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T O P I C R E V I E WLei_KueiJust mulling over the links between the Christian Eucharist tradition and its links with the Mystery Religions that were on going both centuries before and during the supposed time of Jesus. quote: http://www.robertmprice.mindvendor.com/art_corn_king.htm This theory had some real strengths. For example, once one becomes aware of the possibility that Jesus' death and resurrection was another version of the myths whereby Adonis, Persephone, Tammuz, Attis, Osiris, and Hercules Sandan died and rose to symbolize the death and resurrection of vegetation, certain New Testament passages suddenly seem to glow with a new light. For instance, the words of institution at the Last Supper: "This is my body." What is "this"? Bread. "This is my blood," "this" referring to wine. Are not those the words of a vegetation god? He sacrifices his body of grain, his blood of the grape, for humanity. Is this Jesus talking, or John Barleycorn? 1The death and resurrection imagery might stand also for the burial and sprouting of the seed. Persephone's yearly journeys to Hades and back were compared to the burial of the seed and the sprouting of the crop, which of course it symbolized. It is striking to find in John's gospel these words in which Jesus reflects on his own impending death: "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit" (12:24). Paul uses the same metaphor for the general resurrection of the righteous in 1 Corinthians 15:35ff ("What you sow does not come to life unless it dies," etc.) Admittedly, the image is a natural, even inevitable analogy for resurrection; one cannot prove that it is the origin or original meaning of the idea of resurrection.Ritual resemblances, too, tempted scholars to declare Christ another corn king. For instance, the ritual mourning for Attis began with the chopping down of a tree. To it was affixed an image of Attis, a crucifix, in short. (Compare 1 Peter 2:24, "He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness." The "tree" here is probably just a metaphor for the wooden cross. However one occasionally sees Christian crucifixes depicting Jesus on an actual tree trunk.2 After the ceremony depicting his death, the faithful waited three days and then rejoiced in Attis' resurrection. "Be of good cheer, you of the mystery! Your god is saved; for us also there shall be salvation from ills!" Various rituals (some unspeakably bloody, unlike anything we know of in early Christianity) joined the worshipper with the resurrected god, as did Christian baptism. Attis' worshippers, too, partook of a holy meal, a sacrament not open to outsiders, consisting probably of corn and wine. Osiris' eucharist was bread and beer.-------------------In terms of eating human flesh and drinking blood, EVEN is it was just figurative... is the kind of thing that would be totally abhorrent to Judaism in relation to a "Passover" meal Which again adds some credence to the want of distancing of early Christianity from the old ways and Yahweh... Christian-Gnosticism in its various forms was very much of the "Mystery Religion" variety, and such leaves the Blood drinking ritual right in that spectrum of accepted tradition... Perhaps the next time you accept this sacrament at mass... Think of ye old "Osiris" resting on your tongue lol ------------------~*~ Did you know that a circle is round? ~*~ - TautologyYou can't handle my level of Tinfoil! ~ {;,;}juniperbI have never participated in the ritual. Our Pentecostal Church didn`t practice it. ------------------We dance around the ring and suppose, but the secret sits in the middle and KnowsRobert FrostLei_KueiAhh wow, I wasn't aware they didn't partake in that sacrament, my knowledge of pentecostal churches is somewhat limited I myself haven't had a swig of Attis blood, or rested his little bread corpse on my tongue in about hrmmm... 15 years or so lolThat article I posted later goes on to say its the one Neo-Pagan ritual missing from the calendar quote:Neo-Pagans have revived just about every known form of pre-Christian paganism, real or hypothetical. Then why not the pre-Christian religion of Jesus Adonis (Adonis, like the Old Testament Adonai, means "Lord")? Corn King Christianity is the missing option in the spectrum of today's Neo-Pagan Revival.I just find it amazing that 99% people who accept this sacrament in whatever church they are in, haven't the slightest notion of its true "history"... tis madness!------------------~*~ Did you know that a circle is round? ~*~ - TautologyYou can't handle my level of Tinfoil! ~ {;,;}juniperbOne of my first "dates" at 12 was to attend an evening Baptist service with a fellow. They were hammering on the "blood of the lamb" and I got up and walked out. No one I asked could satisfy my questioning on it so I never darkened a Baptist door again. Come to find out later, it`s fairy universal in churchs ; just not my specific Assembly of God one.------------------We dance around the ring and suppose, but the secret sits in the middle and KnowsRobert FrostPixieJaneI've been to 2 Baptist churches (and those of my family who go to church go to the Baptist one) and neither one even mentioned this, so I'm surprised they'd have a "communion" thing (the eating & drinking). juniperbIt is a rural Baptist and it was umpteen years ago. Don`t know if that would make a difference or not.------------------We dance around the ring and suppose, but the secret sits in the middle and KnowsRobert FrostPixieJaneI looked it up and apparently most Baptists do have it, though practices vary wildly between individual churches. I'll ask those in my family who go to church about it next time I talk to them. juniperbI was quite offended by it as it was unheard of in my church. It made Jesus sound like a kook.------------------We dance around the ring and suppose, but the secret sits in the middle and KnowsRobert FrostLei_KueiNah, he isn't a kook, although he is probably a Vampire His Penchant for blood is very Sanguinarian... ------------------~*~ Did you know that a circle is round? ~*~ - TautologyYou can't handle my level of Tinfoil! ~ {;,;}
