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T O P I C R E V I E WDayDreamerI just want to say that I am beginning to realize why Astrology has been kept in the dark for so long. If this art and science form is practiced without knowlege, understanding and wisdom, then people will abuse and misinterpret it...and instead of helping people it will hinder them by creating biases, stereotypes and negatives judgments.WaterNymphTotally agree. Can you imagine if your employer asked for your chart…and from that decide whether or not to employ you I’d lie and say my b-day is in early Jan or July well...it’d depend on the job.LaurenI agree as well DD. I've probably said this around here one too many times lol..but yes I DO agree quote:Can you imagine if your employer asked for your chart…and from that decide whether or not to employ youWN lol I actually did think of that as well, when someone here joined..something they said made me think of just that. But realistically I think it's pretty unlikely which is a good thing WaterNymphlol true and lets hope it never happens - otherwise I’ll be unemployed for a loooooooooong time aquayes,very much i agree with you DayDreamer,Lauren ; and WaterNymph too...hoping!! wilsontcWaterNymph, quote:Can you imagine if your employer asked for your chart…and from that decide whether or not to employ youActually, for the highest paying jobs sometimes highly experienced astrologers (such as Noel Tyl) ARE called in to determine compatability with the job. Of course, this is not widely publicized.Astrology is everywhere (even where you don't expect it ),TimIqhunkThe biggest secret is Financial Astrology. Many top mutual funds secretly use the birth charts of stock exchanges to plan large scale investments.Infact, one billionaire, JP Morgan I think said "Anyone can be a millionaire but to be a billionaire, one needs an astrologer."LaurenTim-Fact or Fiction? Any proof of this or just a rumor? If it isn't just a rumor..then it's illegal and I'm sure that at some point these people will get sued and it will unavoidably turn into a massive scandal. Iqhunk - quote:The biggest secret is Financial Astrology. Many top mutual funds secretly use the birth charts of stock exchanges to plan large scale investments.Actually, that wouldn't surprise me.. AcousticGodI don't think they have any law about discriminating on the basis of astrology in the U.S.Between candidates of equal qualification, however, it wouldn't give any sense of impropriety if the employer secretly uses astrology to inform his/her opinion. In any group of similarly qualified people applying for the same job there's going to be a selection based on something or another. Also, for these top executive jobs, there are often personality tests of some kind to determine mental stability, so an astrological profile could just be another indicator.AcousticGodThat guy Noel Tyl seems pretty remarkable. Worth googling.calwesIn my job in the carribbean I believe I am the only person on my island who discreetly look at applicants birthdate and do their charts to get an idea of their competency for the job. I am financial controller So I have accesss to personnel files hence I look at birth date of all my colleagues and hence I have a better understanding of people than other in the organisationPop Producer quote:I’d lie and say my b-day is in early Jan or July well...it’d depend on the job.Would you hire someone with a strong cardinal sign configuration? (Cap or Cancer). Chances are that they'll replace you in six months! Go for Virgos. Not afraid of hard work, keep working even in a middle of a personal emotional disaster and like to be given directions... Pop Producer[QUOTES]If it isn't just a rumor..then it's illegal and I'm sure that at some point these people will get sued and it will unavoidably turn into a massive scandal.[/QUOTES]I'm pretty sure darker things than this happen in the world of high finances... But I don't see why it should be illegal... Investements are risky, no one can really tell if a certain company or bond or whatever will give money next year. What's the difference between investing in a certain paper out of intuition or rumours and investing because an astrologer suggested it? LaurenIf a person is employed through preferential treatment on anything but their qualifications for that particular job, this can be argued to be illegal in a court of law. At the moment the law obviously doesn't include "astrology" specifically because it would be purposeless. I'm pretty sure that there haven't been a great number of cases where discrimination on astrology has been an issue. Under the Civil Rights Act:SEC. 703. (a) It shall be an unlawful employment practice for an employer-- (1) to fail or refuse to hire or to discharge any individual, or otherwise to discriminate against any individual with respect to his compensation, terms, conditions, or privileges of employment, because of such individual's race, color, religion, sex, or national origin; or (2) to limit, segregate, or classify his employees in any way which would deprive or tend to deprive any individual of employment opportunities or otherwise adversely affect his status as an employee, because of such individual's race, color, religion, sex, or national origin. Now, arguing that - preferential treatement used to employ a person based on their astrological chart NOT their qualifications for the job - should be included in the Civil Rights Act..would be a piece of cake. The law changes, courts make case law every day. The problem isn't proving that it's illegal and shouldn't be done.. That's plainly evident and it's the reason why, IF employers are indeed doing this they are keeping it *private*. They're not silly enough to think they'd get away with it legally if it was *public* So again the problem isn't proving it's illegal. The problem is proving they've actually DONE