posted December 30, 2015 02:10 AM            

And I'm way too close.

So, I call upon you, as I have before, in seeking guidance; more sets of eyes to see what I may miss. To be objective, where I simply cannot be.

A year ago, I felt the first strange stirrings that my marriage was going to fail, and I would be divorced by age 40. It was an odd feeling. I'd never even considered I'd necessarily get married; to contemplate divorce felt completely foreign.

But we all know that feeling when fate is calling the shots, and all we can do is cooperate. It's been that way since the start, and hasn't really concluded. It just went into hyperdrive when I met Jack.

I knew when my husband began travelling for various reasons, it was going to make or break everything. Either we would decide to divorce and both be single, or, divorce and both be in other relationships, and I would end up remarrying in the next few years. It did cement the depth of the connexion and relationship which Jack and I share, when my husband travelled prior to this Thanksgiving. Jack got a true window into the extent of my unhappiness and the problems in the marriage. He couldn't help it. I've done what I could to keep him from ever being put in a position where he felt in the middle of us, but managing to do so for nearly 6 years is no easy feat.

When my husband returned, it's been a rapid sequence of events that has forced deep reconsideration and the threat of great change. But whether it would be truly GOOD change is largely undetermined. Sometimes, it's just habituation that's hard to break. Other times, love is stealthy and adorns many masks in its attempt to avoid the pain of exposure. The fear of vulnerability leading to ultimate rejection.

Nonetheless, they couldn't have timed this more bizarrely in sync if they'd consciously choreographed it.

On the heels of a sudden proposal at Thanksgiving, my husband suggests on Christmas Eve -- without malice, and doing his best to manage his resentment -- that we should separate. He's taking into account the disparate qualities we share, the compromises we're always making, and what would lead to our best happiness. It's tough when you still love each other, and have built a life together. Unravelling it just ... feels too painful to bear.

I honestly don't know what the best decision for all involved even is. What to do. What's the right move. What is that road back to happiness.

I know that, if we reconcile, nothing will change in my relationship. He doesn't want to marry unless it's to me, and that brings out such a powerful feeling in me ... I can't even articulate it. So there's no ultimatum here. It's just what's genuinely best for everyone. And, since I only have control over me, I'm looking at this from my personal vantage.

Should I learn to accept that my marriage has failed and prepare for a new life with my boyfriend? Or do I decide that marriage is just tough, and you don't ever stop fighting?

Is it obvious that one path is smoother than the other?

Is it clear that I'd obviously have a happier marriage with one over the other?

Am I just missing it?

... Help.

Here're the synastry and composites with both; I've included a few relevant asteroids.

My husband and I:

Jack and I:

Composite with Jack:

Composite with my husband:

posted December 30, 2015 02:14 AM            

Here's the synastry and composite each progressed to the date 29 December 2015, which was today.

Jack's and my progressed composite:

And our progressed synastry:

My progressed composite with my husband:

And his and my progressed synastry:

PLEASE NOTE:

The pASC are accurate within 0° variance. The pMOONs, however, are off.

posted December 30, 2015 04:44 AM            

I have not even read your thread, just thinking finally she is starting to have this question.

I am totally out of line here, so please disregard what I am going to say, but it was my first instant thought or "sense" (almost equally strong to the other sense I got about Jack and you some years ago), when you told about your marriage, that this marriage needs to dissolve.
As I said I am way out of line here, but I say it now, cause yuo asked, it is just my feeling and probably clouded by my own belief systems, but it just feels like the marriage has had its purpose, but outlasted its selldate, and you are hanging on to something that does not even exist anymore and might even hold you back.

I am jsut putting my thoughts and feelings and hunches down here, and yes I can be so utterly totally wrong. But know that I write it just because I care for you (and because whenever I think of your marriage I feel like I am suffocating by trying to get out of a cage - I know I sometimes have strange imagery in my mind).

posted December 30, 2015 06:56 AM            

Cannot speak for it astrologically - as in, are you feeling this way only because of the transits that may be triggering new channels of thought, or other such pertinent questions.

However, I feel that if you/we attempt to analyze this strictly in the astrological sense, you may end up over-rationalising your feelings, and consequently disregarding any important message they may be telling you.

