Lindaland
  Interpersonal Astrology
  How bad is Composite 12th house?

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq

UBBFriend: Email This Page to Someone! next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   How bad is Composite 12th house?
Hikaru29
Knowflake

Posts: 1232
From: Asia
Registered: Nov 2018

posted April 02, 2019 09:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hikaru29     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My friend is unfortunate enough to have a heavy 12th house Composite with both her ex-husband and current boyfriend. I can't help but wonder if this house is really so notorious because her previous marriage was really bad (although it lasted quite long) and her current r/s is... erm... turbulent and toxic.

With her ex-husband, they have Sun/Mercury/Venus/NN in 12H (Sun conj Mercury but not with Venus/NN).

With her current bf, they have Sun/Mercury/NN in 12H (NN doesn't conjunct).


So I would like to know for those who have experienced a heavy 12H, how was it like for you? Was it also bad?

IP: Logged

Kannon McAfee
Moderator

Posts: 3824
From: Portland, OR - USA
Registered: Oct 2011

posted April 02, 2019 04:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kannon McAfee     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This topic belongs in Interpersonal Astrology.

------------------
"Drift like a cloud and flow like water, seeing that all life is a magnificent illusion, a playing of energy, and there is absolutely nothing fundamentally to be afraid of." -- Alan Watts

Soul Stars Astrology by The Declinations Guy
Expert Rectification

IP: Logged

Stoika7
Knowflake

Posts: 123
From: Rome, Italy
Registered: Mar 2019

posted April 02, 2019 06:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stoika7     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Hikaru29:
My friend is unfortunate enough to have a heavy 12th house Composite with both her ex-husband and current boyfriend. I can't help but wonder if this house is really so notorious because her previous marriage was really bad (although it lasted quite long) and her current r/s is... erm... turbulent and toxic.

With her ex-husband, they have Sun/Mercury/Venus/NN in 12H (Sun conj Mercury but not with Venus/NN).

With her current bf, they have Sun/Mercury/NN in 12H (NN doesn't conjunct).


So I would like to know for those who have experienced a heavy 12H, how was it like for you? Was it also bad?


Toxic, yes, it can be toxic, especially if Pluto and/or Lilith and/or Neptune squares are also involved. NN in twelve is a pretty karmic bond, but 12th house is always binding in a weird "toxic" way, it usually suggests something is unresolved and the need to "let go", especially in a "higher love" scenario, but as usual, it all depends on the whole chart and aspects involved. First of all, it would be useful to know if your friend is a twelve house Sun, since 12th house relationships usually occur more often in such case (unfortunatley, I know this cause I'm a 12th house Sun :-(... )
To have the crazy 12th house as a major aspect in one's natal chart is on its own an issue (!) cause it usually puts you (i.e. "me"!) in troubles! But it is also a very highly spiritual/karmic/ psychic house, both in natal and relationship chart. There's something the person/relationship needs to set free from and make a further "higher" step ahead.

IP: Logged

Hikaru29
Knowflake

Posts: 1232
From: Asia
Registered: Nov 2018

posted April 03, 2019 01:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hikaru29     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Stoika7:
Toxic, yes, it can be toxic, especially if Pluto and/or Lilith and/or Neptune squares are also involved. NN in twelve is a pretty karmic bond, but 12th house is always binding in a weird "toxic" way, it usually suggests something is unresolved and the need to "let go", especially in a "higher love" scenario, but as usual, it all depends on the whole chart and aspects involved. First of all, it would be useful to know if your friend is a twelve house Sun, since 12th house relationships usually occur more often in such case (unfortunatley, I know this cause I'm a 12th house Sun :-(... )
To have the crazy 12th house as a major aspect in one's natal chart is on its own an issue (!) cause it usually puts you (i.e. "me"!) in troubles! But it is also a very highly spiritual/karmic/ psychic house, both in natal and relationship chart. There's something the person/relationship needs to set free from and make a further "higher" step ahead.

