posted February 23, 2017 08:36 AM            

We had been exchanging messages and phone calls for a month or so and everything then was NORMAL. I say it in caps lock to convince myself that that wasn't just a long and lucid hallucination. Because of our own circumstances in life; things always coming up et al, it took us 3 months to actually go on our first date and it was an absolute disaster from the second we saw each other. I simply waved to him as I was coming up from the subway platform and he gave me a look like an embarrassed teenager who runs into his mom at the mall when he's hanging with his buddies. He mumbled the entire dinner and kept sweating and touching himself all over, picking at his clothes and making me feel like such a creep for being totally normal and wanting to go on a date. I cried in the bathroom because I couldn't wait to get home to do it. He apologized to me later through text and told me he got really nervous and wanted a chance to try again. It took me a while to crumble my resolve against this but my friends encouraged me to forgive his imperfections and give this a shot. Initially the romantic attraction was there. I thought he was adorable and he had been dealt a rough hand at life and so I did put in the effort to keep going.

Our second date went better in the sense that I didn't feel like a disgusting piece of crap sitting across from him the entire four hours. He talked to me like a normal human being and was even somewhat charming. Somehow I ended up in a relationship with this guy although our initial dates were a rollercoaster of highs and lows. I can count off the top of my head three examples that lead to me crying in my room and somehow along that timeline I remember the talks with my friends about settling down and getting serious, and how I'd never felt this special warm and cozy connection with anyone before. Even when I speak this with every letter bleeding contempt all over my screen I can say that somehow he has the charm of a beat up teddy bear that needs to be picked up and gently held for once in its life. Even with all my contempt I can't shake myself of the sick and twisted belief that he deserves to have the affection, commitment, and unconditional love that has been withheld to him for no reason. God has been so unfair to him at times in ways I can't understand.

But he is absolutely unloveable at the same time, at least by me. I guess while it was happening I thought maybe it was getting better, but now I see that my standards were just getting lower and lower. I praised every time I managed to have a day with him that wasn't worse than the last without seeing how my standards for myself and how I would like to be treated look like the graph results of a presidential approval rating. I just kept sinking lower and lower into hell and his unlovability became contagious. He made me question myself; if maybe it was me who is expecting something I don't deserve quite yet. Maybe I'm not doing enough. He had me jumping through hoops of emotional fire and this man is the KING of withholding, something he must have learned by following examples in his own family. His withholding of affection and icy chill towards me whenever I didn't completely break my effing back to please him broke my heart. I kept praying to God and asking him if I should stay and why this person was chosen for me. Those friends who initially encouraged me to give this a shot withdrew their support pretty early on but I either had too much pride to listen to them or felt too much like I could "fix this" at the time. And now that I've stuck with it so long I feel they've vascillated back to somehow wanting us to work it out? How sick is that?

His primary tactics for sustaining commitment is a 2 step method. The first step would be withholding affection as I mentioned before. But then the second step is what I like to call breadcrumbing, like those "I miss you" texts or coming home to find flowers on my doorstep, the way he would sing me to sleep or even just the puppy-eyed look as if he's trying so hard to remind me telepathically he's had a crap life and needs someone to forgive him. But the second I start following said breadcrumbs he realizes he still has me interested and goes back on his merry effing way ignoring me and my life.

After everything I've been through I'm walking away looking like the bad person because I don't have an endless supply of forgiveness and doormattery in my heart and well I'm sorry if that makes me a bad person but I want to go out and live in the world. I don't want to rot away in this unhappy relationship. There's so much more I could say like the time this or that happened but in the end it doesn't even matter and just talking about it makes me tired and hopeless that there is any happiness left in this world. I think I've hit the point of the bottom where I've considered just walking away from this mess of a person and not caring about the fallout.

