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T O P I C R E V I E WBelageThis issue had been on my mind for years. Because I have a very difficult chart. But first a little story. You went to the store and bought something. When you start using that thing, it turns out to be malfunctioning or not satisfying or fulfilling. So you go back to the store to return or exchange the product. The store employees tell you that you cannot do that, that you are stuck with it. What do you do, argue with the store employees? Do you take the product back home and try to make it work nonetheless?Or do you go to the store owner and talk to him?I did not create myself.The planets did not create themselves.The study of the planets and charts has not fixed my life in any way. There is a Supreme Being who created the planets and this entire universe. He is the one I finally realized I needed to talk to. This is the way I am transcending my chart.florenceI feel like if you can realize each part of the chart, the chart drops away. A big piece of this puzzle being the moon for men, sun for women. By realize I mean honor each aspect. Be each aspect until it's story is told. This last bit I'm actually not sure of as I just tried to explain what I mean by realizatdionanonymidarknessI see astrology as a stepping stone. It's a very deep subject, full of informations gathered by observing planetary movements for thousands of years, a lifetime is way too short to study everything. But you don't stay on a stepping stone forever. Personally, I don't perceive any chart as easy or difficult, you make the best use of what you get, like you can use the energy of Mars square Pluto for Yoga, or you can use the same energy to beat up someone, it depends upon you.As for transcending astrology, we gotta find our own ways I guess.girlwiththerainysoul quote:Originally posted by Belage:The study of the planets and charts has not fixed my life in any way. There is a Supreme Being who created the planets and this entire universe. He is the one I finally realized I needed to talk to. This is the way I am transcending my chart.this is a great approach belage!personally I follow astrology from time to time just for the fun of it...also when I feel a little down, at least now I know it's because of some transit or moon in some specific housekind of like when it's before us ladies' monthly cycle when we may feel/act a little crazy lol, and once the period comes, everything feels peaceful again and we're like, oh, so I was acting out because of thatastrology helped me take life a lot easiermany enlightened people and spiritual teachers have been saying for thousands of years that life on earth is like a game which shouldn't be taken too seriously...being too stressed over every little detail, as well overthinking will kill all the funonce death comes at the end for every living thing, we'll all be transferred to better places, God didn't create us to go backwards for millions of years your soul along with God knows how many others has been in another world waiting to come on earth, but back then you had no worries, because unborn souls know deeply that they're safe and sound under God's protection..once it's our turn to come on Earth, to see all the beauty and art, so that in this way we get to know him, and feel "love", the essence of the universe, often we forget the point, and some even start pretending no God ever existedthey get caught up in the game, start taking life too seriously, often because they refuse to believe that there's an endless life after this short one, and think that a good 70-80 years is all they get, so they give it all they have and thus make Earth a little hell for othersthe universe is perfect, it's purely mathematics; mathematics is art, you are art, a square isn't a flaw, it's just different from a trineone day in our lives, everyone comes to appreciate what they already have and will start start enjoying life as it isthat's why 50-60 yr olds are often happier than younger people...after seeing the good and the bad, they understand that life is perfect, and beautiful just the way it is, because God is always with us in our heartsthat's why sufis refuse to love anyone but God, they believe that the human heart belongs to no one but God himself who has created itBelage^^^ That was beautifully said, girlwiththerainysoul. And yes, I am finding myself to be happier and less obsessive, less anxious about adverse movements of planets since I have stopped checking them altogether. I sense that since I have experienced a few technical breakdowns and lost a few things, that mercury must be retro or soon going retro right now, but I am not going to check it to see if it's true. Belage quote:Originally posted by florence:I feel like if you can realize each part of the chart, the chart drops away. A big piece of this puzzle being the moon for men, sun for women. By realize I mean honor each aspect. Be each aspect until it's story is told. This last bit I'm actually not sure of as I just tried to explain what I mean by realizatdionInteresting point of view. Thank you for your input. Belage quote:Originally posted by anonymidarkness:I see astrology