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Author Topic:   I NEED your help. Should I fight this?
Belage
Knowflake

Posts: 435
From: California
Registered: Apr 2009

posted June 09, 2007 02:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Belage     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I need help deciding if I should appeal a court case. THANK YOU ALL FOR LOOKING INTO THIS AND GIVING ME YOUR FEEDBACK.

Yesterday was not a very good day. Mars in Aries was exactly opposite my Mercury in Libra. I went to traffic court for a trial over a citation I was given on March 05, for making "an unsafe turn", and even though I presented plenty of evidence that I was not culpable, I was found guilty. Sigh... I should have hired an attorney.

I have the option of appealing the sentence, this time by hiring an attorney, or just give up. It is hard for me to just give up because I did nothing wrong. But at the same time, I am torn at the prospect of being in a protracted and costly fight that I may or may not win.

IF YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW THE DETAILS, PLEASE SKIP TO MY NEXT POST WHICH WILL HAVE MY ASTROLOGICAL INFORMATION. IF YOU WANT TO KNOW THE DETAILS OF MY CASE, PLEASE READ THE INFORMATION BELOW.

At the trial yesterday, the officer who had issued the citation argued that I crossed 2 lines of traffic to make a left turn and in doing so I also almost ran him over. That's why, he claimed, he pulled me over and had to give me a citation.

The truth is that, as I explained to the judge, I did NOT go over 2 lanes of traffic, I had been driving in the left lane for at least 900 feet before I made my left turn. I had absolutely no reason to be in the right lane, seeing that I was going to the DMV to renew my license, The DMV was located in a street to the left. I live less than 1 mile away from the DMV, this is a small town, and have been living there for 4 years, and I had no reason to act like someone who doesn't know where they're going and suddenly at the last minute decides to cross 2 lanes of traffic to make a left turn when I could have been in the left lane all along.

The officer pulled me over because 10 minutes earlier, (as I found out by going through police records later,) the police was alerted that there had been an altercation incident between a black male and a female and that both of them had fled in separate vehicles. The female whose race had not been determined at the time the officer stopped me, had been described as wearing a red top and driving a sliver or gray vehicle, and at the time I was wearing a red top and driving a vehicle whose color could be interpreted as being in the silver/gray range.

Let me add that I live in an overwhelmingly white area with maybe only 1% black, and with a very visible police presence and a very low crime rate.

What alerted me to the fact that there was more to the story is because as he was writing the citation, he kept asking me if I had been in argument with my boyfriend, if I had been in an argument with a black man. And I kept telling him no, that I was married, and to a white man at that and I offered to call my husband who was on his way to work to have him come over and testify to the fact that we didn't have an argument.

At some point, a lady officer arrived at the scene and looked at me and shook her head side to side in a motion to indicate that I was not the one they were looking for and they spoke on the side and he let me go but refused to cancel the citation.

Interestingly, the police record shows that it wasn't until a few minutes after he pulled me over that the information came that the female they were looking for was a white female.

Anyway, to make a long story short, I got police records of the reported incident showing how I matched most of the description of the female they were looking for, and how this was the real reason I was stopped. I showed the timeline of everything. I should have hired an attorney. the judge kept rolling his eyes up as I presented evidence after evidence, never once looked me straight in the face, and even though the police officer contradicted himself in his testimony, saying he was going east, and then later under cross admitting he was going west, even though he admitted that he did ask me those questions because I was fitting the description, he still maintained that I went across 2 lanes of traffic to almost run him over, and the judge ruled in his favor and found me guilty.

I have the option of appealing the sentence, and I will have to hire an attorney for that, but I am wondering if I should even bother.

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Belage
Knowflake

Posts: 435
From: California
Registered: Apr 2009

posted June 09, 2007 02:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Belage     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The officer pulled me over 2 days after the March eclipse that fell exactly on my natal Mars at 13 degree of Virgo. At the time of the eclipse, transiting Uranus, the planet of unpredictability was opposite my Mars, and Transiting Mars was opposing my Uranus. So there was a double Mars/Uranus opposition whammo!!

