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Author Topic:   @ Kannon and others! Detailed questions about progressions and getting together
CapriciousCapricorn
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posted May 03, 2017 08:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for CapriciousCapricorn     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Kannon and everybody else who can help with my questions, I would like to ask you about progressions. Would be very grateful for your kind answers!

In these charts:

progressed
progressed to natal
progressed of A to progressed of B and vice versa
progressed of A to progressed of B and vice versa

1) Question that probably interests me most. Could it be said that interest in one-sided, if for example, only one person's progressed planets make aspects to natal planets of the other person? And who is the interested one? Progressed person or natal?
2) What are the best indicators of a start of relationship?
3) Sun square Venus. Is that bad? Does it mean something?
4) A very specific question. How significant is a combination of these:

A pr Asc conjunct B natal and pr Moon ---- basically B has pr Moon conjunct natal Moon at the same time
A pr Moon opposite B pr and natal Moon ------- A has pr Moon conjunct pr Dsc at the same time
B pr Moon conjunct A pr and natal Pluto
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EDIT:

Kannon,

I was thinking they're simultaneous..They're not. These are the orbs:

A pr Asc conjunct B pr Moon (1.05s in June)
A pr Moon opposite B pr Moon (-0.35s in June)
B has pr Moon conjunct natal Moon (0.34s in June)
A has pr Pluto conjunct natal Pluto (0.29s in June)

A pr Pluto conjunct B pr Moon (1.17a in August)
A pr Moon opposite B natal Moon (-0.50a in August)
A has pr Moon conjunct pr Dsc (-0.11a in August)
A natal Pluto conjunct B pr Moon (0.49a in August)
A pr Asc conjunct B natal Moon (0.38s in August)

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Nine
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posted May 03, 2017 11:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Nine     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My own research has shown that at the beginning of relationships three planets (Asc/Sun/Moon) and one aspect (conjunction) often make or break a union.

The absence often mean a relationship is unlikely, at that time. However, the presense is not a guarantee of the beginning of something.

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Nine
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posted May 03, 2017 11:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Nine     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Specifically, you're looking for pMoon in one chart in conjunction to nAsc or nSun in the other chart.

The other planets and aspects have their part to play, just not in the initial unifying stage.

Additionally, Paul Westran has found that Sun/Venus is also an important signifier. However, I've found this to play secondary to pMoon-nAsc/nSun.

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colorful butterfly
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posted May 03, 2017 11:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for colorful butterfly     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This is what I read and have noticed as well, it is usually the moon that is either progressed to another's sun, moon or asc. Most of the time I notice that the other persons NN is either where your progressed moon is or a natal asp is combined with the progressed moon hitting their sun, moon and asc.

For example , when my progressed moon was in Capricorn I met a guy who had a Capricorn moon but a NN in Gemini, conjunct my venus. My NN was conjunct his venus as well as my Saturn. My progressed moon in Cap was the trigger for our meeting even though it was a lesson for the NN. As soon as my Progressed moon went into Aqua , he moved away. Recently he has contacted me as my progressed moon moved into Pisces but I do have some NN things going on in my progressed chart and I am thinking he is Pisces rising seeing how one of his friends from childhood was a Pisces. My SN is in Pisces? Also my progressed moon is going threw my 6th house of Virgo and his venus is in Virgo. I am thinking we will meet again for a lesson or something due to our NN unless I get married between now and then. Not seeing it happen lol

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Beautiful_Light
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posted May 03, 2017 11:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Beautiful_Light     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by colorful butterfly:
This is what I read and have noticed as well, it is usually the moon that is either progressed to another's sun, moon or asc.

Ohh wow, that is so cool! I just checked my progressed Moon at the time I'm hoping to meet someone. My pMoon will be conjunct their natal Moon. Their pMoon conjunct Juno and Vertex. Neat!!!

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HappyNinja
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posted May 04, 2017 04:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for HappyNinja     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Beautiful_Light, I think you're going to have a wonderful time with this person.

I had my pMoon conjunct a guy's nMoon when we first met years ago. The special affinity was undeniable and we became fast friends from the first day.

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Beautiful_Light
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posted May 04, 2017 04:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Beautiful_Light     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by HappyNinja:
Beautiful_Light, I think you're going to have a wonderful time with this person.

I had my pMoon conjunct a guy's nMoon when we first met years ago. The special affinity was undeniable and we became fast friends from the first day.