as a stepping stone. It's a very deep subject, full of informations gathered by observing planetary movements for thousands of years, a lifetime is way too short to study everything. But you don't stay on a stepping stone forever. Personally, I don't perceive any chart as easy or difficult, you make the best use of what you get, like you can use the energy of Mars square Pluto for Yoga, or you can use the same energy to beat up someone, it depends upon you.As for transcending astrology, we gotta find our own ways I guess.On the subject of difficult vs easy charts, you may be right. it can be a matter of perspective. Until recently, I had what most consider a difficult chart. Jupiter square Saturn. Saturn in 8th house. Venus in its fall. Stellium in 7th with Venus combust. Sun and Venus square the nodes. But after a lot of struggles, I am finding myself at one of the most happiest time of my life, when I finally gave up trying to fix my life through using the planets and just giving it all to God. Accepting what is. This new spirituality could be expxlained by Neptune approaching my ascendant. But if my life had not been unfixable, I would have never given up trying to control things and giving it all to God. and feelign so free as a result. So my difficult chart turned out to be a blessing.Contrasting this with an easy chart. I know someone who mostly trines in his chart. I mean a VERY EASY CHART. with stellium in 7th making all kinds of easy aspects with Jupiter and Saturn.This person happens to be a severely autistic man who needs people to do everything for him, including wiping his butts. He has someone tending to him at all time. So much for the benefits of an "easy" chart. SulkyarcherYou still have free will.Like take a trine placement. You can be a lazy slob who sits at home and eats chips, and watches Games Of Thrones all day, or.......you can use your trine to build up your self confidence and create great art!girlwiththerainysoul quote:Originally posted by Belage: OBut if my life had not been unfixable, I would have never given up trying to control things and giving it all to God. and feelign so free as a result. So my difficult chart turned out to be a blessing.beautifully said, and I couldn't agree more!I hope you continue to have an amazing journey on this newfound spirituality Kannon McAfeeBelage, this is a topic I have spoken of, which I understand is difficult for some to accept. Congratulations on breaking through to something beyond notions of astrological 'law'. While I cannot define for anyone else how this functions, I can give my experience and perceptions. It is important we understand balance and the need for it in all areas. So when we look at factors in the birth chart we understand that not only are there benefits there, but we can sense when we are stuck in a lesson we've already learned. That is where I was years ago with Moon in Capricorn. I used the astrological language to communicate to the universe how I wanted to change, and did. However, it is important to understand changing one's personality takes years -- decades even. While it may be done in spirit, there is still a learning curve in getting to the place we want to be.Yet I do not hold a notion of transcending the entirety of astrology. As has been taught in India by yogis the 'pull' of the planets upon us can be neutralized, but the only way I believe any of us can ever dream of transcending astrology in its entirety is to achieve the Mastery of Love. Love is the fulfillment of the law. Astrology is an inter-dimensional dynamic that mediates our soul growth and evolution. It cannot be dropped away in an 'as if' of its non-existence. There is order and purpose in the universe.One of the most difficult concepts for some in all this is that we can choose our birth charts, and in some sense all of us do every time. I don't necessarily mean that each of the particulars were contemplated before incarnating in an astrologically focused decision. I mean that astrology is part of nature and when we move by choice through the openings between dimensions that is a choice that includes all its implied choices and consequences. There is a very deep and subtle principle in Zen, the principle of non-grasping which relates to this. We often seem to think choice (exercise of free will) is defined by the sequence of what we see/desire and the reach for it. But in grasping at anything we enact expectations attached to that chosen object/person/etc. Synchronicity experienced through a mind guided by higher spiritual ideals releases us from any supposed law to see it as part of larger pattern and purpose. I much prefer this to notions of astrology acting upon us as if from the direction of some higher power that at best is doing it 'for our own good.' No we do it from varying places of soul growth and varying points in karmic progress.If something in the birth chart no longer serves you, because you've learned its lesson or it is now standing in the way of your further growth ... you can change it.