Here is my natal chart:



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Azalaksh
Knowflake

Posts: 982
From: New Brighton, MN, USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted June 09, 2007 02:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Azalaksh     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just thoughts -- no astro interps.....
A decent attorney could probably take the conflicting testimony on record from the police officer and cut it to ribbons. It's clear to me from your story that they stopped you because of the "argument" then to save face the office concocted the "crossing 2 lanes to run me over" story. If this citation causes your insurance to go up (or other such negative financial impact) I would probably take it back to court. If you can spare the money (and time) I might do this anyway, to fight the traditional arrogance of power. But if your town is very small, and you win, you may also have to contend with revenge from that officer.....

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Belage
Knowflake

Posts: 435
From: California
Registered: Apr 2009

posted June 09, 2007 02:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Belage     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Azalaksh, thanks for replying.

If if was just me, I wouldn't give a fly and would fight the sentence, but I have a 10 year son and as he grows older I don't want him to have to contend with an hostile police department. If I can be given a ticket when I was going about my business not doing anything wrong, I can imagine they will find millions of reasons to harass a teenager. Honestly, I told my husband I want us to move out of this town by the time our kid enters high school in a few years.

Oh, and by the way, as it turned out, the man involved in the altercation was not even black as they originally reported, but HMA, code for hispanic man, as shown on the police record.

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Jan_A
unregistered
posted June 09, 2007 02:57 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I would not appeal.
Forget it!

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AcousticGod
Knowflake

Posts: 4417
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted June 09, 2007 03:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I agree with fighting it. At very least consult an attorney to get their take on the situation. They should be able to tell you what you could expect.

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Thethirdbenjamin
unregistered
posted June 09, 2007 03:12 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes!! I know how you feel I've been in trafic court three times already and it is UNFAIR.

Particularly in towns were cops don't have anything to do and try to look like there working on something to please the police chief.

My mom got a $15 ticket and she is the least likely driver to get a ticket.

If you have the time I whould fight it it's unfair and you should, if everyone faught it, it whould make a diffrence.


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BornUnderDioscuri
Moderator

Posts: 49
From:
Registered: Jun 2009

posted June 09, 2007 03:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BornUnderDioscuri     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If money wasn't too tight I personally would definately appeal. It is absolutely unfair and traffic tickets make your car insurance go up. Its unecessary and that man clearly abused his power.

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Thethirdbenjamin
unregistered
posted June 09, 2007 03:21 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You should see Ottawa, its horrible here

Everyone here has at least gotten a trafic ticket or has received a traffic related charge.

The same day they said they were going to start targeting moterists they stated the city is in a deficit.

One person I know got a ticket for going over the cross walk.

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Belage
Knowflake

Posts: 435
From: California
Registered: Apr 2009

posted June 09, 2007 03:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Belage     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Jan_A and Acoustic God. I am sooooo undecided and torn.

Negative transits involving Mars and Uranus are no joke. LOL!!

Uranus is sooooo unpredictable. For the past 2 years, as transiting Uranus was approaching and making an opposition to my natal Mars which is at 13 degree of Virgo, I was EXTRA careful while driving, hardly ever taking the highway, extra careful to not get in an argument with anyone. I was careful with anything that had the potential of an accident. Nothing happened, and I was SO HAPPY. Finally, Uranus was now moving away from the opposition, and as it entered 15 degrees of Pisces, I thought I had beat the transit!! LOL!!!!!!!! I have to find humor in this. LOL!!! I cried for hours yesterday, I have to laugh now...

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Belage
Knowflake

Posts: 435
From: California
Registered: Apr 2009

posted June 09, 2007 03:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Belage     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
THirdBenjamin, I am sorry to hear that. This is my first time as a defendant in traffic court. I couldn't picture having to go there 3 times.

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Belage
Knowflake

Posts: 435
From: California
Registered: Apr 2009

posted June 09, 2007 03:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Belage     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
BornUnderDioscuri, thanks for replying. I am bracing myself for the raise in my car insurance. I had an unblemished record and the lowest rate of insurance before this unfortunate incident.

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Jan_A
unregistered
posted June 09, 2007 03:31 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Belage,
It seems, I am the only one, who says not to fight.
You know, it would be not so easy to prove, that police officer lies. Actually, he can stop any car to check papers...


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Belage
Knowflake

Posts: 435
From: California
Registered: Apr 2009

posted June 09, 2007 03:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Belage     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
One person I know got a ticket for going over the cross walk.

Sweet Bejus!! LOL!!!

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Thethirdbenjamin
unregistered
posted June 09, 2007 03:38 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, i won two of the cases the third I lost....