Thank you HappyNinja; I think you're my new favorite person here, hehe

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Kannon McAfee
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posted May 04, 2017 04:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kannon McAfee     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You are asking about synastry and relationships. That belongs in Interpersonal Astrology. Moving it there.

------------------
The Declinations Guy
Rising Sign Descriptions

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Kannon McAfee
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posted May 04, 2017 04:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kannon McAfee     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
CapriciousCapricorn,

Your questions are not clear enough to me for me to provide what I think are appropriate answers. You may have to provide the actual charts and ask one question at a time related to them.

As to the cross-chart progressions you seem to be trying to connect and ask about, a progressed chart is the product of its natal and that native only.

If you want to understand where you are in reference to relationships, then follow your transits and progressions, not the other person's. Otherwise, you risk putting astrological analysis upon what is essentially a kind of co-dependent foundation that simply won't work.

Some tips in that regard:

- Prioritize transits over progressions. They are the actual movements of the planets now in the sky. Sometimes it is easy to think they don't show what is going on in your life. Check the declinations to see what you are missing. A single transit by Pluto (or any slower planet) in the declinations can explain a lot.

- With progressed aspects to be fully active to time windows of opportunity they must be quite tight, within several minutes arc of culmination (exact). The tightest aspects in the progressed chart (prog-to-prog, or prog-to-natal) are always the most active at any time. None of the progressed aspects you list above are within the active range for timing events with bonafide accurate points.

- The secondary progressed Asc (and all cusps) as they appear commonly calculated in charts is a symbolic fiction, not a motion of the Earth found in nature. Thus it is not reliable as an indicator of relational matters.

- To even begin to see accurate timing of progressed aspects to the (correct) natal Asc, that natal Asc figure would need to be made precise through rectification/validation process to a factor of a just a very few minutes arc from exact.

So I recommend you not read anything into progressed Asc (or cusp) figures. I also recommend you not read anything into person A's progressions compared to Person B's (or their natal positions). To used a tired metaphor, it's mixing apples and oranges.

I know this seems to be more 'no' or 'not' information than something usable, but personally, I'd go back to your natal chart -- link us to it if you want -- and look at what is going on for you transit-wise (then maybe progressions). I know this removes focus from a particular individual of relational interest to you, but it is far better to consider less information but which is truly relevant to you than to force connections between apples and oranges that also exceed how much info can be actually be processed.

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The Declinations Guy
Rising Sign Descriptions

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CapriciousCapricorn
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posted May 04, 2017 08:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for CapriciousCapricorn     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hello Kannon

My Asc is correct, birth time is rectified. I take transits seriously, I like that method and use it (already done the analysis on mine and their love department But precisely because my birth time is accurate I would now like to learn more about progressions. Test how they work or not work for me.

Maybe I did not understand you...you don't think it sensible to cross-chart progressions, correct? Reason being because they're not real charts? What Nine said above, for example pr Moon of one person conjunct natal Sun, Moon or Asc of another person, does it not mean anything? Why is it ok to compare our own progressed chart to natal chart but not to another person's natal? Or progressed to progressed? This I do not understand..apples and oranges analogy.

I do realise that none of the listed aspects are active, that's why I corrected myself but at some point in time they are going to be active and some have already passed. I was more interested in the actual aspects. What do they mean if anything?

Everybody else who's into this thing in question one what I meant was this. What, for example is the difference between my pr. Moon conjunct other's natal Asc and their pr. Moon conjunct my natal Asc? Like that. Maybe this way it is more clear.

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Beautiful_Light
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posted May 04, 2017 08:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Beautiful_Light     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think if interest was purely one-sided, you wouldn't get together, right? So maybe if it's one-sided there would be no match in the progressed charts. I think one person's progression matching the other's natal placement is like life preparing person A to meet person B. So it's a slight nuance but I wouldn't take it to mean person B wouldn't be interested back. They probably would be, because you've been "aligned" to them.

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CapriciousCapricorn
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posted May 05, 2017 02:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for CapriciousCapricorn     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beautiful_Light:
I think if interest was purely one-sided, you wouldn't get together, right? So maybe if it's one-sided there would be no match in the progressed charts. I think one person's progression matching the other's natal placement is like life preparing person A to meet person B. So it's a slight nuance but I wouldn't take it to mean person B wouldn't be interested back. They probably would be, because you've been "aligned" to them.

