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Author Topic:   North Nodes n' Noviles (and other harmonic synchronicities)
yungang_grotto
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posted November 14, 2015 03:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for yungang_grotto     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm considering the role of the fifth and ninth harmonics in synastry (again).

I've noticed that, as Dawn Bodrogi says in her article here
http://theinnerwheel.com/2010/03/27/breathing-refined-air-the-esoteric-aspects/

the novile, and to some extent, the quintile, express themselves best when we as individuals are prepared to express and experience more directly and explicitly the more refined or higher vibration of the spiritual reality in which we are always participating, with varying degrees of awareness/awake-ness to it. They'll always be affecting us/available to us, but the difference between a more mundane and a refined/spirit-centric or highly creative existence seems to be, largely, awareness. We unlock possibilities undreamt of when we can awaken within the dream of our lives and access the grace and power available through these harmonic aspects.

This need for refined awareness seems especially true of the novile; when we are awake to the underlying pulse of energy and spirit in our lives, the noviles wake up too and their evidence becomes more apparent. For example, as I wrote on this forum a few months ago, I was blessed to have participated in a powerful ceremony this summer, in which a good friend was also participating. We've known each other for years and had a good deal of tumult in our relationship, involving her sleeping with my daughter's father when I was away, etc. Low vibes, hard feelings, you know.. But none of that really matters. I mean, it has all been good learning... but I've realized we are bonded on a very deep level; this is evidenced by an unusual amount of noviles in our charts, particularly affecting the moon. We are very much like sisters, co-priestesses. I wasn't aware of how very close we are until we were both in that ceremony together, and now there will never be a doubt for me about it. We still have challenges, I suppose, but they've faded in the light of this powerful experience of honest and total awareness of our shared divinity and awake-ness--and *similarity* (we're all divine, we can all awaken, but some of us are cut from the same cloth, a little closer, perhaps, and a ninth harmonic conjunction (novile) seems to evince that powerful feeling of recognition/closeness/divine similitude).

So with this awakened awareness, though the alignment of our spirits may always have something of an ethereal quality to it, we were both aware of it at once, and it became manifest in a more concrete way for us and has begun operating regularly in our interactions, where we cut right to the meat of the matter, so to speak, and experience ourselves as spiritual beings having a human experience much more quickly when we get into conversations... less beating around the bush, so to speak...

I'm curious, therefore, having given that extensive example... about how to interpret a novile between the Sun in one chart and the North Node in another, for instance. We can agree that Sun-NN conjunctions have an undeniable attractiveness, positivity and draw to them, yes? So what of a conjunction in a ninth harmonic chart? I would think it would be a more subtle, but no less profound indicator of serious spiritual compatibility on a core level.

Of course it's no surprise to some of you that I'm referring to this thing with this person from the Composite Squares to the Nodes thread. The plot is thickening! There is his Sun novile my NN, as well as his Neptune quintile my NN. My Sun is bi-quintile his North Node. My Mars squares his Neptune and his Nodes (his Neptune is conjunct his South Node). His Jupiter and Uranus square my nodes, and my Saturn/Uranus are conjunct his South Node, so there's a definite groundedness to the connection, and significant challenges with his Neptune/South Node on my Saturn and squaring my Mars... important lessons for me in controlling my Martian temper though... as well as a distinct esoteric flavor to the whole thing. My Venus is quintile his Neptune, pretty near exact.

I'm at the point in my life where I'm not looking for concrete as much as spiritual unions, so the esoteric harmonic aspects have importance for me, I guess. I want to experience on those refined levels, I'm growing too weary of how heavy energies of attachment/aversion, clinging, etc. get me down, and want to experience the kind of friendships and relationships which are based primarily on a mutual connection to the spirit of love and goodness... which will help me learn and grow and become more refined in my awareness of the need for reverence for and communion with the earth and the heavens, walking with grace in our place as connectors of those energies...

It's tricky though when that spirituality is felt so deeply and yet there are all the practical things and more difficult and heavy energies within me which involve longing, insecurity, desire, pride... all these things which needn't be problematic but become so when an unrealistic hope is ignited. The midpoint pictures for the composite with this person are pretty Neptune heavy, Uranian, Moon=Saturn/Pluto.. heavy, volatile. All the things we've already experienced. So I'm trying to remain moderate and level, not getting too caught up in romanticism and seeing these connections as connecting me to greater forces and not a thing to strive after/get over attached to in and of itself.

A challenge for me! His Juno on my North Node seems an important teacher. I have a feeling (a fear? a hunch? a useless prophecy?) I'm not meant to be with anybody in that Juno kinda way in this lifetime, so maybe this is just a kind of relationship which can work in the way that IS meant for me... distant, depressing, full of illusions, but ultimately enlightening and harmonious? Lol...

