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Odette
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posted November 03, 2015 12:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Odette     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm not sure what's going on but.... sigh

Ok. I'll start with this. I have the following aspects with someone in synastry:

His Sun (9 deg, Leo) trine my Saturn (9 deg, Sagittarius)
His Jupiter (14 deg, Leo) trine my Sun (12 deg, Aries)

My Sun (12 deg, Aries) conjunct his Saturn (12 deg, Aries)
My Moon (19 deg, Cap) and Merc (18 deg, Pisces) - in aspect to his Uranus/Pluto (19-22 deg, Virgo).

Our Mercuries trine -- in Pisces (mine) and Cancer (his) - and grand-trining his Neptune, in Scorpio.

His Moon (27-29 deg, Gemini) conjunct my ASC (29 deg, Gemini)

His Mars (6 deg, Scorpio) conjunct my Pluto (6 deg, Scorpio)

Our NN/SN axis conjunct... Both with Taurus NN and Scorpio SN.

The End.


So....We had a good relationship for a few years, then we had some misunderstandings - but I assumed we're still friends. I went through some serious things and he was nowhere to be found - so if anyone has reasons to be upset it would be me.
But I'm not upset. I'm mostly indifferent. However, I am still respectful and have fond memories of "what was".

He, on the other hand... Well.... I needed his help on something, so I had to ask. And he did do what I needed him to do --- but his attitude towards me is highly dismissive and disrespectful.
I guess I am asking myself: "Does it really have to come to this?"... "Does he really have to get on a high horse and act like a total prick, when he was at fault in the first place?" sigh...

I am just surprised, considering the aspects we have - and his own natal chart, that he is capable of being such a coward... and further, I'm just sad that we can't have a normal, mutually-respectful relationship.

He does not in any way acknowledge that he owes me an apology for not being there for me, some years ago. And he also expects that I should forget all about this... plus he *expects* respect/admiration, but gives -zero- respect in return.

Our careers used to be in a similar area. I have veered off into a somewhat different area. He seems very critical of all my my life choices, whether personal or career related. But he doesn't voice his criticism either!
So it comes out as this strange, silent, passive-aggressive snobbery.

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Odette
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posted November 03, 2015 12:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Odette     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't even know what I'm asking. I am just angry.

He needs to grow up. He is in his mid 40s!

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yungang_grotto
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Posts: 1073
From: red river valley
Registered: Mar 2014

posted November 03, 2015 01:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for yungang_grotto     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hmm... but what were the misunderstandings years ago? If you skip over that part you're missing part of the story... if there is a big misunderstanding with a friend, to the point where i feel disrespected or unsafe, i really can't be expected to "be there" for them no matter how hard things get, and holding a person to a personal standard of conduct can bring pain and disappointment...

it sounds like you are holding a grudge against him for not "being there for you" and he probably senses the grudge. You have an energetic part to play in this relationship--but nobody is at fault. You're both doing the best you can with what you've got, right? So try to release him from any extra blame/shame/guilt or debt which you may be tempted to heap on him. He isn't worse than you, you aren't worse than him... it's not doing you any good to keep score and it certainly isn't working for him either. Gotta just walk away when that's the mindset. I know, I've been there. When it's "I'm right, I did right, you are not as right as me"--it's time to totally disengage. Because there is no truth in the blame game. And it sounds like that was what you did years ago (disengaged). And it sounds like now you've called on him to help you and he has helped because he felt obligated but nobody is ever happy to do things just because they feel obliged. If there's resentment it will show--and there WILL be resentment if they're feeling guilted into it.

Try to check your assumptions also. Do you KNOW he's judging your career path? Or is this something you're reading into liberally/guessing about/projecting? Because maybe he isn't. Maybe he is. Either way, the important thing is that YOU value and enjoy what you are doing. I know it sucks when people seem to be looking down on you and judging you. It's never ever appropriate to judge another person unless you've been in their shoes. But they can't touch you if you are secure in yourself. Don't let em bring you down. You are in the perfect place on your path.

A question, astrological: what's his Saturn doing? Edit: Ohhh it's on your Sun. Ok.. well you are going to feel judged by him, very weighed upon and unable to shine your light in general. That's not a soft aspect at all. And Mars conjunct Pluto goes a ways towards explaining the rage.

Just remember, for your own happiness: it is not up to you to fix him or judge him or decide anything at all about him. He's probably going through personal stuff, maybe he's got pride stuff... we've all got stuff, we're all still learning, don't matter our age... always learning. Everybody's lesson involves self love which ultimately enables a greater capacity for loving others well... that's my take atm...