IT.. that they've actually denied a person employment on this basis alone. This would be hard to prove but deffinitely NOT impossible. Which is why I said *eventually* if people are doing this, it will *at some point* turn into a massive scandal. All it takes is for one person (even better it they're of a different etnicity/race - the bigger the scandal) to find out this is the reason they were denied the job, collect proof of this and get a good lawyer. quote:In any group of similarly qualified people applying for the same job there's going to be a selection based on something or another.Yes, based on their qualifications and abilities. quote:Also, for these top executive jobs, there are often personality tests of some kind to determine mental stability, so an astrological profile could just be another indicator.In a psychological test, the individual applying for the job answers the questions..and his/her psychological profile is determined according to his/her answers to those questions.Therefore, that is NOT an accurate comparisson. Because an astrology chart is a map of the sky the day you were born. Something beyond your control. It isn't your psychological profile AS fact. It is other people's assumptions, based on an esoteric belief THAT IS NOT recognised as science, ON your personality.. which can be accurate, or completely inaccurate. There is no way to prove it's accuracy. Not in a court of law in any event.Which again, like I said (typed lol) earlier is the main reason why if these people were in fact doing this, they would do their best to keep it private (but it doesn't take to long for the shi*t to hit the fan, IMO..if this does in fact happen)Pop- quote:What's the difference between investing in a certain paper out of intuition or rumours and investing because an astrologer suggested it?I never said *that* would be illegal. It isn't. To *that* I said, "I wouldn't be surprised if it happens".AcousticGodAssuming qualifications are equal what do you turn to? First come first serve?Amongst qualifications that are equal, but not congruent, it might be handy to be able to assess personality strengths.Once again we go back to the premise of whether or not astrology is viable as a science. You don't believe it is. I, and some of the others here, believe that after thousands of years of observation it's as practical and true a science as any. I don't know where we can go beyond this without making this a competition of intelligence. Then again Wilson has sort of implied that it already is as people are using it as a means of determining the best people for the highest paying jobs.So you think the hiring agent of a person of equal qualifications to yours who is chosen over you due to astrology is going to have trouble defending his/her decision as a matter of practicality apart from astrology? If the qualifications are equal and they go with someone else, there's not a whole lot to argue against regardless of whether astrology is involved. They can bring in everyone they had you interview with, and have them give their impressions, and whether for or against you it's going to sound equitable because you are of the same qualification, so mostly it will be about personality and what their general feelings were about you and the other candidate. If they hated the way the hired candidate acted, they would be crazy to hire him or her based on astrology. I think it would be extraordinarily difficult to make a discrimination case out of this scenario.QuarkWater Nymph, Im with you. We would be in deep trouble... unless we were monks!!!!Ohhhhmmmmmm..... WaterNymphHey PopP I do have a Virgo Moon singleton “that they've actually denied a person employment on this basis alone.”OMG! I would be soooooooo p***** off if an employer rejected me because of my chart - something I have no control over......he might as well have said - I rejected you due to your gender, race, religion etc LaurenQuark how about therapy?missioHUMBLE CONSCIENCE is the key.Which is a totally personal form of "work".So, for sure, Astrology is a very dicey "business"...astro junkieDayDreamer -I've often said that too, as when I first got into "astrology", it was like riding a bucking bull.YOU'VE ALL BEEN FOREWARNED!! ------------------ ... it's better to light a candle than curse the darkness
I’d lie and say my b-day is in early Jan or July well...it’d depend on the job.
quote:Can you imagine if your employer asked for your chart…and from that decide whether or not to employ you
WN lol I actually did think of that as well, when someone here joined..something they said made me think of just that. But realistically I think it's pretty unlikely which is a good thing
Actually, for the highest paying jobs sometimes highly experienced astrologers (such as Noel Tyl) ARE called in to determine compatability with the job. Of course, this is not widely publicized.
Astrology is everywhere (even where you don't expect it ),
Tim
Fact or Fiction?
Any proof of this or just a rumor?
If it isn't just a rumor..then it's illegal and I'm sure that at some point these people will get sued and it will unavoidably turn into a massive scandal.
Iqhunk -
quote:The biggest secret is Financial Astrology. Many top mutual funds secretly use the birth charts of stock exchanges to plan large scale investments.
Actually, that wouldn't surprise me..
Between candidates of equal qualification, however, it wouldn't give any sense of impropriety if the employer secretly uses astrology to inform his/her opinion. In any group of similarly qualified people applying for the same job there's going to be a selection based on something or another. Also, for these top executive jobs, there are often personality tests of some kind to determine mental stability, so an astrological profile could just be another indicator.
quote:I’d lie and say my b-day is in early Jan or July well...it’d depend on the job.