------------------The Declinations GuyRising Sign Descriptions♈ ♉ ♊ ♋ ♌ ♍ ♎ ♏ ♐ ♑ ♒ ♓girlwiththerainysoul quote:Originally posted by florence:I feel like if you can realize each part of the chart, the chart drops away. A big piece of this puzzle being the moon for men, sun for women. By realize I mean honor each aspect. Be each aspect until it's story is told. This last bit I'm actually not sure of as I just tried to explain what I mean by realizatdionI agree with you, we are a mixture of all the points and planets in our charts. after hanging out for quite some time with this man who has his sun opposed to my sun, and trine my moon, I realized that I came to know a lot more about who I was. turns out his sun opposing my sun was what I needed to get a firmer grasp on my sun as a womana while ago I read this PDF on sabian symbols, and it brought me to an immensely enlightening understanding of who I am http://www.jamesburgess.com/uploads/4/0/0/8/4008580/sabian_lite.pdf at the beginning I only read the degrees of my sun, moon, AC and MC, and the North Node, but the rest of the planets and points (SN and the vertex) make a lot of sense toogirlwiththerainysoulI just noticed this writer he has some other precious books available on this page: http://www.jamesburgess.com haven't read the rest yet (only the sabian mysteries) but I can't wait to!Ami Anne ------------------ Want to Read Simple, Fun,Sexy Articles on Astrology? Check Me Out, DUDE. http://www.mychristianpsychic.com/Belage quote:Originally posted by Kannon McAfee:Belage, this is a topic I have spoken of, which I understand is difficult for some to accept. Congratulations on breaking through to something beyond notions of astrological 'law'. While I cannot define for anyone else how this functions, I can give my experience and perceptions. It is important we understand balance and the need for it in all areas. So when we look at factors in the birth chart we understand that not only are there benefits there, but we can sense when we are stuck in a lesson we've already learned. That is where I was years ago with Moon in Capricorn. I used the astrological language to communicate to the universe how I wanted to change, and did. However, it is important to understand changing one's personality takes years -- decades even. While it may be done in spirit, there is still a learning curve in getting to the place we want to be.Yet I do not hold a notion of transcending the entirety of astrology. As has been taught in India by yogis the 'pull' of the planets upon us can be neutralized, but the only way I believe any of us can ever dream of transcending astrology in its entirety is to achieve the Mastery of Love. Love is the fulfillment of the law. Astrology is an inter-dimensional dynamic that mediates our soul growth and evolution. It cannot be dropped away in an 'as if' of its non-existence. There is order and purpose in the universe.One of the most difficult concepts for some in all this is that we can choose our birth charts, and in some sense all of us do every time. I don't necessarily mean that each of the particulars were contemplated before incarnating in an astrologically focused decision. I mean that astrology is part of nature and when we move by choice through the openings between dimensions that is a choice that includes all its implied choices and consequences. There is a very deep and subtle principle in Zen, the principle of non-grasping which relates to this. We often seem to think choice (exercise of free will) is defined by the sequence of what we see/desire and the reach for it. But in grasping at anything we enact expectations attached to that chosen object/person/etc. Synchronicity experienced through a mind guided by higher spiritual ideals releases us from any supposed law to see it as part of larger pattern and purpose. I much prefer this to notions of astrology acting upon us as if from the direction of some higher power that at best is doing it 'for our own good.' No we do it from varying places of soul growth and varying points in karmic progress.If something in the birth chart no longer serves you, because you've learned its lesson or it is now standing in the way of your further growth ... you can change it.Kannon, I understand what you are saying. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this. My perspective is different, and I am basing it on my own experience. There are certain areas of my life, it doesn't matter what I choose to do, the issues remain the same. And the planets have been a mirror of the earthly situation. And it's quite possible that some individuals such as me come to this earth with very little leeway or elbow room in terms of how much they can apply willpower to change their circumstances. Perhaps it's a manifestation of Sun (will) square the nodes (destiny).There is a sense of fatedness in my life, and I am making my peace with it instead of fighting it and I am no longer trying to manipulate my destiny through esoteric arts such as astrology and numerology. So for me what seems to work now is to do what I need to do, then let go and trust the Creator that everything is okay. I have been doing that, and my life seems to flow in a more organic, less stressful way. The issues are still there, but they don't bother me as much. RandallThought provoking.