So, along with whatever astrological analysis you get as responses to this thread, perhaps it would help to ask yourself the following question. - Hypothetically, let's say, *IF* no matter what decision you take, no-one would get hurt and you would feel no guilt/burden/pain - what would you choose? (When you take those considerations out of the equation, you know your true heart's desire - whether to follow that or not, in the context of your relationships, is your choice).

posted December 30, 2015 08:07 AM            

You're not happy, neither is your husband. It sounds to me like both of your hearts and minds aren't in it anymore. If you do want to try to make it work, then you need to have a talk with him and discuss whether you are both going to make this work. If the answer from both of you is that you are going to give 100% to help try to restart your marriage, then I'd say try again with him. If it isn't, I only think it would lead to more heartache.

Also, it would seem beneficial for you to take some time to recover. You said you still love your husband but you are engaged to Jack. This doesn't seem fair to Jack. If you are engaged to marry another man, I think that your heart should be given completely to them and only to them. If Jack truly loves you and wants to spend forever with you, he will wait. But I don't see true happiness for you unless you give your heart and mind time to truly recover for the aches you're going through right now with your husband.

posted December 30, 2015 08:50 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by polkadotstars:

You're not happy, neither is your husband. It sounds to me like both of your hearts and minds aren't in it anymore. If you do want to try to make it work, then you need to have a talk with him and discuss whether you are both going to make this work. If the answer from both of you is that you are going to give 100% to help try to restart your marriage, then I'd say try again with him. If it isn't, I only think it would lead to more heartache.

Also, it would seem beneficial for you to take some time to recover. You said you still love your husband but you are engaged to Jack. This doesn't seem fair to Jack. If you are engaged to marry another man, I think that your heart should be given completely to them and only to them. If Jack truly loves you and wants to spend forever with you, he will wait. But I don't see true happiness for you unless you give your heart and mind time to truly recover for the aches you're going through right now with your husband.

Best of luck to you <3

---

posted December 30, 2015 11:24 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dancing Maenad:
Auby, I believe deep in your heart you know what decision to make. Choose the love, not the obligation. Be happy with the man you truly love. I'm so excited for you guys!!

---

posted December 30, 2015 07:26 PM            

We're here for you either way.

Just remember not to take everything too seriously...life is an adventure, after all.

I say this as a Sag Venus, with transiting Venus just entering Sag today

posted December 30, 2015 09:48 PM            

If I understand the situation correctly, you are married to one, but engaged to another. From my admittedly uninformed position, it sounds like the decision has been made, unless it was an engagement in a more poly sense.

posted December 31, 2015 10:19 AM            

it's hard to say, because it's so obvious, that both relationships are deeply felt and meaningful.
And of course they are, you spent a lot of time with your husband and there is also a very deep bond with Jack that realized itself in a strong way.

It's great to see Jupiter so prominent in both Composites!
Very beautiful.
The Moon / IC connections seem like a powerful bond for a marriage to me one can be very afraid to break.
Saturn so close to Venus and Sun could be a reason that the excitement in it is fading, though...

The Synastry with your husband looks very "matched" to me, the Libra Sun and the Gemini Sun, Virgo Venus to Cancer Venus, Scorpio Mars to Pisces Mars, your Uranian Moon fitting to his DC, his Neptunian Moon to yours.
His Uranus as DC Ruler conjunct your Sun, your Neptune opposite his Sun, if I see it right?

But love is not a puzzle.
There is less symmetric matching with Jack, but more points of intensity.
And you are a person of great intensity, one can tell.
With this Plutonian Chart (Sun conjunct Pluto, Scorpio Moon conjunct Mars and Uranus) I would think you expect a lot of emotionality coming out of a relationship...

So there is Jack's Mars in conjunction to one center of intensity, your Sun and Pluto. (Oh I know very well how overwhelming this can be and I love it)
And there is his Neptune in your second center of intensity, your Moon Stellium in Scorpio.

You have a Virgo ASC so you are probably very much into Neptunian Love anyways...
Venus conjunct NN....wow.
And he is also Cancer Sun, with Aries Moon intensity, that brings a lot of emotions into play.
Very different from the saturnian Gemini Sun.

I'm not an astrologer, just an amateur - so I can only make assumptions.

But, besides the stars, I can tell you: I deeply feel your words and your struggle!

It was painful but necessary for me to hear from it, because right now I am in a similar situation, it's just that I "am Jack".
The man I love is struggling with his marriage and doesn't find a way to end it, although after all that happened, staying in it would be joke. Or at least very hard to work through for both of them.
Saturn/Venus and Sun are very strong there so he fears to let go.
But after reading your post I can understand him better. Of course it is not easy to leave a partner you have spend so many years of your life with.
I cried my heart out when he told me he loves her still, but their conflicts are unbearable at the same time.
And he loves me too, and we have this incredible Plutonian/Neptunian Connection (but also Sun conjunct Moon) - but we both fear that all this beautiful intensity could wane after some time....and then what?

