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Author Topic:   How reliant are you on your understanding of composite/synastry in life?
HieronymusTush
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posted September 05, 2018 04:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for HieronymusTush     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I was originally going to ask this just to todd, but I'd like to know what everyone thinks! I can't help but think the clarity of readings such as todd's, for example, add a certain element of fatality/certainty to astrology. Considering how clear certain people's grasp and talent are in reading relationship charts, for example, how comfortable are you with guiding your own relationships through your composite readings? I guess my question, quite out of curiosity is: how much do you rely on what you see?

The more exacting and clear the readings are, the more I unsure I feel about incorporating them as limits to work with within relationships. I guess this question is for anyone who's willing to share their outlook - how and how often do you make the decision to incorporate whatever difficult aspect or placement into your life as something you're willing to deal with?

Hope everyone's having a great Wednesday!

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Randall
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posted September 06, 2018 02:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Bump!

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sassaqua
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posted September 07, 2018 05:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for sassaqua     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I like this post. It's a good question and nice to have a discussion.

Not sure if this entirely answers it but I'll put my 2c worth in.

First, I don't like reading other peoples chart face to face, because I feel that I am interfering or influencing. Often people are very vulnerable.

Second, about my own charts etc.. I have thought about this many times before. In some ways, knowing the synastry and all can be a barrier. Sometimes helpful too. It must be balanced?

A barrier because it's like I am not interacting with the person, sometimes. I'm analysing and sensing the synastry aspects, and not in the "here and now". So, I'm more (too much?) objective about the relationship: too much brain not enough heart? It also means that I am seeing more than my partner is seeing.. so, this needs to be managed too, because it's a power imbalance?

It can be enormously helpful though, because it saves time and pain: we all know people who get stuck for years in relationships banging the same old drum. When you look at their stuff, you see their synastry is a complete drain...

I am happy to see that astrology is gaining general credibility, and becoming less related to "weirdos". It means that I can be open with people about it (relationships) and it will be viewed as a valid interest. Or even an asset I have to bring to the table.

I think sometimes, people can get a bit nervous if they know you're reading them. It can make you a bit "off the planet" too (not in the here and now). Or/and seem like it to more conservative types.

That's my 2c

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StoneMoon
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posted September 07, 2018 03:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for StoneMoon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I agree, good question!

I go back and forth. I love the knowledge astrology allows me to have about a person, and a relationship. It's like you can see it from above- know the weak spots and try to handle them with care.

But as sass mentioned, it's a power imbalance if I am the only one who is aware. Which, let's face it, I usually am. So I have this awareness but my partner does not and just goes on doing what he does. I feel like I am trying to navigate the relationship better, which then turns to manipulation of the relationship, and then hopelessness because I can see how we need to operate or maneuver, but my partner can't and won't and so he is not "in it" with me.

I also struggle because when I read charts of any kind, I can mostly see positives, and can be blind to negatives. For example, obviously if I see a Moon opposite Saturn I can see that this could translate to coldness or lack of emotional connection between two people. But I am more referring to seeing less alarming aspects as problematic, which all can be. All aspects have an up side and a down side, and it can be hard to see how the aspect will be played.

Also, I have seen lovely aspects and positive transits that actually either amounted to nothing or were happening at the time of a breakup or heartbreak. I have seen powerful composites and synastries that became nothing.

I still use astrology though. And I probably always will. It helped me immensely as a parent when I was able to get a deeper glimpse in to my children and understand what they were dealing with. It changed me permanently. I am a little more rose colored glasses in romantic relationships, but then again that could be natal aspects I have.

To answer your question completely, I feel I am pretty reliant on astrology to help me better understand a person and their wants and needs.

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HieronymusTush
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posted September 07, 2018 04:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for HieronymusTush     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Great answers, thanks for chiming in sassaqua and StoneMoon.