Would you hire someone with a strong cardinal sign configuration? (Cap or Cancer). Chances are that they'll replace you in six months!
Go for Virgos. Not afraid of hard work, keep working even in a middle of a personal emotional disaster and like to be given directions...
I'm pretty sure darker things than this happen in the world of high finances...
But I don't see why it should be illegal... Investements are risky, no one can really tell if a certain company or bond or whatever will give money next year. What's the difference between investing in a certain paper out of intuition or rumours and investing because an astrologer suggested it?
Under the Civil Rights Act:
SEC. 703. (a) It shall be an unlawful employment practice for an employer-- (1) to fail or refuse to hire or to discharge any individual, or otherwise to discriminate against any individual with respect to his compensation, terms, conditions, or privileges of employment, because of such individual's race, color, religion, sex, or national origin; or
(2) to limit, segregate, or classify his employees in any way which would deprive or tend to deprive any individual of employment opportunities or otherwise adversely affect his status as an employee, because of such individual's race, color, religion, sex, or national origin.
Now, arguing that - preferential treatement used to employ a person based on their astrological chart NOT their qualifications for the job - should be included in the Civil Rights Act..would be a piece of cake. The law changes, courts make case law every day. The problem isn't proving that it's illegal and shouldn't be done.. That's plainly evident and it's the reason why, IF employers are indeed doing this they are keeping it *private*. They're not silly enough to think they'd get away with it legally if it was *public*
So again the problem isn't proving it's illegal. The problem is proving they've actually DONE IT.. that they've actually denied a person employment on this basis alone. This would be hard to prove but deffinitely NOT impossible. Which is why I said *eventually* if people are doing this, it will *at some point* turn into a massive scandal. All it takes is for one person (even better it they're of a different etnicity/race - the bigger the scandal) to find out this is the reason they were denied the job, collect proof of this and get a good lawyer.
quote:In any group of similarly qualified people applying for the same job there's going to be a selection based on something or another.
Yes, based on their qualifications and abilities.
quote:Also, for these top executive jobs, there are often personality tests of some kind to determine mental stability, so an astrological profile could just be another indicator.
In a psychological test, the individual applying for the job answers the questions..and his/her psychological profile is determined according to his/her answers to those questions.
Therefore, that is NOT an accurate comparisson. Because an astrology chart is a map of the sky the day you were born. Something beyond your control. It isn't your psychological profile AS fact. It is other people's assumptions, based on an esoteric belief THAT IS NOT recognised as science, ON your personality.. which can be accurate, or completely inaccurate. There is no way to prove it's accuracy. Not in a court of law in any event.
Which again, like I said (typed lol) earlier is the main reason why if these people were in fact doing this, they would do their best to keep it private (but it doesn't take to long for the shi*t to hit the fan, IMO..if this does in fact happen)
Pop-
quote:What's the difference between investing in a certain paper out of intuition or rumours and investing because an astrologer suggested it?
I never said *that* would be illegal. It isn't. To *that* I said, "I wouldn't be surprised if it happens".
Amongst qualifications that are equal, but not congruent, it might be handy to be able to assess personality strengths.
Once again we go back to the premise of whether or not astrology is viable as a science. You don't believe it is. I, and some of the others here, believe that after thousands of years of observation it's as practical and true a science as any.
I don't know where we can go beyond this without making this a competition of intelligence. Then again Wilson has sort of implied that it already is as people are using it as a means of determining the best people for the highest paying jobs.
So you think the hiring agent of a person of equal qualifications to yours who is chosen over you due to astrology is going to have trouble defending his/her decision as a matter of practicality apart from astrology?
If the qualifications are equal and they go with someone else, there's not a whole lot to argue against regardless of whether astrology is involved. They can bring in everyone they had you interview with, and have them give their impressions, and whether for or against you it's going to sound equitable because you are of the same qualification, so mostly it will be about personality and what their general feelings were about you and the other candidate. If they hated the way the hired candidate acted, they would be crazy to hire him or her based on astrology. I think it would be extraordinarily difficult to make a discrimination case out of this scenario.
Ohhhhmmmmmm.....
“that they've actually denied a person employment on this basis alone.”
OMG! I would be soooooooo p***** off if an employer rejected me because of my chart - something I have no control over......he might as well have said - I rejected you due to your gender, race, religion etc Lauren
Quark how about therapy?
Which is a totally personal form of "work".
So, for sure, Astrology is a very dicey "business"...
I've often said that too, as when I first got into "astrology", it was like riding a bucking bull.
YOU'VE ALL BEEN FOREWARNED!!
------------------ ... it's better to light a candle than curse the darkness
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