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Author Topic:   So if people are permanent--or temporary--transits...
yungang_grotto
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posted October 29, 2015 07:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for yungang_grotto     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Given that closely interacting with other people can affect the course of our lives quite profoundly, in many different domains--financially, health-wise, emotionally, spiritually, inhibiting or enhancing our other relationships, motivating or detracting from our careers, etc... how can we best address the impact somebody has on our life in an even-minded way, adopting and applying the principles of astrology to inform our decisions and actions in relation to other people? To what extent is a decision to move in together, create more space, visit occasionally, or break off ties with a person the 'correct' decision, astrologically speaking--and can we observe significant improvements and changes in our lives once we've removed them from our sphere of influence (or brought them closer)? How often/to what extent can astrology help us personally to corroborate/justify such a decision?

Each synastry and composite is vastly different and unique, demanding different treatment and considerations--this i know. However, I've been encountering information which confirms certain hunches I've had that, for instance, a certain person could get me into trouble financially--or cause my health to suffer--or compromise my relationship with my child.

This is where, personally, my tendency to

a) irrational fear of scenarios which are both unlikely and mostly impossible to control
and
b) desire control over most aspects of my life

can be, perhaps, more to my detriment than my personal benefit, overall...

However, it is very difficult to talk myself out of a realization (likely true!)-- that a certain person is affecting me negatively--is a 'secret enemy' (see:significant 12th house overlays), or likely to disrupt my finances (their Uranus opposing my Jupiter, or their South Node in my 2nd house, for instance).

My Virgo South Node is largely to blame for my worry; at my worst, I am fearful and critical, nitpicking and blowing small issues way out of proportion, worrying they will cause death at the worst and dismemberment of some kind at the best... At my best... well, that's a different story!

Anyway, the point of this thread is really to inquire whether you have encountered aspects with associates, friends, lovers, parents, children, colleagues--etcetera--which have caused you to react in some specific way within the context of the relationship to either avoid negative manifestations of an aspect or enhance positive ones. I'm also curious whether you see people as transits, really--in that other people REALLY affect our lives? Because it seems so strange that a person can just show up and turn everything upside down and leave again and they begin to right themselves--yet are forever changed in their course, at least a little--given the energy which has been applied..

I feel knowing how others might affect us is one of the ways in which astrology is eminently practical and useful so I'm very interested to hear stories (i know it is a broad subject).

For instance, my mother's Uranus is on my South Node... whenever i have a health scare, she is the exact wrong person to talk to. She is super impatient with my concerns, making me more and more scared... her Chiron is also near my North Node so she can at times counsel me in fantastic ways very much in keeping with my life's path--but when I'm feeling the weight of that Sooth Node fearfulness, she is not really there to support me though she tries to be in some ways. Anyway, I'm learning not to go to her for this! It's complex though because that's obviously not the only aspect at play and we have things to learn from one another in this regard. It sure puts a strain on our otherwise quite lovely relationship though, when I'm legitimately sick but tending towards the hypochondriac side of things and she is mega impatient...

Another, perhaps better but also more obvious example is my recent break-up (ongoing! Argh). He is so clearly detrimental to my life path in many ways. I would have learned this, astrology or no--yet it helps so much in sticking to my guns to KNOW his Saturn is on my ascendant--to REMEMBER how difficult it is to see eye-to-eye given the heavily aspected/afflicted Mercury.. to understand that we CAN'T peacefully be in the same room together UNLESS we have sex to break the tension given the Pluto/Mars square in Scorpio and Leo... knowing this would be a baaad idea because I'll get sick because I'm crossing my own intuitive boundaries... aaand because there's nothing worse than giving false hope to a Cancer (moon)... etc.

Got stories?

I'm particularly interested in financial issues. Whether people in your life have affected your finances and how that has played into the grand scheme of things... whether your finances rebounded or suffered when they had left, if they left, etc... or whether, like a transit, it simply evolved you along your path.. and you viewed the financial help or burden as a teacher. I'm inclined to do so (i suffered a heavy loss during this last relationship). That's my personal line of inquiry right now, maybe deserving its own thread... but would appreciate any insight at all into any of this

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Randall
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posted October 30, 2015 11:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Bump!

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yungang_grotto
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posted October 30, 2015 12:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for yungang_grotto     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
TMI?

Not enough substance? Not enough charts?

