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Author Topic:   Superstition and belief
dafremen
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posted May 13, 2004 01:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for dafremen     Edit/Delete Message
"When you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer. Superstition ain't the way."
- Stevie Wonder Superstition

Belief and its hold upon the human condition. It is a fallacy of our human conditioning. These are the lies we hold sacred which divide siblings, families, nations and, in fact, all of humankind. Partial truths become the "entirety of truth" within the limited vision of mortal men and women.

As soon as the light begins to shine through the cracks around the door, we turn away, having latched onto one single shaft of light as the Way, the Truth and the Light of understanding.

Meanwhile, behind the door lies the totality of Truth in its simplicity, awaiting our return to the search for its brilliance.

Where can belief lead us? What good can come of partial truth embraced, for its effects upon the spirit, as total truth? If one of us sees first illumination coming from the top of the door, while another catches their intitial glimpse at the bottom, wherever could a meeting in the middle find us but smack dab in the center of a closed door?

This is belief: A superstition based upon the impatient reaction of men to the urging of their spirits. Premature evangelation sprayed upon the masses. Of this I am guilty. I have fallen in the trap that has caught so many and feel only shame for my gullibility.

Turn your back upon belief, face the door and witness its opening.

Then and only then may we walk as one into the Light. Superstition ain't the way.

Love,

daf

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quiksilver
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From: new jersey, usa
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posted May 25, 2004 11:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for quiksilver     Edit/Delete Message
I am just trying to understand..... You are saying that you are guilty of evangelation? Unless I am not grasping something .....

q.

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dafremen
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posted May 26, 2004 12:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for dafremen     Edit/Delete Message
Preaching belief as though it were knowledge.

daf

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FishKitten
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From: beautiful, hidden mountain village, BC, Canada
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posted May 26, 2004 02:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for FishKitten     Edit/Delete Message
Dear Dafremen...A wise man changes his mind many times throughout his life. A fool never does. Sometimes it can be difficult to tell the difference between knowledge and belief. If you are at the point where you can begin to make the differentiation, you are doing quite well, my friend.

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FairyStar
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From: Spring,Tx
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posted May 26, 2004 08:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for FairyStar     Edit/Delete Message
Hello, I was wondering, what is the best way to tell between knowledge and belief?

How can you tell is someone is teaching their belief instead of real knowledge?

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LittleLadyLeo
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From: New Franklin, MO, USA
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posted May 26, 2004 08:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LittleLadyLeo     Edit/Delete Message
Here's how I do it FairyStar. Take the opposite position. If they start a heated argument, calling you a fool and such, then it's belief. If it's knowledge the other person will just look at you and smile most times. For where their is knowledge there is no need to make you believe, just know.

LLL

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juniperb
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posted May 26, 2004 10:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb     Edit/Delete Message
Welcome to the gears of infinity at work Daf

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If having a soul means being able to feel love and loyalty and gratitude, then animals are better off than a lot of humans. ~James Herriot

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FishKitten
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From: beautiful, hidden mountain village, BC, Canada
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posted May 27, 2004 01:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for FishKitten     Edit/Delete Message
Very perceptive, LittleLadyLeo!

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LittleLadyLeo
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From: New Franklin, MO, USA
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posted May 27, 2004 08:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LittleLadyLeo     Edit/Delete Message
Thanks FishKitten. In fact it came in very handy at work today. I've been having some trouble with one of my co-workers being a little...well..."above" her job and everyone else in the office. This morning we kind of got into it about my being "sharp" with her over an incident with a prospective patient. (She is overly sensitive to people being upset with her.) As she was expressing her anger at me I reminded myself that she "believed" she was right in her recounting (and retelling) of what happened, whereas I knew what she had said and the consequences of it. A sudden sense of calm came over me and the rest of the day she stewed and spewed as I acted like nothing happened. Maybe I shouldn't feel smug about it, but in a way I do. She is literally making herself sick because of her dislike for me and her job and yet, according to her, none of it is her fault. I feel sorry for her more than anything, and pray that one day she will find joy and knowledge in her self.