Yes, my friend has a 12H Sun conjunct Mercury/Chiron.

Her ex-husband also has 12H Sun/Mercury, and her current bf has 12H Sun/Mercury/Venus. OMG, she seems fated to meet 12H partners.

With her current bf:
Neptune square Sun/Mercury, sextile Moon, trine Venus, biquintile Mars.
Lilith/Pluto conjunct Dsc, oppose Venus, square IC/MC
Lilith trine Saturn
Pluto trine Moon, quincunx Mercury/Mars

With her ex-husband:
Neptune conjunct Moon/Jupiter/Juno/MC, square Venus/Asc, quintile Sun/Mercury, sesqui Mars.
Pluto/Vertex conjunct in 7H sextile Moon/Jupiter/MC, quincunx Venus, oppose Chiron.


Do you also meet 12H relationships often?

I'm curious about this "higher love" thing.

I have Sun/Mercury/Juno/SN in 12H too.

IP: Logged

Stoika7
Knowflake

Posts: 123
From: Rome, Italy
Registered: Mar 2019

posted April 03, 2019 02:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stoika7     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Hikaru29:
Yes, my friend has a 12H Sun conjunct Mercury/Chiron.

Her ex-husband also has 12H Sun/Mercury, and her current bf has 12H Sun/Mercury/Venus. OMG, she seems fated to meet 12H partners.

With her current bf:
Neptune square Sun/Mercury, sextile Moon, trine Venus, biquintile Mars.
Lilith/Pluto conjunct Dsc, oppose Venus, square IC/MC
Lilith trine Saturn
Pluto trine Moon, quincunx Mercury/Mars

With her ex-husband:
Neptune conjunct Moon/Jupiter/Juno/MC, square Venus/Asc, quintile Sun/Mercury, sesqui Mars.
Pluto/Vertex conjunct in 7H sextile Moon/Jupiter/MC, quincunx Venus, oppose Chiron.


Do you also meet 12H relationships often?

I'm curious about this "higher love" thing.

I have Sun/Mercury/Juno/SN in 12H too.


"Higher love" I mean when you can love without asking for anything back, completely selflessly, whether it's mutual or isn't, and when it's mutual, they both share and enjoy a path together. Does this kind of love exist?! I don't know :-D But maybe someone lucky can get close to it...

I had a few important longtime 12th house love relationships, not always so bad or "toxic", but pretty intense ones and, well, they apparently ended, LOL, even though I'm still friend to those my ex bfs, it feels like "family" now and I somehow still deeply love them without that kind of romantic involvement anymore. Maybe this is also some kind of "higher love" that doesn't end with time, seems to be there forever, even when you're not in touch for ages...

By a quick check, I'd say the relationship with her ex husband was better though! Those aspects she has with her current bf are tough... so maybe it's not just a matter of 12th house. But 12th house somehow has always something "impossible" to solve, it is intense but at the same time something just doesn't match our expectations or so and it demands an effort to give away your selfish side or it might just never work, this is my feeling.

IP: Logged

Hikaru29
Knowflake

Posts: 1232
From: Asia
Registered: Nov 2018

posted April 03, 2019 04:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hikaru29     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Stoika7:
"Higher love" I mean when you can love without asking for anything back, completely selflessly, whether it's mutual or isn't, and when it's mutual, they both share and enjoy a path together. Does this kind of love exist?! I don't know :-D But maybe someone lucky can get close to it...

I'm not sure if this kinda love truly exists except the love from God. 😁 The one-sided love is possible.. a lot of people do that.. but if the one you love repeatedly hurt you?