quote: http://www.robertmprice.mindvendor.com/art_corn_king.htm This theory had some real strengths. For example, once one becomes aware of the possibility that Jesus' death and resurrection was another version of the myths whereby Adonis, Persephone, Tammuz, Attis, Osiris, and Hercules Sandan died and rose to symbolize the death and resurrection of vegetation, certain New Testament passages suddenly seem to glow with a new light. For instance, the words of institution at the Last Supper: "This is my body." What is "this"? Bread. "This is my blood," "this" referring to wine. Are not those the words of a vegetation god? He sacrifices his body of grain, his blood of the grape, for humanity. Is this Jesus talking, or John Barleycorn? 1The death and resurrection imagery might stand also for the burial and sprouting of the seed. Persephone's yearly journeys to Hades and back were compared to the burial of the seed and the sprouting of the crop, which of course it symbolized. It is striking to find in John's gospel these words in which Jesus reflects on his own impending death: "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit" (12:24). Paul uses the same metaphor for the general resurrection of the righteous in 1 Corinthians 15:35ff ("What you sow does not come to life unless it dies," etc.) Admittedly, the image is a natural, even inevitable analogy for resurrection; one cannot prove that it is the origin or original meaning of the idea of resurrection.Ritual resemblances, too, tempted scholars to declare Christ another corn king. For instance, the ritual mourning for Attis began with the chopping down of a tree. To it was affixed an image of Attis, a crucifix, in short. (Compare 1 Peter 2:24, "He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness." The "tree" here is probably just a metaphor for the wooden cross. However one occasionally sees Christian crucifixes depicting Jesus on an actual tree trunk.2 After the ceremony depicting his death, the faithful waited three days and then rejoiced in Attis' resurrection. "Be of good cheer, you of the mystery! Your god is saved; for us also there shall be salvation from ills!" Various rituals (some unspeakably bloody, unlike anything we know of in early Christianity) joined the worshipper with the resurrected god, as did Christian baptism. Attis' worshippers, too, partook of a holy meal, a sacrament not open to outsiders, consisting probably of corn and wine. Osiris' eucharist was bread and beer.
The death and resurrection imagery might stand also for the burial and sprouting of the seed. Persephone's yearly journeys to Hades and back were compared to the burial of the seed and the sprouting of the crop, which of course it symbolized. It is striking to find in John's gospel these words in which Jesus reflects on his own impending death: "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit" (12:24). Paul uses the same metaphor for the general resurrection of the righteous in 1 Corinthians 15:35ff ("What you sow does not come to life unless it dies," etc.) Admittedly, the image is a natural, even inevitable analogy for resurrection; one cannot prove that it is the origin or original meaning of the idea of resurrection.
Ritual resemblances, too, tempted scholars to declare Christ another corn king. For instance, the ritual mourning for Attis began with the chopping down of a tree. To it was affixed an image of Attis, a crucifix, in short. (Compare 1 Peter 2:24, "He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness." The "tree" here is probably just a metaphor for the wooden cross. However one occasionally sees Christian crucifixes depicting Jesus on an actual tree trunk.2 After the ceremony depicting his death, the faithful waited three days and then rejoiced in Attis' resurrection. "Be of good cheer, you of the mystery! Your god is saved; for us also there shall be salvation from ills!" Various rituals (some unspeakably bloody, unlike anything we know of in early Christianity) joined the worshipper with the resurrected god, as did Christian baptism. Attis' worshippers, too, partook of a holy meal, a sacrament not open to outsiders, consisting probably of corn and wine. Osiris' eucharist was bread and beer.
-------------------
In terms of eating human flesh and drinking blood, EVEN is it was just figurative... is the kind of thing that would be totally abhorrent to Judaism in relation to a "Passover" meal
Which again adds some credence to the want of distancing of early Christianity from the old ways and Yahweh... Christian-Gnosticism in its various forms was very much of the "Mystery Religion" variety, and such leaves the Blood drinking ritual right in that spectrum of accepted tradition...
Perhaps the next time you accept this sacrament at mass... Think of ye old "Osiris" resting on your tongue lol
------------------~*~ Did you know that a circle is round? ~*~ - TautologyYou can't handle my level of Tinfoil! ~ {;,;}
------------------We dance around the ring and suppose, but the secret sits in the middle and KnowsRobert Frost
I myself haven't had a swig of Attis blood, or rested his little bread corpse on my tongue in about hrmmm... 15 years or so lol
That article I posted later goes on to say its the one Neo-Pagan ritual missing from the calendar
quote:Neo-Pagans have revived just about every known form of pre-Christian paganism, real or hypothetical. Then why not the pre-Christian religion of Jesus Adonis (Adonis, like the Old Testament Adonai, means "Lord")? Corn King Christianity is the missing option in the spectrum of today's Neo-Pagan Revival.
I just find it amazing that 99% people who accept this sacrament in whatever church they are in, haven't the slightest notion of its true "history"... tis madness!
No one I asked could satisfy my questioning on it so I never darkened a Baptist door again. Come to find out later, it`s fairy universal in churchs ; just not my specific Assembly of God one.
His Penchant for blood is very Sanguinarian...
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