I arrived at this question from a few different thoughts. One of them was, as I said in the original post, not quite knowing how to process the accuracy and exactitude of some of the readings I see. I'm not a religious person - but I believe all fiction, art, psychology and astrology included, exist to help us in one way or another. I don't hold what I classify as useful or wise fiction to the standards of science, I feel that's beside the point. But most fictions do not assume authority in the way that astrology can! That's where I get a bit confused.

Sassaqua, one thing I think about is whether the power imbalance is real or imagined if the other person has zero interest or belief in the value of astrology. Often we the astrologically inclined arrange our affairs according to a set of values, observations combined with astrological readings and insights. Others do it using other instruments. Don't you think ultimately it should depend on the extent that one of the parties rely on outer sources? I say this because I wonder if I'm often fatalistic about astrology in a way that's not useful or productive - that I'm using astrology to confirm fears and suspicion. Perhaps my currently quite subpar grasp of the craft means I'm not processing what I see and read wisely enough. But certainly this is something to think about: I don't think astrology should lock the individual in a perpetual future or possibilities. Anxiety has a way of locking one in an imagined future, bad or good.

So I wondered how others who have a much wider grasp of it than I do view and use their own readings. I'd be very interested to hear what others think.

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HieronymusTush
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posted September 07, 2018 04:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for HieronymusTush     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by StoneMoon:

I also struggle because when I read charts of any kind, I can mostly see positives, and can be blind to negatives. For example, obviously if I see a Moon opposite Saturn I can see that this could translate to coldness or lack of emotional connection between two people. But I am more referring to seeing less alarming aspects as problematic, which all can be. All aspects have an up side and a down side, and it can be hard to see how the aspect will be played.

How interesting, I however tend to focus on the bad aspects! (Btw- When you talk about moon opp saturn, is it synastry or composite? This aspect is mostly interpreted as Saturn constricting the moon person, berating them or whatever. However, once I read somewhere that in synastry, it has a way of playing out that actually matures the saturn person - them seeing the emotional needs of the moon will help them get their act together and grow up. I really liked how nuanced this interpretation was, do you agree with it?)

I also wonder whether there are particularly challenging aspects for each person. Maybe not every traditionally horrific aspect is bad for everyone. Is this a crazy notion? I found comp. venus square saturn and jupiter square uranus in two of my closest, oldest friendships - which was quite surprising to me. Does this mean I'm drawn to slightly unstable, difficult relationships?

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sassaqua
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posted September 07, 2018 06:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sassaqua     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wow.. so much to say..

I tend to look at the bad aspects with other people, as a warning. It can appear as being negative, but, what can I do with my ruler Saturn in the 5th? But, as expected, when it's my own new synastry I tend to look at the positives. I account for hormones for the latter

HieronymusTush, I will continue to consider your thoughts about the power imbalance. And StoneMoon, we're on the same page (something I've noticed before when reading your posts). I'll add to what you say with: also, it puts me into a position where sometimes, I alone have taken (over)care of the relationship when sometimes it's ok and better in fact to just let things ride and time to do it's thing. And let the other person take some control without me thinking that I have all the "tools" to fix things.

My thoughts about the power "imbalance" is real I do think. But I'll modify this by adding that it puts the two people on different "planes" or "wavelengths", and can get in the way of true relating. I do believe there is some value in going with the flow and using subtle senses, and I suspect that the gains to be found here can be easily underestimated. In fact, I've wondered before that maybe that's actually where the soul exists and the astrology chart is in fact a lower plane and thus, interferes with that soul relating.

For a basic and practical example to illustrate: perhaps if using intuition and the feeling senses one may be compelled to reach out with a touch, give a glance or a look, or even fight when necessary. The last example is a good one because my Libran Moon may use astrology to avoid confrontation - oh .. it's only his baby challenged Moon, I'll give him some love. Sometimes it's important to let spontaneity run through your veins to have a true and honest engagement and rapport - like a tennis match rather than.. well, I wont say chess but something like that. Again, there is something intangibly valuable about using the senses.

