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T O P I C R E V I E WxrâräxHi-I've been wondering if aspects between planets with "wide orbs" should be really taken into account or not in birth charts.Most Astrologers do not. My question is- do u have any aspect(s) in your birth chart with a wide orb (which would usually not be regarded as important) but still feel like it's very present in your character?In my case- I have some, but especially- Moon Opposition Pluto 9º...I feel totally portrayed by it!darkdreamerDid you check, if Moon and Pluto are maybe contraparallel each other? That would certainly strengthen the effect.What about the Moon-Pluto-midpoint; does it activate any of your personal planets or angles?DDheart cakesi have a neptune venus conjunction at 10 degrees that i feel VERY strongly. but perhaps, as you say dark dreamer, it is because of their midpoint: my ascendant! ahhh!! so crazy. how in the world shall i ever escape this one??VintryI have a wide-orb aspect too: Moon/Venus conjunction, 9 degrees separating. And Im not sure it's working as a proper aspect. On and off for me.NeptuneLove i also have a Moon Pluto opposition, the orb is 3 though and Venus conjunct the midpoint teaologistI have Merc conj Mars in Taurus in the 10th with a 9-deg orb. Those two planets make no other aspects in my chart but to each other. I read that since they're in the same sign and are each singly aspected, then the wide orb is allowed.Merc conj Mars is particularly prominent for me. I often have trouble processing info and expressing myself verbally because my thoughts are usu. racing and/or scattered. I read that this overload can cause a stuttering problem, which I have. Uhhhh, I'm generally patient and non-confrontational (Taurus energy)... but when I get heated and feel the need to argue/defend a point, my voice will rise, and I'll tend to run off the mouth. I can get pretty sarcastic/acerbic too. It suprises the hell out of most ppl who witness the change. It surprises me too cos I don't know how strongly I'll come off. Then I'll feel bad about it later.I also have Mars opp Saturn with a 10-deg orb, which I don't feel at all. Maybe 10 is too wide (esp. for an opposition)? darkdreamerHeart cakes,"i have a neptune venus conjunction at 10 degrees that i feel VERY strongly. but perhaps, as you say dark dreamer, it is because of their midpoint: my ascendant"I know how that feels.I have Mars conjunct NEptune with 5° orb, which is still effective on itself, but in my case it feels VERY strong.But then Mars is also parallel Neptune and both are conjunct my ASC, which falls onto the midpoint of Mars-Neptune.DD"xrâräxHi everyone! thank for your replies!- DarkDreamer-Oh! no, I didn't check that!- (but now I did) And I found out that the Midpoint of Moon/Pluto = Leo 3º43My sun is at 29º19 Cancer.So that could be the effect strongly 'experienced'?Teaologist-Regarding your Merc conj Mars do you have another apect like a parallel btw them or midpoint aspect like DarkDreamer says?janeGood tips, DD.You may also want to check out your heliocentric chart. (You can see this chart at astro.com. The "Extended Chart Selection" page has an "Options" section. Change the "Zodiac" selection from geocentric to heliocentric. )In my regular geocentric chart, I have a wide Venus-Pluto square (8º). Since it's wide, I wondered why I felt this aspect or if what I thought I was feeling was actually the effect of other aspects. But turns out in my heliocentric chart, I have a tight Venus-Pluto trine.It's time consuming to construct, but another thing you may want to check out is your dwad chart. In that, I have a Venus-Pluto conjunction.So, you may find that the widely aspecting planets in your regular chart consistently aspect one another in all these other charts too. I also take into consideration the importance of the planets in the chart. In my case, Pluto is my chart ruler & is conjunct my Sun/Moon mp. Venus is my least aspected planet & ruler of my 7th house. So I can understand why I'd feel a wide aspect between those two planets.Lana29865You might want to check some great replies I got to my thread on the same subject: http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/015428.html darkdreamerHi Xraräx,"And I found out that the Midpoint of Moon/Pluto = Leo 3º43My sun is at 29º19 Cancer."Hmm, personally I`d think that is a very wide midpoint-aspect. Usually the orb of midpoint aspects are between 1° - 2°. But if it works, it works. However, i think that you may find some other things, that will confirm that. Have you checked the Draconics? Also, I think that if a planet is making aspects to Moon AND Pluto this planet will draw them into aspect.Maybe your Sun is square your Moon and your Pluto? Which of course would you give a T-square of Sun, Moon and Pluto, and that would explain why you are feeling so Plutonic. Also, I really suggest you check the houses and houserulers for following connections:- Pluto in 4- Moon in 8- Pluto in strong aspect to IC- ruler