posted August 24, 2008 08:07 PM         

From Dena Moore http://www.throughnightsfire.com/LoveandSaturnRetrograde.html

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Love and Saturn Retrograde
Understanding the anxiety and getting past the fear of intimacy

by Dena L Moore, Intuitive Evolutionary Astrologer

A man who has not passed through the inferno of his passions has
never overcome them.
~ CG Jung

We all have our share of intimacy fears that develop during our childhood and difficult early relationship experiences, but for most of us, our desire to be with another - to open our Self and share our inner being with someone - is much stronger than our fears. Because our inherent drive to be with someone is so powerful, we put ourselves out there and hope for the best. Through connecting with and interacting with others romantically, we get to know ourselves and learn about our own needs and desires when it comes to relating.

For a person with Saturn retrograde in the natal chart, intimacy fears are enormous. They may have an easy time connecting with others (depending on other factors in their chart) and could be very friendly and seemingly outgoing, but if you take a closer look you will soon realize that the Saturn retrograde person gets along fabulously with strangers or ‘new’ friends but tends to shut off - castrate - those who grow to love him or her or anyone who gets close enough to notice the fine cracks in the façade the native presents to others. There is a very tender and vulnerable emotional infant lurking within the Saturn retrograde native…this may be a very small aspect of the soul, or it could be a huge part of the personality, but beneath the strongly contained ego that appears to have it all together, there is a child wanting to be loved for who he or she is… an infant wanting to be nurtured and cherished and most of all, understood and appreciated. The fear of not being good enough, not being what is expected, of being weak and vulnerable to others or worse, superseded or totally unneeded by anyone, drives the Soul with Saturn retrograde deeper and deeper into a cocoon of their own making…an isolated and lonely place to be, a stranger in the shadows watching others and wondering why he (or she) feels so horribly alone.

The Saturn retrograde individual is like a sponge that absorbs all of the energy around him (her) and intuitively knows what is going on and how to protect the self within that atmosphere…he may also take on the beliefs or thought patterns of others, especially in youth, without even being aware that these beliefs aren’t really his own but were absorbed from the family or society/culture he was raised in. There is a (karmic) distortion in the personality that allows the external world to permeate the Soul, rendering the Saturn retrograde native’s early attempts at constructing boundaries ineffective. As the ego develops, it learns to construct higher and thicker emotional walls, extremely defensive barriers, and a reserve with others that says, “Do NOT approach.” Of course those superficially involved with the native may not sense or feel any of this because the fears aren’t activated until the Saturn retro individual grows closer or more involved with a person. Let him (or her) fall in Love and Bam…the fear floods in and the walls come up. The worries that the loved one will not love the ‘true’ self can be so strong that they distance themselves or sever the relationship in order to protect the loved one…and the Self.

Ironically, if they would move toward the lover, open to the lover, and find a way to let down the barriers, they would learn that their vulnerability is endearing and that by showing the real self, they could truly be loved for who they are, warts, wounds, and all. Yet once they finally do begin to open to another, the intensity of the awakening can be such that they must withdraw and protect themselves at all cost…this is especially true upon their first initiation into a karmic love relationship. This withdrawal and denial of love is heartbreaking for both partners involved…while the Saturn retro native’s lover may suffer and feel bereft when the love is withdrawn, it may help the lover to realize that the pain is even greater for the Saturn retro individual. Why? Because their inability to cope with intimacy pushes them into isolation and their despair and loneliness cannot be easily assuaged. If the lover doesn’t also have the Saturn retro, he or she will be able to move on and see the relationship as a major learning experience…the Saturn retro native may learn a lot about him or herself as well, but the misery that will accompany this learning could last for several years as they slowly come to realize that it was their own inability to love that has created the schism and pushed love away. Those with Saturn energy moving forward in the chart have Saturn (more or less, depending on the rest of the chart) at his best…he is happily creating structure and building up necessary strengths within the personality to shine out into the world. Those with Saturn energy turned inward (retrograde) are building structures within the Self to hide that light…they do not feel safe enough within the world to truly share of the Self…they swallow their ‘children’ (their creations) and keep them in the dark. To many Saturn retro natives, to share of the Self is to risk rejection…and to lose personal power or authority. Saturn, at his worst, is a greedy, fearful, selfish little boy who hogs all the cookies and won’t share…he wants to use the cookies as a bargaining tool and thus keep all the others (the outside threats) in their place. If they do what the Saturn retro native desires, then he might - just might - offer a cookie as a reward. The Saturn retro individual may be very aware of this aspect of the self and yet be unwilling or unable to admit that the child inside needs to grow up and enter the adult world…the only way to grow up, however, to truly develop the Self and to learn about one’s true needs and desires, is through relating.