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todd
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posted November 14, 2015 03:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for todd     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

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yungang_grotto
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posted November 14, 2015 06:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for yungang_grotto     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hmm that's an interesting perspective. Have you observed that in a lot of synastries? It sounds like that quality in the composite you describe could have come from elsewhere too but I will definitely keep an open mind to this possibility.

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hypatia238
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posted November 14, 2015 10:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hypatia238     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yeah Todd interesting perspective there but *I can see what you mean, I like.

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yungang_grotto
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posted November 14, 2015 11:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for yungang_grotto     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I guess my perspective has been that quintiles bend the world in your favour, yes--but it's not something which I would have considered individualistic when it's occurring synastrically. Thinking back I can fit it in though. If you're both interested in creating something then if it flows together it's great but if it doesn't it isn't so great... it's actually contentious and disappointing.

hmm.

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yungang_grotto
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posted November 14, 2015 11:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for yungang_grotto     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't know if i see the quintile as something we struggle to do so much as something which springs forth when conditions are right, and conditions do become right if we only whisper a request for it to be so--the naturalness and grace of it seems really integral to me. But again--could be many things!

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Ceridwen
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posted November 15, 2015 06:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I experience quintiles differently. They are really fun, that spark of creation, even a push to "create" or just dancing through the rain. Sometimes a little reckless maybe and disregarding the consequences or whatever is deemed appropriate.
It`s like quintiles are walking to "their own tune", they are quirky and maybe a little crazy(making), but have that intriguing expressive vibration to them.


I agree however that if there are cross purposes involved, it might be disrupting "the dance", as every partner wants to lead their way.


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todd
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posted November 15, 2015 04:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for todd     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

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Aubyanne
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posted November 15, 2015 04:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aubyanne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sorry. Can't agree to oversimplifying synastry like that. I've found plenty of 'getting it on' as well as 'hitting it off' in synastry. So, while cute, I don't think that's necessarily the case.

Composite is a different animal, yes. Absolutely. The animal created when both agree to merge their energy. But that's where the debate rages. Is the composite sex? Isn't that the Love Chart? Or maybe just the relationship? From the start, or when it's become A Relationship?

That's why synastry can't be discounted. It's always operating, period. The composite kicks in once there's a conscious agreement to merge.

I've had plenty of experiences where the composite never activated.

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todd
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posted November 15, 2015 04:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for todd     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

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todd
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posted November 15, 2015 04:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for todd     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Aubyanne:
Sorry. Can't agree to oversimplifying synastry like that. I've found plenty of 'getting it on' as well as 'hitting it off' in synastry. So, while cute, I don't think that's necessarily the case.

Composite is a different animal, yes. Absolutely. The animal created when both agree to merge their energy. But that's where the debate rages. Is the composite sex? Isn't that the Love Chart? Or maybe just the relationship? From the start, or when it's become A Relationship?

That's why synastry can't be discounted. It's always operating, period.
I've had plenty of experiences where the composite never activated.


" The composite kicks in once there's a conscious agreement to merge. "

I have repeatly read this before and it is invalid. many times I have been able to interpreted experiences the partners had before they were together. I often can pin point the time they come together and very often pinpoint the time the relationship dissolves.
I have never seen anyone be able to tell these type of things with synastry. of course after the fact it is easy to say oh this and this were happening so this and this happened. but I always read of synastric astrologers asking first.."when did you get together."synastry needs outside guidance to understand the timing.
sorry girl you simply do know how to use composites .
I am surprised as you profess to understand quantum theory,as composite validates(or are validated by) aspects of quantum theory.

my take on composite is that composites are the mathematical representation of the interactions of the natives auric vibrations. these vibrations are inherent to life and as such a composite exist a priori, regarless of if the natives meet or not. that is why a composite of a natal and a moment chart work.
the mundane image I use is that of two rocks thrown into a placid pond. concentric waves(vibrations)emanate away until the hit the other wave .then these two waves create a third wave. this wave's timing is a function of the two waves but is independent of them also.

too often as astrologer we rely only on what we read. I have come from a scientific background and have gained most of my knowledge by research.... astrology is not written in books, it is written in the celestial sphere.

rahu

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todd
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posted November 15, 2015 04:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for todd     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

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Aubyanne
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posted November 15, 2015 05:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aubyanne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by todd:
sorry girl you simply do know how to use composites.
I am surprised as you profess to understand quantum theory,as composite validates(or are validated by) aspects of quantum theory.

I'm not surprised, as you clearly don't, 'rahu' -- that's for damned sure.

You may also want to come down from your high horse, todd. You're looking a little ridiculous up there. Most of your predictions are vague, with your delineations confusing at best and overcomplicated at worst. I can barely follow most of what you say and have come to ignore it.

