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Author Topic:   Please look - Need help
Koniucha
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posted July 15, 2016 05:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Koniucha     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I hope that I can get some advice. Maybe astrology can give me answers.

My daughter is almost 9. For about a year now, maybe longer, we have been going through a hard time. She had told me that she doesn't feel love for me. She has also been having bad thoughts regarding me, like she hates me. Some times she has also had anxiety when she has been near me.

Of course this has been a heartbreaking situation and I don't know what to do anymore. I tell her that I love her and will always love her, but I get sad and upset too.

She can be obsessive and has been diagnosed with adhd. I have added her chart and our synastry and composite

Her chart

Our synastry

Our composite


Please don't quote

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Belage
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posted July 15, 2016 05:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Belage     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
can you also print your natal chart by itself without all the superimposition of other charts? I always have a hard time looking at multiple charts, just my own personal weakness.

I noticed in your daughter's chart she has natal moon opposite Saturn. The moon represents the mother and she may see you as too stern and too Saturnian. Is that true? Are you very strict toward her? I need to look at your chart by itself to see what aspects you are making to her moon.

Also, your daughter's emotions are going to be INTENSE because her moon is conjunct her NN. NN can confer obsession.

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Faith
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posted July 15, 2016 06:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Her sun-Mars-Pluto-IC grand cross is an issue.

Lots of tension wound up there. Saturn on her Virgo SN may be the root of some obsessiveness and feeling that things need to be perfect for her to feel safe.

Also the Virgo-Libra cusp where her sun is on the MC may give her a certain drive towards perfectionism, wanting to be seen and respected.

I feel that her minor triangle of Mercury sextile Pluto and Venus helps her articulate her grand cross energy. Her Mercury is well-aspected and it enables her to talk her way through stress. Pisces moon in the 3H will be communicative about pain.

She is probably absorbing your pain and that is why she's anxious around you. Especially since your Mars is on her ASC, your Jupiter-Saturn-Venus is on her sun, she is picking up any aggression you feel (even towards yourself) whether you are expressing it or not.

Consider her to be swimming in your vibes.

So, if you are at peace, she will benefit.

She is telling you how she feels, that is actually a good sign in my opinion, as a fellow mother. I would much rather have my children feel okay being honest than harboring difficult emotions.

Your Neptune on the ASC and Cancer moon both match her Pisces moon for sensitivity. Maybe one solution is to try and learn to just be peaceful and quiet around each other, and in that silence have acceptance. Maybe take yoga together so there is a third party to balance out your energies, because together, two water moons can bring each other down pretty hard.

I'm a Pisces moon and the most difficult relationship of my life has been the one I have with my Cancer moon sister. I think there is more complexity to that trine than most people understand.

Also, your Scorpio sun trine your daughter's moon could make her feel too well-known or spotlighted. Pisces moons are ambiguous by nature but try to conform to others' expectations. If the expectations are beyond our limits, we suffer and self-protection kicks in, and we retreat and want to be away from people altogether. 'Just cannot handle life the way less sensitive people can. So, your daughter wanting to be away from you because you make her anxious...in a way, that is just a normal expression of her moon placement.

I wish you both well. And sorry if any of this was wrong or upsetting! I meant to be positive, because my overall impression is: You are a very good person and your daughter is in great hands. This is just part of a process.

Hope others respond!

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Koniucha
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posted July 15, 2016 06:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Koniucha     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here is my chart

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Koniucha
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posted July 15, 2016 07:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Koniucha     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Belage:
can you also print your natal chart by itself without all the superimposition of other charts? I always have a hard time looking at multiple charts, just my own personal weakness.

I noticed in your daughter's chart she has natal moon opposite Saturn. The moon represents the mother and she may see you as too stern and too Saturnian. Is that true? Are you very strict toward her? I need to look at your chart by itself to see what aspects you are making to her moon.