Hells bells, I've even known myself to be interested in people ONLY because I'm curious to observe how a certain aspect will play out (like, some dude I'm texting with now)!! How's that? Is that fair? Hmm... Or, the charts get in the way: hey we've got Jupiter trine Venus - I'll just send ONE more text and it won't be a problem [no!!]). Where tuning into them and the tennis match might be more prudent, not to mention useful for longevity.

For another illustration about different planes, I've had experiences where the relationship "talks" are happening and are NECESSARY (again, to engage with senses and intuition), and my brain is going: there's no point in discussing this too deeply because [x y aspect] is part of our relationship and I'm ok with that aspect so let's move along and all is ok. But, it's actually deeply important for those talk moments for growth and bonding. In my younger days I would even have said: don't worry it's just your Moon is Square my Jupiter so... I've since learned that this is not a solid and useful way to have a discussion!

But, having said all of that, I think that once you grow into astrology and you learn these elements, you can relax more into it, turn it on and off and remember to engage the senses. But it may take a long time too.

Incidentally, when I was a photographer I found that, taking the camera everywhere and looking through the minds eye of composing frames took me out of experiencing the life-events at that moment. It kept me separate from the experience; too objective, and interfered with the sensory input. I find astrology can do same in the context of what we are discussing.

Great topic!

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Ami Anne
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posted September 07, 2018 10:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I trust synastry much more than Comp.

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HieronymusTush
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posted September 08, 2018 09:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for HieronymusTush     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ami Anne:
I trust synastry much more than Comp.


Ami Anne how come, could you elaborate? Is it because composite is more theoretical and 'up in the air'? Or is it from experience? I would love to hear your take, especially considering your experience

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erickaf
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posted September 08, 2018 09:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for erickaf     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Composite is king when it comes to compatibility. With synastry you can always work at it, but with composite it is what it is...can't change that.

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Ami Anne
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posted September 08, 2018 10:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
By experience, thousands of charts *cough*, the synastry plays out in real life MUCH better. My reasoning is that the Comp is theoretical as you said, TB. You can't say people will meet halfway. I mean ................

PS What a cute name you have. Are you a Michael Connonly fan?

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HieronymusTush
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posted September 08, 2018 10:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for HieronymusTush     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ami Anne:
By experience, thousands of charts *cough*, the synastry plays out in real life MUCH better. My reasoning is that the Comp is theoretical as you said, TB. You can't say people will meet halfway. I mean ................

PS What a cute name you have. Are you a Michael Connonly fan?


By experience, how did you find the synastry and composite differ? I understand we're dealing with two schools of thoughts and preferences here, but I would like to understand your personal point of view, did you find synastry to ve more reliable and revealing of long-term dynamics?

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MyRealName
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posted September 08, 2018 11:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MyRealName     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just like Amy Anne I find synastry helpful for "making things work". It helps identify challenges and mismatches in compatibility that no marriage council can identify.
Composite is difficult to use this same way because it is hard to say who is acting the specific dynamic. On the other hand looking at a composite helps to see how healthy the relationship is. Perhaps others use composites to help the relationship, but I haven't figured out how.

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hypatia238
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posted September 08, 2018 01:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hypatia238     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Astrology is an art, not just a science so astrologers can have very different perspectives and interpretations on aspects and placements and can be just wrong at times as they are humans and have their own biases so you have to truly follow your instincts and own personal observations when you receive feedback from other astrologers, see their input as a tool, they help you gain clarity into how you feel about a placement and aspect but they are not "god almighty, all knowing and infallible." I have been studying astrology for 20 years and I am still learning a lot..

For example Neptune is the higher octave of venus but people here are always putting the 12th house and neptune down in synastry and composite and view it as the planet and house of secrets and deception instead of a portal to another dimension (since is the last planet) that allows you to connect with others more spiritually in a way that transcends time and space.