Yeah, maybe. But it's just not clear. In synastry if you know you have mars conjunct venus it's pretty clear what it means when I'm venus and he's mars and what it means if I'm mars and he's venus. Here, I'm not sure what the difference is. Between being progressed and natal.

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Beautiful_Light
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posted May 05, 2017 03:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Beautiful_Light     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CapriciousCapricorn:
Yeah, maybe. But it's just not clear. In synastry if you know you have mars conjunct venus it's pretty clear what it means when I'm venus and he's mars and what it means if I'm mars and he's venus. Here, I'm not sure what the difference is. Between being progressed and natal.


Synastry (in particular the knowledge of how two objects relate to each other) and progressions are different things but I can see how you are trying to relate them.

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Nine
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posted May 05, 2017 05:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Nine     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Yeah, maybe. But it's just not clear. In synastry if you know you have mars conjunct venus it's pretty clear what it means when I'm venus and he's mars and what it means if I'm mars and he's venus. Here, I'm not sure what the difference is. Between being progressed and natal.


pSynastry is used in the same way natal-to-natal synastry is used. Progression adds a timing dynamic to the mix.

As said above, synastry and progressions are two different things.

The problem with natal-to-natal synastry is that it doesn't take into account that the nChart progresses. The current positions of the pPlanets indeed plays a role what a person is attracted in that period of time.

Eg. Scorpio wants intensity, Sagittarius wants freedom, Capricorn wants accomplishment.

In a natal-to-natal synastry reading, there will be agreement with these descriptions, but offer no tangible take away.

In a pSynastry reading, the natal placements will be noted, but the progressed positions will show an immediate preference.

Eg. While you're a cautious Capricorn, the progressed planets are in Sagittarius. Thus during this influence you will feel a need to break free from the hum-drum and explore. You will actively seek out where the grass is greener and go there.

In a synastry Sagittarian types will appeal to you strongly.

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CapriciousCapricorn
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posted May 05, 2017 08:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for CapriciousCapricorn     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm actually starting to agree with Kannon now )) that it's a pointless comparison. I mean, of course I still find it interesting and want to learn more! but things just have to make at least little sense to me. So what exactly is the difference FOR ME between A) my progressed Moon conjunct person's natal Asc and B) my natal Moon conjunct someone's progressed Asc? What exactly is the difference between it being my progressed Moon and my natal Moon? If anybody can explain this, I would appreciate it Very much! Honestly, what a mindckuf )

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Nine
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posted May 05, 2017 09:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Nine     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CapriciousCapricorn:
I'm actually starting to agree with Kannon now )) that it's a pointless comparison.

Fair enough

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Randall
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posted May 11, 2017 03:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for the help, Nine.

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Nine
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posted May 13, 2017 11:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Nine     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Randall:
Thanks for the help, Nine.

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Nine
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posted May 13, 2017 12:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Nine     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
So what exactly is the difference FOR ME between A) my progressed Moon conjunct person's natal Asc and B) my natal Moon conjunct someone's progressed Asc?

You will never get it if you don't play attention.

quote:
Specifically, you're looking for pMoon in one chart in conjunction to nAsc or nSun in the other chart.

quote:
This is what I read and have noticed as well, it is usually the moon that is either progressed to another's sun, moon or asc.

That's it. The Progressed Moon in one chart conjunct the natal Asc/Sun/Moon in the other chart that sparks attraction.

quote:
]What exactly is the difference between it being my progressed Moon and my natal Moon? If anybody can explain this, I would appreciate it Very much! Honestly, what a mindckuf )

Google Progressions.

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Nine
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posted May 13, 2017 12:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Nine     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
1) Question that probably interests me most. Could it be said that interest in one-sided, if for example, only one person's progressed planets make aspects to natal planets of the other person? And who is the interested one? Progressed person or natal?

No. Interest is mutual. One person is radiating light (Sun), and the other is reflecting (Moon) that light back at them.

quote:
2) What are the best indicators of a start of relationship?

pMoon in one chart conjunct** nAsc/nSun.

quote:
3) Sun square Venus. Is that bad? Does it mean something?

Hard to say.

quote:
4) A very specific question. How significant is a combination of these:

quote:
A pr Asc conjunct B natal and pr Moon ---- basically B has pr Moon conjunct natal Moon at the same time

Not significant. See answer #2.

quote:
A pr Moon opposite B pr and natal Moon ------- A has pr Moon conjunct pr Dsc at the same time
B pr Moon conjunct A pr and natal Pluto

Not significant. See answer #2.


