planets (and yes I used Juno, too), I have a parallel of Moon/Juno/Uranus, contraparallel Pluto.


In the le chart that becomes an opposition of

Moon/Juno/Uranus from 00-03 Pisces
opposite
Pluto on 29 Leo

making a T-square with
Neptune on 01 Sag. *sighs*

now if that does not make sense!


This is tightly aligned with Mr Sag`s Nodal axis with his NN on 1 Virgo (and my le Pluto on it) and his SN on 1 Pisces, with my Moon/juno/Uranus on this end.
His PRIAPUS is also on his SN and on 00 Pisces, so it is part of that as well.


Now, while it does not *look* like it is part of it in the declinations, if converting to the longitudinal equivalent, there is

his Mars: 4°18 Virgo

I think it has to be considered here, too, after all it`s opposition to Moon has just a 3 degree orb, which is totally okay in a longitudinal chart (the declinational orb is a bit out of the 1 degree range, but since it is rather low in declination it still makes for the le aspect - 10-11 degrees of Southern declination).


the DW of Sun-Venus parallel however, though just about 45 minutes of orb each, is out of orb for a conjunction in the le chart (10 degrees); but that happens because the planets are so close to the tropics, and in that range, at appr. maximum declination the speed slows so much down that there are just mininmal changes over a longer timeframe.


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Aubyanne
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posted September 17, 2015 07:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aubyanne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Asteroids are complicated, though, in a longitudinal equivalent chart as they definitely do not have to stick to the ecliptic, and thus converting them becomes really difficult. I mean not if they are just a little oob, like 25 or 26 degrees, but for example my EROS is on 54 N. How on earth (or in the sky ) am I meant to convert THAT?

Only -- and I mean, ONLY -- because he and I both have TISIPHONE at 32N -- did I convert that once, given the calculations up to 23º were done for me using an online calculator.

... but the remaining 11º were a DOOZY.

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Ceridwen
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posted September 18, 2015 02:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What do you mean by "11°"?

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Aubyanne
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posted September 18, 2015 03:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aubyanne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ceridwen:
What do you mean by "11°"?

Well, I was JUST about to show you, and ... slip of the finger. And now it's all gone. I mean ALL gone. I must've spent two hours extrapolating the remaining 11° of each minute of arc from 23° to 32°.

Granted, I ended up finally creating a shorthand, which was a 'cheat sheet' of each, rounded up.

Too complicated to try and explain now. Let me see if I can't find the thread which prompted it. I doubt I had my notes there, but may've copied SOME of it over.

This ... well, I'm glad it wasn't something REALLY important.

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Aubyanne
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posted September 18, 2015 03:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aubyanne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Alas. It's all gone. No copies anywhere. MAN! I feel like a dolt!

But here's the thread.
http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum35/HTML/002908.html

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Ceridwen
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posted September 18, 2015 05:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
ahh, too bad.


After giving it some thought so, I feel even more sceptical about longitudinal equivalent charts as I did yesterday. They surely are intriguing but it is like mixing apples with oranges. the declinations are an own coordinate system, their own dimension, and while I am all for using parallels and contraparallels I remain doubtful and hesitant about simply projecting them onto the longitudes and treat them like they actually were longitudes, including other aspects like trine and square.

The conjunction and opposition of course are valid, as they are a mere reflection of the parallel and contraparallel and might even be helpful in understanding the concept of orb in declinations.

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LeeLoo2014
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posted September 18, 2015 06:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LeeLoo2014     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This is really happening, right? This point of reference where you can sit and view your Moon in Pisces on the sky really exists, theoretically. It's just a change of reference point. In this case, I don't see why this chart isn't equally valid. It is not just a symbolic transposition. Or I am looking at it the wrong way?

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I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

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Ceridwen
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posted September 18, 2015 09:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Leeloo,

I wonder about this... really,

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Ceridwen
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posted September 18, 2015 09:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If the Sun is on 23 degrees Southern declination, it will ALWAYS be in Sagittarius or Capricorn, hence the equivalent degree in the zodiac.

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LeeLoo2014
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posted September 18, 2015 09:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LeeLoo2014     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Is there any place on Earth where you can actually stand and visualize it in Cap?

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Ceridwen
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posted September 18, 2015 09:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What do you mean?

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Ceridwen
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posted September 18, 2015 09:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
For example. the Sun declination

18th december 2015: 23°22 S
26th december 2015: 23°22 S


The Sun is changing direction at the tropics and moving "downwards" again, hence it will be on the same declination again, some time later (in fact at the antiscion-degree of the Sun of 18th december).

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