It's a tough thing, giving up a long term relationship.
Always.
In my opinion it's clear on the one side, that you absolutely can love two people at once in such situations, each in a different way.
BUT, it's also obvious, that the new person would not be in your life SO STRONGLY, if you didn't call her.

Something in you did create Jack, because you were deeply missing something, that's my opinion.
This could also mean that you feel like missing a path you should be walking on.
Your marriage had it's time, but maybe you can see yourself now more in Jack.

Anyways, I think a decision would be good.
It's New Years Eve and I'm so depressed I can't even get out of bed.....because our situation has gotten more unclear in the last days.
At some point, you have to move forward or everybody will just be heartbroken....

posted December 31, 2015 11:59 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by thegrinning_cat:
...we both fear that all this beautiful intensity could wane after some time....and then what?

---

I think that's what everyone asks themselves, when they are in one relationship, but contemplating starting another.

Will the new relationship fizzle out and end up just like the one you are already in? At least in terms of the feelings of monotony and taking-each-other-for-granted that can plague long-term relationships?

posted December 31, 2015 02:49 PM            

quote:

---

On the heels of a sudden proposal at Thanksgiving, my husband suggests on Christmas Eve that we should separate.

---

Wow. Intense. So intense.
I know nothing about astrology of course, but you know what a fan I am of people sticking together and cobbling together whatever families that work.

I don't know if J can do the 'heavy lifting' of being a primary on a day to day basis. And I know how good you two both are for the kiddo.

posted December 31, 2015 05:27 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Faith:
I think that's what everyone asks themselves, when they are in one relationship, but contemplating starting another.

Will the new relationship fizzle out and end up just like the one you are already in? At least in terms of the feelings of monotony and taking-each-other-for-granted that can plague long-term relationships?

When I was young I believed that true love would never die. Then I experienced true love dying. I miss the luxury of being able to trust feelings...or thinking feelings can be trusted. Now, in lieu of that...I trust astrology But no charts are perfect, no relationship comes with a long-term guarantee...

---

posted January 01, 2016 02:48 PM            

Secondly, I want to ask you. What is your definition of a successful and healthy relationship? Until you get clear on that, you will continue to be confused as to what is the path to follow, which man to be with.

posted January 01, 2016 04:38 PM            

thank you so much for your kind words!!! <3
You made my New Years Eve so much better in the moment when I thought I couldn't stand it anymore.

Sure, the initial excitement will wane and it's hard to obtain intensity in the everyday.
That's why Neptunian Contacts are great for relationships that include an obstacle because it keeps the dream alive.

But it doesn't have to be that way...if the outer planet energy is invested in a common goal it can lead to the highest form of commitment in a relationship in my opinion...

A project, a vision, a job, a specific passion for something....

But it happens so often that our paths suddenly head in other directions...it's hard to predict.
We all are in a constant flow of change, I believe.
And so we can grow apart even from people we love more than everything, because they don't reflect us in the way they did in the beginning.

Sure, relationships are a constant process of working through and dealing with everything we are and what we long to be. Not always pleasant and high on positive feelings.

For a long time I clinged myself on people who brought me more and more negative energy because I considered it weak and gutless to leave them.
We were so happy in the beginning!
I really wanted to work through our issues.
But sometimes there really are "irreconcilable differences". And when you know and understand them, but can't make them go away - it's better to leave.

Sometimes, the "higher goals" that brought you together in the first place, become an empty commitment.
Then it can become destructive not to let go...

posted January 01, 2016 06:49 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Belage:
And yes, "love feelings" are not the end all and be all of relationships. Feelings tend to wane, they can come and go, and come back. Something else has to hold people together, usually commitment to something greater than themselves.

---

I agree entirely.

For me -- it's respect, honesty, and the understanding of the ebb and flow of life in general. Greater commitment to something outside of myself is THE linchpin for me. I almost NEED that these days, above all. But that's ALMOST. Not entirely.

posted January 01, 2016 10:28 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Vajra:
I wonder what your subconscious mind has to say in this matter, your intuition. Doesn't it make itself known in some way? In my case, when my marriage was failing and reaching the point of no reconciliation, I started to dream of unburied corpses on a daily basis. It was unbearably disgusting. My subconscious was literally forcing me out of there. Tellingly, on the day we had our separation talk, those dreams stopped and never returned.

---

Wow! Interesting...