What you can do is ask for a "Informal Discovery Request" at the police station they shouldn't refuse it, it says all the notes the officer made when he stoped you

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Belage
Knowflake

Posts: 435
From: California
Registered: Apr 2009

posted June 09, 2007 03:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Belage     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
It seems, I am the only one, who says not to fight.
You know, it would be not so easy to prove, that police officer lies. Actually, he can stop any car to check papers...

Jan_A, actually, I don't mind being stopped. Not at all. If anybody fits the description of someone the police is looking for, I WANT that person to be pulled over, so they can make sure.

What I am upset at is being given an unfair ticket for something I did NOT do. The officer could have just let me go my merry way after finding out he made a mistake, but no, he had to slap a ticket on me. Then, if he didn't show up for Court, normally, the judge would have dismissed the case, but no he had to come, and lie through his teeth. That's despicable and I am upset about that.

I am not a firebrand kind of person, kill-the-cops, death-to-the-pigs, whatever. I have respect for law enforcement people because I think theirs can be a thankless job. But I have no respect for those who use their authority in an unethical way, and that goes for the judge too who clearly saw what was going on but choose to go with his personal bias instead.

BUT, it's neither here or there. The real question is,LOL, are the stars against me in this ? Should I just throw in the towel and give up?

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Thethirdbenjamin
unregistered
posted June 09, 2007 03:42 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
These are good books
http://www.amazon.com/Fight-Your-Ticket-California-11th/dp/1413301878/ref=pd_bbs_2/103-2274684-7475812?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1181417960&sr=1-2
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0965561089/sr/ref=pd_cp_b_1/103-2274684-7475812?ie=UTF8&qid=1181417960&sr=1-2&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-41&pf_rd_r=0VNQW8DA6B9E6M24KPQV& pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_p=252362401&pf_rd_i=1413301878

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Beowulf
unregistered
posted June 09, 2007 03:50 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dear Belage,

I want to help. At least to explain why this has happened, if not to say what you should do.

Please can you post your birth details so I can have a look at the transits. I think Pluto has something to do with this and you may need some info to help you make a decision on what to do.

But first, THE LAW is a SYSTEM!!! That's the first thing to understand. It is unfortunate that you have been 'caught up' in this system. But it's just a system. Detatch yourself from it and see it for what it is. With every system there is a PROCESS which must be followed. Find out what that process is and follow it through. Every process has OUTCOMES. Find out what the possible outcomes are. With THE LAW, NOTHING is random, it's a process. The unfortunate thing is that the LAW is administered by human beings, and you know as well as I do, that human beings often get it wrong.

Anyhow, more later. Let me know your stuff and I'll help.

Beowulf

------------------
Welcome all, good buddies. Be friendly and I'll be nice.

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Belage
Knowflake

Posts: 435
From: California
Registered: Apr 2009

posted June 09, 2007 03:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Belage     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks TheThirdBenjamin for the link: I wish I had check these books before going to court.

For an appeal, I will have to take an attorney, I can't leave anything to chance this time. One of the things a good attorney can do is make sure that your case is heard before a favorable judge, or at least one that is impartial. The judge who heard my case yesterday, after watching him handle the few cases ahead of me, I knew exactly what kind of judge he was, neither favorable, nor impartial. I know his type. They give the justice system a bad name.

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Jan_A
unregistered
posted June 09, 2007 03:52 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Belage,
I understand.
You know, for judge there is no reason to think, that police officer lies. His strange behavior has no reason...
I would forget it.

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Belage
Knowflake

Posts: 435
From: California
Registered: Apr 2009

posted June 09, 2007 04:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Belage     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Beowulf. I look forward to reading what you have to say. I posted my birth information in the second post. Do you need more than that?

Would the following help:

Planetary positions
planet sign degree motion
Sun Virgo 23°16'22 in house 7
Moon Libra 1°36'43 in house 7
Mercury Libra 19°39'08 in house 7
Venus Virgo 27°30'07 in house 7
Mars Virgo 13°03'30 in house 6
Jupiter Leo 20°25'47 in house 6
Saturn Scorpio 17°13'13 in house 8
Uranus Leo 1°08'33 in house 5
Neptune Libra 26°43'22 in house 8
Pluto Leo 27°20'35 in house 6
Tr Node Sagg 21°40'24 in house 10 retrograde

House positions (Placidus)
Ascendant Pisces 17°37'17
2nd House Aries 24°09'57
3rd House Taurus 24°49'22
Imum Coeli Gemini 21°03'02
5th House Cancer 16°13'52
6th House Leo 13°57'29
Descendant Virgo 17°37'17
8th House Libra 24°09'57
9th House Scorp 24°49'22
Medium Coeli Sagg 21°03'02
11th House Capr 16°13'52
12th House Aquars 13°57'29

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Beowulf
unregistered
posted June 09, 2007 04:29 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks. I'll get back to you.