of 4 in strong aspect to Pluto- ruler of 8 in strong aspect to Moon / IC- ruler of 4 in strong aspect to ruler of 8Those would all be Moon-Pluto-connections, and could emphasize and strengthen that wide interaspect.Jane,"It's time consuming to construct, but another thing you may want to check out is your dwad chart. In that, I have a Venus-Pluto conjunction."That is what I call a pattern, Venus - Pluto on 3 levels; geocentric, heliocentric, Dwads.HOwever, it`s funny that you mentioned the Dwads. Last night I had a dream I was telling some people about astrology, I think I was teaching it or so (oh yes, the pupil dreams of teaching. ), and one of my musicmen was there (A), and I said to him: "Oh did you see? How funny my Siva is conjunct your Kaali. Do you have any idea what that could mean? I never saw that before."Well, strange dream aside, his Kaali is on 2° Aries and my Siva is on 15° Scorpio, so certainly no conjunction.However, after you mentioned the Dwads I checked them for a Siva-Kaali-conjunction.And it happens that my Dwad Siva falls onto 29° Aries, while his Dwad Kaali falls onto 27° Aries (exactly conjunct his natal Moon btw). I dream astrology. I must have it very bad. Again.I know years ago I dreamed of the charts of both my musicmen, and I dreamed that P had a Pisces - Ascendant, while A had an Aries-ascendant. HOwever, I would never have applied those ascendants to them before (I actually preferred a Leo- Ascendant for P and an Aquarius-Ascendant for A), but in an interview some time ago A stated that he was having an Aries-AScendant and P a Pisces-ascendant.So, to repeat myself: I dream astrology. lolWhy is it that all my hobbies turn to obsessions?(Okay, probably the fact that my 5th ruler is square my Pluto and therefor also squares my 12th -house-ruler. What did I say? Yes, I AM obsessed. )DDxrâräxHello Jane!Whoa! great tips! and very interesting what you wrote about your venus-pluto. I've just checked my heliocentric chart- and found out... square between the Moon and Pluto 0º Ohh I don't know how to construct a dwad chart!- does astrowin or any other free programm calculates it?------------------------------Lana29865,Thank you for the link!!-------------------------Hi DD,Woooow- great things you pointed out!- So I'm checking my Draconic AND to my surprised draconic Pluto is CONJUNCT my natal Mercury 1º and opposition my natal ASC 1º !!! Yup, I feel so very Plutonic- sometimes it even scares me . Haha ... You are right also about pluto squaring my sun by 0º. AND- sun is square the moon BUT by 9º.I don't feel that sq btw sun and moon much. Although, it makes total sense what it says about the relationship btw parents.Will check the other stuff you said ! Haha- thank you guys!- It's very refreshing to discover all these connections. darkdreamerHello Xraräx,So, you see you have enough of Pluto-aspects to have an explanation for you feeling very Plutonic.exact Moon-Pluto-square in HelioDraconic Pluto conjunct DSCexact Sun -Pluto-squareWhat else do you need?Regarding the Dwad charts:There is a Dwad table here: http://koti.mbnet.fi/neptunia/essays/dwcalc1.htm DDARIESPINKJust wondering, how can you tell if aspect is applying or separating as I am having difficulty making this out.Azalakshpink ~If you click on "view the additional tables" the aspect grid will have an "S" or an "A" in the boxes showing whether the aspect is separating or applying.....ARIESPINKDo you mean to click the icon for dwad tables. Sorry, I am not sure what to click.janexrarax -"I've just checked my heliocentric chart- and found out... square between the Moon and Pluto 0º"How about that!I don't know of any service that calculates dwad charts for you. If you find one, please let me know, b/c my lazy yet curious ass would like to see the dwad charts for the people I'm closest to.Darkdreamer's link provides the information for calculating the chart by hand. If you don't want to spend the time doing it for the whole chart, you could do it just for your Moon and Pluto to see if they're conjunct.AriesPink - The chart you look at is the one at astro.com. Go to extended charts, view your natal chart, and there's a link at the top left to "view additional tables." The chart at the bottom lists the aspects and includes an "S" for those that are separating and an "A" for those that are applying.etheric distortionfor the sake of argument ... there is no "moon" in a heliocentric chart... There IS an Earth/Moon complex ( which is the Earth and Moon TOGETHER, as percieved from the vantage point of the Sun ( hence the term "Heliocentric")janeGood to know, etheric. Do you know how we are to view the Earth/Moon complex in the helio? Is it, to use the language of a geo chart, like a mixture of Sun and Moon?xrâräxOhhh I've just seen this!, DD and Jane,-thank you very much DD for the link !! Well I guess it will take some time to calculate the dwads and stuff. Oooh, I'm a lazy ass too Jane !! I haven't found any service that calculates it, but if I do, I'll surely tell you.
