posted December 08, 2015 06:27 AM            

... the orb's too wide. Way too wide, in many cases.

And yet, despite the wide orb, even if it's technically still within orb, we're saying -- no way is that being felt like THAT -- at such wide orb.

But it is! By some strange sorcery, some black magic, it absolutely is operating, impacting, and being decidedly felt.

But how?

There are several explanations for what can give an otherwise dud of an aspect a whole new life. Everything from dignity to crossing the horizon, involving a peregrine planet, carrying light from a point at tighter orb, to being part of a greater configuration.

posted December 08, 2015 07:19 AM            

I have never come across an example where the feeling you described was there but neither of the above mentioned were present.

Oh that and possibly the "fixed solar-arc-synastry".

posted December 10, 2015 07:26 AM            

For example I was always taken aback by the wide orb in a synastry of mine of

his Mars trine my Venus (4-5)
his Venus conjunct my Antivertex (4-5)
his Pluto trine my Moon (4-5)
his Pluto square my Saturn (4-5)

Yet I did feel those keenly, much more than I usually feel aspects with that wide of an orb.

I noticed then that a) they were of the same orb and b) that this orb was the same as our age difference, which led me to investigate the solar arc between the two natal.

It turned out, that

his sa Mars trine my sa Venus 0°07
his sa Venus conjunct my sa Avx 0°41
his sa Pluto trine my sa Moon 0°48
his sa Pluto square my sa Saturn 0°39

(and possibly some asteroids )

It was just too apparently glaring at me all at once.
Of course these will "move in step", as the solar arc is moving at relatively fixed speed (might differ about a few minutes during the course of a life, but not really much).

I also think that those might be especially obvious or important if activating natal planets, which happened for me last year when:

° my sa Venus conjunct my n Moon, and hence HIS sa mars was trine it, too (and yes I know Noel Tyl and his followers say not to use anything but hard aspects, and not to do a synastry between solar arcs, but quite frankly, why not?)

Interestingly enough his sa Pluto was trine his natal Avx, which means MY SA Moon was conjunct his natal Avx and my sa Saturn was quinkunx it.

Oh I just see

my SA Mars is conjunct his sa Mercury and square his sa Jupiter

which is currently opposite/ square my natal Saturn

posted December 10, 2015 11:16 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Aubyanne:
What are some of your experiences? Did you ever figure out the solution to the mystery?

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Well it's always multifaceted, right? Never just one thing, more like a whole ingredients list that creates a marvellous one-of-a-kind cake.

So...one guy I was with....

The synastry was good, but that doesn't explain the feeling that our togetherness somehow brought down the heavens. The draconic picture was a little more telling, and the composite was about as intense as could be.

But still, it helps to have an astrologer there validating what I see, putting words to it.

Once, in my hair-brained search for meaning, I consulted The Secret Language of Relationships and looked up the synastry between my NN and his NN. And that spoke to the core of our situation. The larger-than-lifeness and fatedness of it all.

The author isn't afraid of hyperbole, and that's good, because sometimes the love can only be described in those terms.

posted December 10, 2015 11:18 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by alegna:
Thanks for that, Ceri, Definitely food for thought. with it

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posted December 10, 2015 12:20 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
it`s something many astrologers will not even consider valid, however I coined the term recently when I realized that if you are of different age, the solar arcs will make (new) exact aspects between you, and move forwards in time together, activating certain natal aspects.

For example I was always taken aback by the wide orb in a synastry of mine of

his Mars trine my Venus (4-5)
his Venus conjunct my Antivertex (4-5)
his Pluto trine my Moon (4-5)
his Pluto square my Saturn (4-5)

Yet I did feel those keenly, much more than I usually feel aspects with that wide of an orb.

I noticed then that a) they were of the [b]same orb and b) that this orb was the same as our age difference, which led me to investigate the solar arc between the two natal.

It turned out, that

his sa Mars trine my sa Venus 0°07
his sa Venus conjunct my sa Avx 0°41
his sa Pluto trine my sa Moon 0°48
his sa Pluto square my sa Saturn 0°39

(and possibly some asteroids )

It was just too apparently glaring at me all at once.
Of course these will "move in step", as the solar arc is moving at relatively fixed speed (might differ about a few minutes during the course of a life, but not really much).

I also think that those might be especially obvious or important if activating natal planets, which happened for me last year when:

° my sa Venus conjunct my n Moon, and hence HIS sa mars was trine it, too (and yes I know Noel Tyl and his followers say not to use anything but hard aspects, and not to do a synastry between solar arcs, but quite frankly, why not?)

Interestingly enough his sa Pluto was trine his natal Avx, which means MY SA Moon was conjunct his natal Avx and my sa Saturn was quinkunx it.