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todd
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posted September 08, 2018 02:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for todd     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
obviously I find the composite the most useful for understanding and prediction about relationships. synastry is great for comparison but i have rarely seen a astrologer using synastry be able to define when a relationship ended or for that matter began. most synstry interpretations i have read always end up asking more questions like when and where did it start etc..
often composites give dates for beginning and ending .

on at lest one reading here,i commented the relationship was already over which was true.

to me astrology is about prediction. if one can't define the timing ,then it is all just philosophy.

todd

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HieronymusTush
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posted September 08, 2018 02:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for HieronymusTush     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by todd:
obviously I find not composite the most useful for understanding and prediction about relationships. synastry is great for comparison but i have rarely seen a astrologer using synastry be able to define when a relationship ended or for that matter began. most synstry interpretations i have read always end up asking more questions like when and where did it start etc..
often composites give dates for beginning and ending .

on at lest one reading here,i commented the relationship was already over which was true.

to me astrology is about prediction. if one can't define the timing ,then it is all just philosophy.

todd


I see. Was your reading the one about my post about comp 8th house stellium, todd?

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todd
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posted September 08, 2018 03:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for todd     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by HieronymusTush:
I see. Was your reading the one about my post about comp 8th house stellium, todd?


Was your reading the one about my post about comp 8th house stellium, todd

I was making reference to a reading I did some time ago when I was asked about a relationship and I replied it was already over.

some who ask about relationships want to get ideas on how things might go and what they can do or not do bases on astrology.
other members just want an appraisal and aren't really interested in the astrological minutiae .
I cater to the second type.

todd

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Ami Anne
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posted September 08, 2018 04:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
HT Over time, the synastry has shown to be accurate as to what is actually happening in the relationship.

The Comp simply can't show REALITY in the same way ime

I am all about what is in practical reality.

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StoneMoon
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posted September 08, 2018 09:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for StoneMoon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I agree with ths. I have had great synastry but sucky composite and each time the relationship went absolutely nowhere.


quote:
Originally posted by erickaf:
Composite is king when it comes to compatibility. With synastry you can always work at it, but with composite it is what it is...can't change that.

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sassaqua
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posted September 08, 2018 09:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sassaqua     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Loving this thread..

I'd like to ask the ongoing question: Davidson or Composite. If anyone wants to go into that deeply than previously.

I'm wondering too - can a composite work if there are no link ins from the natals? Theoretically I understand the consensus is no, but, what are the real life stats? Anyone have any?

Are there people roaming around not linked into their relationship composite but it works because the composite is happily and adequately aspected, the synsastry is acceptably too? Can synastry suffice for the necessary dynamic of relating for a relationship?


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mir
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posted September 09, 2018 05:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mir     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Understanding the geometry behind Composite aspects is of utmost importance to fully embrace it. It wasn't until I could write it out that I was sold.

Davison is just a vague construction of the composite and has nothing to do with the actual natals. With this chart I have the same as Ami "You can't say people will meet halfway. I mean ................ "" (if you're born at the 3rd of april 1988 while him being born at the 7th of april 1988, the davison will show the chart of the 5th of april that year)

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HieronymusTush
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posted September 09, 2018 06:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for HieronymusTush     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sassaqua:
Loving this thread..

I'd like to ask the ongoing question: Davidson or Composite. If anyone wants to go into that deeply than previously.

I'm wondering too - can a composite work if there are no link ins from the natals? Theoretically I understand the consensus is no, but, what are the real life stats? Anyone have any?

Are there people roaming around not linked into their relationship composite but it works because the composite is happily and adequately aspected, the synsastry is acceptably too? Can synastry suffice for the necessary dynamic of relating for a relationship?




I wonder about this too, as I haven't got around to really grasping how one goes about reading the natals with relation to the composite. I'd really appreciate a basic intro & source.

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Ami Anne
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posted September 09, 2018 10:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Can you explain more, Mir?