Thanks Randall

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Vajra
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posted October 30, 2015 07:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Vajra     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
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yungang_grotto
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posted October 30, 2015 08:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for yungang_grotto     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That's all very wise and helpful. Thank you!

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yungang_grotto
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posted October 30, 2015 09:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for yungang_grotto     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It is a good moment for me to read this because i can also be guilty of the other thing... allowing astrology to enhance or reinforce erroneous, rose-coloured perceptions of relationships whose energy in practise is... well, much less than the ideal proposed by isolated aspects which, as you say, have infinitely variable manifestations...

For instance, I was just going over the synastry between my daughter's father and I, and I noticed, somehow for the first time, that his ascendant is conjunct my Sun/Moon midpoint, and my Venus is conjunct HIS Sun/Moon midpoint. And so i thought, hey, i should get in touch. What a beautiful relationship.

Now, our relationship IS a good one--but i haven't seen him in person for almost 4 years. And that's why it is good!-- there's a series of excellent reasons for that distance. Nevertheless, we text and email and each of us nurses a love and appreciation of the other--which thrives best in the imaginal realm. He is a deeply wounded person who, when i last left him, had not taken the necessary steps to healing which would have enabled him to act with true compassion/empathy--and i was, at the time, more willing to take abuse than i am at present. We've both likely changed since then, so i take that into account.

Still, i see these charts and i see his Venus on MY ascendant and all the beautiful glorious stuff... Saturn square my nodes (gloooorious), Jupiter conjunct my NN... etc... and i think-hey, i should email that guy. Maybe strike up a conversation. He would like to hear from me (i know it's true).

But reading your reply I'm like, no, yungang (except my real name there), you are romanticizing based on astrology again.

It's tempting to involve myself in relationships just so I'll have some sweet interpersonal astrology to mull over! That's no good. It's not my ideal application of astrology by any means, and I'm aware it's not thoroughly healthy.

However there is a point at which astrology ITSELF enters the picture, and as an interest/means of understanding, is visible in the charts--and i think this bears considering. What prompts me to use it in this way? Is it promoting deeper understanding of the energies at play? It's a mixture of things for me. Ultimately i think it helps me address things in a balanced, understanding way... to dissect and reassemble facets of other people and myself, and our relationships, and come to peace with that which is.

It seems that acting on it over-much and fretting about it generally lead to feeling like a chicken with my head cut off, strangely enough... non-ado being the most effective course, non-doing being the ideal way to get things done.. we can observe and witness astrology and let the unfolding of the cosmic energies play on us and play our parts within it--enhancing our appreciation for life as it is and knowing that we rarely have even a portion of the whole picture so long as we are grasping out of a feeling of lack or longing or attachment...

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yungang_grotto
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posted October 30, 2015 09:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for yungang_grotto     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Also, i should clarify--i haven't personally broken something off because of any single aspect or how it MAY affect me... and I wouldn't advise doing so... for me it's been a combination of observing the thing happening, and realizing that this is encoded into our chart interplay, and understanding the implications of continuing to relate with that person would likely continue in the same way, partly because of my observation of reality and partly because of the astrological evidence that to continue with the relationship would mean to invite that energy into my life in a regular constant ongoing way.

That's kinda where my line of questioning was meant to focus; realizing the implications of associating with certain people, and taking steps to preclude or change course to avoid certain outcomes. I believe that can be informed by astrology, but indeed, that it generally only serves to reinforce actual observations made through relating directly with the other person... because much as we may study astrology the lessons and meanings must still be experienced in order for them to have any effect on us, to heal, teach, and affect us in every way... life must be lived.

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yungang_grotto
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posted October 30, 2015 09:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for yungang_grotto     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Pretty sure i worded the thread opener totally wrong.

It's of course not a good idea to make decisions based solely on the charts... but I'm just thinking about the extent to which other people affect our lives and wondering how best to mitigate negative effects--probably not the best tack to take, if we're taking law of attraction into account. Focus on problems, not solutions! --wait it's the other way around. ahh geez

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Vajra
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posted October 31, 2015 04:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Vajra     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
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yungang_grotto
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posted October 31, 2015 11:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for yungang_grotto     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mhmm...

Fear of the inevitable as an excuse for perpetual laziness... yes, it's a thing. I don't blame you for avoiding such stuff.

