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Topic: MIRROR POINTS (in synastry)
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mir Knowflake Posts: 2390 From: Registered: May 2009
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posted December 19, 2015 10:12 PM
Ok, a new technique which extensively used .. MIRROR POINTS, a modern or renewed version of the classic Solstice/Antiscia points we might say.
Antiscia points: derived by mirroring the planets around 0-deg Cancer. Mirror points: derived by mirroring the planets around the 15th deg of its natural sign. This thread is about MIRROR POINTS
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The Inner Dimension This 'new' system called Mirror points finds its roots in the Antiscion points used in the ancient astrology. Also the technique of the Arabic points, Nodes and Midpoints had its influence. Jan de Jong, a Dutch astrologer, combined these views and developed his new system in 1978. The “birth chart” of the world and its supposed planet positions (Firmicus Maternus, 1551) became the basis for the calculation of these mirror points. The planets in Mundi theme are in the 15th degree of every sign founded on the thought that the middle point radiates the strongest energy. There is not much information about this Mirror point system but lots of professional astrologers in Holland have used its technique and because it is such a new technique years of experimenting will follow. Having started my astrological study in Holland I was presented with this new technique and have used it ever since. Because of my fascination with the inner dimension of our being, our soul, I combined it to the chart as the fourth dimension. In this new system the planets are mirrored around the 15th degree of its natural sign. For example the natural sign of the Sun is Leo and wherever the Sun is in the chart it will be mirrored around 15th degree Leo. It is possible to check your calculations. For example if the Sun is 9 degrees Virgo, the mirror point will be 21 degrees Cancer. The total of the two will always be 30. http://angldfd.proboards.com/thread/1537/mirror-points We mirror the Sun around 15 deg Leo. We mirror the Moon around 15 Cancer. We mirror Mercury around 15 deg Gem and Virgo (here we get 2 mirrored versions of Mercury) We mirror Venus around 15 deg Taurus and Libra (here idem) We mirror Mars around 15 deg Aries. We mirror Jupiter around 15 deg Sag. We mirror Saturn around 15 deg Cap. We mirror Uranus around 15 deg Aqua. We mirror Neptune around 15 deg Pisces. We mirror Pluto around 15 deg Scorp.
An extensive example, as an exercise;
Natal Woody Allen; Mirrored version Woody Allen; Woody's Sun 9 Sag.
^ that's 114 deg forwards from the 15th deg of Leo. And now we count backwards 114 deg from the 15th deg of Leo, so: 15 LEO - 114 deg = 21 Aries. Which is the mirror point of his Sun (as we see). For the Moon we start from 15 deg Cancer etc. IP: Logged |
hypatia238 Moderator Posts: 4148 From: Fort Collins, CO Registered: Sep 2014
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posted December 20, 2015 01:38 AM
Uhhhh I Like. So my Sun is in Virgo @28d08 so its 43d forwards from the 15th degree of Leo. So 15d Leo - 43d08 is Cancer @1d51 right? So my Sun mirror point is in Cancer 1d51 conjuncting just under 1d my Aphrodite in cancer @0d53 in the 7th. My Moon is 243d12 forwards from the 15th degree of Cancer. So 15d Cancer - 243d12 puts my Inner Moon in Scorpio @21d4 which trines exact my natal Moon.