I've been wondering if aspects between planets with "wide orbs" should be really taken into account or not in birth charts.Most Astrologers do not.
My question is- do u have any aspect(s) in your birth chart with a wide orb (which would usually not be regarded as important) but still feel like it's very present in your character?
In my case- I have some, but especially- Moon Opposition Pluto 9º...I feel totally portrayed by it!
What about the Moon-Pluto-midpoint; does it activate any of your personal planets or angles?
DD
Merc conj Mars is particularly prominent for me. I often have trouble processing info and expressing myself verbally because my thoughts are usu. racing and/or scattered. I read that this overload can cause a stuttering problem, which I have. Uhhhh, I'm generally patient and non-confrontational (Taurus energy)... but when I get heated and feel the need to argue/defend a point, my voice will rise, and I'll tend to run off the mouth. I can get pretty sarcastic/acerbic too. It suprises the hell out of most ppl who witness the change. It surprises me too cos I don't know how strongly I'll come off. Then I'll feel bad about it later.
I also have Mars opp Saturn with a 10-deg orb, which I don't feel at all. Maybe 10 is too wide (esp. for an opposition)?
"i have a neptune venus conjunction at 10 degrees that i feel VERY strongly. but perhaps, as you say dark dreamer, it is because of their midpoint: my ascendant"
I know how that feels.I have Mars conjunct NEptune with 5° orb, which is still effective on itself, but in my case it feels VERY strong.But then Mars is also parallel Neptune and both are conjunct my ASC, which falls onto the midpoint of Mars-Neptune.
"
thank for your replies!-
DarkDreamer-Oh! no, I didn't check that!- (but now I did) And I found out that the Midpoint of Moon/Pluto = Leo 3º43My sun is at 29º19 Cancer.So that could be the effect strongly 'experienced'?
Teaologist-Regarding your Merc conj Mars do you have another apect like a parallel btw them or midpoint aspect like DarkDreamer says?
You may also want to check out your heliocentric chart. (You can see this chart at astro.com. The "Extended Chart Selection" page has an "Options" section. Change the "Zodiac" selection from geocentric to heliocentric. )
In my regular geocentric chart, I have a wide Venus-Pluto square (8º). Since it's wide, I wondered why I felt this aspect or if what I thought I was feeling was actually the effect of other aspects. But turns out in my heliocentric chart, I have a tight Venus-Pluto trine.
It's time consuming to construct, but another thing you may want to check out is your dwad chart. In that, I have a Venus-Pluto conjunction.
So, you may find that the widely aspecting planets in your regular chart consistently aspect one another in all these other charts too.
I also take into consideration the importance of the planets in the chart. In my case, Pluto is my chart ruler & is conjunct my Sun/Moon mp. Venus is my least aspected planet & ruler of my 7th house. So I can understand why I'd feel a wide aspect between those two planets.
"And I found out that the Midpoint of Moon/Pluto = Leo 3º43My sun is at 29º19 Cancer."Hmm, personally I`d think that is a very wide midpoint-aspect. Usually the orb of midpoint aspects are between 1° - 2°. But if it works, it works.
However, i think that you may find some other things, that will confirm that. Have you checked the Draconics? Also, I think that if a planet is making aspects to Moon AND Pluto this planet will draw them into aspect.Maybe your Sun is square your Moon and your Pluto? Which of course would you give a T-square of Sun, Moon and Pluto, and that would explain why you are feeling so Plutonic.
