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T O P I C R E V I E WAdrianaI have a stellium in Sagittarius, and I’ve always wondered if I should use a wider orb than usual in synastry because of the transfer of light between the stellium planets. I have: MC 4* Uranus 5*, Sun 12*, Venus 20*, Mercury 21*, Neptune 26*. If someone has Aquarius Mercury 7* should I consider aspects to the Sun?What would your rules be on a stellium, if anything at all? Bismarck2I wouldn't bother with anything above 5d, personally. Usually, when people use increased orbs in synastry, it's out of desperation to see evidence that someone else likes them. If you're at the point of desperation, there's probably nothing there to begin with. This is why I always reduce orb allowance on astro.com by 75%RandallBump!GrahamI like the theory that (because 2 charts = twice as many aspects) synastry orbs should be half of those used by astrologers when analysing a natal chart.Then ... a 5-degrees-orb Sun-Mercury synastry conjunction is valid only if the astrologer considers 10-degrees-orb natal chart conjunctions to be valid.However, this does not involve the transfer of light theory - which applies only if a planet makes a within-orb bridge between two planets that are (otherwise) out-of-orb. ... For example, if personA has an out-of-orb natal conjunction of Sun-Neptune and personB's natal Mercury is at a degree which makes a within-orb aspect to both, that "Mercury bridge" enables personA's Sun and Neptune to indirectly* communicate with each other.[*Hence, if Mercury happens to be afflicted, Sun might say "send a tank, as we are going to advance" and Neptune might hear "send a tankard; we are going to a dance".] Adriana quote:Originally posted by Bismarck2:I wouldn't bother with anything above 5d, personally. Usually, when people use increased orbs in synastry, it's out of desperation to see evidence that someone else likes them. If you're at the point of desperation, there's probably nothing there to begin with. This is why I always reduce orb allowance on astro.com by 75%I’ve never really included them, but may pay a bit attention to like a 6 deg orb when it could be a transfer of light. This is more a general question than a specific synastry where I’m trying to squeeze more compability out of. The entire synastry interpretation would suffer if I didn’t include them if they were “valid” as that would be a serious bunch of ignored aspects :PAdriana quote:Originally posted by Graham:I like the theory that (because 2 charts = twice as many aspects) synastry orbs should be half of those used by astrologers when analysing a natal chart.Then ... a 5-degrees-orb Sun-Mercury synastry conjunction is valid only if the astrologer considers 10-degrees-orb natal chart conjunctions to be valid.However, this does not involve the transfer of light theory - which applies only if a planet makes a within-orb bridge between two planets that are (otherwise) out-of-orb. ... For example, if personA has an out-of-orb natal conjunction of Sun-Neptune and personB's natal Mercury is at a degree which makes a within-orb aspect to both, that "Mercury bridge" enables personA's Sun and Neptune to [b]indirectly* communicate with each other.[*Hence, if Mercury happens to be afflicted, Sun might say "send a tank, as we are going to advance" and Neptune might hear "send a tankard; we are going to a dance".] [/B]I’m paying attention in cases like that with a bridge planet but trying not to go overboard with the orbs. I guess i should look at synastry with people I know to see if I can feel those sort of aspects with the stellium. I’d never have more than one bridge. Like if I’d fancy a Venus Pluto aspect and they are at the start and end of a stellium, I don’t think saying “because Venus con Sun and Sun con Jupiter and Jup con Mercury and Mercury is con Pluto! Then there’s must be Venus con Pluto!”It’s more a case of knowing how intertwined they can be in a natal chartGraham quote:I’d never have more than one bridge. Like if I’d fancy a Venus Pluto aspect and they are at the start and end of a