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T O P I C R E V I E Wneptune5Is everyone familiar with their Lilith? I know its not a MAJOR asteroid, but it does have some MAJOR effects on how you interact in public situations. Here's a site that will help: http://www.sria.org/lilith_demon.htm Whats your Lilith, what house does it occupy, and tell of few aspects of any. Here's my example:sagittarius lilith in the 4th house, i have a moon square lilith.------------------Virgo Rising, Sagittarius Sun, Pisces MoonGlaucusHere is my take on the Black Moon LilithWe know the mythology behind Lilith. Some believed that she was the first wife of Adam. She refused to be under Adam. She left. She supposedly came to men in their sleep and tempted them. Some believe that she was a demoness in Jewish myths.In the chart, I feel that Black Moon Lilith has to do with equal rights, women's rights, liberalism, rebelliousness,feminine power andpassionBecause it is the lunar apogee, it has to do with lunar qualities too.Therefore, I would add intuition,sensitivity,instincts,subtleties,unconsciousI have Sun conjunct true position of Black Moon Lillith in Scorpio with 23 minutes of arc. I feel that Black Moon Lillith adds to the sexuality,passion,intensity,sensitivity,intuition,subtleness of my Sun in Scorpio. With my Sun-Black Moon Lillith in 2nd house, I have myown values and don't care adopting other's values. I am better off self employed because I wouldn't want to make money for other people. Of course, I have unaspected Uranus in 2nd trine Midheaven.I have a strong respect for the strength of females. I believe that females can do things just as good as males can and even better. Igrew up believing that females were not the weaker sex. My mother was a very strong woman. She saved herself and me from a schizophrenic guy that shot her when I was 3 years old. She just lost her temper, andher anger and rage empowered her. She wasintense,passionate,erratic,stubborn,independent. When she was at her worst, she was dangerous,crazy,manipulative,and deceptive. She took her feminine status for granted. She would hit me, and she knew that I wouldn't do anything because she's a woman. My mother has Moon in Scorpio in 5th square Pluto and trine Uranus in Cancer in 2nd. That indicates the traits that I have mentioned. I always heard my mother tell my stepfather "You don't tell me what to do." It was a regular thing for her to say. She has confronted him with a knife more than once. My mom was a very attractive-looking woman. People always tell me that my mom is very pretty. My mother had a magnetism about her. Her eyes are intense. She doesn't have Scorpio Rising nor Pluto aspect her ascendant. She has Cancer Ascendant, and her ascendant ruler is in Scorpio square her Moon. Being her son, I do have her traits. However, I don't do those things that I mentioned. I did butt heads with my parents. I rebelled bymouthing off to them because I felt they were being tyrants,and I told them so. I expressed my rage and anger towards them. I did the same thing when I was in the navy. I did what I was told, but I spoke out against things that weren't right. I have been a hothead. I seem to exude a strong feminine energy which gets me mistaken for being gay.I have had numerous dreams of succubi. The dreams seem so real. They took place when I was in my bed.This is how I experience my Black Moon Lillith energy. It's not going to be the same for everybody because of different sign and house placements as well as aspects.Because Black Moon Lilith is an abstract point like the ascendant and midheaven, I believe that it can be used in midpoints. Ascendant and Midheaven are used in Cosmobiology and Uranian Astrology. UranianAstrology does use the transneptunian points. I have started studying Uranian Astrology,and I find that the transneptunian points can beinsightful. I found out that my father had Sun = Hades/Poseidon like me, and he was highly superstitious like me. He strongly believed in the metaphysical like me. He was a Creole man from New Orleans,and hebelieved in New Orleans Voodoo. He was raised by a grandmother who left snakes on the porch to ward off negative spirits. My father was amystery to me because I never knew him. He was out of my life when I was 1 year old. That can also be reflected by my Sun conj True Black Moon Lilith. My father seemed to have the traits of the Black Moon Lilith,and he was absent from my life.P.S. I like Juan Revilla's view about Black Moon Lillith. He evensays that it relates to magick and occult. I like Hunter's view aboutBlack Moon Lillith too.I also have true Black Moon Lilith parallel Mercury with 15 minutes of arc, parallel Venus with 1 minute of arc,parallel Neptune with 48 minutes of arc,and contraparallel Saturn with 54 minutes of arc.parallels are like conjunctionscontraparallels are like oppositionsthose are declination(latitude coordinations involving celestial equator) aspects whbtw....Winona Ryder has Sun conjunct true Black Moon Lillith inScorpio too. She's my birthdate twin.RaymondOctober 29, 19713:20 AMSan Francisco, CAastrological stuff about the black moon/dark moon lilith http://www.expreso.co.cr/centaurs/blackmoon/lilith.html http://www.aquamoonlight.co.uk/lilith-dark-moon.html http://www.mountainastrologer.com/hunter.html http://astrologer.ru/book/dark_moon/index.html.en Do you think that the person got the Lilith idea from the Iranian female demoness called Druj?She seems to have Lilith like traits. Ifound out that Druj is an ancient Iranian female demon. I read that she causes much evil with horny men. She is the eternal opponent of Asha Vahista. She is called Drug or Drauga. I read that she was one ofthe Daeva(class of demons in Zoroastrianism), and Druj is the female personification of wickedness.Russian astrologers call the true Black Moon(true lunar apogee) Druj.I have Sun conj true Black Moon myself. I feel that it can be about inner demons like psychological issues,intuition,unconventional,strong sensitivity,primal urges,sexuality,and supernatural things. http://www.astrologer.ru:8004/book/dark_moon/index.html.en http://www.enctype.de/Daemonen/1inhaldru.htm http://www.deliriumsrealm.com/delirium/mythology/daevas.asp http://www.mc.maricopa.edu/dept/d10/asb/anthro2003/legacy/ur/ugs/zoroa ster.htmlneptune5Thanks for the descriptive info Glaucus.neptune 5------------------Virgo Rising, Sagittarius Sun, Pisces Moonneptune5Thanks for the descriptive info Glaucus.neptune 5------------------Virgo Rising, Sagittarius Sun, Pisces MoonGemini NymphBML is no the same thing as asteriod Lilith. It's an calcuted point. I don't give into scary interps of Lilith, probably because I'm very comfortable with her. Lilith is very srtong in my chart - both Lilith and BM Lilith are conjunct in the 1H, in the early degrees of Libra. They lay precisely between my Pluto rising and my Uranus singleton. They aspect my Venus-Saturn conjunction, Jupiter-Neptune conjunction, Vesta and few other asteriods. They're a busy pair in my chart.I see myself as manifesting both the positive and negative sides of Lilith. I'm unruly, independent and strong in personality and aura. My phsyical appearencee refelcts that too.I've got the tell-tale Lilith hair, which looks wild and untamed reagrdless of what I do to it. I'm in self-possesion of my sexuality and gender image, and feel little obligation to men, my family, or society to breed or get married. I don't see my femininity conforming to societal conventions, and frankly I don't care. I believe femininity is defined by what it is in reality, and not by what society is comfortable with. Even