But first a little story. You went to the store and bought something. When you start using that thing, it turns out to be malfunctioning or not satisfying or fulfilling. So you go back to the store to return or exchange the product. The store employees tell you that you cannot do that, that you are stuck with it.
What do you do, argue with the store employees? Do you take the product back home and try to make it work nonetheless?
Or do you go to the store owner and talk to him?
I did not create myself.
The planets did not create themselves.
The study of the planets and charts has not fixed my life in any way. There is a Supreme Being who created the planets and this entire universe. He is the one I finally realized I needed to talk to. This is the way I am transcending my chart.
By realize I mean honor each aspect. Be each aspect until it's story is told. This last bit I'm actually not sure of as I just tried to explain what I mean by realizatdion
Personally, I don't perceive any chart as easy or difficult, you make the best use of what you get, like you can use the energy of Mars square Pluto for Yoga, or you can use the same energy to beat up someone, it depends upon you.
As for transcending astrology, we gotta find our own ways I guess.
quote:Originally posted by Belage:The study of the planets and charts has not fixed my life in any way. There is a Supreme Being who created the planets and this entire universe. He is the one I finally realized I needed to talk to. This is the way I am transcending my chart.
this is a great approach belage!
personally I follow astrology from time to time just for the fun of it...also when I feel a little down, at least now I know it's because of some transit or moon in some specific house
kind of like when it's before us ladies' monthly cycle when we may feel/act a little crazy lol, and once the period comes, everything feels peaceful again and we're like, oh, so I was acting out because of that
astrology helped me take life a lot easier
many enlightened people and spiritual teachers have been saying for thousands of years that life on earth is like a game which shouldn't be taken too seriously...being too stressed over every little detail, as well overthinking will kill all the fun
once death comes at the end for every living thing, we'll all be transferred to better places, God didn't create us to go backwards
for millions of years your soul along with God knows how many others has been in another world waiting to come on earth, but back then you had no worries, because unborn souls know deeply that they're safe and sound under God's protection..once it's our turn to come on Earth, to see all the beauty and art, so that in this way we get to know him, and feel "love", the essence of the universe, often we forget the point, and some even start pretending no God ever existed
they get caught up in the game, start taking life too seriously, often because they refuse to believe that there's an endless life after this short one, and think that a good 70-80 years is all they get, so they give it all they have and thus make Earth a little hell for others
the universe is perfect, it's purely mathematics; mathematics is art, you are art, a square isn't a flaw, it's just different from a trine
one day in our lives, everyone comes to appreciate what they already have and will start start enjoying life as it is
that's why 50-60 yr olds are often happier than younger people...after seeing the good and the bad, they understand that life is perfect, and beautiful just the way it is, because God is always with us in our hearts
that's why sufis refuse to love anyone but God, they believe that the human heart belongs to no one but God himself who has created it
And yes, I am finding myself to be happier and less obsessive, less anxious about adverse movements of planets since I have stopped checking them altogether.