stellium, I don’t think saying “because Venus con Sun and Sun con Jupiter and Jup con Mercury and Mercury is con Pluto! Then there’s must be Venus con Pluto!”A bridge between two planets that are out-of-orb for a conjunction does not make them behave as though in a within-orb conjunction. ... It only provides a mechanism for them to communicate with each other - which may be helpful or detrimental, but will not result in a "blending" of their respective qualities.Graham quote:[/b]I have (in Sagittarius): MC 4* Uranus 5*, Sun 12*, Venus 20*, Mercury 21*, Neptune 26*. If someone has Aquarius Mercury 7* should I consider aspects to the Sun?[/b]Harmonics can (sometimes) help to clarify the "blurring" that is created by aspect orbs. For example :-That Aquarius Mercury makes a one-degree-orb novile/9H aspect to your natal Neptune*, Adriana. ... So, what effect (if any) would you expect it to have on the way in which your natal Sun and Neptune interact?[*That Aquarius Mercury is 55 degrees from natal Sun, which is a 72nd harmonic aspect. And the 72H = 9H (pleasure) x 8H (persisting) = pleasure in persisting.The 14 degrees separating your natal Sun and Neptune is a 180th harmonic aspect. And the 180H = 9H (pleasure) x 20H (implementing plans) = pleasure in implementing plans.So, might this Aquarius Mercury person encourage you to persist with plans that might otherwise never see the light of day?]RandallBump!Adriana quote:Originally posted by Graham: A bridge between two planets that are out-of-orb for a conjunction does not make them behave as though in a within-orb conjunction. ... It only provides a mechanism for them to communicate with each other - which may be helpful [b]or detrimental, but will not result in a "blending" of their respective qualities.[/B]Yeah, that makes senseDons2angelss quote:Originally posted by Graham:I like the theory that (because 2 charts = twice as many aspects) synastry orbs should be half of those used by astrologers when analysing a natal chart.Then ... a 5-degrees-orb Sun-Mercury synastry conjunction is valid only if the astrologer considers 10-degrees-orb natal chart conjunctions to be valid.However, this does not involve the transfer of light theory - which applies only if a planet makes a within-orb bridge between two planets that are (otherwise) out-of-orb. ... For example, if personA has an out-of-orb natal conjunction of Sun-Neptune and personB's natal Mercury is at a degree which makes a within-orb aspect to both, that "Mercury bridge" enables personA's Sun and Neptune to [b]indirectly* communicate with each other.[*Hence, if Mercury happens to be afflicted, Sun might say "send a tank, as we are going to advance" and Neptune might hear "send a tankard; we are going to a dance".] [/B] Very interesting. My sun is 10d away from chiron. My bf's venus/uranus opposes that wide conjuction right in the middle of the two and your description fits how it plays out in our relationship. comdocAdriana, I pay attention to planetary speeds, whether aspects are applying or separating, and Decanates (10* one-third divisions of Signs) when evaluating chart connections; same decan placements are affected by the same Sign and Decanate planet rulers. As you know, interpersonal planets can act as bridges, empowering internal potentials and manifestations. That's part of the magic of intimate relationships. RandallBump!RandallBump!
What would your rules be on a stellium, if anything at all?
This is why I always reduce orb allowance on astro.com by 75%
Then ... a 5-degrees-orb Sun-Mercury synastry conjunction is valid only if the astrologer considers 10-degrees-orb natal chart conjunctions to be valid.
However, this does not involve the transfer of light theory - which applies only if a planet makes a within-orb bridge between two planets that are (otherwise) out-of-orb. ... For example, if personA has an out-of-orb natal conjunction of Sun-Neptune and personB's natal Mercury is at a degree which makes a within-orb aspect to both, that "Mercury bridge" enables personA's Sun and Neptune to indirectly* communicate with each other.