though I'm not a convnetional beauty by any length, I seem to be able to seduce men pretty effortlessly, even men who at first don't find me attractive. I can also easily intimidate the hell out of them (and women too). GlaucusI never said anything about black moon lilith being an asteroid. I even mentioned that it was the lunar apogee and that there is the mean an the osculating lunar apogees. I also posted urls to sites for more information about the black moon lilith. I definitely didn't talk about scary interps. I even talked about good stuff about it too.Canopus program has more practical interps. I notice the first link in the first post did have scary interps.KamillaGlaucusGreat insight and info (as usual )Thank you. I have Lilith in exact conjunction with Moon (Libra , 16.28) Any thoughts on that? PeriAsteroid Lilith in the birth chart may indicate where a person does not fit the cultural stereotype, leading to some kind of exile from the community; Dark Moon Lilith symbolizes the objective thinking approach. The Black Moon point is where we are lured into our more self-centered illusions for the purpose of purging negative desires, thereby leading us to the deeper truth within our hearts, the longings and yearnings of our souls. http://www.mountainastrologer.com/hunter.html I would add that BML is our deepest (often unconscious) fears and illusions; something we can hardly control or cannot control at all; very often it is where the wrong seems so right (positive aspects) and vice versa (negative aspects). GlaucusKamilla,Here is interp from Canopus program about Moon conjunct Black MoonMoon-Black Moon conjunction:A major aspect of the Black Moon to the Moon tends to add depth andstamina to it. The Moon, which by itself can be rather mellow, isreinforced by the qualities of independence and originalityassociated with the Black Moon, which many astrologers associatewith Lilith the rebel, the woman who was created at the same time asAdam, not after him, and who separated from him because she couldnot bear to be subjected to his authority.The Moon and Black Moon are both related to the subconscious andunconscious parts of the psyche. People with this aspect are likelyto be quite in touch with the depth of themselves.Consequently, at times there will be extremely violent emotions -the monsters of the depth are not buried far away, as they are inmost people; they tend to manifest more directly in the person'smind. But on the higher mode, the result of a Black Moon - Moon majoraspect can be an exceptional intuition. In particular, the personcan understand other people and feel what they feel as if they wereinside them. There is also likely to be easy access to clairvoyanceand higher aspects of spiritual Sight.With this aspect, it is likely that the transits of the Black Moonon the native Moon and Black Moon will be felt with great intensity.On the lower mode, they may cause periods of emotional instability.But on the higher mode (if the native has worked on himself/herself)they may be times when great inner insights can be achieved, as wellas remarkable spiritual progress.GlaucusI have Sun conjunct true Black Moon in Scorpio with 23 minutes of arc. Sun-Black Moon conjunction:Being conjunct to the Sun makes the Black Moon extremely powerful.Especially (but not only) in a female chart, a major aspect of BlackMoon to the Sun tends to create a 'Lilith character': strong-willed,stubborn, independent mind and lover of freedom, original,non-conformist, rebellious, passionately disliking routines andenslavement at large. Lilith was the woman who did not need Adam andleft him - not a common thing to do in early biblical times - onereason being that she bluntly refused to lie under him duringlovemaking. There is a profound need to go beyond limitations of all kinds.This, naturally, leads the native to challenge establishment. Attimes, it will create difficulties; a Lilith character does nothesitate to tell her/his boss what she/he thinks of him, and can'tgive a damn about consequences once she/he has made up her mind todo something.The eyes shine, at times defiantly. The personality is sharp, with amarked taste for intensity. This, in Clairvision language,corresponds to violent astrality - venom in large measure! There are strong likes and dislikes, and a tendency to knowimmediately whether one likes someone or not. This may have to do with the profound insights into thepsychological motivations of other people. Being herself/himself sowell in touch with her/his shadow, the native has a fineunderstanding of other people's psyche. A Lilith character is oftensubtle, with a great sense of nuances, and an EXTREME sensitivity. Problems with the father:With this aspect, it is not rare to find that the native had majorproblems with the father (especially in the chart of a female).Either the father was absent, or perceived as absent, or was foughtagainst. There is likely to be some deeply rooted wound in thepsyche, relating to the father, with profound consequences on thewhole organisation of the personality. In symbolical terms this conflict with the father goes far beyondchildhood scenarios. It is the father image, in its widest meaning,which is involved here. Think of Lilith, angry at God for making hersubjected to Adam's authority (and patriarchal establishment atlarge), and lamenting, "How could He [God the Father] do that tome?" It is the same wound that you are carrying. It was so deep that itnever healed. When experienced on its highest level, a major aspect of Black Moonto the Sun can make the native quite psychic: premonitory dreams,intuition, natural affinity with the hidden mysteries of life, andclairvoyance. GlaucusI have Mercury parallel true Black Moon with 15 minutes of arc. parallels are like conjunctions. In declination longitude equivalent chart, I have Mercury conjunct true Black Moon with 1 degree orb.Mercury-Black Moon conjunction:Adds depth to Mercury, and connection between the conscious andsubconscious levels of the mind.Mercury can only gain in depth from its association with the BlackMoon. The Black Moon adds sharpness and wit. Mercury allows anexpression of the profound values associated with the Black Moon(which signifies the unconscious levels of the psyche). Thecombination can bring wisdom, as well as intuition. On a simplelevel, this intuition will result in instant and extremely accurateinsights into other people's emotions - knowing their nature fromthe inside, rather than judging them by their facade. The understanding of other people's psychology also has to do withthe fact that the native's own inner life is quite sophisticated andcomplex. Mercury stands for the conscious mind, Black Moon for thesubconscious and unconscious parts of the psyche. The association ofthe two means that there are more bridges between the differentlevels of the psyche than in other individuals. This will not always be easy to bear. At times, this opencommunication between conscious and unconscious mind will triggerheavy emotions, crises, anxiety or even depression. Still, it is thefoundation for a high degree of self knowledge. With this aspect, you will be well advised to watch the transits(passages) of Black Moon on the natal Mercury and Black Moon. Thesemay be times when profound rearrangements of your thought patternstake place, and therefore golden opportunities to achieve a greatamount of work on yourself. Conversely, the less you know yourself,the more these transits may result in situations of inner crisis.On a higher level, this aspect of Mercury to the Black Moon can helpyou become quite psychic (Clairvision