It's helpful for me to reflect on--the MOON-NEP conjunction in Capricorn sorta lends itself to that particular pitfall-- was reading Pat Geisler and she noted Moon in Cap is particularly prone to fearfulness and needs lots of very grounded reassurance as a child if they're to grow into effective secure adults. I'm only about halfway effective so I'll have to complete the work of reassurance of actual reality myself... and with the help of firm assertions by folks like you!

Still--tricky. And with the present Saturn-Neptune square I'm afraid I'm experiencing a resurgence of old demons. Nothing insurmountable of course! ...

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Vajra
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posted November 03, 2015 08:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Vajra     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
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llewsacm
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posted November 03, 2015 08:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for llewsacm     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yungang, you have helped me so much so I feel obligated to give my two cents on this.

I've used synastry to look and strengths and challenges with co-workers or managers in the past. I have an example of a higher up in my line of work...we had several squares in our synastry. I could see his natal make-up, what was important to him, and how we could potentially bump heads (ok, thats the Aries ram channeling through me now...lol).

His natal make up displayed a certain energy, where he would hold others to the same standard as he viewed it. He came into work at 5am, and didn't leave until after 6pm. Every. Single. Day!

His natal make up displayed an energy where he expected others to operate like he did in the business world, and we were totally different in that respect.

I found out about this early on in our working relationship, and decided to give him the benefit of the doubt. A few months later, these energies came to the surface. I had the knowledge of his natal chart and our synastry to know how I should handle the situation. I was able to find a way to work according to my own business ethic while bending to satisfy his idea of how work should be done. We found a happy middle ground. Best part is those challenging aspects between us? I learned and I grew from the interaction! I used my knowledge of astrology to apply something positive to the business relationship. Isn't that what many of us who study want from it? I view it as a tool to help me get further, and stronger, and better equipped to deal with life challenges, instead of dismissing it as something else...like I would before I taught myself the gift of astrology.

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llewsacm
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posted November 03, 2015 08:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for llewsacm     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
...and so it sounds as if you have a heavy Neptune influence in your natal with your comment about seeing rose-colored situations. There is nothing wrong with that! If you know this is how you are hard-wired, you can use it as a tool, no? You can take that information and see the more raw side of a relationship, event, confrontation and tap into your more sober side to help you. Especially when you have a synastry or transit where that side of you is activated, right?

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yungang_grotto
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posted November 03, 2015 09:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for yungang_grotto     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Vajra--more excellent advice! Yes, it's so important to remind myself that I'm likely being way too hard on myself most of the time... It's mainly an unconscious thing, it's so deeply ingrained... lunar... but when I can address it and begin to consciously activate the self-love and gentleness and enjoyment it's good...

Decision making is a bit touchy for me as you surmised I guess? The 12th house Libran Venus strikes again... but I hear the wisdom in your words--the stoicism of merely sticking to a course and seeing how that develops, with all the attendant possibilities being faced rather than avoiding eeeverything for fear of doing it wrong. Must dive into life! Thank you. I'll remember and apply the energy of that.

llewsacam-- thank you for your wise inspiring story, and for the support <3 Appreciate the solidarity! It's good to hear that you were able to use your astrological understanding of this person in a subtle way to reach a compromise. I think understanding others astrologically gives us an edge which allows us to have more forbearance, compassion, and flexibility within a given situation than we would have if we were left to our impressions of them which were formed without that insight... and if we can use it to our advantage and foot the benefit of all, leverage our chart factors and theirs for the most beneficial outcome... that's awesome!

I wish my issues were more on the rose-coloured side of things in many ways.. but you're right that is a strength of mine, I have an optimistic and dreamy streak which serves me in good stead and I can harmonize my no-nonsense with my rosy pop

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yungang_grotto
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posted November 03, 2015 10:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for yungang_grotto     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
friend shared this and I thought of your advice, Vajra. https://instagram.com/p/9KUqE2xkWZ/

It's maaybe cheesy but true/helpful! I was considering today what the c world would look like if we were all truly happy and secure and content with ourselves. We would be treating one another so beautifully..

i want to be part of that. I have been there and I can tap into the feeling of wholeness, rightness, amazingness--in this moment! And I deserve a beautiful life and positive relationships, yadda yadda ok so I'm not all the way there yet. Maybe deserve isn't the right word--I can create it though!