This is our synastry chart if you'd like to have a look. I am blue and he is red. He doesn't know his exact birth time and he doesn't want me running a chart on him/us anyway so the Ascendant is merely a ballpark of about 4 hours but Cancer seems right for him based on Asc readings I've seen from others.

posted February 23, 2017 06:17 PM            

I have Venus square Saturn with my best friend one way with me being Saturn and I have seen how that manifested with me often taking a mentor-like role. Just the other day she told me, "I'm a year older than you but I always forget and end up thinking you're older than me." I thought that was a very Saturn influenced thing to say.

posted February 23, 2017 08:44 PM            

I also have Venus sq Saturn DW with someone I'm kind of in a rel with but knid of not at the moment. I fear heartbreak. Although the affection seems to be coming out slower than usual, it is emerging, he seems quite besotted by me but I just don't know if I can be committed to him, I do love him but there's just something off about it.

posted February 24, 2017 10:54 AM            

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posted February 25, 2017 01:44 PM            

Venus may be more exhibitionist for shy Saturn. And Saturn may be too restrained for "please touch me/compliment me" Venus.

I have Saturn-Venus conjunct nataly and from my own experience I can say that I can be very hard on myself.

The reason may be that people have often withheld affection from me? That perhaps I have always felt that minimalism is best when it comes to expressing love/affection? Or I feel that affection has to be earned by being perfect/flawless?

Whatever the cause,it has made me seem very independent from needing love/romance.So I am not seen as someone "lonely" or "romantic" etc. Like love is only an afterthought and nothing more.

What I have also noticed is that this view tends to extend towards those whom I have Saturn-Venus aspects with i.e.

If I am the Saturn person, I am the one who withholds affection or just doesn't show "I care" enough. And the Moon/Sun or Venus person complains.

If I am Venus/Moon/Sun, I feel like it is the other person i.e Saturn who doesn't show me enough affection or is indifferent to me

But as I get older, I have learned to distinguish between movie love and real life love. Saturn is real life and Venus is movie.

So many times aspects between partners involving these two planets suggest to me that there is a fundamental cross-wire as to what the other would like to get and what the partner ends up giving.

Saturn doesn't use up its emotional reserves, unless it is absolutely necessary. Much like the government would not legislate martial law-unless there was a state of emergency(hopefully).

But Venus often wants that "all consuming" affection and love. When especially in more bodacious signs like fire or emotional signs like water.

So its really a case of Venus trying all sorts of things to get Saturn to "feel". And Saturn reserving the depth of their feelings only when in crises mode i.e when the partner asserts that they are leaving or a breakup seems imminent etc.

Often it does happen that despite Saturn's austere nature and "coldness", these people end up attracting mates in as frequently as Jupiter does.But for very differing reasons.

Naturally as people,we are up-lifters and we hate to see another sad/suffering or in pain.

But one thing that we should perhaps ask when we do feel the need to "help" another is; did the individual ask for assistance? Or is it us who assume that assistance is needed?

Also,how much of our own happiness will we have to "give up" in order to help another find theirs?

My advice,Saturn is heavy and depressive. You can't hope to sympathize/empathize enough with someone to get him to love himself and you in a way that makes you feel good.

The best way to move forward is to be yourself and be as happy as you can be.

What will happen is that if he wants to be with you(which you have no say or control in by the way),he will try and gravitate to your level.

He will want you to rendezvous with the best part of him. And because you are not sad, depressed and beating up on yourself, he will find it hard to think of you in times that he wants to be sad/depressed.

As cliche as it sounds, it is true that we teach people how to treat us really. For they cannot consistently show their "spiteful" side if we are not in some type of emotional reverence with their negative emotional state :It just does not happen as happy,loving people don't attract emotional vampires.

But it is possible for happy people to feel guilt that they have been having an "easy" life and then take "pity" on those that are having a hard time etc.

But contrary to popular belief , "pity" does not help but hinder another really. Because you affirm the legitimate nature of where they are. You affirm the "what is". And if you do that, you tell them that this is the best possible existence they can hope for.

But if you live your own life for yourself and be happy. That message hits home. Because it is really through the example of living your life as a fulfilled happy person that they may be inspired to emulate.

Good luck!

posted February 25, 2017 10:04 PM            

And thanks too Ami Anne. Yes, there have been a lot of Uranian disruptions throughout.

fatatabata thanks for your reply. Unfortunately I can only ballpark his Asc because he doesn't know his exact birth time, so I'm not sure about that aspect.

posted February 25, 2017 10:27 PM            

He has been cruel to you and it is sure as hell not your fault.

Post his natal and let us dissect his dysfunction.