It's nice that you can maintain good r/s with your exs and still love them in a different way. I couldn't. My ex treated me very badly...I refused to accept his apology. I cut another ex off when we broke up and for 8yrs. We reconnected last year through a friend. Managed to maintain friendly relations now but nothing more.

quote:
By a quick check, I'd say the relationship with her ex husband was better though! Those aspects she has with her current bf are tough... so maybe it's not just a matter of 12th house. But 12th house somehow has always something "impossible" to solve, it is intense but at the same time something just doesn't match our expectations or so and it demands an effort to give away your selfish side or it might just never work, this is my feeling.

Really? My friend said her marriage felt worse because he repeatedly cheated on her, was a habitual gambler and they were always in debts... also issues with his demanding & intrusive mom. They eventually split when she found photos of him & his gf. On the positive, he did a lot of things for her, always gave in to her and treated her like a princess. She felt loved despite his cheating ways.

With her current bf, there're issues of financial instability as both not holding stable jobs, drugs/alcohol addiction (she now drinks a lot more & recently began to take his sleeping pills), and loss of friends because her bf doesn't like them... and these are longtime/childhood friends so they're important friendships to her. On the positive, he spends a lot of time with her, fetches her around, go holidays etc...very gluey. They're also always partying with his "rich" friends. Despite this, she doesn't feel loved...she gives in more in this r/s while he's emotional, obstinate and seems "emotionally distant".

So which is worse to you?

IP: Logged

Stoika7
Knowflake

Posts: 123
From: Rome, Italy
Registered: Mar 2019

posted April 03, 2019 12:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stoika7     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Hikaru29:
Really? My friend said her marriage felt worse because he repeatedly cheated on her, was a habitual gambler and they were always in debts... also issues with his demanding & intrusive mom. They eventually split when she found photos of him & his gf. On the positive, he did a lot of things for her, always gave in to her and treated her like a princess. She felt loved despite his cheating ways.

With her current bf, there're issues of financial instability as both not holding stable jobs, drugs/alcohol addiction (she now drinks a lot more & recently began to take his sleeping pills), and loss of friends because her bf doesn't like them... and these are longtime/childhood friends so they're important friendships to her. On the positive, he spends a lot of time with her, fetches her around, go holidays etc...very gluey. They're also always partying with his "rich" friends. Despite this, she doesn't feel loved...she gives in more in this r/s while he's emotional, obstinate and seems "emotionally distant".

So which is worse to you?


With her current bf, I especially don't like the Lilith/Pluto conjunct Dsc, oppose Venus, square IC/MC... it gives me the feeling of possessive/obsessive attitude and together with the Neptune squares I had the feeling it wasn't an healthy situation, and you tell me now about those addictions...
With her ex husband, the Neptune conjunctions plus square Venus/Asc might suggest the fact he used to cheat on her...? I don't know why despite those contradictions, the Pluto/Vertex conjunct in 7H sextile Moon/Jupiter/MC tells me he loved her in "his own way", and Jupiter in good aspects is probably what supported this and the fact that "treated her like a princess. She felt loved despite his cheating ways"...
I think both relationships look "unhealthy" somehow... and the twelve house is probably the bond and the doom at the same time, in this scenario :-(

quote:
Originally posted by Hikaru29:
but if the one you love repeatedly hurt you?

Oh I'm radical on this (now)! If someone repeatedly hurts you, you might still love him/her, but far away from them :-D

IP: Logged

Hikaru29
Knowflake

Posts: 1232
From: Asia
Registered: Nov 2018

posted April 04, 2019 01:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hikaru29     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Stoika7:
With her current bf, I especially don't like the Lilith/Pluto conjunct Dsc, oppose Venus, square IC/MC... it gives me the feeling of possessive/obsessive attitude and together with the Neptune squares I had the feeling it wasn't an healthy situation, and you tell me now about those addictions...

Your assessment is right. It is a possessive & controlling relationship. He would exercise pressures to make her bend to his will and emotionally blackmail her. He even logs into her phone secretly!