I sense that since I have experienced a few technical breakdowns and lost a few things, that mercury must be retro or soon going retro right now, but I am not going to check it to see if it's true.
quote:Originally posted by florence:I feel like if you can realize each part of the chart, the chart drops away. A big piece of this puzzle being the moon for men, sun for women. By realize I mean honor each aspect. Be each aspect until it's story is told. This last bit I'm actually not sure of as I just tried to explain what I mean by realizatdion
Interesting point of view. Thank you for your input.
quote:Originally posted by anonymidarkness:I see astrology as a stepping stone. It's a very deep subject, full of informations gathered by observing planetary movements for thousands of years, a lifetime is way too short to study everything. But you don't stay on a stepping stone forever. Personally, I don't perceive any chart as easy or difficult, you make the best use of what you get, like you can use the energy of Mars square Pluto for Yoga, or you can use the same energy to beat up someone, it depends upon you.As for transcending astrology, we gotta find our own ways I guess.
On the subject of difficult vs easy charts, you may be right. it can be a matter of perspective.
Until recently, I had what most consider a difficult chart. Jupiter square Saturn. Saturn in 8th house. Venus in its fall. Stellium in 7th with Venus combust. Sun and Venus square the nodes.
But after a lot of struggles, I am finding myself at one of the most happiest time of my life, when I finally gave up trying to fix my life through using the planets and just giving it all to God. Accepting what is. This new spirituality could be expxlained by Neptune approaching my ascendant. But if my life had not been unfixable, I would have never given up trying to control things and giving it all to God. and feelign so free as a result. So my difficult chart turned out to be a blessing.
Contrasting this with an easy chart. I know someone who mostly trines in his chart. I mean a VERY EASY CHART. with stellium in 7th making all kinds of easy aspects with Jupiter and Saturn.
This person happens to be a severely autistic man who needs people to do everything for him, including wiping his butts. He has someone tending to him at all time. So much for the benefits of an "easy" chart.
Like take a trine placement. You can be a lazy slob who sits at home and eats chips, and watches Games Of Thrones all day, or.....
..you can use your trine to build up your self confidence and create great art!
quote:Originally posted by Belage: OBut if my life had not been unfixable, I would have never given up trying to control things and giving it all to God. and feelign so free as a result. So my difficult chart turned out to be a blessing.
beautifully said, and I couldn't agree more!
I hope you continue to have an amazing journey on this newfound spirituality
While I cannot define for anyone else how this functions, I can give my experience and perceptions. It is important we understand balance and the need for it in all areas. So when we look at factors in the birth chart we understand that not only are there benefits there, but we can sense when we are stuck in a lesson we've already learned. That is where I was years ago with Moon in Capricorn. I used the astrological language to communicate to the universe how I wanted to change, and did. However, it is important to understand changing one's personality takes years -- decades even. While it may be done in spirit, there is still a learning curve in getting to the place we want to be.
Yet I do not hold a notion of transcending the entirety of astrology. As has been taught in India by yogis the 'pull' of the planets upon us can be neutralized, but the only way I believe any of us can ever dream of transcending astrology in its entirety is to achieve the Mastery of Love. Love is the fulfillment of the law. Astrology is an inter-dimensional dynamic that mediates our soul growth and evolution. It cannot be dropped away in an 'as if' of its non-existence. There is order and purpose in the universe.
One of the most difficult concepts for some in all this is that we can choose our birth charts, and in some sense all of us do every time. I don't necessarily mean that each of the particulars were contemplated before incarnating in an astrologically focused decision. I mean that astrology is part of nature and when we move by choice through the openings between dimensions that is a choice that includes all its implied choices and consequences. There is a very deep and subtle principle in Zen, the principle of non-grasping which relates to this. We often seem to think choice (exercise of free will) is defined by the sequence of what we see/desire and the reach for it. But in grasping at anything we enact expectations attached to that chosen object/person/etc.
Synchronicity experienced through a mind guided by higher spiritual ideals releases us from any supposed law to see it as part of larger pattern and purpose. I much prefer this to notions of astrology acting upon us as if from the direction of some higher power that at best is doing it 'for our own good.' No we do it from varying places of soul growth and varying points in karmic progress.
If something in the birth chart no longer serves you, because you've learned its lesson or it is now standing in the way of your further growth ... you can change it.