higher mode). ForLilith-Black Moon, a highly metaphysical point in the chart, isplugged directly into your Mercury-mental consciousness. This meansa natural affinity with the hidden mysteries of life, and a greatcapacity to fathom them.I have Venus parallel true Black Moon with 1 minute of arc. In declination longitude equivalent chart, I have Venus conjunct true Black Moon with 5 minutes of arc. This could be serious major influence on my lovelife,relationships,social stuff,and what value.Venus-Black Moon conjunction:Black Moon adds depth and originality to Venus. On one level, the combination can be excellent. Venus has severalwonderful sides, but by itself can sometimes be superficial. Fromthat point of view, it can only benefit from the exacting influenceof Black Moon, and of its need for ideal, absolute and perfection.This can lead to powerful realisations, not only in the field ofarts, but also in several other professional activities - providedthey can be an outlet for your creativity. (Black Moon does enhancethe creative side of Venus. In many cases, it also adds ametaphysical dimension to it.)Because the need for perfection can be extreme, you must make surethat it does not become paralysing (as in the case of people whoprefer to refrain from relationships rather than being with someonewho is not the absolute perfect match, or people who prefer tocreate nothing rather than run the risk of creating somethingimperfect).Venus, planet of desire, can also be taken deep down into theunconscious realms of Black Moon -Lilith. Thus Venus - Black Moonaspects have a number of points in common with Venus - Plutoaspects. At their maximum, they can lead to devouring desires andpassions. They can also cause the native to be magneticallyattracted to dangerous people or situations.In particular, carefully watch who enters your life at the time of areturn of Lilith (transiting Black Moon conjunct to native BlackMoon).The person is likely to move something deep in your unconsciousmind and have a profound impact on your belief system and yourvalues, which could result in significant changes in your life.I have Moon trine true Black Moon Lilith with 2'31 orb. I have Sun trine Moon,and so anything conjunct my Sun trines my Moon.Moon-Black Moon trine:A major aspect of the Black Moon to the Moon tends to add depth andstamina to it. The Moon, which by itself can be rather mellow, isreinforced by the qualities of independence and originalityassociated with the Black Moon, which many astrologers associatewith Lilith the rebel, the woman who was created at the same time asAdam, not after him, and who separated from him because she couldnot bear to be subjected to his authority.The Moon and Black Moon are both related to the subconscious andunconscious parts of the psyche. People with this aspect are likelyto be quite in touch with the depth of themselves.Consequently, at times there will be extremely violent emotions -the monsters of the depth are not buried far away, as they are inmost people; they tend to manifest more directly in the person'smind. But on the higher mode, the result of a Black Moon - Moon majoraspect can be an exceptional intuition. In particular, the personcan understand other people and feel what they feel as if they wereinside them. There is also likely to be easy access to clairvoyanceand higher aspects of spiritual Sight.GlaucusI have true Black Moon Lilith contraparallel Saturn with 54 minutes of arc. Contraparallel is like an opposition. In my declination longitude equivalent chart, I have true Black Moon oppose Saturn with 3'33 orb.Saturn-Black Moon opposition:Aspects between the Black Moon and Saturn are powerful, inparticular because of the affinity of the two objects (in theKabbalah, Lilith is related to the planet Saturn).The Black Moon's aspiration for perfection and the rigorous,exacting nature of Saturn reinforce each other. The combination canresult in an extreme need for purity. If Saturn is strong in thechart, this is an aspect for brown rice and a carefully selecteddiet (not one mouthful in excess), and great cleanliness in general.There is a profound need for inner clarity. This also has to do withthe fact that at times, Saturn can get locked in the shadow side ofthe Black Moon. Unless great inner clarity has been achieved, thismay result in phases of gloomy depression.Watch in particular the periods when the Black Moon transits thenatal Saturn and Black Moon. These are potential times of crisis. Ifunprepared, their intensity may take you by surprise. The more youknow yourself and have explored the depth of your unconscious mind,the more these times of transits are likely to bring realisationsand positive change in your life rather than depression.On the higher mode, both the Black Moon and Saturn are potentiallyvery wise. They both have depth and reinforce each other inintensity. Combined with Saturn's inherent structuring power, thesharpness of Black Moon can flourish in intelligence and wit. Theresult is a N.B.Y. (Not Born Yesterday) person who cannot be fooledby appearances and knows how to respond to all situations.I have true Black Moon parallel Neptune with 48 minutes of arc. In declination longitude equivalent chart, I have true Black Moon conjunct Neptune with 3'12 orbNeptune-Black Moon conjunction:An aspect which can strongly reinforce the mystical nature ofNeptune, and add metaphysical dimension to its inspiration. Thecombination can be highly prophetic.But with Neptune, things always run the risks of remaining blurry -especially knowing that Black Moon relates to the depths of theunconscious. It is only when someone has done the inner work whichallows them to realise the spiritual potential of Neptune that thesupport of this aspect to Black Moon can be experienced.If fully developed, this aspect can take cosmic proportions. Thinkfor instance of the immense vision of Rudolf Steiner (conjunctionMercury - Black Moon - Neptune in the 5th house), or other famousteachers who had a Black Moon - Neptune opposition, such as MaxHeindel or Paramahansa Yogananda. The more Neptune is aspected to other planets in the chart, the morethis aspect will be significant, adding a Black Moon touch to thepersonality: sharpness, inner depth and need for perfection (whichcombines with Neptune's idealism).CrabplanetI have Lilith in conjunction with Uranus, sextile Mercury, square Venus, sextile Neptune, trine Saturn...Does anybody know what it means?geminstoneWow! Thanks Glaucus! My husband has Lilith conjunct Moon. I've read that, in a man's chart, this conjunction indicates a man who seeks a partner who, like him, wants equality and fairness...