------------------
Welcome all, good buddies. Be friendly and I'll be nice.

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Beowulf
unregistered
posted June 10, 2007 07:33 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dear Belage,

All of what I’m about to say may seem straightforward, but in my experience with fellow Virgo’s we like to have everything laid out and explained even if it is a simple thing to understand. For some reason, when somebody else points out the obvious, it seems to clarify our own thoughts and put things into perspective. I don’t wish to patronize you, I just wish to put your mind at rest, and stop the worrying that is going on in your head.

Since you have Pisces Rising you’re probably very emotional about this whole affair; and your imagination is working overtime imagining all kinds of scenarios, all the things that could happen: this can cloud your judgement.

This event has shattered your perception of the world and brought the taste of ‘reality’ home to you in a very unpleasant manner. You feel that an injustice has been done and you want to fight it and make it right.

Therefore, I want to put this in CONTEXT for you. I won’t bore you with the legal stuff (because, The Law is very complex) as this, I’m sure, won’t be of much help to you now, so I’ll explain it as clearly as possible.

You’ve not been accused of MURDER, ASSAULT, FRAUD or THEFT, or any other such criminal offence. This is a TRAFFIC offence. I don’t mean to be-little this incident, but it’s a MINOR offence when considered against the whole catalogue of criminal offences that are committed everyday. It’s a civil matter not a criminal matter. You have not been accused of a MAJOR criminal act like murder. And as a result they, meaning the authorities, don’t have the RIGHT to send you to jail. So don’t worry!

I’m sure that you are a law abiding citizen, but this has happened. You begin to think “Oh, **** , I’m a criminal, and they’re going to send me to jail!!!” NO THEY ARE NOT!!!!

If however, you went to the police station and shot the officer who cited you. And if there were a lot of witnesses who witnessed you shooting the officer, then you would be on a murder charge: a criminal offence. In this case the odds would be staked against you, because all the people (the witnesses) who saw you (who witnessed you) commit the act, they would testify against you that they saw you ‘pull the trigger’. And if enough ‘reliable’ witnesses came forward to testify against you, you would be convicted for murder. And thus go to jail, or worse, the chair. The Law is Logical. One event must lead on from another. And logic is a process. However, logic isn’t infallible. As Virgos, you and I know this more than most people.

However, you have RIGHTS and the LAW has to be seen to act “in due process”. You have the right to ‘due process of law’. And like I’ve said, The Law is a SYSTEM, a PROCESS, that has OUTCOMES. What you need to know is the process you are involved in and the possible outcomes of that process. Then you can make a risk assessment based on all the possible outcomes.

I suspect that the worst outcome, if found guilty (and I know you have said you have been found guilty), would be a fine. If that is the case you have to ‘way up’ the cost of proving your innocence against the cost of the fine. The truth is, whether you’re innocent or guilty, it will cost you a lot more to pursue this case than to pay the fine and let it go. Are you prepared for a protracted case which may, I’m not saying it will, but may go against you. The ‘conviction’ may be upheld. You also put yourself, your family and friends through the whole ordeal. Is it worth it?

It’s a RISK! A risk the police officer knows most people won’t take, so he’s going to formally make the charge. He validates his position! Why? Because he can. The power and the authority has been vested in him by the government to do so; knowing full well that most people won’t do anything about it.

However, you have the RIGHT to appeal this decision. It’s your RIGHT to do so. If you decide to appeal you NEED a RELIABLE, INDEPENDENT WITNESS who is prepared to support your version of the case and testify on your behalf. You could put up notices around the incident site asking for witnesses to contact you. Then, if someone does come forward, you should hire the services of a good attorney who deals SPECIFICALLY with traffic offences, and who has a good record of success in these cases.

However, there is usually a time limit to such appeals. You normally have a number of days to lodge an appeal. If you feel that the time limit is not long enough you can apply for more time. However, it’s a lot of work and effort to go through. Are you willing to do this?