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Astro keen Knowflake Posts: 4595 From: UK Registered: Nov 2012
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posted December 20, 2015 02:06 AM
Very interesting Mir, but I'm lost. Could someone please tell me what the mirror for my Sun at Scorpio 1.35 would be? Perhaps I could go from there.IP: Logged |
hypatia238 Moderator Posts: 4148 From: Fort Collins, CO Registered: Sep 2014
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posted December 20, 2015 02:20 AM
My Ex Sun conjuncts my Inner Moon by 3d25.My Husband's Mars-DC conjuncts my Inner moon; by 1d03 his DC and by 0d25 his Mars. His own moon is in Cancer @6d51 and his inner moon is in Cancer @23d08 conjuncting his Nessus under 1d forming a grand trine with my natal moon and inner moon. Oh wow that is why he holds grudges, specially for his mother and family. His inner moon in Cancer conjunct his nessus in cancer would facilitate holding on to the toxic memories specially in connection to mother. I suppose that Nessus conjunct inner moon can make you feel rejected or unloved by your mother and resentment builds up as you accumulate memories of when she makes you feel this way and as they added up the resentment grew. No wonder talking about her and knowing she wants to see him will exacerbate his mood to a very negative place every time. The inner moon being like a supermoon is an extremely sensitive point for him. But on the positive note his inner moon, my inner moon and my natal moon form a grand trine. His mother is not a bad person, she really isnt, but she did fail him; ignorance I suppose, a lot of it. He also has his issues with that Nessus conjuncting his inner moon which doesnt help either so they both contribute you can say to their poor bond. IP: Logged |
hypatia238 Moderator Posts: 4148 From: Fort Collins, CO Registered: Sep 2014
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posted December 20, 2015 02:56 AM
My Ex Inner moon conjuncts my Ixion exact @16d02 and under 2d all this including my name:First Name in Scorpio @14d11 Merlin in Scorpio @14d44 Kaali in Scorpio @15d08 Quaoar in Scorpio @15d50 Ixion in Scorpio @16d02 Hygiea in Scorpio @16d27 Anteros in Scorpio @16d49 Tantulus in Scorpio @17d34 His Ixion conjuncts exact my name and this squares his NODES. His cupido-moon trines his Ixion and my name and semisexile his southnode and inconjuncts his northnode.
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Ceridwen Moderator Posts: 25804 From: Registered: Jul 2011
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posted December 20, 2015 04:14 AM
Not to be confused with solstice degrees / antiscia though.This technique is purely symbolic while solstice/ antiscia are derived from astronomical conditions. (though from then on they are also symbolic of course) sounds intriguing of course
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Ceridwen Moderator Posts: 25804 From: Registered: Jul 2011
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posted December 20, 2015 05:51 AM
Hypatia, how can you mirror asteroids, since they do not rule any sign, and if I got it right, we mirror the planets against 15 degrees of their associated sign? IP: Logged |
Ceridwen Moderator Posts: 25804 From: Registered: Jul 2011
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posted December 20, 2015 06:28 AM
quote: Originally posted by Astro keen: Very interesting Mir, but I'm lost. Could someone please tell me what the mirror for my Sun at Scorpio 1.35 would be? Perhaps I could go from there.
I round your Sun to 2 Scorpio (easier to calculate). Sun on 2 Scorpio equals 212° 212°-135° = 77° So your angle from 135° to 212° is 77° You take that number nad substract it from 135° now, going into the other direction. 135° - 77° = 58° and that is 28 Taurus so your mirrorpoint of the Sun is 28 Taurus. In the case of the Sun it is easy, as the mirrorpoint (over 15 Leo) must be always square the antiscion degree of your Sun (which is on 28 Aquarius - so yes, 28 Taurus seems to be indeed the right thing. That does not work with the other mirrorings of course, only if you mirror across 15 Leo, that it is square the antiscion-axis.) But anyway the tecnique is the same. if you count the degrees from the mirror point (15 Leo in this case) TO your natal planet, you then have to SUBSTRACT that angular distance from 15 Leo to arrive at the right mirror point).
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Aunt Anomalia Knowflake Posts: 2376 From: Pandora's Box Tech Registered: Mar 2015
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posted December 20, 2015 07:58 AM
Oh, my thread I found that site too, too bad you didn't dig out something else.I want to share something spooky... his MP Mars conjunct my nMars, 4 min 18 sec my MP Mars conjunct his nMars, 4 min 18 sec my natal Moon: Libra 29, my MP Moon: Aries 0 his natal Moon: Aries 20, his MP Moon: Libra 9 the oppostion orb identical to the second ------------------ Anomaling around since 1911. IP: Logged |
Astro keen Knowflake Posts: 4595 From: UK Registered: Nov 2012
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posted December 20, 2015 09:35 AM
Ceridwen, thank you. IP: Logged |