------------------The Declinations GuyRising Sign Descriptions♈ ♉ ♊ ♋ ♌ ♍ ♎ ♏ ♐ ♑ ♒ ♓
I agree with you, we are a mixture of all the points and planets in our charts. after hanging out for quite some time with this man who has his sun opposed to my sun, and trine my moon, I realized that I came to know a lot more about who I was. turns out his sun opposing my sun was what I needed to get a firmer grasp on my sun as a woman
a while ago I read this PDF on sabian symbols, and it brought me to an immensely enlightening understanding of who I am http://www.jamesburgess.com/uploads/4/0/0/8/4008580/sabian_lite.pdf
at the beginning I only read the degrees of my sun, moon, AC and MC, and the North Node, but the rest of the planets and points (SN and the vertex) make a lot of sense too
haven't read the rest yet (only the sabian mysteries) but I can't wait to!
------------------ Want to Read Simple, Fun,Sexy Articles on Astrology? Check Me Out, DUDE.
http://www.mychristianpsychic.com/
quote:Originally posted by Kannon McAfee:Belage, this is a topic I have spoken of, which I understand is difficult for some to accept. Congratulations on breaking through to something beyond notions of astrological 'law'. While I cannot define for anyone else how this functions, I can give my experience and perceptions. It is important we understand balance and the need for it in all areas. So when we look at factors in the birth chart we understand that not only are there benefits there, but we can sense when we are stuck in a lesson we've already learned. That is where I was years ago with Moon in Capricorn. I used the astrological language to communicate to the universe how I wanted to change, and did. However, it is important to understand changing one's personality takes years -- decades even. While it may be done in spirit, there is still a learning curve in getting to the place we want to be.Yet I do not hold a notion of transcending the entirety of astrology. As has been taught in India by yogis the 'pull' of the planets upon us can be neutralized, but the only way I believe any of us can ever dream of transcending astrology in its entirety is to achieve the Mastery of Love. Love is the fulfillment of the law. Astrology is an inter-dimensional dynamic that mediates our soul growth and evolution. It cannot be dropped away in an 'as if' of its non-existence. There is order and purpose in the universe.One of the most difficult concepts for some in all this is that we can choose our birth charts, and in some sense all of us do every time. I don't necessarily mean that each of the particulars were contemplated before incarnating in an astrologically focused decision. I mean that astrology is part of nature and when we move by choice through the openings between dimensions that is a choice that includes all its implied choices and consequences. There is a very deep and subtle principle in Zen, the principle of non-grasping which relates to this. We often seem to think choice (exercise of free will) is defined by the sequence of what we see/desire and the reach for it. But in grasping at anything we enact expectations attached to that chosen object/person/etc. Synchronicity experienced through a mind guided by higher spiritual ideals releases us from any supposed law to see it as part of larger pattern and purpose. I much prefer this to notions of astrology acting upon us as if from the direction of some higher power that at best is doing it 'for our own good.' No we do it from varying places of soul growth and varying points in karmic progress.If something in the birth chart no longer serves you, because you've learned its lesson or it is now standing in the way of your further growth ... you can change it.
Kannon, I understand what you are saying. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this.
My perspective is different, and I am basing it on my own experience. There are certain areas of my life, it doesn't matter what I choose to do, the issues remain the same. And the planets have been a mirror of the earthly situation.
And it's quite possible that some individuals such as me come to this earth with very little leeway or elbow room in terms of how much they can apply willpower to change their circumstances. Perhaps it's a manifestation of Sun (will) square the nodes (destiny).
There is a sense of fatedness in my life, and I am making my peace with it instead of fighting it and I am no longer trying to manipulate my destiny through esoteric arts such as astrology and numerology.
So for me what seems to work now is to do what I need to do, then let go and trust the Creator that everything is okay. I have been doing that, and my life seems to flow in a more organic, less stressful way. The issues are still there, but they don't bother me as much.
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