Also, your daughter's emotions are going to be INTENSE because her moon is conjunct her NN. NN can confer obsession.


I can be strict. I have to be mom and dad, so it's hard. But I am also quite indulgent with her. We travel the world together and she gets most of what she asks for.

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Koniucha
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posted July 15, 2016 08:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Koniucha     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Faith:
Her sun-Mars-Pluto-IC grand cross is an issue.

Lots of tension wound up there. Saturn on her Virgo SN may be the root of some obsessiveness and feeling that things need to be perfect for her to feel safe.

Also the Virgo-Libra cusp where her sun is on the MC may give her a certain drive towards perfectionism, wanting to be seen and respected.

I feel that her minor triangle of Mercury sextile Pluto and Venus helps her articulate her grand cross energy. Her Mercury is well-aspected and it enables her to talk her way through stress. Pisces moon in the 3H will be communicative about pain.

She is probably absorbing your pain and that is why she's anxious around you. Especially since your Mars is on her ASC, your Jupiter-Saturn-Venus is on her sun, she is picking up any aggression you feel (even towards yourself) whether you are expressing it or not.

Consider her to be swimming in your vibes.

So, if you are at peace, she will benefit.

She is telling you how she feels, that is actually a good sign in my opinion, as a fellow mother. I would much rather have my children feel okay being honest than harboring difficult emotions.

Your Neptune on the ASC and Cancer moon both match her Pisces moon for sensitivity. Maybe one solution is to try and learn to just be peaceful and quiet around each other, and in that silence have acceptance. Maybe take yoga together so there is a third party to balance out your energies, because together, two water moons can bring each other down pretty hard.

I'm a Pisces moon and the most difficult relationship of my life has been the one I have with my Cancer moon sister. I think there is more complexity to that trine than most people understand.

Also, your Scorpio sun trine your daughter's moon could make her feel too well-known or spotlighted. Pisces moons are ambiguous by nature but try to conform to others' expectations. If the expectations are beyond our limits, we suffer and self-protection kicks in, and we retreat and want to be away from people altogether. 'Just cannot handle life the way less sensitive people can. So, your daughter wanting to be away from you because you make her anxious...in a way, that is just a normal expression of her moon placement.

I wish you both well. And sorry if any of this was wrong or upsetting! I meant to be positive, because my overall impression is: You are a very good person and your daughter is in great hands. This is just part of a process.

Hope others respond!


I can't even tell you how much this helped. My vibes have been awful lately. I agree with you on so much

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Faith
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posted July 15, 2016 10:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Thank you, and good luck! I mean best wishes getting things ironed out and more comfortable.

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Belage
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posted July 15, 2016 10:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Belage     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Okay. Both of you are Jupiterian people, and you both have somewhat difficult Saturn aspects. Most jupiterian people do not like Saturn very much.

Your daughter's chart ruler, Jupiter, is very strong Jupiter in Sagg, but it has had its fair share of challenges in the past year with Transit Jupiter AND North Node travelling through Virgo. And let's not forget Transit Saturn has also been hitting her Jupiter by conjunction on and off. Those are yuck when you are Jupiterian.

Your Saturn/Jupiter conjunction sits on her sun, and even though the Jupiter aspect is tighter, Saturn is exalted in Libra so it's possible she is feeling your Saturn more than your Jupiter. You need to turn on the Jupiterian side more when dealing with her, not for the rest of her life, but at least when she is dealing with yucky Saturn transits. So as she is dealing with those stuff, lay off the criticism, the rules, find happy and fun things to do with her, and be her cheerleader.

Be more Neptunian too because of her moon in Pisces ruled by both Jupiter and Neptune. Which means, be happy and supportive, forgive her, nurture her, find dreamy and escapist things to do with her. Reassure her that everything is going to be okay. I agree with Faith that she picks up on your internal vibes, so turn on your inner everything will be okay Jupiter. Jupiterians are ultimately lucky anyway.