You are the ACCUSED. Someone, in your case, a police officer, has accused you of committing a traffic offence. You have RIGHTS under the constitution. And you have the right to due process of law. Being ‘the accused’ is just an official name given to you so that a court of law can identify you. It’s not a slight against your character. Although, you will feel that it is!

I say this with the utmost respect: the MISTAKE you made was trying to defend this case by yourself. It doesn’t matter what you say, whether it’s the truth or not, the judge WILL accept the testimony of the police officer, HE HAS TO!!! A police officer is sanctioned by the government to up hold and enforce The Law. It’s not good enough to go to court and say “Your Honour, I didn’t do it!!” The fact is it’s your word against the police officer’s word. UNLESS you can PROVE by presenting witnesses in your defence that what the police officer said was incorrect, the judge will accept the testimony of the officer. This is because the police officer is in a ‘Position of Trust’ within the community, officially, he has to ‘tell it as he saw it’ and because he has taken an oath to tell the truth the judge will believe him.

The judge has nothing against you. It’s just the way the system works. And the system is as cold and heartless as it sounds.

Furthermore, the Judge won't take you seriously because you have not been trained in the Law. That's why you pay for the services of an Attorny. He has respect within the court room.

However, you will feel like you are the victim. You have been wronged. They didn’t listen to you; they didn’t believe you. It’s not that they thought you were telling a lie, it’s the fact that your ‘evidence’ didn’t substantiate your ‘Not Guilty’ plea. You need some ‘reliable’ person to testify against the police officer’s claims; someone who saw the incident; someone other than you, or a relative, or someone who is not biased in your favour. And hopefully, they saw it the way you saw it.

Without this you will not have a case. And it will be pointless trying to appeal.

Officially, a police officer is a warranted employee of a police service, who is employed by the government, who is finance by taxes. If you pay your taxes then you are paying the salary of the police officer. Therefore, you have the RIGHT to appeal his actions.

If you decide to appeal, do so with concrete evidence and that means witnesses.
Without witnesses it would be pointless to appeal the decision; even if you know that you are innocent. If you have a good witness, GO FOR IT!!! It's your right!

Next I’ll look at your chart and point out why this is happening.

MORE TO FOLLOW

------------------
Welcome all, good buddies. Be friendly and I'll be nice.

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Belage
Knowflake

Posts: 435
From: California
Registered: Apr 2009

posted June 10, 2007 01:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Belage     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Beowulf,

Thank you so much for breaking it down like that, in a way that my 3 planets (sun, mars and venus) in Virgo can understand. What you said is the cold hard truth.

Yes, I made a mistake by representing myself instead of hiring an attorney. Trying to cut corners on this ended up costing more in the long run.

From an astrological standpoint, besides my 3 planets in Virgo, I also have 3 planets in Libra, Moon, Mercury and the planet of illusion/idealism, Neptune. Libra being the sign of balance (which sometimes causes it to go back and forth) and justice, I can see both sides of this issue, and I have a fierce passion for justice. I have defended many people that I felt were unfairly attacked, both in my personal life and in my professional life, sometimes at a very high professional cost to me, like losing a job or antagonizing higherups thus burning professional bridges. And I guess it is my Libra side, that has a hard time letting go of this. Libra being a cardinal sign, it keeps going in the direction it wants to go, like a wheel in motion.

I think it if it was just me involved, I would probably forge ahead, risks and all, but I am also concerned about antagonizing the police department of a small town where I am raising a bi-racial boy (in America, that's considered plain ole black) who will become a teenager in a couple of years. More than anything else, that is probably my biggest concern.

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Belage
Knowflake

Posts: 435
From: California
Registered: Apr 2009

posted June 10, 2007 01:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Belage     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
And no, I don't have a witness that I can produce, though there were plenty of people who witnessed me being pulled over. They probably assumed I had done something wrong. Now, 3 months later, it would be hard to trace them.

I will most likely not pursue the appeal option, as it might not be worth the hassle.

I guess, if out of that eclipse involving double whammo of Uranus opposite mars in my chart, all I get is an unfair traffic ticket, I should probably count my blessings. It could have been a car or plane accident with injured limbs and loss of life. LOL!!! Maybe I should jump for joy!! lOL!!! Hey, my Pisces rising is trying to see the bright side of all this... The cosmic debt has been paid, Haha!!

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