mir Knowflake Posts: 2390 From: Registered: May 2009
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posted December 20, 2015 05:12 PM
quote: Originally posted by Aunt Anomalia: Oh, my thread I found that site too, too bad you didn't dig out something else.I want to share something spooky... his MP Mars conjunct my nMars, 4 min 18 sec my MP Mars conjunct his nMars, 4 min 18 sec my natal Moon: Libra 29, my MP Moon: Aries 0 his natal Moon: Aries 20, his MP Moon: Libra 9 the oppostion orb identical to the second
OKKKKKK Aunt, now *I* am amazed! That ^^ is the exact same thing I thought was so spookyyyyyyyy (yesyes with my current guy from the pic u saw); My natal Mars: 19'31 Aqua My Mirrored Mars: 10'29 Gem His natal Mars: 10'38 Gem His Mirrored Mars: 19'22 Aqua !! What is the spookiest now??? And.... with my other ONE (for yearss and still but less than ^ now);
My Moon 16'31 Scorp My mirrored Moon 13'28 Pisces His Moon 11'42 Pisces His Mirrored Moon 18'18 Scorp IP: Logged |
Aunt Anomalia Knowflake Posts: 2376 From: Pandora's Box Tech Registered: Mar 2015
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posted December 20, 2015 06:41 PM
Me like!!! But my case is spookier due to the orbs More good stuff: my MP DSC-Jupiter conjunct his nMoon his MP IC conjunct my nMars (probably) his MP ASC conjunct my nSaturn-NN his MP Pluto conjunct my IC exact, ehh Within the MP synastry what catches my attention most is his Pluto conjunct my Mercury (and opposite his Neptune) and his Saturn conjunct my DSC. If the orbs for squares aren't strict then there's a t-square with my Mars and his Pluto and Neptune. His Sun square my Pluto like in our natal synastry, heh. Anything impressive in your composite? I got a Sun-Venus-Pluto-Neptune t-square, Sun conjunct Saturn, Mars conjunct Uranus (Aries). The ASC happens to fall on our IC-DSC conjunction. ------------------ Anomaling around since 1911. IP: Logged |
Ceridwen Moderator Posts: 25804 From: Registered: Jul 2011
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posted December 21, 2015 03:53 AM
Nope, no mirror-mating-here. (though there are of course some overlaps). (I`m not quite convinced of the validity of the premises that technique is based on anyway, but hey, there are more purely symbolic tools in astrology, so why not?)
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LeeLoo2014 Knowflake Posts: 17920 From: Venus cornering Neptune Registered: Mar 2014
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posted December 21, 2015 04:04 AM
My Sun 10 Cancer (the mirror). But I think this means Virgo Suns all have their mirror in Cancer. I mean the mirrors are fixed positions, for all signs.So all Leo Moons like myself have their mirror in Gemini. As far as the Sun mirror goes, it loosely conjuncts my DSC/Saturn, so there is indeed an interesting symbolism here. ------------------ I seem to have loved you in numberless forms... LeeLoo's Esotericorner IP: Logged |
Ceridwen Moderator Posts: 25804 From: Registered: Jul 2011
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posted December 21, 2015 07:13 AM
Yeah, I was a little quick, there were some interesting mirrorings just not the same planet. having said that my parents have a natal mirror of the Moon and exactly, too. interestingly my MP Jupiter is conjunct my n DESC exact and my MP Mercury1 is conjunct my n ASC (and Mars) and my MPMercury 2 is conjunct my n DESC
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Ceridwen Moderator Posts: 25804 From: Registered: Jul 2011
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posted December 21, 2015 07:19 AM
quote: Originally posted by LeeLoo2014: My Sun 10 Cancer (the mirror). But I think this means Virgo Suns all have their mirror in Cancer. I mean the mirrors are fixed positions, for all signs.So all Leo Moons like myself have their mirror in Gemini. As far as the Sun mirror goes, it loosely conjuncts my DSC/Saturn, so there is indeed an interesting symbolism here.
Yes, and us with the Neptune-Pluto-sextile will have an exact MP opposition of Neptune-Pluto. Interesting about your MP Sun. Mine is on 3 Aries (roundabout) and hence conjunct my n IC.
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mir Knowflake Posts: 2390 From: Registered: May 2009
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posted December 21, 2015 08:48 AM
quote: Originally posted by Aunt Anomalia: Anything impressive in your composite?I got a Sun-Venus-Pluto-Neptune t-square, Sun conjunct Saturn, Mars conjunct Uranus (Aries). The ASC happens to fall on our IC-DSC conjunction.
Aunt, how do you make a Mirror Composite?? The mirror-synastry wheel works. Just clicking on synastry and then choosing in the frame on the left "dutch mirror Woody Allen" and on the right "ducht mirror Mia Farrow" -> OK. BUT... when clicking on Composite I ONLY get the NATALS in that frame on the right & left (whether I click on 'use file' below or not). And I'm also aware all those charts have to be "open" first in the bar above to appear in that frame. What am I doing wrong? ----------------- I rather die in loneliness than living with the thought of you yearning for another girl which might have been a better option in life than me.