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yungang_grotto
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posted November 03, 2015 10:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for yungang_grotto     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Also this was good medicine for me... i laughed and then I cried with the whole importance of forgiving myself vibe. Hard to explain. Such silliness.
http://www.buzzfeed.com/mikespohr/people-are-tweeting-their-most-awkward-moments-and-it-is-cri?utm_term=.en4r5N6kqQ&sub=4065672_7239727#.gwAZq73Yy8

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Wild Horses
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posted November 03, 2015 10:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Wild Horses     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yungang, I empathize with you so much. I have a 12th house stellium which includes Venus. Sometimes I can feel lonely in a sea of people, and I seem to carry this inner loneliness that I have to force myself to shake off. It's hard to open up my soul and share my inner self in a relationship because the sense of vulnerability is overwhelming. My heart's deepest longing is just to be seen, truly seen. To have our soul be known and understood, that's the holy grail of love.

About your question, I do what you mentioned. Speaking directly on finances, an example would be things I learned about my husband's Leo Moon in my 2nd house. Once I understood that how I handle finances can affect him emotionally, I made sure to be extra sensitive to it. I'm financially responsible by nature, but I try to make a point to be extra so in ways that he cares about because he feels emotionally secure when he knows he can trust me in financial matters. His Leo Moon in my 2nd really wants to feel stability and respect in those ways from me.

An example not related to finances, but sort of similar to what you mentioned with your Mom, is his Saturn in my 12th house. With me having Sun, Venus, Mars, and Mercury in my 12th, it is a very important house for me. His Saturn there is one of the most painful aspects between us. I've learned over the years that I simple CANNOT show my vulnerable inner self to him. He just turns into a living incarnation of Saturn if anything involving the 'inner self' or anything 12th house related is involved. My inner self, inner thoughts, deepest feelings, inner psychological aspects, etc are all locked away from him for self protection because he just handles them in too much of a Saturnalian way.

By contrast, T puts his Jupiter and Venus in my 12th house. It's a day and night difference and makes me feel understood and loved in a way I've never known. He makes me feel 'seen'. There is a trust there that when it comes to the most vulnerable parts of my soul, he will 'handle with care'.

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yungang_grotto
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posted November 04, 2015 11:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for yungang_grotto     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ohh, WildHorses, that Saturn in the 12th situation sounds so difficult! I am not sure who T is but I'm glad you have somebody in your life who gives you that feeling of being able to stretch out and let your light within shine!

In my solar return this year (in 9 days!) the moon will be in my 2nd house--and they say the solar return begins to take effect 20 days either side of the actual birthday... so i know my emotional security is going to be linked to finances and material things... as well as my body (recalling what I said earlier about the 2nd house being about more than finances--but finances are a pretty huge piece of physical well being in this day and age...) that has already begun. So yeah just to speak to what you've said, I big time feel you on that one! It's lovely that you can be so sensitive to his needs and so understanding (emotional reactions to finances are sometimes frowned upon, though of course it's totally natural, especially with a position like that )... it's great that astrology has helped you to understand this. Now if only he could be as sensitive to your inner life...

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angel4845
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posted November 04, 2015 12:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for angel4845     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
i have been experimenting on transits for the past month and really observing and discovering certain situations what other people are being influenced at the current moment of an event that takes place.

you are correct every composite, synastry, natal birth chart is different and uniquely on there own. I believe there isnt a specific formula of a couple meant to last forever or a happy on going relationship or friendship or career or health situation. i think we have to take into account of transits, synastry, birth charts, progressed charts, solar returns etc. and really decide why is this person in my life? what are they here to teach me? why are they here to decieve us? why we feel an intense spiritual sexual attraction? what the event of transit has caused us to go through in aspects to our natal including progressed natal etc.

i' m not sure if im answering your question lol but your thread is something i can relate to at the moment and that is exactly what i' m going through at this very moment trying to figure okay if this person is my enemy then why do they keep showing up in my life? what are they here to teach me? what is the contract here? you know what i mean?