Sorry. I know that's not a very positive thing to say, but, maybe if you started using a spell checker, put some more thought into what you post here, and actually read back your own posts, you'd see how convoluted, unnecessarily complicated, and often misguided they are -- 80% of the time. I'll give you that 20% where you share some insightful information.

But most of the time, man. It's just slogging through whatever you're writing. So, you'd best not tell me that I don't know how to do anything in a field in which I run circles around you, sir. And with very little effort.

Actually ...

'cause I'm not honestly sure it's worth it or not.

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Aubyanne
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posted November 15, 2015 06:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aubyanne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Incidentally, where did you study quantum theory, todd?

I studied under Victor Galitski and Charles Clark at the Joint Quantum Institute -- deriving Schrodinger's Equation (both TD/TI), the Feynman path integral, Dirac notation, superposition principle, atomic frequency, superconductivity, time-evolution operators, quantisation and quantum wells -- namely. Then special theory of relativity -- time as the fourth dimension, Lorentz factors and transformations, spacetime diagramming -- with Larry Lagerstrom at Stanford.

In case you were wondering, as I 'profess' to understand quantum theory. Though, really, I don't. That'd be foolhardy. Even the best quantum theorists -- Wolfe, Greene, Cox -- even Kaku -- don't really understand quantum theory -- if we're approaching it using Feynman's principle. And I'm kinda a fan of that. Keeps me humble.

As to composites, I'm gonna say I've got a fine understanding of them. I read Robert Hand. (Obviously.) I also studied directly under this guy named John Townley in the mid '90s.

So, I dunno -- maybe he didn't know composites, and I was gypped.

But I'm thinking not.

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hypatia238
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posted November 15, 2015 06:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hypatia238     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by todd:

] Psychologist have long noted that genius' tend to have unconventional childhoods, often with some type of trauma. it is as if the aspects of genius can only come out when the individual is forced to out of cultural "normalcy."


Interesting..I could see that specially thinking of chaos theory and how order comes out of disorder.

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hypatia238
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posted November 15, 2015 06:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hypatia238     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
So it turns out that I have SUN quintile Dejanira! ??? how to interpret that one huh...

Sun quintile Dejanira by 0d44

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todd
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posted November 15, 2015 06:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for todd     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

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hypatia238
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posted November 15, 2015 06:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hypatia238     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Aubyanne:

In case you were wondering, as I 'profess' to understand quantum theory. Though, really, I don't. That'd be foolhardy. Even the best quantum theorists -- Wolfe, Greene, Cox -- even Kaku -- don't really understand quantum theory -- if we're approaching it using Feynman's principle. And I'm kinda a fan of that. Keeps me humble.

My husband is a HUGE fan of Feynman! haha, he is the genius who loves playing the bongos, he loves talking about him. Its interesting since your birth dates are a little under two weeks apart and you both admire him a lot.

But you are right the best quantum physicists are very humble about their knowledge and understanding of QP.

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Aubyanne
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posted November 15, 2015 06:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aubyanne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Geniuses don't actually tend to have traumatic childhoods. They can. What's more interesting (I think) is how we've found a smaller segment of otherwise neurotypical brains to have developed 'savant' behaviours upon receiving damage of some sort. Physical, rather than psychogenic.

We can't say this outright about geniuses because of the tendency to study the childhoods OF established genius creatives. There's a bias. We're not studying the traumatic childhoods of the girl working at the In N' Out, or the boy robbing the liquor store. Rather, we want to look at Poe and Hitchcock (in the case of an old study from the '80s). That's interesting.

Unfortunately, we can't discount the -- even high IQ individuals -- who lack motivation, or the organisation to deliver a creative product, or even consistently. It's not something we can reverse-engineer too confidently here. Of course, we'd all love to know what makes genius. But the answer will likely be sprawling.

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Aubyanne
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posted November 15, 2015 06:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aubyanne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by hypatia238:
My husband is a HUGE fan of Feynman! haha, he is the genius who loves playing the bongos, he loves talking about him. Its interesting since your birth dates are a little under two weeks apart and you both admire him a lot.

But you are right the best quantum physicists are very humble about their knowledge and understanding of QP.


You know, that IS funny. I wonder where his SCHRODINGER is. Mine's in 21º Cancer, right on my MENTOR; it's quincunx my FEYNMAN, which is 2º conjunct my SNODE. I wonder what your husband's is doing?

FEYNMAN (7495)
SCHRODINGER (13092)

It's just SUCH an expansive field. I loved how Feynman basically said how, anytime you find someone who says they have an expert level understanding of quantum theory -- they're lying. I was sold. That's exactly the kind of approach I wanted to take. And there are so many brilliant minds crunching away at it. I'm just in awe of all of it.

The past few years have been rather stunning for the field. Not necessarily in its total advancement, but in some ways, incredible progress -- the Higgs-Boson -- and in other ways, kind of a downer -- no s-particles. But I believe that CERN has some magic in it yet.