( from HOROSCOPESCHAT http://groups.msn.com/HOROSCOPESCHAT/lilithchiron.msnw ) ...just so happens, he and I both have Moon at 26Pisces/4th house, natally... Are the conjunct/opposition, (parallel/contrap), aspects only figured in your program Glaucus? I have Lilith at 22Aries, which makes it exactly inconjunct my 22Scorpio Asc, which is also my husband's North Node. Other than that, my Chiron/Eros at 29Aries would seem to somehow contact Lilith at least in life but, as I understand it, the orb is too wide for it to be considered conjunct. Wonderful insight and great string! Thanks All ~ geminstone GlaucusI always look at declinations when I check out charts. Parallels and contraparallels are declination aspects. They are latitude coordinates involving celestial equator.When planet ares within 1 degree orb and same side on celestial equator,they are in parallel.when planets are within 1 degree orb and opposite sides of the celestial equator,they are in contraparallel.parallel is like a conjunctioncontraparallel is like an oppositionyou can find check declinations at astro.commany astrology programs calculate declinationsI like to view the chart as multidimensional,and that is one of the reasons that I use the declinations. I put more emphasis on declinations if parallel appear as conjunction and contraparallel appear as opposition in declination longitude equivalent charts. I don't look at other aspects in declination longitude equivalent charts because it's just adding more stuff. I am only looking for conjunctions and oppositions to confirm the parallels and contraparallels in the regular chart.InanaWhat about Lilith in sinastry?lovegoblinyeah-what is your lillith is oppositeyour so's sun really tight?SalisaWhat would Lilith oppostion Pluto mean? Its within an 1 degree orb.astro junkie There was a time a few months ago, when I was determined to crack open this CONFUSING mystery regarding the Lilith's. Especially since like you, I asked and asked all over the Internet, and no one seemed to know.BUT it is more than likely that the information you receive is INACCURATE at that. There is a lot of confusion and misinformation out there, even from professional astrologists.I've spent hours and hours and hours researching this, and the following is by far the most well-researched and accurate explanation I found. ESPECIALLY THE PART ABOUT THE TRUE VS. MEAN!!! This is key:::"Lilith- by Sue SimmonsThere are 3 astrological points with the name Lilith: asteroid Lilith, Black Moon Lilith and Dark Moon Lilith. They are all called Lilith because the way you interpret them in a chart is related to the Lilith story. Probably the earliest version of Lilith is from Mesopotamia in the 13 -15th centuries BC where she was the Goddess of Death in the form of an owl. She was called Lilith because it means "screech owl". The version of Lilith we know today is as the first wife of Adam, before Eve, although she is not mentioned in the Bible or in ancient Hebrew religious writings. This version seems to come from a medieval writing that purports to be part of Hebrew writings but is not. The writer probably took the older legend and Christianized it by making it part of a Bible story. Lilith became the woman from hell, the anti-female. There are many versions and interpretations of her story. As the first wife of Adam she refused to be subordinate to him. She refused to lie beneath him in sexual relations. She wanted to lie side by side or on top. When he tried to force her she used her powers to fly away. This part of her story has interested many women today . They like to think of Lilith as a feminist heroine, saying she was courageous and asserting her equality. However, in the original story she was more a symbol of the psychologically damaged. If you interpret the Liliths in a chart as heroic or admirable it will not be accurate. The Liliths in your chart operate as places where you are having trouble, where you don't fit in with the norm. After Adam refused to have her as his wife, she ran off and mated with many demons, which was strictly against God's will. God sent 3 angels to her to get her to stop but she didn't obey so He started killing her children at the rate of 100 per day. She went mad with grief and started killing other people's children. Painful issues surrounding children, birth, unsuitable sexual partners and parts of your life where you just can't function like others do are Lilith issues. Asteroid LilithThe glyph for asteroid Lilith is a straight horizontal line with 4 small vertical lines sticking up from it , sort of like an upturned rake head, and on the right below the horizontal line is a very small mark like a capital L or V. Some say it is an upturned hand which could be either rejecting or expecting something different. It takes about 5 years for Lilith to travel through all 12 signs, since it does retrograde a lot. It orbits the Sun in the asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter. The asteroid Lilith has to do with all aspects of difficult sexual relationships. Black Moon LilithBlack Moon Lilith is the astrologer's term for the lunar apogee. Since the Moon has an elliptical (oval) orbit and a wobbly one at that, the distance the Moon is from the Earth varies. The lunar apogee is the mathematical point in the sky where the Moon is farthest from the Earth. The reason this point is called Lilith is because in the Lilith story she was acting out the difficult (distant) part of the Moon, in murderous rage, vindictiveness, and insanity. The glyph for Black Moon Lilith is a black crescent pointing east, similar to a 3rd quarter Moon, but with a cross underneath. Black Moon Lilith can be calculated as mean or true, similar to the way the Moon's nodes are calculated as mean or true. But in the case of the Black Moon there can be as much as 30 degrees difference between the mean and true so it is possible for them to be in different signs or houses. Deciding which to use is easier if you look at charts of people you know where the mean and true are in different signs and houses. The true is the more accurate placement but an ephemeris for it has only been available for about 10 years so not as much work has been done using it. The ephemeris for the mean has been available for about 100 years and astrologers in Europe have been using it almost that long. That's why you see the mean used more in articles and books.The mean moves about 39 degrees per year or about 3 deg 8 min per month and does not retrograde. The true Black Moon retrogrades a lot and can move anywhere from 9 deg to well over 70 deg per year. It also can move up to 4 deg per day or stay at the same degree for several days so it is important to get an accurate placement for the true. An ephemeris in a book is fine for mean but not for the true. You can get the true in Win*Star software, Halloran software, or Riyal freeware or you can use the Swiss Ephemeris online to get both true and mean. It takes about 9 years for the mean or true to pass through all 12 signs. Dark Moon LilithUnlike Black Moon Lilith, Dark Moon Lilith is a real body in the sky, a second Moon to the Earth that doesn't reflect light, hence the name Dark Moon. The glyph for Dark Moon Lilith is a zero with a forward slash running diagonally through it. There is some controversy over whether it is really there since it can only be seen as a spot moving across the Sun. However, there have been sightings since the 1600's as detailed in Delphine Jay's book, Interpreting Lilith, pg. 1-6. Dr. Georges Waltemath, an astronomer, documented it in 1898 and came up with calculations which gave it an orbit of 119 days around the Earth. The astrologer Sepharial used the Waltemath calculations to come up with an ephemeris but he made errors which caused a difference of anywhere from about 2 to over 40 degrees. Delphine Jay, Ivy Goldstein-Jacobson, Mae Ludlum-Wilson and others copied Sepharial's calculations. The original Waltemath calculations can be found in Solar Fire software or Riyal freeware. Many astrologers use the Sepharial calculations with success, but the Waltemath calculations are more accurate. Dark Moon Lilith can be interpreted similarly to the other Liliths. Delphine Jay says Dark Moon Lilith is a place where you must operate impersonally because operating personally there will never be successful. Sue Simmons"------------------ ... it's better to light a candle than curse the darkness
Whats your Lilith, what house does it occupy, and tell of few aspects of any. Here's my example:
sagittarius lilith in the 4th house, i have a moon square lilith.