I also think that the Neptune squares highlight confusion, disillusions... E.g. my friend says she doesn't feel loved yet insists that he treats her well. It sounds contradictory on its own. There were also instances where she felt misunderstood. She inherently feels that there's something not right with the r/s yet she can't let go. Neptune can be very binding in this way.

quote:
With her ex husband, the Neptune conjunctions plus square Venus/Asc might suggest the fact he used to cheat on her...? I don't know why despite those contradictions, the Pluto/Vertex conjunct in 7H sextile Moon/Jupiter/MC tells me he loved her in "his own way", and Jupiter in good aspects is probably what supported this and the fact that "treated her like a princess. She felt loved despite his cheating ways"...

I like it when you say he loved her in his own way, which is what I think too. Unfortunately he couldn't keep his pants up.

quote:
Oh I'm radical on this (now)! If someone repeatedly hurts you, you might still love him/her, but far away from them :-D

You have a big heart.

IP: Logged

Stoika7
Knowflake

Posts: 123
From: Rome, Italy
Registered: Mar 2019

posted April 04, 2019 02:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stoika7     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Hikaru29:
You have a big heart.

It might be just my Piesces ASC... cause my Aries Mars is not so forgiving, LOL, I basically learnt to protect myself, the 12th house "lesson" :-D But thanks for your lovely words! <3

Your friend though... sorry, I don't know anything about her, but maybe she should learn to protect herself as well from those nasty 12th relationships...? How is Chiron aspected in her own chart and in the actual bf composite? His behavious, as you describe it, is a shame to me... :-(

IP: Logged

Hikaru29
Knowflake

Posts: 1232
From: Asia
Registered: Nov 2018

posted April 04, 2019 03:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hikaru29     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Stoika7:
Your friend though... sorry, I don't know anything about her, but maybe she should learn to protect herself as well from those nasty 12th relationships...? How is Chiron aspected in her own chart and in the actual bf composite? His behavious, as you describe it, is a shame to me... :-(

My friend... ah.. I don't know what to say.. People think she's in a happy r/s because that's what she projects out, but she says people don't know her hidden pain. She recognises it but doesn't deal with it.

She has a busy 12H Chiron - conjunct Sun/Mercury, trine Moon/Neptune/Ceres, square Jupiter, opp Uranus/Juno, semisquare Venus, sextile Eros.

With her bf's Composite, their Chiron in 1H conjunct Pallas, opposite Pluto/Uranus, trine Jupiter/Neptune/Juno/Psyche, square Eros.

IP: Logged

Bismarck2
Knowflake

Posts: 92
From:
Registered: Mar 2019

posted April 04, 2019 03:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bismarck2     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Hikaru29:
My friend... ah.. I don't know what to say.. People think she's in a happy r/s because that's what she projects out, but she says people don't know her hidden pain. She recognises it but doesn't deal with it.

She has a busy 12H Chiron - conjunct Sun/Mercury, trine Moon/Neptune/Ceres, square Jupiter, opp Uranus/Juno, semisquare Venus, sextile Eros.

With her bf's Composite, their Chiron in 1H conjunct Pallas, opposite Pluto/Uranus, trine Jupiter/Neptune/Juno/Psyche, square Eros.


Post their composite please.

IP: Logged

Stoika7
Knowflake

Posts: 123
From: Rome, Italy
Registered: Mar 2019

posted April 04, 2019 03:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stoika7     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Hikaru29:
My friend... ah.. I don't know what to say.. People think she's in a happy r/s because that's what she projects out, but she says people don't know her hidden pain. She recognises it but doesn't deal with it.

She has a busy 12H Chiron - conjunct Sun/Mercury, trine Moon/Neptune/Ceres, square Jupiter, opp Uranus/Juno, semisquare Venus, sextile Eros.

With her bf's Composite, their Chiron in 1H conjunct Pallas, opposite Pluto/Uranus, trine Jupiter/Neptune/Juno/Psyche, square Eros.


