posted June 06, 2020 12:14 PM            

This was not a romantic relationship, but a kind of romantic friendship. It started out with a lot of healing and growth (I had a kind of mothering role in his life, also feel like his professor intellectually) and became extremely toxic as we each went through a difficult time between 2011-2014 (especially our second Saturn squares). I stopped speaking to him and put a lot of distance between us emotionally/intellectually while he put distance between us physically by moving out of the country. After 3 or 4 years we have started speaking again and it is bringing up all kinds of feelings for me: issues of trust, betrayal, social anxiety, fear, feelings of worthlessness, shame, self-loathing, social paranoia, fears around self-expression and feelings of inadequacy. Social fears are especially fierce. I want to heal and overcome this, but I am not sure how. I see there are a lot of Chiron triggers and wonder if that is the key. I also see a lot of outer planet aspects but not sure if I should dismiss them because they are generational?

posted June 10, 2020 08:06 PM            

I would have dismissed the outer planet conjunctions because they're generational, so thank you for correcting me.

Co-dependence is DEFINITELY an accurate term for this relationship. So is MASOCHISM.

You are right also about the romantic/idealistic trait - at one point he claimed he was in love with me. And also that I was a mother figure to him. So, uh, that's fun.

Here is the composite - I'm curious what this can tell you that the synastry can't? Do you prefer composite over synastry in general?

I definitely thought he was finally out of my life but with this relationship resurfacing, I'm not sure if it's an opportunity to grow and heal or if I should save myself and run. He could potentially help me out professionally in the future, and is probably my best ally in the career shift I want to make, but I'm not sure I trust him given his gossipy and vindictive nature and everything he knows about me. What would your advice be? How can I read these charts better?

posted June 10, 2020 09:17 PM            

In the Composite you have a powerful stellium in 4th house of Cancer with Sun/Moon conjunct to IC/South Node (sorry in this image I can't see well how close the conjunction is but the position still looks quite significant) and with North Node (widely) conjunct to MC... the stellium also forms a very harmonic Grand Kite, since this includes Venus, Jupiter, Mars, Neptune, it seems that there is an underlying true love between you two, and apparently you should really feel like "family". Pluto trine to the stellium adds intensity and Mars sextile to Sun/Moon and trine to Uranus gives a lot of chemistry... Also, North Node on MC is a long term indicator and it might also have to do with the supporting aspect in career/business/professional sphere...

Unfortuntaley I can't see Chiron in the Composite you posted, which was one of the main aspetcs we should focus on... can you post a new chart including Chiron please?

The big issue here is Saturn square Mars and square Pluto... this is again a strong toxic trait suggesting strong conflicts, power and controlling issues, and that he's the one that rules the relationship in such a toxic way. It would be important to check where Chiron falls related to this aspect.

To answer your question, synastry shows the direct compatibility and personal attitudes towards each other, the Composite shows how the relationship is playing out, the nature of the relationship and long term potential... For instance, with the nodal axis conjunct to MC/IC and the Grand Kite, you can see that this is a very significant and long lasting relationship, also on a karmic level.

posted June 11, 2020 12:20 PM            

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...which suggests that he finds in you the ideal support for his deep need to find his self assertiveness and self-proud through attachment, dependability and "power" (here the toxic trait he has on his own)

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This is so completely true. He almost constantly needs to assert his power/pride over me. I had thought I simply triggered some of his insecurities around social class/status but it appears to run much deeper... How do I avoid triggering him? Or would that even be the right/possible thing to do?

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your Moon/Venus on his IC and his Moon/Venus/Jupiter trine to your Neptune/7th house makes you a powerful ideal figure as "the one".

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I had not imagined that his romantic feelings really ran that deep. I thought he was just being dramatic. I'm surprised, but it does explain his tenacity and intensity, in addition to all the other intensity between our charts lol

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But mainly his Chiron is your glue as you have suggested yourself because even though Saturn and Pluto are outer generational planets, they form the t-square to his Chiron/Mercury, triggering a very intense feeling of "seizing" each other more than belonging to each other, a very deep merging feeling that is like a mirror to each your souls and deep wounds, and at the same time a deep psychological codependence and all those negative dynamics we have said....

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I know I keep saying how right you are but you really hit the nail on the head here! It is very much "seizing" moreso than belonging, and I feel seized. Have you been in a similar relationship before or seen it in others? I would love to hear about similar situations.

You are right also about the "underlying true love" and feeling like family. It is very much that way and that's what keeps us bonded, I guess, this Grand Kite. I was wondering about the Grand Kite as well... The oppositions look intense between outer planets in Capricorn in the 10th and the rather vulnerable inner planets in Cancer in the 4th, no?

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Also, North Node on MC is a long term indicator and it might also have to do with the supporting aspect in career/business/professional sphere...

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I see what you're saying and I'm relieved about the supporting MC, but does the stellium opposite combat that? Do you think there is still potential for a good professional relationship?

I definitely agree with you about the karmic aspects, I often feel I'm laboriously paying off some sort of karmic debt I owe him. A karmic debt I thought I had paid but I guess the transiting nodes disagree... lol. All the Saturn and nodal aspects do seem to indicate this is a longer term relationship than I had thought/hoped. Would you say it is more NN/growth-oriented or SN/holding each other back?