The relationship with the Father has often played a crucial role in the formation of the strong outer ego shell and the soft, gooey baby that hides inside. The Saturn retro native may have not had a strong father figure in his or her life…the Father may have been absent (in physicality, mentally, or emotionally) and the retro native had to assume a strong protective role in the family…in essence, the Saturn retro individual may have had to father the self or others (siblings or even Mother). The longing for Father may have been made stronger simply because he was not available…or the child may have felt it was his or her fault that Father was not around. In some cases, the child may have blamed the Mother for the absent Father; if so, then trouble with both parents may have left the child not only fulfilling the role of Father but Mother too! The Saturn retro individual likely presented as very mature to outsiders in their teen and early adult years, which only led to more responsibility being heaped upon the seemingly strong shoulders. There wasn’t much room for emotional development…no time for crying and whining, no time to waste on being a child. The praise for being such a strong boy (or girl) reaffirmed the native’s path as an authority figure to others, one who could stand the heat and take charge when needed. Inside, however, inside the child cried out for attention and the Saturn retro individual told it to shut up and get on with life. But the child remains inside, locked up…swallowed by the Saturn retrograde defensive energy and longing to be free, to be loved, to really grow and express the self. Coming face to face with a person who can penetrate the defenses could throw the native into a whole new world, one where the navigation equipment is broken and the ego structure begins to crumble in the light of real love. It isn’t unusual to find a Saturn retro native who married very young only to find that their partner is not truly compatible or fulfilling for their Soul. They married because it was the socially acceptable thing to do, especially if they were having sex with the partner or if the lover expected that they would marry. This is another example of the Saturn retro individual being permeated and influenced by external sources. Eventually the individual will come face to face with a karmic lover or someone who really ‘gets’ them…who understands and accepts their vulnerability and true inner being…and this can happen whether they are married or not. Imagine the intensity of the meeting and the Soul longing of the Saturn retro individual when he (she) faces the one who could be the love of a lifetime only to find that he/she is shackled in a difficult marriage and yet, to do what society expects, he/she must remain with the spouse. To deny the lover and remain with the spouse, no matter how unsuitable, is another expression of how the Saturn retro energy turns inward and destroys (or prevents) the Soul from growing and evolving. By refusing to enter into a passionate love relationship that has the power to penetrate all the ego-defenses, the Saturn retro native denies his/her own Soul’s needs.

To overcome the burdens of the Saturn retrograde in the natal chart means to enter into the inferno…to let the Self feel, to let another person in, to surrender. Let the child be born and make peace with him…let the world crumble. Once the façade has been shattered, the Saturn retro native will realize that what was once feared is truly the path forward into the light…they will no longer desire to build inner defenses, they will instead work to turn the creative power held so tightly within out into the world…to shine the internal light and not hide it. The flames of passionate love may be the only power strong enough to crack the Saturn retro façade…but if they are unaware of this heavy energy working in their lives, they may run from Love when it is upon them…they may continue to shut the child in the closet and to build a personality that will keep others out. Becoming more aware, especially of their childhood difficulties and either their idolization of the Father or their anger toward the parents in general and how it is still affecting their life, is perhaps the most important way to open themselves to others. Surrendering the defenses allows the Saturn retrograde individual to become a shining light of true authority instead of denying life, instead of denying their power to create, to form, and to shape their own world…