I was expecting a natal Piesces Chiron, but 12th Chiron is basically the same... the Piesces/Twelve Chiron is about letting people hurt the person and he/she's not able to deal with it, exactly like you said, she recognizes the issue and the pain, but finds ways to "justify" those who hurt her.... but the 12th Chiron, again like everything having to do with twelve house, has the potential for healing yourself and setting yourself free from this. It doesn't necessarily have to be the death of the relationship, but her 12th Chiron suggests that she has to find ways to "develope" her inner strenght and self- respect/self-value and that she learns how to protect herself from these kinds of psychological abuses and blackmails and gain respect from the others (and from herself!).... Composite Chiron opposite Pluto/Uranus is not so awful and abusive, but it can be unpredictably abusive and underhanded, like you said, that apparently she's happy in the relationship, and probably this is what she keeps telling herself too somehow cause she cant let it go... in the first house it becomes pretty significant in the Composite. But, since she has a 12th Chiron, unfortunately I think it all depends more on her than the relationship or anyone else.......

IP: Logged

Hikaru29
Knowflake

Posts: 1232
From: Asia
Registered: Nov 2018

posted April 04, 2019 05:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hikaru29     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
^ You're right about developing self-value. Sometimes she gets all pis*ed off over small things but surprisingly is able to tolerate his other (what I could consider) unacceptable behaviour.

Anyway, here's their Composite:

IP: Logged

Stoika7
Knowflake

Posts: 123
From: Rome, Italy
Registered: Mar 2019

posted April 04, 2019 05:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stoika7     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Hikaru29:
Anyway, here's their Composite:

12th Venus/ASC, Jupiter/Neptune and Saturn square 12th NN are basically the aspects keeping them together and making it appear happy (and Venus trine Neptune!)... and fated. Because there is also Pluto conjunct Vertex in the 7th ! They don't have the stellium but this looks still romantic, I think. Moon square Mars and the oppositions on Chiron are not good but not even too awful, Saturn square NN in 12th can be heavy and karmic. So he probably has a ****** attitude in that control and psycholgical blackmailing, but the main problem I see is the 12th ruler with those Mercury squares, and her own natal Chiron...! So I've the feeling this relationship has happened for a reason, there is something to be "developed" here in each their "karma".


IP: Logged

Hikaru29
Knowflake

Posts: 1232
From: Asia
Registered: Nov 2018

posted April 04, 2019 06:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hikaru29     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Stoika7:
12th Venus/ASC, Jupiter/Neptune and Saturn square 12th NN are basically the aspects keeping them together and making it appear happy (and Venus trine Neptune!)... and fated. Because there is also Pluto conjunct Vertex in the 7th ! They don't have the stellium but this looks still romantic, I think. Moon square Mars and the oppositions on Chiron are not good but not even too awful, Saturn square NN in 12th can be heavy and karmic. So he probably has a ****** attitude in that control and psycholgical blackmailing, but the main problem I see is the 12th ruler with those Mercury squares, and her own natal Chiron...! So I've the feeling this relationship has happened for a reason, there is something to be "developed" here in each their "karma".

I definitely feel a pull between them and it's uncanny the several similarities between their chart and the one with her ex (the same 12H emphasis.. Pluto/Vertex in 7H (Lilith is also there)... Venus/Asc in Pisces... NN in 12H... Jupiter/Juno/Neptune conjunct... Neptune influences...).

I also have a lot of similar synastry aspects with my ex as compared to my current guy, although our Composites look different. They even have similar natal planets!

Btw, how would you interpret the biquintile between Neptune and Venus in Composite?

IP: Logged

Bismarck2
Knowflake

Posts: 92
From:
Registered: Mar 2019

posted April 04, 2019 06:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bismarck2     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Hikaru29:
I definitely feel a pull between them and it's uncanny the several similarities between their chart and the one with her ex (the same 12H emphasis.. Pluto/Vertex in 7H (Lilith is also there)... Venus/Asc in Pisces... NN in 12H... Jupiter/Juno/Neptune conjunct... Neptune influences...).