Sorry for spewing, but I needed to say it.

Blessings to all.

LLL

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Gia
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posted May 28, 2004 03:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gia     Edit/Delete Message
Seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. Whoever knocks persistently, will finally enter eventually so don't you fret too much dafremen. I adore reading your postings. Please don't ever stop. Good job!

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maklhouf
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posted May 28, 2004 04:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for maklhouf     Edit/Delete Message
When our thoughts provide no comfort, only "being physical" can come to our rescue. That may be one answer to five questions on: "Why we have a body?" Can anyone come up with any more?

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Randall
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posted May 30, 2004 02:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message

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"Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark

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dafremen
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posted May 30, 2004 10:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for dafremen     Edit/Delete Message
There are props, costumes, characters and actors who play those characters upon the stage. Think of your body as the costume which your character wears. Wouldn't a showing of Henry VIII look strange if the king were wearing Levi's and a polo shirt?

Love,

daf

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maven
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From: Rennes-le-Chateau
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posted May 31, 2004 11:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for maven     Edit/Delete Message
We are but poor and humble players on this stage of Life.Some recognise this Grand Comedie and some do not.I constantly have to laugh at my life and myself or to be frank..I would go quite nuts.What is the purpose of a body?With much thought I would have to say I believe it would be in the grounding.A body makes us "real" and in a way keeps us connected to the everyday,the seemingly ever moving world around us.Having a body also teaches us valuable lessons.Everyone has a different body and therefore a different lesson.Take for example those born with a birth defect..people who "look different" from the societal norm.The people I know like this are blessed beyond belief with understanding and patience.They know everyone will view them as being different and to some people being different equates with "not being good".So in effect they are teachers as well..not only teaching themselves but others blinded by ignorance.I think everyone has an etherial existance and that we exist on more than just this plane that we see.This of course is just what I have come to embrace and reailty differs for everyone and that is the beauty of it all.One person may see blue whereas the next may interpret lilac.Life would be so boring if we were all alike.The gift is in the knowing.Whether or not having a body is the ultimate teacher...I don't know.But it seems that everyone learns their lessons right when they need it most.Wonderful discussion topic and LLL, brilliant points as always.Many Blessings......maven

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"I am an enigma,wrapped up in a mystery,shrouded by lies"

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quiksilver
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From: new jersey, usa
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posted June 04, 2004 02:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for quiksilver     Edit/Delete Message
I think I rate understanding higher than believing. But understanding is not the same thing as knowing because knowing seems to be relative. (Right?) You can think you know something but if everyone else "knows" differently, then what is real knowledge? I think the answer is that all is illusion. Or maybe I'm just saying that because it sounds like I know what the hell I'm talking about when I'm really just as clueless as the next person... I try to understand but the world at large does not conspire to cooperate with this effort.

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dafremen
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posted June 04, 2004 08:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for dafremen     Edit/Delete Message
Knowing is not subjective. Knowing is objective.

You can know that which you WILL NOT believe. When you are blessed with true knowledge you will know it, and when that knowledge goes against the very foundations of common human belief, you will find believing it to be the most difficult proposition you have ever faced.

Love,

daf

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FishKitten
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posted June 04, 2004 12:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for FishKitten     Edit/Delete Message
Belief vs. Knowledge...when you are a small child and someone tells you not to touch something because it is hot and will hurt, you may BELIEVE them, but you also may touch it just to see what hot means. After having grabbed the radiator just once, you KNOW exactly what hot is and belief doesn't enter into it any more. It is the same with esoteric matters. Actually KNOWING something means you have experienced it yourself and that is very different than believing it because someone else tells you about it.

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quiksilver
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posted June 05, 2004 02:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for quiksilver     Edit/Delete Message
Ah, but just because you know does not mean you UNDERSTAND what you know. Once you understand what you know, then belief is possible. Yes, the radiator is hot, but WHY is it hot? This question leads to the process of uncovering - of UNDERSTANDING, which strengthens BELIEF in the KNOWLEDGE. Without understanding, belief is not possible and knowledge serves no purpose. That is really what I was getting at. But lest all this be construed as mere semantics, I recline.