He might have been cold because he's always distant with people he considers being 'from the past.' Apparently the 12th house rules ex lovers, also ex friends... maybe he has an afflicted 12th.. maybe it's super hard for him to re-connect. Could be so many natal chart factors at play. A few good aspects in synastry won't make up for a difficult natal configuration being triggered, by aspect or by progression.... and there will be more in the synastry which would give more clues... Nodes conjunct can just mean you were born close together. It's powerful--no doubt. And it should be easier to reach an understanding than with many folks, ¡n some regards at least... but not an exceptional sign. Mercury trine Mercury--again, very nice... wondering again about his Saturn, and your Mars... but progressions could tell the story too...

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yungang_grotto
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Posts: 1073
From: red river valley
Registered: Mar 2014

posted November 03, 2015 01:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for yungang_grotto     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You say you're respectful and indifferent--but you also say you're angry and think he should grow up. Sounds like you gotta be honest with yourself, forgive yourself for the raw emotions you are feeling. That will facilitate forgiveness of him also and create space for real respect to grow between you.

When you say you assumed you were still friends... but for some people a substantial disagreement with a friend makes the relationship totally untenable, unbearable. We live in strange times, dissociative... he might have been very affected by those misunderstandings.

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yungang_grotto
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Posts: 1073
From: red river valley
Registered: Mar 2014

posted November 03, 2015 01:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for yungang_grotto     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:

He does not in any way acknowledge that he owes me an apology for not being there for me, some years ago. And he also expects that I should forget all about this... plus he *expects* respect/admiration, but gives -zero- respect in return.

Our careers used to be in a similar area. I have veered off into a somewhat different area. He seems very critical of all my my life choices, whether personal or career related. But he doesn't voice his criticism either!
So it comes out as this strange, silent, passive-aggressive snobbery. 


That'd be Saturn on your Sun.

It is an opportunity for you to examine whether you yourself respect your path and that which you are doing, to be confronted with this kind of synastric energy. Not someone you want to spend every day with, but potentially a teacher--the kind that fills your backpack with rocks or whatever... not easy, but possibly rewarding to examine the feelings he evokes in you.

It doesn't mean what he does is fair or right--or wrong. It's just that your Sun--your essential life force--occupies the same point as his Saturn--his sense of grim responsibility, restriction, and unremitting judgment.

Astrology is good for revealing how nobody is at fault and everybody is different... and we all play on each other in different ways.

His Mars on your Pluto is going to bring up explosive transformative energy within you. You probably are aware of this, astrologically speaking, since you chose to include this aspect? There could also be unspoken sexual tension which exacerbates matters.

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yungang_grotto
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Posts: 1073
From: red river valley
Registered: Mar 2014

posted November 03, 2015 02:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for yungang_grotto     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
With his Moon on your ascendant you identify Ruth his emotional nature which causes more pain for both of you because in some ways you're very much alike. He doesn't want to judge you so harshly, because in fact he feels in tune with you in some basic ways--so there's probably a lot of self-judgment and difficulty going on within him too...

hope all this helps

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Odette
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posted November 03, 2015 03:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Odette     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well what he did is something that I won't simply forget, because it is too serious.
So he should be aware of that and ask for forgiveness eventually (I'm patient though... Maybe he will wake up to himself in a few more decades on that).

The misunderstanding is regarding an email that was sent to him by a well-meaning friend in my name (that he still does not know was not from me). Considering the seriousness of our relationship - one stupid email, is not a good excuse for his weird behaviour.

And.. It's true that I am angry now, but before I asked him to do that "something" I was calm.. and I was nice in my emails and call to him.

What I asked him to do - was something he kind of owed me anyway. It's not like I asked him for a favour, as such. But since people can be unreliable... it's still a big help that he did it quickly, properly and sent it to the right people.
I mean... I'm still grateful that I can count on him, I guess.
But, I'm disappointed that he can't have a normal conversation with me.

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Odette
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posted November 03, 2015 03:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Odette     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
But you're right about a lot of things. Thank you so much for taking the time
I will read it all again and write up a longer post on my computer.

quote:
it sounds like you are holding a grudge against him for not "being there for you" and he probably senses the grudge.

Yes that's true!
He does sense it and he probably feels guilty.
But wouldn't the non-cowardly thing to do - be to - own up to his behaviour, and call a spade - a spade, and say sorry?

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DopGang
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Posts: 1158
From: <--------- over there.
Registered: Jun 2015

posted November 03, 2015 06:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DopGang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm going to be kind of basic here.