[*Hence, if Mercury happens to be afflicted, Sun might say "send a tank, as we are going to advance" and Neptune might hear "send a tankard; we are going to a dance".]
quote:Originally posted by Bismarck2:I wouldn't bother with anything above 5d, personally. Usually, when people use increased orbs in synastry, it's out of desperation to see evidence that someone else likes them. If you're at the point of desperation, there's probably nothing there to begin with. This is why I always reduce orb allowance on astro.com by 75%
I’ve never really included them, but may pay a bit attention to like a 6 deg orb when it could be a transfer of light. This is more a general question than a specific synastry where I’m trying to squeeze more compability out of. The entire synastry interpretation would suffer if I didn’t include them if they were “valid” as that would be a serious bunch of ignored aspects :P
quote:Originally posted by Graham:I like the theory that (because 2 charts = twice as many aspects) synastry orbs should be half of those used by astrologers when analysing a natal chart.Then ... a 5-degrees-orb Sun-Mercury synastry conjunction is valid only if the astrologer considers 10-degrees-orb natal chart conjunctions to be valid.However, this does not involve the transfer of light theory - which applies only if a planet makes a within-orb bridge between two planets that are (otherwise) out-of-orb. ... For example, if personA has an out-of-orb natal conjunction of Sun-Neptune and personB's natal Mercury is at a degree which makes a within-orb aspect to both, that "Mercury bridge" enables personA's Sun and Neptune to [b]indirectly* communicate with each other.[*Hence, if Mercury happens to be afflicted, Sun might say "send a tank, as we are going to advance" and Neptune might hear "send a tankard; we are going to a dance".] [/B]
However, this does not involve the transfer of light theory - which applies only if a planet makes a within-orb bridge between two planets that are (otherwise) out-of-orb. ... For example, if personA has an out-of-orb natal conjunction of Sun-Neptune and personB's natal Mercury is at a degree which makes a within-orb aspect to both, that "Mercury bridge" enables personA's Sun and Neptune to [b]indirectly* communicate with each other.
[/B]
I’m paying attention in cases like that with a bridge planet but trying not to go overboard with the orbs. I guess i should look at synastry with people I know to see if I can feel those sort of aspects with the stellium. I’d never have more than one bridge. Like if I’d fancy a Venus Pluto aspect and they are at the start and end of a stellium, I don’t think saying “because Venus con Sun and Sun con Jupiter and Jup con Mercury and Mercury is con Pluto! Then there’s must be Venus con Pluto!”
It’s more a case of knowing how intertwined they can be in a natal chart
quote:I’d never have more than one bridge. Like if I’d fancy a Venus Pluto aspect and they are at the start and end of a stellium, I don’t think saying “because Venus con Sun and Sun con Jupiter and Jup con Mercury and Mercury is con Pluto! Then there’s must be Venus con Pluto!”
A bridge between two planets that are out-of-orb for a conjunction does not make them behave as though in a within-orb conjunction. ... It only provides a mechanism for them to communicate with each other - which may be helpful or detrimental, but will not result in a "blending" of their respective qualities.
quote:[/b]I have (in Sagittarius): MC 4* Uranus 5*, Sun 12*, Venus 20*, Mercury 21*, Neptune 26*. If someone has Aquarius Mercury 7* should I consider aspects to the Sun?[/b]
Harmonics can (sometimes) help to clarify the "blurring" that is created by aspect orbs. For example :-
That Aquarius Mercury makes a one-degree-orb novile/9H aspect to your natal Neptune*, Adriana. ... So, what effect (if any) would you expect it to have on the way in which your natal Sun and Neptune interact?
[*That Aquarius Mercury is 55 degrees from natal Sun, which is a 72nd harmonic aspect. And the 72H = 9H (pleasure) x 8H (persisting) = pleasure in persisting.
The 14 degrees separating your natal Sun and Neptune is a 180th harmonic aspect. And the 180H = 9H (pleasure) x 20H (implementing plans) = pleasure in implementing plans.
So, might this Aquarius Mercury person encourage you to persist with plans that might otherwise never see the light of day?]
quote:Originally posted by Graham: A bridge between two planets that are out-of-orb for a conjunction does not make them behave as though in a within-orb conjunction. ... It only provides a mechanism for them to communicate with each other - which may be helpful [b]or detrimental, but will not result in a "blending" of their respective qualities.[/B]
Yeah, that makes sense
Very interesting. My sun is 10d away from chiron. My bf's venus/uranus opposes that wide conjuction right in the middle of the two and your description fits how it plays out in our relationship.
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