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dafremen
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posted June 05, 2004 07:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for dafremen     Edit/Delete Message
I understand it, but just because I can grasp it intellectually, does NOT mean I have grasped it spiritually. And HERE is the rub:

If what I know is that my "self" and "ego" are illusions created by my mind, then how could "I" believe it? Once belief kicks in, there will be no "I".

daf

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quiksilver
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From: new jersey, usa
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posted June 05, 2004 10:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for quiksilver     Edit/Delete Message
True, true! How might one narrow the gap between intellectual and spiritual understanding though? Also, if there is no "I" to perceive, understand, know, believe, etc., then there is ...no one. There just "IS", correct? I'm not quite sure I get that second part of your last posting. Is there another way you might be able to convey the idea? I feel it is just out of "my" grasp but am trying to put it all together....

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LittleLadyLeo
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From: New Franklin, MO, USA
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posted June 06, 2004 12:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LittleLadyLeo     Edit/Delete Message
Ah, dafremen, the Power of Now. YOU are not the 'self' and 'ego' illusions that have been created by the mind. YOU are above and beyond even the mind. So just because YOU believe in something it does not mean YOU do not exist anymore. If anything YOU are made stronger by replacing the 'self' and 'ego' with something more - FAITH.


LLL

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dafremen
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posted June 06, 2004 07:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for dafremen     Edit/Delete Message
Are you talking to God...or to me?

daf

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quiksilver
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posted June 06, 2004 09:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for quiksilver     Edit/Delete Message
Daf, you were directing your last response to Little LL, correct? Just wanted to be sure, as I was definitely addressing my question to you, (not God )

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quiksilver
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posted June 06, 2004 09:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for quiksilver     Edit/Delete Message
Incidentally though, daf - I am curious as to the intent of your last response, to whomever it was directed. I have not yet experienced enough to really know the answers to much of anything at this point, but it seems LLL brings another possibility to the table, worthy of some discussion.

LLL - please talk more about the idea of "YOU". "You" ( ) have expressed the idea that "You" is more than ego. And that ideally one can replace this ego with faith. My question to you is: faith in what, exactly? Please elaborate when you have an opportunity.

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LittleLadyLeo
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posted June 06, 2004 12:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LittleLadyLeo     Edit/Delete Message
Thanks for asking quicksilver. I guess my post was rather vague as I was quite exhausted when I wrote it.

When I say YOU I mean the Higher S-elf, the all knowing spirit that inhabits the shell we call a body. It is somewhat difficult to explain in my own words, but allow me to try. When someone repays a karmic debt on you YOU know why they have done what they have. But your ego, feeling itself threatened, wants to return the karma likewise. It is up to YOU to see past the threatened ego, understand the debt has been paid, and stop the cycle of karmic retribution. YOU can control how the ego acts and reacts.

As to what I meant by replacing the ego with faith. To be honest I'm not entirely sure. It was a spiraling moment. Let's see if I can get it back.

Belief and knowledge are illusions created by an illusion, the mind. Yes, even knowledge. I 'know' the sky is blue, but to someone who is colorblind it is not. Knowledge is subjective to the collective unconscious of the universe. Belief is subjective to the individual unconscious. But faith is 'knowing' what you 'believe.' By having faith YOU have added strength over the ego and self. When there is faith belief and knowledge take on less significence. Faith speaks to YOU, not the ego or self, because they cannot grasp faith. Illusory things can only handle other illusory things.

As to your question about replacing the ego with faith in what, all I can say quicksilver is YOU will find the faith YOU are meant to have. YOU speak with the illusory mind, ego, and self at all times and YOU will let these know what faith is.

I'm not sure if any of this will help or not, as I am still searching for understanding myself. (The illusory mind is so unwilling to listen to ME.)

LLL

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