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The big issue here is Saturn square Mars and square Pluto... this is again a strong toxic trait suggesting strong conflicts, power and controlling issues, and that he's the one that rules the relationship in such a toxic way. It would be important to check where Chiron falls related to this aspect.

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With the Saturn/Mars/Pluto square, would you say there is a way to overcome his "toxic rulership" of the relationship or is it simply something that has to be managed?

Here is hopefully a more detailed composite:

Hm, Chiron directly opposed by Saturn and squared by Mars... sounds bad. ??? I am a little confused about why the Chiron is not also squaring Pluto, I guess the orb is just too wide? Still, it looks like a bad square.

posted June 12, 2020 12:45 AM            

Also, the Moon/Jupiter midpoint is conjunct to Chiron, so yes, this is definitely your glue, and with this aspect it's actually positive and may point to a possible "healing", but this would require that the deep intimacy such conjunction suggests to develope in an harmonic way.

I think that North Node on MC and Saturn in the 10th and Jupiter in the 6th suggest that the professional aspect is favourable, even though with Saturn quincunx to venus and Jupiter it is possible that for such aspect to work out your should put aside/separate somehow the more intimate involvement from the professional one... or just keep everything well under control.

The South Node conjunct IC might become emotionally detaching with time... the north node transiting on this might trigger a new cicle in the relationship, maybe actually triggering such detachment from the old past negative dynamics between you two. Transiting Chiron is currently trine to Composite Chiron, so this might support such "healing" from the past.

How can you avoid triggering his past wounds, this depend mainly from each your own self awareness, since it's really a mirroring that must be broken... your natal Saturn square Sun is what he triggers in you, so the mroe you find your individual "structure" and self-assertiveness, the more you will be able to deal with what you trigger to each other negatively.

posted June 12, 2020 12:06 PM            

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the issue here is basically Mars square Chiron, which is mainly HIS own issue to be solved which he seems to project over this relationship... this is also an eccentric and selfish trait of a push-and pull mirroring dynamic where he may "throw" on you the solution of his own (self-denying) wounds and need to impose his ego... this is likely a subconscious process of him that, as the Composite also shows, is being triggered by this relationship

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This is so completely true. Don't apologize because you're completely right! I just wish it wasn't happening with ME.

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Also, the Moon/Jupiter midpoint is conjunct to Chiron, so yes, this is definitely your glue, and with this aspect it's actually positive and may point to a possible "healing", but this would require that the deep intimacy such conjunction suggests to develope in an harmonic way.

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I don't know that I can let him in again because I am still healing from the first time! I agree with you that I will have to "put aside/separate somehow the more intimate involvement from the professional one... or just keep everything well under control."

I'm encouraged by the transits you mentioned, and the other positive parts too. I have soooo much to learn about transits also, and keeping track of them.

THANK YOU so, so much for pointing out all these things. I really didn't know how to start or where to look and didn't even consider a composite. I hadn't looked into my natal Saturn square Sun until you mentioned it but it was incredibly eye-opening and resonated with me strongly. I had ignored it because the orb seemed too wide but I definitely feel it!

posted June 23, 2020 12:08 AM            

I was also just reading about grand trines and grand kites in composites and what struck me is that I read the opposing planet (outside the trine) is where you go to get the relationship un-stuck from the endless loop of the grand trine - is that true??

In this case, would that mean exercising more nurturing/mothering/compassion (with those Cancer placements) would be the solution?

posted June 23, 2020 03:20 AM            

@sashavittoria

"In this case, would that mean exercising more nurturing/mothering/compassion (with those Cancer placements) would be the solution?"

Somehow, yes. The stellium in 4th house Cancer looks like true love :-)
The Neptune/Uranus opposition (in the 10th) looks like a challenge about emotional instability and common ground, but the balance of the kite suggests a compromise is possible. Chiron is in 5th house Leo and it's conjunct to the Sun-Moon/Jupiter midpoint, square to Mars, so this suggests that this relationship is "wounded" at its most loving and spontaneous emotional level (by a selfish issue given by Mars), so maybe Chiron as the Sun-Moon/Jupiter midpoint, more than the kite, but along with a potential balance given by the kite, carries the key for "healing".

posted June 23, 2020 03:47 AM            

I don't think I wouldn't even be able to begin explaining half of the just random, weird, amazing, and also some awful situations we’ve found ourselves in, and also the insane synchronicities. Just one example; we met a couple weeks before she moved into her first apartment in the city which I later realized was MY EXACT SAME APARTMENT YEARS PRIOR! Literally same exact unit and all. She had also just moved out of her parents house in the burbs that just so happens to be like 4 blocks away from my Dad's work that he commutes an hour too.

I guess you could say that I've always felt things with the volume on high but this is just overwhelming. Also just everything about it makes all the sense in the world and none at all at the same time.

A little basic context, the chart is for two women. I am the cancer sun. It's also a "romantic friendship" despite both of us identifying as "straight." To say the connection and draw is intense would be a drastic understatement. The internal and external conflicts its brought about are also intense.

I'm happy to answer any questions and would be so grateful for any insight. Its like my eyes are wide open but i'm flying blind at the same time. Thank you in advance for taking the time to even read all this, I hope everyone is healthy and happy!

Charts with major planets and angles only right only here and i posted both with aspect grids in the next post

posted June 23, 2020 04:11 AM            

Me : Cancer Sun / Pisces Asc / Sagittarius Moon
Her: Gemini Sun / Cancer Asc / Leo Moon

Thank you again!