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Sun Capricorn, Moon Aries, Libra Rising

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yungang_grotto
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posted November 04, 2015 12:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for yungang_grotto     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by angel4845:
i have been experimenting on transits for the past month and really observing and discovering certain situations what other people are being influenced at the current moment of an event that takes place.

you are correct every composite, synastry, natal birth chart is different and uniquely on there own. I believe there isnt a specific formula of a couple meant to last forever or a happy on going relationship or friendship or career or health situation. i think we have to take into account of transits, synastry, birth charts, progressed charts, solar returns etc. and really decide why is this person in my life? what are they here to teach me? why are they here to decieve us? why we feel an intense spiritual sexual attraction? what the event of transit has caused us to go through in aspects to our natal including progressed natal etc.

i' m not sure if im answering your question lol but your thread is something i can relate to at the moment and that is exactly what i' m going through at this very moment trying to figure okay if this person is my enemy then why do they keep showing up in my life? what are they here to teach me? what is the contract here? you know what i mean?


totally know what you mean, and that's where it gets really interesting, because we can look at the relationship as holistically as possible and see how it is furthering our understanding of the universe, and all of its subtleties... the intricate workings of this magnificent universe has brought these people into our lives, and no matter who they are or what their energy, it is a profound gift and an exquisite opportunity to apply our personal power... The universe, by focusing these certain issues in our awareness, through the particular structure of our relationship(s), is inviting us to address them with all the tools and understanding which we have... and the opportunities for compassion and enriched understanding are there at every turn. It's up to us to hone our awareness to see it as such. I think this speaks powerfully to the effectiveness of an attitude of gratitude giving us the opportunity to be empowered by the situations we find ourselves in... no matter how intense it is, if we take responsibility and acknowledge that we are in a unique position, an ideal position for our unique selves, at every single moment--we banish regret and what-if and if-only and why me?! and step into our power. Paradoxically, everything is as it's meant to be and this gives us freedom to create and take full responsibility for our next move...

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Keela
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posted November 05, 2015 02:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Keela     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by yungang_grotto:
However, I've been encountering information which confirms certain hunches I've had that, for instance, a certain person could get me into trouble financially--or cause my health to suffer--or compromise my relationship with my child.

...certain person is affecting me negatively--is a 'secret enemy' (see:significant 12th house overlays), or likely to disrupt my finances (their Uranus opposing my Jupiter, or their South Node in my 2nd house, for instance).


May I ask what the astrological signs were for your three examples there? Or what kind of signs there'd be for such, the way I can't remember reading anything particular about financial influence or such right now at least.

Ah, sorry, you brought up one example further down. I guess I never considered Uranus opposite Jupiter for finances, having that natally in a T-square with Saturn.

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yungang_grotto
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posted November 05, 2015 01:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for yungang_grotto     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I would like to know more about it too, Keela...

Another thing with that person was that since our ascendants are conjunct, we experience transits to the house cusps and through the houses at the same time, doubling/tripling/exponentially increasing the energy because the planets also transit the composite houses at those times. For instance, Saturn just crossed our second house cusps in early Sag. It so happens that his Saturn is at 0 Scorpio and my Saturn is at 0 Capricorn. Hence, our composite Saturn is on our composite 0 degrees Sag and conjunct our second house cusp(s).

So it was our Saturn return as a couple, as well as the notorious Saturn entering natal 2nd house thing. It was really rough. Not a windfall ..
But a good lesson...
and something to kick my lazy natal grand trine into gear (almost)...

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angel4845
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posted November 05, 2015 05:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for angel4845     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by yungang_grotto:
totally know what you mean, and that's where it gets really interesting, because we can look at the relationship as holistically as possible and see how it is furthering our understanding of the universe, and all of its subtleties... the intricate workings of this magnificent universe has brought these people into our lives, and no matter who they are or what their energy, it is a profound gift and an exquisite opportunity to apply our personal power... The universe, by focusing these certain issues in our awareness, through the particular structure of our relationship(s), is inviting us to address them with all the tools and understanding which we have... and the opportunities for compassion and enriched understanding are there at every turn. It's up to us to hone our awareness to see it as such. I think this speaks powerfully to the effectiveness of an attitude of gratitude giving us the opportunity to be empowered by the situations we find ourselves in... no matter how intense it is, if we take responsibility and acknowledge that we are in a unique position, an ideal position for our unique selves, at every single moment--we banish regret and what-if and if-only and why me?! and step into our power. Paradoxically, everything is as it's meant to be and this gives us freedom to create and take full responsibility for our next move...

yes yungang i agree to everything you've said!

------------------
Sun Capricorn, Moon Aries, Libra Rising

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