Oh I just see

my SA Mars is conjunct his sa Mercury and square his sa Jupiter

which is currently opposite/ square my natal Saturn

Anyway that is what I mean by "fixed solar arc"[/B]

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posted December 10, 2015 01:26 PM            

Yes, I know many will disagree with me on this, however that is simply what I experienced and observed. So I will simply have to agree to disagree with the rest of the world.

EDIT
I also do not base anything on online sources alone, because it is even more simply to publish anything online than it is with books offline.

I combine what I find online with a lot more reading I`ve done before and my own resarch, and the judge will always be my "logic and drive for consistency".

posted December 10, 2015 03:24 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
I know that you can use up to 6 d orbs, they are not that strong though. NOt that instantly felt.

Yes, I know many will disagree with me on this, however that is simply what I experienced and observed. So I will simply have to agree to disagree with the rest of the world.

EDIT
I also do not base anything on online sources alone, because it is even more simply to publish anything online than it is with books offline.

I combine what I find online with a lot more reading I`ve done before and my own resarch, and the judge will always be my "logic and drive for consistency".

Everyone has their own approach, this is mine.

---

That is a great approach, I use the same approuch as you.

I can understand that the solar arc synastry gives more strength to the chemistry and reinforces further those aspects in the natal synastry so it's more strongly felt yes.

posted December 10, 2015 08:51 PM            

quote:

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Everyone has their own approach, this is mine.

---

Sometimes I get a bit lost with astrology.

It's almost like reading fiction and identifying with characters sometimes....the readings are like templates that you compare to your life & experiences...and I really only need a strand of logic to be convinced, if I want to be convinced.

That's why sometimes I am flying solo, making myths and legends with the charts and numbers, and it doesn't even matter except it's the script I keep in my head, a memory that's stamped in with numbers and ancient meanings, woven into other memories with these symbolic chains. Must the chains be objective, validated-by-experts? Why?

Once in a while it's nice to forget astrology...if it becomes the medium through which I romanticize, trust, plan or make excuses...well there's living to do without that lens. Because I think for me it can keep me in my head too much. Maybe just having a strong feeling is enough, and there doesn't have to be a technical name for it?

posted December 10, 2015 09:57 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Kannon McAfee:
Declinations. Almost always.

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I am going to start paying more attention to declinations, I know Auby always brings them up too and can see why after reading this:

"It is really worth the little bit of extra effort to use declinations as they cover situations that are not so easily seen in longitude astrology and will give added emphasis to planetary conjunctions and other aspects. For example, a Jupiter-Pluto aspect in parallel of declination will be just as powerful as a Jupiter-Pluto conjunction in longitude, but astrologers who don’t use declinations could overlook this and be puzzled as to why a person with the parallel is very successful in a specific area."
http://aliceportman.com/declinations/

I have using 1 orb as suggested by Alice P:

Mercury parallel Pluto
Moon contraparallel Venus (longitudinal they inconjunct)
Uranus parallel Neptune

Isis parallel Uranus
Moon parallel Amor
Mars parallel Anteros
Neptune parallel Cupido
Pholus parallel Psyche

I have Sun conjunct Horus and Sun parallel Horus.

Speaking of Synastry my ex and I have Moon conjunct Moon but by 5-6d but his moon parallels my moon almost exact by 0d03 and I have always felt that we felt like a tight moon conjunction and felt it didn't make sense that the conjunction wasn't much tighter; it was always odd to me but now it makes sense.

I checked also our solar arc moons and they conjunct close to 2d.

We have Psyche sextile Valentine and they parallel too:
His Psyche @18d13'28
My Valentine @18d12'28

posted December 11, 2015 01:28 AM            

I think both approaches are possible (and I have been doing them both, at different times), but they accomplish different things.

If we are talking about astrology as a "science", it`s something very different than simply finding apt mythological images for an individual internal process (though there can be overlapping,w hich is probably what makes it so confusing).

posted December 11, 2015 01:30 AM            

my Moon-Uranus-parallel and contraparallel Pluto really makes sense to me.

posted December 11, 2015 11:16 AM            

I know what you mean.

Especially when things culminate in outward events, the science is proven and so valuable in explaining things. Like my husband & I with our fast marriage: composite ASC-Mars-Juno almost exact.

But when it's just feelings, meh, I'll shop around for readings that help me feel the way I want to feel, strengthening false hopes, shaping the rules around my dream. It's just mind play....and Venus-Neptune has to keep busy somehow...so why not this.

posted December 11, 2015 09:45 PM            

Also planets in fixed signs can be in parallel aspect even if one is early in Aquarius and the other in early Scorpio, well outside a square.

This is important to understand, whether we are talking about our own birth charts or synastry.