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posted August 24, 2008 08:22 PM         

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Saturn Retrograde

29-and-a-half years is the duration of Saturn's average cycle around the Sun, and once a year the planet goes into retrograde for about four-and-a-half months. The transition between the appearance of forward motion into retrograde motion is called the stationary period. During its stationary period, Saturn has the appearance of not moving at all for about eleven or twelve days.

Saturn's effect on Earth slows everything down. This planet in retrograde is a taskmaster: It can make us work with extra effort or it can make us think deeply and contemplate our actions or the world around us. There are no short cuts when Saturn's spin reverses, and one shouldn't consider rushing through long and detailed projects. Take this opportunity to breathe and to do things the right way the first time around. Issues with authority may rise to the forefront; sealing deals and finalizing contracts may be put off longer than you'd like. Deadline extensions are granted and you may find yourself hammering away again at something you thought was complete.

If Saturn is in retrograde in your chart, it's likely that you are constantly in conflict with authority. Either you feel persecuted by those who work above you or you are a person currently mismanaging your power position. Setting limitations and learning the levels to which others may be pushed are matters with which you must take issue. You are afraid of the risk needed to address the powers that be, but the rewards will be great if you can learn to gain more control in this part of your life. Patience will also be a lesson.

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Saturn Retrograde
* feels they're never good enough inside
* indulgent outward behavior may mask inner feelings of inadequacy
* hides fears

Saturn deals with karma, limits, responsibility, tradition, conservatives, authorities, long term goals and accomplishments patiently created, taking responsibility, creating structure, and setting boundaries. Once a year the planet Saturn goes into retrograde for about four-and-a-half months. During this influence, you will probably find it unwise to attempt sudden changes or to rush through things.

Take practical steps and accept limitations while you take serious steps toward your long term goals. Saturn retrograde can cause you to become your own hardest taskmaster, limit your actions or leave you feeling blocked and pessimistic.

Saturn retrograde in your natal chart, indicates that you are likely to have been abused by those with power over you, perhaps having faced unfair situations at home. You may need to declare personal boundaries, to work out conflicts with authority on a karmic scale. You could feel that fate conspires against your desires but it’s really you putting the brakes on through feelings of persecution or inhibition in the house where it is placed until you work out how to face doing or confronting whoever or whatever it is that threatens you. Your lesson is one of patience and steady application of hard work as you overcome the impatient urge to cut corners. Everything you gain will be hard won but you will eventually succeed, win the respect of others and actually can shine where you faced difficulties before.

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posted August 24, 2008 09:05 PM         

Thanks!

posted August 25, 2008 12:52 PM         

Saturn!!! I checked my natal chart and was not surprised to find it retro. Arrrgh! I can relate: intimacy fears plus physically/emotionally absent father. Also checked the charts of people close to me, yes, it totally makes sense.

Zala, thanks! Exactly the kind of info I need now to answer some "questions" in my head.

posted August 25, 2008 03:03 PM         

i'm terrified now. seriously. i have natal saturn retrograde in virgo in the 4th house!!

AAAAAARRGGHH!!

posted August 25, 2008 09:02 PM         

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The fear of not being good enough, not being what is expected, of being weak and vulnerable to others or worse, superseded or totally unneeded by anyone, drives the Soul with Saturn retrograde deeper and deeper into a cocoon of their own making…an isolated and lonely place to be, a stranger in the shadows watching others and wondering why he (or she) feels so horribly alone.

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I think this is me and my Gemmy to a T...

posted August 25, 2008 09:07 PM         

Rx saturn:
* 29 degrees
* Cancer
* 4th house
* opp sun in Aqu
* square chiron in the 1st

and I'm aries rising.