Also, I really suggest you check the houses and houserulers for following connections:- Pluto in 4- Moon in 8- Pluto in strong aspect to IC- ruler of 4 in strong aspect to Pluto- ruler of 8 in strong aspect to Moon / IC- ruler of 4 in strong aspect to ruler of 8
Those would all be Moon-Pluto-connections, and could emphasize and strengthen that wide interaspect.
Jane,
"It's time consuming to construct, but another thing you may want to check out is your dwad chart. In that, I have a Venus-Pluto conjunction."That is what I call a pattern, Venus - Pluto on 3 levels; geocentric, heliocentric, Dwads.
HOwever, it`s funny that you mentioned the Dwads. Last night I had a dream I was telling some people about astrology, I think I was teaching it or so (oh yes, the pupil dreams of teaching. ), and one of my musicmen was there (A), and I said to him: "Oh did you see? How funny my Siva is conjunct your Kaali. Do you have any idea what that could mean? I never saw that before."
Well, strange dream aside, his Kaali is on 2° Aries and my Siva is on 15° Scorpio, so certainly no conjunction.However, after you mentioned the Dwads I checked them for a Siva-Kaali-conjunction.And it happens that my Dwad Siva falls onto 29° Aries, while his Dwad Kaali falls onto 27° Aries (exactly conjunct his natal Moon btw). I dream astrology. I must have it very bad. Again.I know years ago I dreamed of the charts of both my musicmen, and I dreamed that P had a Pisces - Ascendant, while A had an Aries-ascendant. HOwever, I would never have applied those ascendants to them before (I actually preferred a Leo- Ascendant for P and an Aquarius-Ascendant for A), but in an interview some time ago A stated that he was having an Aries-AScendant and P a Pisces-ascendant.So, to repeat myself: I dream astrology. lol
Why is it that all my hobbies turn to obsessions?(Okay, probably the fact that my 5th ruler is square my Pluto and therefor also squares my 12th -house-ruler. What did I say? Yes, I AM obsessed. )
Whoa! great tips! and very interesting what you wrote about your venus-pluto.
I've just checked my heliocentric chart- and found out... square between the Moon and Pluto 0º
Ohh I don't know how to construct a dwad chart!- does astrowin or any other free programm calculates it?
------------------------------
Lana29865,
Thank you for the link!!
-------------------------Hi DD,
Woooow- great things you pointed out!- So I'm checking my Draconic AND to my surprised draconic Pluto is CONJUNCT my natal Mercury 1º and opposition my natal ASC 1º !!!
Yup, I feel so very Plutonic- sometimes it even scares me . Haha ...
You are right also about pluto squaring my sun by 0º. AND- sun is square the moon BUT by 9º.I don't feel that sq btw sun and moon much. Although, it makes total sense what it says about the relationship btw parents.
Will check the other stuff you said !
Haha- thank you guys!- It's very refreshing to discover all these connections.
So, you see you have enough of Pluto-aspects to have an explanation for you feeling very Plutonic.
exact Moon-Pluto-square in HelioDraconic Pluto conjunct DSCexact Sun -Pluto-square
What else do you need?
Regarding the Dwad charts:There is a Dwad table here: http://koti.mbnet.fi/neptunia/essays/dwcalc1.htm
If you click on "view the additional tables" the aspect grid will have an "S" or an "A" in the boxes showing whether the aspect is separating or applying.....
I don't know of any service that calculates dwad charts for you. If you find one, please let me know, b/c my lazy yet curious ass would like to see the dwad charts for the people I'm closest to.
Darkdreamer's link provides the information for calculating the chart by hand. If you don't want to spend the time doing it for the whole chart, you could do it just for your Moon and Pluto to see if they're conjunct.
AriesPink - The chart you look at is the one at astro.com. Go to extended charts, view your natal chart, and there's a link at the top left to "view additional tables." The chart at the bottom lists the aspects and includes an "S" for those that are separating and an "A" for those that are applying.
There IS an Earth/Moon complex ( which is the Earth and Moon TOGETHER, as percieved from the vantage point of the Sun ( hence the term "Heliocentric")
DD and Jane,
-thank you very much DD for the link !! Well I guess it will take some time to calculate the dwads and stuff.
Oooh, I'm a lazy ass too Jane !! I haven't found any service that calculates it, but if I do, I'll surely tell you.
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