**by conjunction I mean same sign, not exact degree.

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CapriciousCapricorn
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posted May 14, 2017 04:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for CapriciousCapricorn     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Nine,

Thank you very much for answering my questions again in your last reply! I have two more if you have time and wish to answer.
1) '**by conjunction I mean same sign, not exact degree.'
Do you mean that out of sign conjunctions are not conjunctions? Or do you mean that as long as pr. Moon is in the same sign as natal Asc/Sun/Moon of another person then that's considered a conjunction?
2) Is it just from your observation and experience that pr Moon conjunct natal Sun/Asc/Moon is significant or is there a logical explanation why progressed Asc conjunctions are not as important as progressed Moon's?

Thanks again, really.
---------------------------
In regards to what you wrote earlier. When I ask a question it is because I want to know the answer to it so I read every reply I get and I DO pay attention so I'd appreciate it if you don't make hasty judgements. You gave me a great explanation of how you see things but maybe to me it didn't make complete sense. Suggesting I go google 'progressions' is hardly answering my question, which, anyways was not 'what are progressions?'. I know what they are. I said that I specifically don't understand what is the difference between
a) my progressed Moon conjunct somebody's natal Asc
b) my natal Moon conjunct somebody's progressed Asc

It is basically the same aspect - Moon conjunct Ascendant. The focus is on you. Are you progressed or natal. I thought only one would feel the pull to another (sort of not reciprocated). But if, as you said, that's not the case then that answers my question really.

You said that pr Moon to natal Sun/Moon/Asc of another person simply sparks attraction. If that's all that it does and all there's to it then ok, I get it. But because earlier in your response you said that 'pSynastry is used in the same way natal-to-natal synastry is used', it made me think about how the two differ. The only difference I see is the timing. Somebody's Asc (pr) is appealing to me right now, but maybe not before or their Moon (pr.) is pulling me in now but not before.

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Nine
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posted May 14, 2017 12:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Nine     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Thank you very much for answering my questions again in your last reply!

quote:

1) '**by conjunction I mean same sign, not exact degree.'
Do you mean that out of sign conjunctions are not conjunctions? Or do you mean that as long as pr. Moon is in the same sign as natal Asc/Sun/Moon of another person then that's considered a conjunction?

Assuming we're still talking about pMoon to nAsc/Sun. I have seen out of sign conjunctions work, but only in the early degrees, and then the attraction is fleeting if pMoon is behind nAsc/nSun. If pMoon is in front of nAsc/nSun, say the preceeding sign, there will be strong friendship and a building up of to something. However, it's not enough to kick start a romance. Opinions vary on this, some use a 10° applying or, others use a 5° applying orb.

Short answer: Out of sign conjunctions can work, but only in cases where the pMoon is applying to conjunct nAsc/Moon. And then only in a 10° to 5° orb.

quote:

2) Is it just from your observation and experience that pr Moon conjunct natal Sun/Asc/Moon is significant or is there a logical explanation why progressed Asc conjunctions are not as important as progressed Moon's?

Research. Research has demonstrated that the aspect is asymmetrical.

Don't get me wrong, pAsc is an attractive placement. It attracts nSun/nAsc/nMoon, and all kinds of people you meet and interact with on a daily basis. However, those interactions tend to be of the platonic variety.

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CapriciousCapricorn
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posted May 15, 2017 03:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for CapriciousCapricorn     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Nine

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Kannon McAfee
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posted May 18, 2017 12:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kannon McAfee     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CapriciousCapricorn:
Hello Kannon
... you don't think it sensible to cross-chart progressions, correct?

Correct. A chart's progressions are a product of the radix, the natal and apply to that person only.

quote:

Why is it ok to compare our own progressed chart to natal chart but not to another person's natal? Or progressed to progressed? This I do not understand..apples and oranges analogy.

You can do whatever you like, but it won't necessarily give you clear reliable information.

Let me emphasize again, the secondary progressed Asc as talked about here is a [b]symbolic fiction, a non-event that is not derived from any movement of the Earth in nature. Don't ask me to explain why astrologers use it. Maybe it has something to do with the complications of calculating real progressions and the seemingly endless fascination astrologers have had for eons with the 1° equivalency.

It is important to learn enough natal astrology before trying to understand the greater complications and/or subtleties of relational astrology.

------------------
The Declinations Guy
Rising Sign Descriptions

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