Sometimes, Chiron in the 5th can mean having a child with special needs, and if that is the case, make sure you educate yourself on this issue and stay on top of things. Don't hesitate to get help if you need it, and join support groups if that's possible. Your Chiron is involved in a T square of Mercury and the Nodes. So having a child will sometimes feels as an impediment in pursuing your life's goals, and an obstacle to your self-expression.

Both of you will be okay, but your daugther still has some challenging times coming. In October when T. Saturn will conjunct her Jupiter for the last time, and at the end of December, when she will experience a node reversal involving her Saturn/Moon-Node opposition. So be prepared to be there for her as the Jupiterian stalwart. It will be easier for you anyway because you have a Jupiter return coming soon.

I am not saying that you have to spend the rest of your life being mostly Jupiterian toward her. There is a reason why you have Saturn exalted conjunct her sun. Saturn is better embraced when ones matures, but for children, it's best not to hit them with the Old Man Saturn when they are still young.

ETA: both you will be experiencing a Saturn conjunct Ascendant transit this year. So something is going to force both of you to be a little more mature. Don't know what it is. But this is what Saturn traditionally brings when it goes over the ascendant.

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Koniucha
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posted July 16, 2016 09:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Koniucha     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you.

I really think I am a big part of this problem. Meaning, the way I feel about myself. I have been very down lately and am very sad and then mad. I have been single for years now, and sometimes fear I will never find anyone. And I have let that really take over my life lately.

My daughter is amazing and I'm lucky to have her in my life. She is mature for her age and very smart. We can definately feel each other. I can always feel when she is upset. That water moon connection is something else.

I have to save myself and then I can save us.

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Koniucha
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posted July 16, 2016 08:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Koniucha     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
So I talked to her about her feelings a bit today because her dad came over to visit. When he left, she told me she doesn't really feel love for him. So I asked her why, but her answer was so vague, like she didn't really know. She said, he yells at me sometimes. I started asking her how she feels towards other family members.

She said she feels it for her two cousins, but then later said sometimes she doesn't. She said she doesn't for my sister and brother, but does for my dad and his wife. And a little for my mom. I admit, it was confusing getting answers from her.

I just don't know what to think or do here. Sometimes it seems like she doesn't know what she is talking about.

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Faith
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posted July 16, 2016 09:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
She might be talking about the difference between people she trusts completely who make her feel warm inside, and the people she is on guard against. She may be just as attached to them, but not call it love. Maybe love is her word for "warm fuzzies."

You know at one point as a kid I loved ("warm fuzzied") my dog more than many of my relatives, because my dog was always nice and my relatives were not. I would stay up late aching at the thought of anything happening to my dog. I never did that, thinking of most of the people I knew.

I think most kids are like that?

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Koniucha
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posted July 17, 2016 06:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Koniucha     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Maybe I am overreacting. Ive been known to do that.

I just told her we all love her very much.

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Ceridwen
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posted July 17, 2016 08:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, this reminds me how guilty I felt as a child because I was thinking I was loving my Dad less than my Mom, and how unfair that was towards him.
I weirdly had mused about how it would be to lose one of them, and while I certainly did not want one of them to die, I also thought that it would be harder to lose my mom.
I must have been around that age, too, btw.
(and incidentally when learning that my Mom lost her own mother at a young age I think).

Well honestly I don`t think it really was a matter of love. I love my Dad very much, and always did, just as I love my Mom.

But what it really was about was that I was more "emotionally dependent" on my Mom, also because she was more of an autority or central figure in our family, as she was home and cooking and cleaning up and being there when we came from home to talk to us about the day, while my Dad was working.
Though he did spend much more time with us than other working dads, I am aware of that, too. But usually we would do fun-things when he was home.
So as a child I had this very clear distinction in my mind.

The crucial point is that it was not really about love.
Maybe your daughter is trying to feel out what love really is, and is in the process of learning, that love actually can be many different things or faces.