People think I'm freakin' invincible and I'm cowering on the inside!

posted August 26, 2008 11:26 AM         

"Try me folks:"
I try you.

"Rx saturn:
* 29 degrees"
17 degrees - I guess you win this one.

"* Cancer"
Cancer

"* 4th house"
8th house

"* opp sun in Aqu"
exactly quinkunx Moon in Aqua

"* square chiron in the 1st"
square Chiron in 4th

"and I'm aries rising."
Sagittarius rising with Mars on the ASC (but from the 12th house).

Hmm, you win with the 29th degree, I give oyu that, but otherwise, I`d say we have it almost equally bad.

posted August 26, 2008 11:46 AM         

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What IS it then, that makes it possible for other people to break you "shell"? It MUST be possible to get close to you

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I believe it is, and that it's probably through the normal route: showing interest. I don't think any of my good friends feel closed off from me, and I've had most of my friends for years. That's not to say that I've stopped making friends either. I didn't know my girlfriend over two years ago, and she's been a great friend, and I haven't closed myself off from her.

posted August 26, 2008 04:33 PM         

Thank you for posting it, Azalaksh. Actually, you have posted numerous texts or responses with quite uncanny timing (from my perspective). I'm very grateful.

Alvarella

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What IS it then, that makes it possible for other people to break you "shell"?

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People who have gotten close to me are all very comfortable with who they are. No facade, no defenses so I have felt comfortable to let mine down too.

posted August 26, 2008 09:44 PM         

He has:

Venus Retrograde at 29 Gem in 12th
Saturn Retrograde at 27 Sco in 5th
Moon at 16 Cap in 6th

Venus quincunx Saturn

He said he didn't want to hurt me. That I deserved someone better.

Broke my heart.....

posted August 26, 2008 09:45 PM         

I've read similar things about other placements.

Capricorn Moon interpretations sound very similar. Liz Green's Sun/Saturn aspects, repeat the same issues: problems with father figure, unable to build structures, emotionally closed off and so on.

I find them very standardized. I agree that what is being said in itself can be helpful to a person who actually HAS these issues (whether they are Saturn Retro or have Capricorn influence or Sun/Saturn aspects - or not).
But I don't really agree that the issues mentioned are tied to having these aspects in the chart. I just can't see it.

I do actually have all of the above. Sun/Saturn trine. Saturn retrograde. Moon/Mars/Neptune in Capricorn. Sun square Moon.

But my relationship with my family (not only my parents and close relatives but also extended family) has always been great.

I feel slightly offended, because it makes me think - what if they are simply playing on people's insecurities with these interpretations?

I guess there are a bunch of very standard things that a great majority of people would have problems with. Astrologers know that most of their clients are female and that mentioning - relationship issues + father issues - they can't go wrong 90% of the time.

posted August 26, 2008 10:31 PM         

Jeez...I don't even have Saturn retro in my chart and this could be me (except I didn't have an absent father, we were really close)

posted August 26, 2008 11:15 PM         

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I guess there are a bunch of very standard things that a great majority of people would have problems with.

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I agree.

I wonder of all the Saturn retrograde people in here, do you all feel that you close everyone off?

posted August 27, 2008 12:39 AM         

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I guess there are a bunch of very standard things that a great majority of people would have problems with. Astrologers know that most of their clients are female and that mentioning - relationship issues + father issues - they can't go wrong 90% of the time.

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Coral -Well the odd thing is that because of my placements I constantly get asked if my dad was absent or not there for me as a kid and the answer is no! He was my best friend when I was a child (my saturn rx provided me from making friends easily ) and we did everything together. HOWEVER He was the less dominant parent and maybe the more motherly parent, he was very understanding. My mum was very dominant and "masculine". So maybe thats how my anarectic, rx, cancer saturn comes into play.

But you are right, the things that you mentioned are catchcries; maybe it's even people creating or seeing problems in their head when they might not have any.