The major driving 'angular' aspects as I like to call them (not referring to house angularity, but geometric angularity, the conjunction, square, opposition) are equaled in power by parallels and contra-parallels. These two declination aspects thus form 2 our of 5 (40%) of the strongest aspects on average from chart to chart.

Some people have way more parallels and contra-parallels. Others have few if any. But I have found it the most reliable way to understand many obvious dynamics we can see well illustrated in our lives.

I knew that the interpretations of angular Mars fit me. I could relate to the competitive, goal-driven nature of Mars square Asc or at MC. However, it is not there in the longitude circle chart. However, Mars 5GEM33/21N55 IS parallel my MC 16GEM30/22N49.

I have seen this over and over and over again. This is why I don't buy the 'singleton' theories, the 'unaspected' theories, the 'void' or 'lack of' theories, because in virtually every example you can find the answers in actual aspects, parallels and contra-parallels in the planets' declination position. Such theories are ways of explaining observed planetary emphases that are not in the longitude/circle chart, but almost always ARE in the declinations, often as parallel aspects.

Turns out North and South positions are just as important as East/West ones. In fact, we cannot even locate a body or point unless we are using both axes to measure.

Just like in geometry:

You say Pluto was at 0° Libra when you were born in October 1971? Okay, point to that position in the sky.

Most people would point into an area they know should be the place of the sign of early Libra IF they have another planet or reference point there. But they'll point to range within the span that is roughly the east-west ecliptic's range (north/south). But Pluto was still about 14° north of the celestial equator then, which means you'd probably be pointing well south of its position.

posted December 12, 2015 12:07 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kannon McAfee:
There is a tendency I've noticed for some astrologers or students to stretch orbs out between planets, say Venus and Saturn to make conjunction when they are at about 9-11° separation, when in fact the real aspect that is within orb between the two is in declination (using orb 1°-1°15' or so).

Also planets in fixed signs can be in parallel aspect even if one is early in Aquarius and the other in early Scorpio, well outside a square.

This is important to understand, whether we are talking about our own birth charts or synastry.

The major driving 'angular' aspects as I like to call them (not referring to house angularity, but geometric angularity, the conjunction, square, opposition) are equaled in power by parallels and contra-parallels. These two declination aspects thus form 2 our of 5 (40%) of the strongest aspects on average from chart to chart.

Some people have way more parallels and contra-parallels. Others have few if any. But I have found it the most reliable way to understand many obvious dynamics we can see well illustrated in our lives.

I knew that the interpretations of angular Mars fit me. I could relate to the competitive, goal-driven nature of Mars square Asc or at MC. However, it is not there in the longitude circle chart. However, Mars 5GEM33/[b]21N55 IS parallel my MC 16GEM30/22N49.

I have seen this over and over and over again. This is why I don't buy the 'singleton' theories, the 'unaspected' theories, the 'void' or 'lack of' theories, because in virtually every example you can find the answers in actual aspects, parallels and contra-parallels in the planets' declination position. Such theories are ways of explaining observed planetary emphases that are not in the longitude/circle chart, but almost always ARE in the declinations, often as parallel aspects.

Turns out North and South positions are just as important as East/West ones. In fact, we cannot even locate a body or point unless we are using both axes to measure.

Just like in geometry:

You say Pluto was at 0° Libra when you were born in October 1971? Okay, point to that position in the sky.

Most people would point into an area they know should be the place of the sign of early Libra IF they have another planet or reference point there. But they'll point to range within the span that is roughly the east-west ecliptic's range (north/south). But Pluto was still about 14° north of the celestial equator then, which means you'd probably be pointing well south of its position.

[/B]

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posted December 12, 2015 04:35 AM            

exactly.

That and sometimes attribute people their feelings to a certain aspect, while they might actually be described by another aspect they did not notice.

posted December 12, 2015 05:06 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Kannon,

exactly.

That and sometimes attribute people their feelings to a certain aspect, while they might actually be described by another aspect they did not notice.

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I agree.

I'm afraid that orbs matter pretty much no matter what. At least from what I've seen. However sometimes the source of our feelings are not what we think... Progressions, your ideas on Solar Arc age difference, declinations, even house-sign comparisons, Duad chart comparisons, or something in the composite chart, could be setting off our feelings.

posted December 12, 2015 06:47 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Lotis White:

I'm afraid that orbs matter pretty much no matter what. At least from what I've seen. However sometimes the source of our feelings are not what we think...

In my experience astrology is precise and rational. And we'll find the explanation we need if we look deeply enough. Without grasping at straws... Like thinking that Venus conjunct Pluto by 10 degrees of orb is what's making us obsessed. Well maybe it is, if there's a 10 year age difference! But otherwise the answer is elsewhere.

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You and me - mind sisters. Definitely.