If however she REALLY does not feel love for most relatives, I wonder, I mean in some rare cases that can be a symptom of Aspergers or something on the autism spectre. But I wouldn´t go so far as of now.
And if she is very sensitive, then yes, she might reflect YOUR emotional state (I did so very much reflecting my MOm`s emotional state, which both of us understood only years later, that I was often reflecting back HER depressed moods to her, or her anxiety).

In this case she might identify with you too much, especially if there is no father really around, she is dependent on you, and might overidentify with you, but at the same time try to emotionally detach, because it`s too heavy to carry for her.
And given her age, she probably doesn`t know why she feels the way she does.


But I am no psychologist, so I probably am far off the mark.

I think the only thing you can really do is accept even that kind of emotional expression of hers and continue to demonstrate your love for her and giving her the emotional security that you will be always there for her no matter what.


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Koniucha
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posted July 17, 2016 08:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Koniucha     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yeah, I am trying hard to make sense of it, but I fear I may be overthinking (again!) and making a bigger deal out of it.

I talked to my brother about it and he said just to not make a big deal out of it.

I read upon the Asperger thing and have to say, some of the symptoms make sense. I don't know. I just feel like such a failure right now as a parent. I feel so alone and out of control

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Lucia23
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posted July 17, 2016 08:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lucia23     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think a lot of this is about communication, not about feelings. Your Pluto is loosely conjunct her Mercury, and right now, transiting Uranus in Aries opposing both, making you both feel that conjunction acutely. It's in your 10th houses, and could be connected to father issues. With your Pluto on her Mercury, she may feel pressure in the communication that's being exacerbated by Uranus touching that conjunction. You're both Saggie risings, which can make communication too candid/blunt (ala telling someone you don't feel love for them), but then you have these sensitive watery moons.

I'm glad you keep letting her know you love her, and I love Faith's advice about just being quiet together, maybe doing things like yoga or hiking. This line of discussion--TALKING about whether she loves various people in the family--doesn't necessarily reflect feelings very well. That airy Mercury-Mars trine in your daughter's chart energizes her communication in airy ways and areas, but it doesn't let her articulate what's going on with her delicate, sensitive Pisces Moon. Your Saturn-Venus-Jupiter on her Sun can be a beautiful closeness and makes the relationship important, but Sun-Saturn CAN feel stern or squelching to the Sun person, and Pluto-Mercury can feel overpowering to the Mercury person--with her strong airy Mercury, she may lash out a little or even flail with that Pluto. Saturn transiting the 12th house is NOT an easy time--when tSaturn conjuncts your daughter's 1st house Pluto at 26 Sag and sextiles her Mercury conjunction with your Pluto (around 2022), this issue could be healed and transformed in a very beautiful and powerful way in your relationship.

Is she an only child? my mom was a single mom for much of my childhood, now I am a single mom to a little girl. It is an intense dynamic. Especially if you're traveling together. As she gets older, she will need lots of freedom and (internal, psychic) space and gentleness from you to emotionally explore other relationships on her own terms.

In the meantime, nonverbal expressions of love that are peaceful and soothing. Yoga, hiking, swimming in a lake together, sweet and gentle VIBES from you to her Pisces Moon.....and just a lot of endless patience, like you're giving her now.

My daughter is only a toddler and I've been a single mom for a year and I must say, I think you're a superhero! Even with a smart, wonderful child, it is hard hard hard. I got a reading recently and the astrologer said that my sense of loneliness and isolation would lift once tSaturn moved out of my Sagittarius 12th house and crossed my ASC. I think this is true for you, too--except for you, it will happen much SOONER (my Asc is in early Cap)---for you it will happen very soon indeed, and also touch your Neptune, hopefully bringing cleansing and loveliness and more of a feeling of love coming from everywhere.

Love and hugs to you and DD.