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hypatia238
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posted September 09, 2018 02:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hypatia238     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I like how this user explains Davison versus Composite, I feel her analysis is excellent:

quote:
Originally posted by Bucketrider:
Ive just had a eureka moment Id like to share. After going back and forth bet which composite chart is more accurate, at first favoring the composite and then the davison for a while and then going back and feeling that the composite def has something important to say I think I have finally hit on where they fit.

The composite (midpoint chart) is basically an extension of synastry. It represents the midpoints between the two charts. Midpoints within a natal chart represent a blending of the two planets it is aspecting. The composite is a meeting place and exists as a contintuation of the aspects between the charts that occurs in synastry. It does not represent the true relationship as the "third" entity. The one that responds to tranists and progressions.
The davison chart is a more accurate representation of the real relationship as it is experienced by both parties, once they have really gotten past the beginning of it and have truly gotten to know one another. It is what nurtures or presents them with particular kinds of learning (working with particular dysfunctions and life enhancing "gifts") in the long run. It can be interacted with in a more responsive way than the composite chart. The composite emerges from the synastry and represents an overall feeling and some interactional dynamics between people. The davison goes beyond that and influences the real structure and nature of two people's interactions in the long term.

The davison resonates and is a more fixed entity. It was an actual day. In a similar way to the way progressions so accurately forecast periods of time for us, they are days, complete entities, stretched out and exprienced. Each day is its own creation and the order and structure of the planets is not random. The days, as they were created have particular significances. The davison, being the actual midpoint day between two people is a particular entity that was a real created potential that manifested at a point in time and continues to exist in a more latent form even after days pass. Its a deep mystical concept and one that coincides with the notion that time is an illusion and is not linear the way we think.
The composite chart is not a creation in the same way. The signs of a composite chart never felt significant to me. They are incidental. As are the house placements. As midpoint theory would suggest, its the aspects (conjunction, opp, square, trine, etc) that matter most. Those aspects have meaning in a composite relationship but only as they emerge from the synastry. They serve to draw people together and work in an immediate, instinctual way. As synastry does. Not that synastry is not ongoing and still relevant 15 years later. It is and so is the composite but neither tell the deeper story of the relationship between two people and the unique properties it has and will manifest in particular ways and areas via its aspects and house placements the way a davison can. In the end, I believe the davison is the bigger story.

That said, the orbs for a composite midpoint chart need to be much narrower to be felt while a davison chart would respond to more traditional orbs. Midpoint orbs are bet 1-3 degrees depending on the body being aspected. I would say the 1-3 orb should apply to a composite, being an expansion of the midpoint idea. The same essentially holds true for points like ASC, MC or vertex which respond to midpoint like orbs of probably not more than 3 degrees. These sensitive points are not actual bodies and do not exert an energy on another points or body, they merely exist and respond or receive an energy from something else. As opposed to a planet which is an actual body that emits of energy (or represents an emission -depending on how you want to look at it). That said, a planet opposing the ASC is dif than a planet opposing the sun. In kind of a yin/yang way, the sun yangs back to whatever is opposing it so there is tension. The ASC does not. Midpoints, as a composite chart would work the same way.

Any thoughts?



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hypatia238
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posted September 09, 2018 03:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hypatia238     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Composite Chart is an extension of the synastry, its basically a midpoint chart derived from the synastry of the two people. This to me feels like the composite/midpoint chart needs to be activated by one of the natals or transit to be felt.

Davison is the midpoint between time and space between the birthdates of two people and is an actual chart so I find that transits to the Davison are felt in a much more concrete way so is better for predictive work and both parties feel the energy and manifestation of the chart regardless if it conjuncts either of the natals. Davison gives you a good idea of the fate of the relationship I feel and its purpose. Composite tells you more about the dynamics of the relationship since is an extension of the synastry essentially. What is very noteworthy is repeated themes between the Davison and Composite!!!! bc the purpose/fate of the relationship is aligning with the dynamics of the relationship and that is very powerful.

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