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Aunt Anomalia Knowflake Posts: 2376 From: Pandora's Box Tech Registered: Mar 2015
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posted December 21, 2015 09:28 AM
I open the MP charts, then I go to "composite->composite midpoints", then I pick the MP charts on both sides, click OK and it's done. I don't understand why you can't select these charts. quote: Interesting about your MP Sun. Mine is on 3 Aries (roundabout) and hence conjunct my n IC.
I have my MP Sun on an angle too (DSC). Exactly to the minute. Anyone else?I forgot to mention something important. His MP Jupiter conjunct my Vertex by 2 min >_> ------------------ Anomaling around since 1911. IP: Logged |
Ceridwen Moderator Posts: 25804 From: Registered: Jul 2011
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posted December 21, 2015 01:16 PM
I downloaded the program, too. Ha, so much easier and more accurate to look at the mirror point charts now. And I like the graph with the aspects much more than on astro.com So we are using other aspects, too, not just conjunctions?
If so I have a T-square between the Neptune-Pluto-opposition square Venus on the IC Neptune: 20°03 Gemini Pluto: 20°55 Sagittarius Venus: 23°52 Virgo IC: 24°58 Virgo I think it does make a lot of sense.
Well, interestingly Mr Sag has the same T-square, just with wider orbs (must be because we both have Venus in Capricorn) Neptune 9°32 Gemini Pluto 8°36 Sagittarius Venus 4°04 Virgo Interestingly the MP Neptun and Pluto is conjunct their respective natal counterparts in the synastry
my MP Pluto: 20°55 Sagittarius (my MP Neptune: 20°03 Gemini) his n Neptune: 20°27 Sagittarius
his MP Pluto: 8°36 Sagittarius (his MP Neptune: 9°32 Gemini) my n Neptune: 9°56 Sagittarius
Of course that means the composite has the Venus-Neptune-Pluto as well Neptune 14°47 Gemini Pluto 14°45 Gemini Venus 13°58 Virgo Other aspect to that T-square: Pluto conjunct Mercury 1°58 Neptune opposite Mercury 2°00 Venus square Mercury 1°11 Uranus trine Venus 3°39 Moon is part of the other T-square
Sun 3°33 Aries Mars 6°51 Libra Moon 7°07 Capricorn Saturn sextile Sun 4°37 Saturn quinkunx Moon 1°03 Saturn trine Mars 1°19
It probably is generational though I suppose? IP: Logged |
hypatia238 Moderator Posts: 4148 From: Fort Collins, CO Registered: Sep 2014
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posted December 21, 2015 01:18 PM
My inner Mars conjuncts my chart ruler Jupiter-Uranus.Inner Mars in Sag @5d51 Jupiter in Sag @5d15 Uranus in Sag @5d42 Inner Venus in Sag @6d47 My ex Eros conjuncts all that and most tightly my inner Venus. IP: Logged |
Ceridwen Moderator Posts: 25804 From: Registered: Jul 2011
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posted December 21, 2015 01:37 PM
conjunct my Mars 5.10 and my ASC on 7.04 SagAnd my inner Mercury 4.57 Sag IP: Logged |
hypatia238 Moderator Posts: 4148 From: Fort Collins, CO Registered: Sep 2014
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posted December 21, 2015 02:17 PM
quote: Originally posted by Ceridwen: conjunct my Mars 5.10 and my ASC on 7.04 SagAnd my inner Mercury 4.57 Sag
Nice!
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mir Knowflake Posts: 2390 From: Registered: May 2009
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posted December 21, 2015 04:27 PM
quote: I downloaded the program, too. Ha, so much easier and more accurate to look at the mirror point charts now.
Mine works well now too, I reinstalled it. IP: Logged |
hypatia238 Moderator Posts: 4148 From: Fort Collins, CO Registered: Sep 2014
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posted December 21, 2015 06:53 PM
What is the name of the program?IP: Logged |
Ceridwen Moderator Posts: 25804 From: Registered: Jul 2011
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posted December 22, 2015 01:51 AM
PlanetdanceIP: Logged |