------------------Virgo Rising, Sagittarius Sun, Pisces Moon
We know the mythology behind Lilith. Some believed that she was the first wife of Adam. She refused to be under Adam. She left. She supposedly came to men in their sleep and tempted them. Some believe that she was a demoness in Jewish myths.
In the chart, I feel that Black Moon Lilith has to do with equal rights, women's rights, liberalism, rebelliousness,feminine power andpassion
Because it is the lunar apogee, it has to do with lunar qualities too.Therefore, I would add intuition,sensitivity,instincts,subtleties,unconscious
I have Sun conjunct true position of Black Moon Lillith in Scorpio with 23 minutes of arc. I feel that Black Moon Lillith adds to the sexuality,passion,intensity,sensitivity,intuition,subtleness of my Sun in Scorpio. With my Sun-Black Moon Lillith in 2nd house, I have myown values and don't care adopting other's values. I am better off self employed because I wouldn't want to make money for other people. Of course, I have unaspected Uranus in 2nd trine Midheaven.
I have a strong respect for the strength of females. I believe that females can do things just as good as males can and even better. Igrew up believing that females were not the weaker sex. My mother was a very strong woman. She saved herself and me from a schizophrenic guy that shot her when I was 3 years old. She just lost her temper, andher anger and rage empowered her. She wasintense,passionate,erratic,stubborn,independent. When she was at her worst, she was dangerous,crazy,manipulative,and deceptive. She took her feminine status for granted. She would hit me, and she knew that I wouldn't do anything because she's a woman. My mother has Moon in Scorpio in 5th square Pluto and trine Uranus in Cancer in 2nd. That indicates the traits that I have mentioned. I always heard my mother tell my stepfather "You don't tell me what to do." It was a regular thing for her to say. She has confronted him with a knife more than once. My mom was a very attractive-looking woman. People always tell me that my mom is very pretty. My mother had a magnetism about her. Her eyes are intense. She doesn't have Scorpio Rising nor Pluto aspect her ascendant. She has Cancer Ascendant, and her ascendant ruler is in Scorpio square her Moon.
Being her son, I do have her traits. However, I don't do those things that I mentioned. I did butt heads with my parents. I rebelled bymouthing off to them because I felt they were being tyrants,and I told them so. I expressed my rage and anger towards them. I did the same thing when I was in the navy. I did what I was told, but I spoke out against things that weren't right. I have been a hothead. I seem to exude a strong feminine energy which gets me mistaken for being gay.
I have had numerous dreams of succubi. The dreams seem so real. They took place when I was in my bed.
This is how I experience my Black Moon Lillith energy. It's not going to be the same for everybody because of different sign and house placements as well as aspects.
Because Black Moon Lilith is an abstract point like the ascendant and midheaven, I believe that it can be used in midpoints. Ascendant and Midheaven are used in Cosmobiology and Uranian Astrology. UranianAstrology does use the transneptunian points. I have started studying Uranian Astrology,and I find that the transneptunian points can beinsightful. I found out that my father had Sun = Hades/Poseidon like me, and he was highly superstitious like me. He strongly believed in the metaphysical like me. He was a Creole man from New Orleans,and hebelieved in New Orleans Voodoo. He was raised by a grandmother who left snakes on the porch to ward off negative spirits. My father was amystery to me because I never knew him. He was out of my life when I was 1 year old. That can also be reflected by my Sun conj True Black Moon Lilith. My father seemed to have the traits of the Black Moon Lilith,and he was absent from my life.
P.S. I like Juan Revilla's view about Black Moon Lillith. He evensays that it relates to magick and occult. I like Hunter's view aboutBlack Moon Lillith too.
I also have true Black Moon Lilith parallel Mercury with 15 minutes of arc, parallel Venus with 1 minute of arc,parallel Neptune with 48 minutes of arc,and contraparallel Saturn with 54 minutes of arc.
parallels are like conjunctionscontraparallels are like oppositionsthose are declination(latitude coordinations involving celestial equator) aspects wh
btw....Winona Ryder has Sun conjunct true Black Moon Lillith inScorpio too. She's my birthdate twin.
Raymond
October 29, 19713:20 AMSan Francisco, CA
astrological stuff about the black moon/dark moon lilith http://www.expreso.co.cr/centaurs/blackmoon/lilith.html http://www.aquamoonlight.co.uk/lilith-dark-moon.html http://www.mountainastrologer.com/hunter.html http://astrologer.ru/book/dark_moon/index.html.en
Do you think that the person got the Lilith idea from the Iranian female demoness called Druj?She seems to have Lilith like traits. Ifound out that Druj is an ancient Iranian female demon. I read that she causes much evil with horny men. She is the eternal opponent of Asha Vahista. She is called Drug or Drauga. I read that she was one ofthe Daeva(class of demons in Zoroastrianism), and Druj is the female personification of wickedness.