I also have a lot of similar synastry aspects with my ex as compared to my current guy, although our Composites look different. They even have similar natal planets!

Btw, how would you interpret the biquintile between Neptune and Venus in Composite?


The bi/quintile is somehwhere between a conjunction and a square. It's harmonious, but challenging in a bantering/flirting sort of way. It's a great aspect. Best aspect to have, IMO.

To interpret a bi/quintile between Venus and Neptune, look up the meaning of the conjunction and the square, and imagine it being somewhere in the middle. It's a harmonious square, or a challenging conjunction.

More info: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZ1-9B63Ewk

IP: Logged

Hikaru29
Knowflake

Posts: 1232
From: Asia
Registered: Nov 2018

posted April 04, 2019 07:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hikaru29     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bismarck2:
The bi/quintile is somehwhere between a conjunction and a square. It's harmonious, but challenging in a bantering/flirting sort of way. It's a great aspect. Best aspect to have, IMO.

To interpret a bi/quintile between Venus and Neptune, look up the meaning of the conjunction and the square, and imagine it being somewhere in the middle. It's a harmonious square, or a challenging conjunction.

More info: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZ1-9B63Ewk


Ah... thanks! It's an exact biquintile so I was curious. Bantering/flirting doesn't sound negative at all but the interps online talk a lot about fantasies & disillusionments though.

Venus also closely quintile South Node.

IP: Logged

Stoika7
Knowflake

Posts: 123
From: Rome, Italy
Registered: Mar 2019

posted April 04, 2019 03:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stoika7     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Neptune is significant in the whole chart so this Venus/Neptune aspect empowers the romantic/fantasy element, in the negative and in the positive sides, so I agree with Bismarck2
The fact that there are those similarities between them and her previous relationships appears like a "pattern" she follows in relationships, and we all have our own of course, the problem is when the issues of the pattern show up again and again in the same way and we are not able to deal with that and make a step ahead, so since in her pattern the 12th house and Chiron aspects are involved, in my opinion, this is what she might need to get aware and work out, which is basically something having to do more with her own issues than relationship issues.... (of course this is just the idea I get from the charts and your tale about it, not the absolute truth!)

IP: Logged

Hikaru29
Knowflake

Posts: 1232
From: Asia
Registered: Nov 2018

posted April 05, 2019 02:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hikaru29     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Stoika7:
Neptune is significant in the whole chart so this Venus/Neptune aspect empowers the romantic/fantasy element, in the negative and in the positive sides, so I agree with Bismarck2
The fact that there are those similarities between them and her previous relationships appears like a "pattern" she follows in relationships, and we all have our own of course, the problem is when the issues of the pattern show up again and again in the same way and we are not able to deal with that and make a step ahead, so since in her pattern the 12th house and Chiron aspects are involved, in my opinion, this is what she might need to get aware and work out, which is basically something having to do more with her own issues than relationship issues.... (of course this is just the idea I get from the charts and your tale about it, not the absolute truth!)

Oh, the Neptune-Venus biquintile is in my Composite with Libra/Virgo guy, not in my friend's chart.

And you may be right about my friend's karmic lesson... why else would their Composite charts be so similar even though both guys have very different planets?

IP: Logged

Stoika7
Knowflake

Posts: 123
From: Rome, Italy
Registered: Mar 2019

posted April 05, 2019 03:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stoika7     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Hikaru29:
Oh, the Neptune-Venus biquintile is in my Composite with Libra/Virgo guy, not in my friend's chart.

Sorry about the misunderstanding! I had seen a Neptune-Venus trine in your friend's chart, so I must have confused this since I was focused about her :-D

IP: Logged

All times are Eastern Standard Time

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | Linda-Goodman.com

Copyright 2000-2019

Powered by Infopop www.infopop.com © 2000
Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.46a