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hypatia238
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posted November 15, 2015 07:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hypatia238     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Aubyanne:
Geniuses don't actually tend to have traumatic childhoods. They can. What's more interesting (I think) is how we've found a smaller segment of otherwise neurotypical brains to have developed 'savant' behaviours upon receiving damage of some sort. Physical, rather than psychogenic.

We can't say this outright about geniuses because of the tendency to study the childhoods OF established genius creatives. There's a bias. We're not studying the traumatic childhoods of the girl working at the In N' Out, or the boy robbing the liquor store. Rather, we want to look at Poe and Hitchcock (in the case of an old study from the '80s). That's interesting.

Unfortunately, we can't discount the -- even high IQ individuals -- who lack motivation, or the organisation to deliver a creative product, or even consistently. It's not something we can reverse-engineer too confidently here. Of course, we'd all love to know what makes genius. But the answer will likely be sprawling.


You are right Auby as trauma halts healthy development in the brain often leading to poor emotional regulation and difficulty focusing and is why ADHD gets misdiagnosed often with the real problem being trauma that needs to be processed and healed. Traumatized brains have LESS grey matter in them than the average brain but meditating daily over time can help repair the brain.

People with hx of trauma are a lot more likely to develop mental illnesses.

Hell, severe trauma can lead to splitting and dissociative states, multiple personality disorders and make you vulnerable for mind control..

"trauma especially affects one of the body’s key stress response systems, the HPA (hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal) axis. For example, the hippocampus, a brain region involved in memory and emotion and rich in receptors for stress hormones, has been shown to be smaller in traumatized adults – including adults traumatized as children – than in those without such history."

I would love to see the study he read though about certain traumatic childhood conditions leading to the development of a genius mind. I am thinking the study probably specifies more than what he explained. I have read about brain injury resulting in the activation of certain gifts that were not there previously.

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hypatia238
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posted November 15, 2015 07:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hypatia238     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Aubyanne:
You know, that IS funny. I wonder where his SCHRODINGER is. Mine's in 21º Cancer, right on my MENTOR; it's quincunx my FEYNMAN, which is 2º conjunct my SNODE. I wonder what your husband's is doing?

FEYNMAN (7495)
SCHRODINGER (13092)

It's just SUCH an expansive field. I loved how Feynman basically said how, anytime you find someone who says they have an expert level understanding of quantum theory -- they're lying. I was sold. That's exactly the kind of approach I wanted to take. And there are so many brilliant minds crunching away at it. I'm just in awe of all of it.

The past few years have been rather stunning for the field. Not necessarily in its total advancement, but in some ways, incredible progress -- the Higgs-Boson -- and in other ways, kind of a downer -- no s-particles. But I believe that CERN has some magic in it yet.


He has Feynman conjunct his Southnode right under 2d.

Further, his Feynman squares his AC and his DC-Mars-Uranus stellium (by 2d his Uranus and less than 2d the angles and mars).

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hypatia238
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posted November 15, 2015 07:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hypatia238     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by todd:

My take on composite is that composites are the mathematical representation of the interactions of the natives auric vibrations. These vibrations are inherent to life and as such a composite exist a priori, regardless of if the natives meet or not. That is why a composite of a natal and a moment chart work.

I like your perspective on how it ties to our energy field as a unit or our auric vibrations but if we have never met in this dimension the expression of the composite will not manifest in this dimension till we do bc is our minds and awareness of each other that activate the expression of the composite. If I have never talked to you then I am not thinking of you and unaware of your existence in this dimension so composite is dormant till we interact.

I take it you are of the school of thought of Theravāda ?


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Aubyanne
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posted November 15, 2015 08:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aubyanne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by hypatia238:
I like your perspective on how it ties to our energy field as a unit or our auric vibrations but if we have never met in this dimension the expression of the composite will not manifest in this dimension till we do bc is our minds and awareness of each other that activate the expression of the composite. If I have never talked to you then I am not thinking of you and unaware of your existence in this dimension so composite is dormant till we interact.

I take it you are of the school of thought of Theravāda ?


That's more my experience with it, H. In fact, I was rather blown away at how quickly our composite 'deactivated' just by our sort of deciding not to be 'of each other's energy' anymore -- if you follow.

It felt very ... variable. Most of the time, it just wasn't happening. In those rare cases it was, hey, it was pretty potent. But, most often, it was inactive.

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Aubyanne
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posted November 15, 2015 08:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aubyanne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by hypatia238:
Hell, severe trauma can lead to splitting and dissociative states, multiple personality disorders and make you vulnerable for mind control.

That is strangely a pet research topic of mine. I'm not even sure why, but it's oddly a very precious subject to my boyfriend. He knows partially why, and, in some ways, is even baffled. It's ... intriguing.

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