Russian astrologers call the true Black Moon(true lunar apogee) Druj.I have Sun conj true Black Moon myself. I feel that it can be about inner demons like psychological issues,intuition,unconventional,strong sensitivity,primal urges,sexuality,and supernatural things.
http://www.astrologer.ru:8004/book/dark_moon/index.html.en http://www.enctype.de/Daemonen/1inhaldru.htm http://www.deliriumsrealm.com/delirium/mythology/daevas.asp http://www.mc.maricopa.edu/dept/d10/asb/anthro2003/legacy/ur/ugs/zoroa ster.html
neptune 5
I don't give into scary interps of Lilith, probably because I'm very comfortable with her. Lilith is very srtong in my chart - both Lilith and BM Lilith are conjunct in the 1H, in the early degrees of Libra. They lay precisely between my Pluto rising and my Uranus singleton. They aspect my Venus-Saturn conjunction, Jupiter-Neptune conjunction, Vesta and few other asteriods. They're a busy pair in my chart.
I see myself as manifesting both the positive and negative sides of Lilith. I'm unruly, independent and strong in personality and aura. My phsyical appearencee refelcts that too.I've got the tell-tale Lilith hair, which looks wild and untamed reagrdless of what I do to it. I'm in self-possesion of my sexuality and gender image, and feel little obligation to men, my family, or society to breed or get married. I don't see my femininity conforming to societal conventions, and frankly I don't care. I believe femininity is defined by what it is in reality, and not by what society is comfortable with. Even though I'm not a convnetional beauty by any length, I seem to be able to seduce men pretty effortlessly, even men who at first don't find me attractive. I can also easily intimidate the hell out of them (and women too).
Canopus program has more practical interps. I notice the first link in the first post did have scary interps.
Great insight and info (as usual )Thank you. I have Lilith in exact conjunction with Moon (Libra , 16.28) Any thoughts on that?
Dark Moon Lilith symbolizes the objective thinking approach.
The Black Moon point is where we are lured into our more self-centered illusions for the purpose of purging negative desires, thereby leading us to the deeper truth within our hearts, the longings and yearnings of our souls. http://www.mountainastrologer.com/hunter.html
I would add that BML is our deepest (often unconscious) fears and illusions; something we can hardly control or cannot control at all; very often it is where the wrong seems so right (positive aspects) and vice versa (negative aspects).
Here is interp from Canopus program about Moon conjunct Black Moon
Moon-Black Moon conjunction:A major aspect of the Black Moon to the Moon tends to add depth andstamina to it. The Moon, which by itself can be rather mellow, isreinforced by the qualities of independence and originalityassociated with the Black Moon, which many astrologers associatewith Lilith the rebel, the woman who was created at the same time asAdam, not after him, and who separated from him because she couldnot bear to be subjected to his authority.The Moon and Black Moon are both related to the subconscious andunconscious parts of the psyche. People with this aspect are likelyto be quite in touch with the depth of themselves.Consequently, at times there will be extremely violent emotions -the monsters of the depth are not buried far away, as they are inmost people; they tend to manifest more directly in the person'smind. But on the higher mode, the result of a Black Moon - Moon majoraspect can be an exceptional intuition. In particular, the personcan understand other people and feel what they feel as if they wereinside them. There is also likely to be easy access to clairvoyanceand higher aspects of spiritual Sight.With this aspect, it is likely that the transits of the Black Moonon the native Moon and Black Moon will be felt with great intensity.On the lower mode, they may cause periods of emotional instability.But on the higher mode (if the native has worked on himself/herself)they may be times when great inner insights can be achieved, as wellas remarkable spiritual progress.
Sun-Black Moon conjunction:Being conjunct to the Sun makes the Black Moon extremely powerful.Especially (but not only) in a female chart, a major aspect of BlackMoon to the Sun tends to create a 'Lilith character': strong-willed,stubborn, independent mind and lover of freedom, original,non-conformist, rebellious, passionately disliking routines andenslavement at large. Lilith was the woman who did not need Adam andleft him - not a common thing to do in early biblical times - onereason being that she bluntly refused to lie under him duringlovemaking. There is a profound need to go beyond limitations of all kinds.This, naturally, leads the native to challenge establishment. Attimes, it will create difficulties; a Lilith character does nothesitate to tell her/his boss what she/he thinks of him, and can'tgive a damn about consequences once she/he has made up her mind todo something.The eyes shine, at times defiantly. The personality is sharp, with amarked taste for intensity. This, in Clairvision language,corresponds to violent astrality - venom in large measure! There are strong likes and dislikes, and a tendency to knowimmediately whether one likes someone or not. This may have to do with the profound insights into thepsychological motivations of other people. Being herself/himself sowell in touch with her/his shadow, the native has a fineunderstanding of other people's psyche. A Lilith character is oftensubtle, with a great sense of nuances, and an EXTREME sensitivity. Problems with the father:With this aspect, it is not rare to find that the native had majorproblems with the father (especially in the chart of a female).Either the father was absent, or perceived as absent, or was foughtagainst. There is likely to be some deeply rooted wound in thepsyche, relating to the father, with profound consequences on thewhole organisation of the personality. In symbolical terms this conflict with the father goes far beyondchildhood scenarios. It is the father image, in its widest meaning,which is involved here. Think of Lilith, angry at God for making hersubjected to Adam's authority (and patriarchal establishment atlarge), and lamenting, "How could He [God the Father] do that tome?" It is the same wound that you are carrying. It was so deep that itnever healed. When experienced on its highest level, a major aspect of Black Moonto the Sun can make the native quite psychic: premonitory dreams,intuition, natural affinity with the hidden mysteries of life, andclairvoyance.