Leo/Gemini can be great, but it can be brutal.

I think Leo gets misunderstood too, which could be their own fault. I find that if you hold them accountable, they disagree and you expect an apology when they don't think one is needed. Yes, then pride steps in and they'll go to the ends of the earth before an apology is given.
I guess what I'm saying is that I don't think they are pride swollen, judging a-holes or no one would like them.
But if you start making demands (indirectly or not), they'll turn ugly quick. Or if they think that there's no reason to be upset with them like you are. That'll do it too sometimes.
Not knowing the entire situation this is my guess. He has loyalty to you but he'll be damned if he's giving an apology when he has no guilt, doesn't feel it's necessary, and especially if it's being expected of him. Apologies come from the heart and if he's not feeling that he did wrong, it's not in his heart to ask forgiveness. It won't be given out under pressure or as a formality. If a Leo apologizes then there's a good chance that it's sincere.

Then, believe it or not but Gemini punishment for being upset with you can simply be silence. They value communication and when upset may simply disconnect that line. For moon would be emotional communication disconnect.
Then sit back and watch the confusion eat you alive.
Combine those and it's pretty rough.

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Odette
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posted November 03, 2015 05:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Odette     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well he'd have to be a sociopath to have no understanding of HOW that was wrong.

But you know what? You might be right.

There will come a day when I will break it down for him, so he understands WHY it was and will always be wrong.

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Odette
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posted November 03, 2015 05:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Odette     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you DopGang!
You might be right... He might be a sociopath.

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DopGang
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From: <--------- over there.
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posted November 03, 2015 05:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DopGang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Hey! I'm glad that I could help!
Hopefully you can find peace with that whether or not you get what you want from him.

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Odette
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posted November 03, 2015 09:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Odette     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You both helped a lot

You know... I think these aspects we have simply don't go well together. On the one hand there is too much sexuality/emotion... and on the other hand, all the Saturn energy (because we also have it in composite and the first meeting chart) --- is very professional/cold/detached/focused on "work" - to the exclusion of all else.

Maybe he handled this the best way he could. I guess he did try his best. The situations he was placed in as a result of our relationship - are situations that a woman could manage with flying colours.

But he is not a woman, and not in touch with his anima. He's a boys boy.. for the most part - and (as we are still living in patriarchal times) he was educated to be "male" in this world - and that's all he can ever be.
He is also in a different generation to mine (close to 20 year age gap). Which emphasises his "traditional" masculinity even more so.

It's sad in a sense that he has two boys and no daughters. I really think having a daughter would've helped him become a better person. But now I'm just rambling.

It's all been said and done as far as I'm concerned. You can't change someone at this age... and I won't be attempting it.

Thank you again for helping me clarify my thoughts guys!!

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Aubyanne
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From: Tinseltown, Hollyweird, The Multiverse
Registered: Sep 2014

posted November 03, 2015 11:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aubyanne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Okay, just to play devil's advocate here, just because someone has a much higher empathy or empathetic response than another, does not make the other a sociopath. That's a gross exaggeration that's misleading at best, and libelous at worst.

There are two basic forms of empathy -- cognitive and affective. The former is where we can reasonably determine what sort of response should be given in a situation, provided some background experience. The latter (affective) is what allows us to call upon actual emotion in conjunction with having experienced that emotional state before. Those who are 'low in empathy' are more likely to have cognitive over affective empathy. Those who are accused of 'being a sociopath' tend to have a much higher threshold in this area, disallowing them from reacting instinctively.

In some cases, empathy isn't natural, and has to be taught. I've had to do a lot in this area with my boyfriend, who, like me, has issues with affective empathy, and much higher cognitive empathy. My husband, on the other hand, has VERY high affective empathy. We often seem like aliens to him; he's very deeply emotional, while we're more like the Vulcans of the 'family'. It's taken a lot for everyone to be adequately considerate of, and LEARN how to be truly empathetic with one another. Of course, it's absolutely been worth it.

I just thought I'd throw that out there, as I kinda hate to see the 'oh, they're probably a sociopath' 'diagnosis' tossed out when, really, it's more likely to be an incompatibility at the form of empathy experienced and expressed level. Sure, such an individual could be psychopathic spectrum, (or a sociopath) but that's hardly enough to determine it. Not that we don't all know this. Y'know?

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Odette
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posted November 04, 2015 12:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Odette     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
^ I took that back... if you read my last post

I don't actually think he is a sociopath, since he does care about me, and has helped me on a practical level.

He is just ... hmmm... male lol
Yes... He is very "male".