(Edited to add: when I say my daughter is smart and wonderful, I should also mention that she's incredibly difficult and it's nonstop and I have no support--and every time she is difficult, I blame myself.)

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Koniucha
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posted July 17, 2016 10:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Koniucha     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes, she is an only child.

Thank you Lucia. You are spot on also. I think we both are pretty blunt, but so incredibly sensitive. Being a Cancer moon, I take everything wayyy to personally.

When I was talking to her, she kept saying 'I don't want to talk about the feelings anymore', so I dropped it.

You are right with the non verbal expressions of love. That is what we will do

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Koniucha
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posted July 18, 2016 07:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Koniucha     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just wanted to add that she has mentioned that this is just how she is. She also does get anxiety because of this.

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todd
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posted July 18, 2016 04:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for todd     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

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nordicsoul
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posted July 18, 2016 05:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for nordicsoul     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
maybe she thinks mother is to blame because her father is not around?

as far as my own experience and what i have read, children expressing anger toward the mother is part of separation process. she has moon-saturn and no matter how you are as a mother, a part of her filter the experience in a way that she feels emotionally alone to a certain extend. i do think this is archetypal and not necesarily reflects you as mother, but her experience of nuturing experience are not as fullfilling as she wish. it is part of her journey to learn emotional independence and that is why she was born with moon-saturn in first place..

i see your moon fall into her 8th house. although Faith did not mention this aspect, she did mention that she can soak into your emotional states. when moon fall into 8th, she feel somehow "safe" in expressing her dark feelings, as there were some unsaid acceptance of her most darkest secrets. that may be the reason she can express hate and open that way to you. in certain way, as Faith has said earlier, this is better than a child that stay quiet and say nothing...


I am not a mother so forgive me for my "objectivity", but i believe that mothers tend to feel responsible for the way their offprings develop. of course there is a degree of influence from parents, but even the best mother-father cannot control how a child process the stimulus from the outside world. you do your best with the best of your knowledge and the best of your emotions, but you are human. somedays you are sad, depressed and you cannot change that just because you want to avoid pain to your child. life is full of imperfections and if she was born your child, that was the "best" possible mother she wanted for her to fulfull her life purpose...

if you could post the table of the synastry. it is hard for me to see aspects just by looking at the chart... thanks and be patients and forgiving to yourself in first place.. even for having negatives thoughts when the small 9 years old misbehave...

best wishes

NS

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Koniucha
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posted July 18, 2016 05:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Koniucha     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by todd:
the problem here is her father. with moon conjunct the north node symbolizing you and Saturn conjunct the south node and orcus, she is under thecontrolof her father. with Jupiter on her ascendant and square to Uranus,the chances are you are not wither father,likely divorced.
her Saturn/chiron midpoint is opposed to ceres. another indicator of his interference in your nurturing your daughter.
her eros/psyche midpoint is square to orcus .

this seems to be a unnatural affection to her father.
I would post a composite of the two of them.
as I don't think the problem starts with you.
todd


I am not with her father, that is correct. We were never married. He does not see her often either, maybe twice a month. I own my own home now and live with her alone. We have been separated for years. He has never liked that I left him, but he was awful. Drunk al the time, controlling. Even though he does not see her much and does not pay child support, he continues to criticize how I raise her. He has always hated my family and criticizes them.

I can post their composite, but I do not know his birth time.

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Koniucha
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posted July 18, 2016 06:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Koniucha     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The hard part is I am also getting anxiety, Then she is, so I am. It's this viscous circle. I'm trying to calm myself so I can help her. I started yoga Saturday.

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Lucia23
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posted July 18, 2016 06:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lucia23     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
(((Koniucha)))

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todd
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posted July 18, 2016 08:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for todd     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

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Koniucha
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posted July 18, 2016 09:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Koniucha     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lucia23:
(((Koniucha)))

Thank you Lucia! This is helping me tremendously

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Koniucha
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posted July 18, 2016 09:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Koniucha     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Their composite

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