Mercury-Black Moon conjunction:Adds depth to Mercury, and connection between the conscious andsubconscious levels of the mind.Mercury can only gain in depth from its association with the BlackMoon. The Black Moon adds sharpness and wit. Mercury allows anexpression of the profound values associated with the Black Moon(which signifies the unconscious levels of the psyche). Thecombination can bring wisdom, as well as intuition. On a simplelevel, this intuition will result in instant and extremely accurateinsights into other people's emotions - knowing their nature fromthe inside, rather than judging them by their facade. The understanding of other people's psychology also has to do withthe fact that the native's own inner life is quite sophisticated andcomplex. Mercury stands for the conscious mind, Black Moon for thesubconscious and unconscious parts of the psyche. The association ofthe two means that there are more bridges between the differentlevels of the psyche than in other individuals. This will not always be easy to bear. At times, this opencommunication between conscious and unconscious mind will triggerheavy emotions, crises, anxiety or even depression. Still, it is thefoundation for a high degree of self knowledge. With this aspect, you will be well advised to watch the transits(passages) of Black Moon on the natal Mercury and Black Moon. Thesemay be times when profound rearrangements of your thought patternstake place, and therefore golden opportunities to achieve a greatamount of work on yourself. Conversely, the less you know yourself,the more these transits may result in situations of inner crisis.On a higher level, this aspect of Mercury to the Black Moon can helpyou become quite psychic (Clairvision higher mode). ForLilith-Black Moon, a highly metaphysical point in the chart, isplugged directly into your Mercury-mental consciousness. This meansa natural affinity with the hidden mysteries of life, and a greatcapacity to fathom them.
I have Venus parallel true Black Moon with 1 minute of arc. In declination longitude equivalent chart, I have Venus conjunct true Black Moon with 5 minutes of arc. This could be serious major influence on my lovelife,relationships,social stuff,and what value.
Venus-Black Moon conjunction:Black Moon adds depth and originality to Venus. On one level, the combination can be excellent. Venus has severalwonderful sides, but by itself can sometimes be superficial. Fromthat point of view, it can only benefit from the exacting influenceof Black Moon, and of its need for ideal, absolute and perfection.This can lead to powerful realisations, not only in the field ofarts, but also in several other professional activities - providedthey can be an outlet for your creativity. (Black Moon does enhancethe creative side of Venus. In many cases, it also adds ametaphysical dimension to it.)Because the need for perfection can be extreme, you must make surethat it does not become paralysing (as in the case of people whoprefer to refrain from relationships rather than being with someonewho is not the absolute perfect match, or people who prefer tocreate nothing rather than run the risk of creating somethingimperfect).Venus, planet of desire, can also be taken deep down into theunconscious realms of Black Moon -Lilith. Thus Venus - Black Moonaspects have a number of points in common with Venus - Plutoaspects. At their maximum, they can lead to devouring desires andpassions. They can also cause the native to be magneticallyattracted to dangerous people or situations.In particular, carefully watch who enters your life at the time of areturn of Lilith (transiting Black Moon conjunct to native BlackMoon).The person is likely to move something deep in your unconsciousmind and have a profound impact on your belief system and yourvalues, which could result in significant changes in your life.
I have Moon trine true Black Moon Lilith with 2'31 orb. I have Sun trine Moon,and so anything conjunct my Sun trines my Moon.
Moon-Black Moon trine:A major aspect of the Black Moon to the Moon tends to add depth andstamina to it. The Moon, which by itself can be rather mellow, isreinforced by the qualities of independence and originalityassociated with the Black Moon, which many astrologers associatewith Lilith the rebel, the woman who was created at the same time asAdam, not after him, and who separated from him because she couldnot bear to be subjected to his authority.The Moon and Black Moon are both related to the subconscious andunconscious parts of the psyche. People with this aspect are likelyto be quite in touch with the depth of themselves.Consequently, at times there will be extremely violent emotions -the monsters of the depth are not buried far away, as they are inmost people; they tend to manifest more directly in the person'smind. But on the higher mode, the result of a Black Moon - Moon majoraspect can be an exceptional intuition. In particular, the personcan understand other people and feel what they feel as if they wereinside them. There is also likely to be easy access to clairvoyanceand higher aspects of spiritual Sight.
Saturn-Black Moon opposition:Aspects between the Black Moon and Saturn are powerful, inparticular because of the affinity of the two objects (in theKabbalah, Lilith is related to the planet Saturn).The Black Moon's aspiration for perfection and the rigorous,exacting nature of Saturn reinforce each other. The combination canresult in an extreme need for purity. If Saturn is strong in thechart, this is an aspect for brown rice and a carefully selecteddiet (not one mouthful in excess), and great cleanliness in general.There is a profound need for inner clarity. This also has to do withthe fact that at times, Saturn can get locked in the shadow side ofthe Black Moon. Unless great inner clarity has been achieved, thismay result in phases of gloomy depression.Watch in particular the periods when the Black Moon transits thenatal Saturn and Black Moon. These are potential times of crisis. Ifunprepared, their intensity may take you by surprise. The more youknow yourself and have explored the depth of your unconscious mind,the more these times of transits are likely to bring realisationsand positive change in your life rather than depression.On the higher mode, both the Black Moon and Saturn are potentiallyvery wise. They both have depth and reinforce each other inintensity. Combined with Saturn's inherent structuring power, thesharpness of Black Moon can flourish in intelligence and wit. Theresult is a N.B.Y. (Not Born Yesterday) person who cannot be fooledby appearances and knows how to respond to all situations.
I have true Black Moon parallel Neptune with 48 minutes of arc. In declination longitude equivalent chart, I have true Black Moon conjunct Neptune with 3'12 orb
Neptune-Black Moon conjunction:An aspect which can strongly reinforce the mystical nature ofNeptune, and add metaphysical dimension to its inspiration. Thecombination can be highly prophetic.But with Neptune, things always run the risks of remaining blurry -especially knowing that Black Moon relates to the depths of theunconscious. It is only when someone has done the inner work whichallows them to realise the spiritual potential of Neptune that thesupport of this aspect to Black Moon can be experienced.If fully developed, this aspect can take cosmic proportions. Thinkfor instance of the immense vision of Rudolf Steiner (conjunctionMercury - Black Moon - Neptune in the 5th house), or other famousteachers who had a Black Moon - Neptune opposition, such as MaxHeindel or Paramahansa Yogananda. The more Neptune is aspected to other planets in the chart, the morethis aspect will be significant, adding a Black Moon touch to thepersonality: sharpness, inner depth and need for perfection (whichcombines with Neptune's idealism).