It seems I don't find masculinity attractive - when it's over-emphasised. I prefer those who are more balanced in their feminine and masculine energies.

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Aubyanne
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posted November 04, 2015 12:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aubyanne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Odette:
^ I took that back... if you read my last post

I don't actually think he is a sociopath, since he does care about me, and has helped me on a practical level.

He is just ... hmmm... male lol
Yes... He is very "male".

It seems I don't find masculinity attractive - when it's over-emphasised. I prefer those who are more balanced in their feminine and masculine energies.


D'oh! Sorry, Odette. Foiled by the lack of refresh again.

Yes. My husband has moods of being very 'male', too. And I want to knock him into next week. So, it would appear I'm none too fond of a man who's too 'male', either.

To clarify, he'll get egotistical, domineering, and controlling; as if he's right, and everyone else is wrong. And you're just supposed to kowtow and go with it.

Noooooooo. Not me, thanks. Not my bag, baby. His girlfriend digs it, so, I pretty much 'hand' him off to her when he gets too 'male' like this. (They have a kinky relationship that supports the dynamic. So everybody's happy.)

On the other hand ....

My boyfriend and I stayed up entirely too late this past weekend, while we were holding down the fort and taking care of the kiddo (well, the teenager -- she's thirteen) since my husband was at a comic convention, debuting the first copy of the comic book they're all developing. He wrote the screenplay, and he and my boyfriend (the letterer) have been developing it into a comic book. Very cool project, actually. Bet you didn't know that there were two female double ace fighter pilots -- in Russia, no less, in World War II. So, it was Hallowe'en, and we had to manage the home front.

Well, my boyfriend was one of the most active working background actors in Hollywood for the past two decades; he's been on EVERYTHING in some regard, honestly. He was regaling me with tales of some terrible sitcom in which they pretty much had him in every office scene. He ended up doing a silent bit the director loved completely off-the-cuff -- because the lead actor misjudged the distance of their blocking, smacked right into another actor -- and doused him with coffee. He ended up incorporating it into the scene (because he's a pro like that) and everyone was really happy with it, and kept it in the final print.

Turns out that the reason he was inducted into the Screen Actors Guild at all was Martin Sheen -- of all things. And, OH, the story that goes along with that! But, I digress. It was the film -- 'Last Rites', he'd said it was called -- in which the director asked him (as a federal agent -- he's often playing law enforcement, given his military career) to pull a vehicular stunt in which it ends up vertical to the actor, who's kneeling upon the ground, so that the headlights end up lighting the scene. THEN, he's supposed to leap from the driver side, his gun trained on the lead actor.

Whaaaaaat the ... ?

AND, of course, he was crazy enough to do it. But ONLY in the utmost safety. AND, of course, he pulled it off. He even offered to reshoot the scene with a drift, because his actual vehicle is a Nissan Z, and they're known for being performance vehicles that can do these crazy stunts. But they were thrilled with what they got.

All of it conveyed in his usual way, with his silken, mellifluous voice, with that incredible articulation, and the 'Mid-Atlantic' idiolect which pegs him for being the erudite, consummate gentleman that he is. That is what really hooked me. To this day, I've never opened his car door -- when getting in. Or, any door, really. He's fully aware of my ability to do so. I'm a great door-opener! That's ... just not the point.

Something about this oh-so-'male' exploit of his, however, only intrigued me. Damn -- it was bloody attractive!

That's the key, I think. For me, at least. I'm so used to men talking dirty and making me feel objectified. It's a phenomenal feeling to, instead, be gently and meticulously undressed by a former officer, with the words, 'O, creator, thy work is truly magnificent. I am humbled.' He means it, too.

It's elevated my entire concept of seduction, sex, and physical intimacy. It was a tricky, often complicated start, rife with misunderstandings and confusion. But, oh, goodness, when we finally hit our stride ... !

Really, more men need to embrace being true gentlemen, rather than simply being 'male'. I think most of us females are getting a bit tired of the gambit.

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DopGang
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Posts: 1158
From: <--------- over there.
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posted November 04, 2015 09:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DopGang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey I learned about Empathy! Thank you!
(I'm NOT being sarcastic by the way)

I've always questioned myself. It turns out that I'm empathetic. Just Cognitive, not affective. At least most of the time. It's kind of funny actually because I'll LITERALLY be thinking in my head, "ok. What is the appropriate response right now?" It always confused me about myself. Sometimes it's affective!

Anyway, still glad that we could be of help Odette. Maybe this all can even help you in how to approach him, if you wish to.

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