Wonderful insight and great string! Thanks All
~ geminstone
When planet ares within 1 degree orb and same side on celestial equator,they are in parallel.
when planets are within 1 degree orb and opposite sides of the celestial equator,they are in contraparallel.
parallel is like a conjunctioncontraparallel is like an opposition
you can find check declinations at astro.com
many astrology programs calculate declinations
I like to view the chart as multidimensional,and that is one of the reasons that I use the declinations.
I put more emphasis on declinations if parallel appear as conjunction and contraparallel appear as opposition in declination longitude equivalent charts.
I don't look at other aspects in declination longitude equivalent charts because it's just adding more stuff. I am only looking for conjunctions and oppositions to confirm the parallels and contraparallels in the regular chart.
There was a time a few months ago, when I was determined to crack open this CONFUSING mystery regarding the Lilith's. Especially since like you, I asked and asked all over the Internet, and no one seemed to know.
BUT it is more than likely that the information you receive is INACCURATE at that. There is a lot of confusion and misinformation out there, even from professional astrologists.
I've spent hours and hours and hours researching this, and the following is by far the most well-researched and accurate explanation I found. ESPECIALLY THE PART ABOUT THE TRUE VS. MEAN!!! This is key:::
"Lilith
- by Sue Simmons
There are 3 astrological points with the name Lilith: asteroid Lilith, Black Moon Lilith and Dark Moon Lilith. They are all called Lilith because the way you interpret them in a chart is related to the Lilith story.
Probably the earliest version of Lilith is from Mesopotamia in the 13 -15th centuries BC where she was the Goddess of Death in the form of an owl. She was called Lilith because it means "screech owl". The version of Lilith we know today is as the first wife of Adam, before Eve, although she is not mentioned in the Bible or in ancient Hebrew religious writings. This version seems to come from a medieval writing that purports to be part of Hebrew writings but is not. The writer probably took the older legend and Christianized it by making it part of a Bible story. Lilith became the woman from hell, the anti-female.
There are many versions and interpretations of her story. As the first wife of Adam she refused to be subordinate to him. She refused to lie beneath him in sexual relations. She wanted to lie side by side or on top. When he tried to force her she used her powers to fly away. This part of her story has interested many women today . They like to think of Lilith as a feminist heroine, saying she was courageous and asserting her equality. However, in the original story she was more a symbol of the psychologically damaged. If you interpret the Liliths in a chart as heroic or admirable it will not be accurate. The Liliths in your chart operate as places where you are having trouble, where you don't fit in with the norm.
After Adam refused to have her as his wife, she ran off and mated with many demons, which was strictly against God's will. God sent 3 angels to her to get her to stop but she didn't obey so He started killing her children at the rate of 100 per day. She went mad with grief and started killing other people's children. Painful issues surrounding children, birth, unsuitable sexual partners and parts of your life where you just can't function like others do are Lilith issues.
Asteroid Lilith
The glyph for asteroid Lilith is a straight horizontal line with 4 small vertical lines sticking up from it , sort of like an upturned rake head, and on the right below the horizontal line is a very small mark like a capital L or V. Some say it is an upturned hand which could be either rejecting or expecting something different. It takes about 5 years for Lilith to travel through all 12 signs, since it does retrograde a lot. It orbits the Sun in the asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter. The asteroid Lilith has to do with all aspects of difficult sexual relationships.
Black Moon Lilith
Black Moon Lilith is the astrologer's term for the lunar apogee. Since the Moon has an elliptical (oval) orbit and a wobbly one at that, the distance the Moon is from the Earth varies. The lunar apogee is the mathematical point in the sky where the Moon is farthest from the Earth. The reason this point is called Lilith is because in the Lilith story she was acting out the difficult (distant) part of the Moon, in murderous rage, vindictiveness, and insanity. The glyph for Black Moon Lilith is a black crescent pointing east, similar to a 3rd quarter Moon, but with a cross underneath.
Black Moon Lilith can be calculated as mean or true, similar to the way the Moon's nodes are calculated as mean or true. But in the case of the Black Moon there can be as much as 30 degrees difference between the mean and true so it is possible for them to be in different signs or houses. Deciding which to use is easier if you look at charts of people you know where the mean and true are in different signs and houses. The true is the more accurate placement but an ephemeris for it has only been available for about 10 years so not as much work has been done using it. The ephemeris for the mean has been available for about 100 years and astrologers in Europe have been using it almost that long. That's why you see the mean used more in articles and books.
The mean moves about 39 degrees per year or about 3 deg 8 min per month and does not retrograde. The true Black Moon retrogrades a lot and can move anywhere from 9 deg to well over 70 deg per year. It also can move up to 4 deg per day or stay at the same degree for several days so it is important to get an accurate placement for the true. An ephemeris in a book is fine for mean but not for the true. You can get the true in Win*Star software, Halloran software, or Riyal freeware or you can use the Swiss Ephemeris online to get both true and mean. It takes about 9 years for the mean or true to pass through all 12 signs.
Dark Moon Lilith
Unlike Black Moon Lilith, Dark Moon Lilith is a real body in the sky, a second Moon to the Earth that doesn't reflect light, hence the name Dark Moon. The glyph for Dark Moon Lilith is a zero with a forward slash running diagonally through it. There is some controversy over whether it is really there since it can only be seen as a spot moving across the Sun. However, there have been sightings since the 1600's as detailed in Delphine Jay's book, Interpreting Lilith, pg. 1-6. Dr. Georges Waltemath, an astronomer, documented it in 1898 and came up with calculations which gave it an orbit of 119 days around the Earth.
The astrologer Sepharial used the Waltemath calculations to come up with an ephemeris but he made errors which caused a difference of anywhere from about 2 to over 40 degrees. Delphine Jay, Ivy Goldstein-Jacobson, Mae Ludlum-Wilson and others copied Sepharial's calculations. The original Waltemath calculations can be found in Solar Fire software or Riyal freeware. Many astrologers use the Sepharial calculations with success, but the Waltemath calculations are more accurate. Dark Moon Lilith can be interpreted similarly to the other Liliths. Delphine Jay says Dark Moon Lilith is a place where you must operate impersonally because operating personally there will never be successful.
Sue Simmons"
------------------ ... it's better to light a candle than curse the darkness
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