Author
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Topic: AstroTwin, suicide
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amowls Knowflake Posts: 866 From: Richmond, VA USA Registered: Dec 2007
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posted August 28, 2008 10:24 PM
Today I found out that a childhood friend of mine killed himself the other day. It's shocking, and weird. He had the exact same birthday as me and was born 20 minutes earlier. I looked at his chart and the only differences is that Chiron is in the first house (mine is in the 12th) and his Pluto is in his 6th (mine is in my 5th).Apparently he was into drugs, too. I haven't seen or talked to him in years. I just remembered that he had the same birthday as me, and almost the same time. It's just really weird, because our charts are almost the same, yet he had drug problems and killed himself, and I am not in the least bit suicidal. IP: Logged |
libraschoice7 Knowflake Posts: 2085 From: Arizona Registered: Jul 2006
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posted August 28, 2008 10:37 PM
That must be an awkward feeling since your charts are almost the same ...this is where background and upbringing come into play with situations like this, two people can have the same chart but it all depends on what they have encountered and experienced as to the out look they develop over time within their life...their actions and reactions to circumstances, and how well the can deal with it.------------------ Sun in Libra Moon in Cancer Jupiter in Cancer Venus in Virgo Mars in Cancer Ascendant in Cancer "I was born when she kissed me. I died when she left me. I lived a few weeks while she loved me" IP: Logged |
koiflower Knowflake Posts: 1258 From: Australia Registered: Jun 2008
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posted August 28, 2008 10:45 PM
that's really sad - drugs can rob people in so many ways.IP: Logged |
writesomething Knowflake Posts: 2376 From: meet me in montauk Registered: May 2006
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posted August 28, 2008 11:12 PM
thats crazy...exact time is important for a reason...were u guys born in the same city? like someone else said...upbringing is a big role in how we turn out, did you guys have different upbringings? or were there a lot of similarities? sad to hear this.edited* opps apparently i dont know how to read. sorry for the chiron mixup. IP: Logged |
Marila1313 Knowflake Posts: 117 From: Registered: Aug 2008
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posted August 29, 2008 12:05 AM
This is interesting, I found something interesting though from Cafe Astrology about having pluto in your 6th house: *You can become obsessed with your health, self-improvement and personal development. The psychological elements of disease interest you, and you may endlessly psychoanalyze yourself and others.Also, you may work compulsively and exhaust yourself through overwork. You can be a tyrant with co-workers, and it may be easier for you to work in solitude. ...Maybe he was so obessessed with self-improvement and psychoanalyzing himself that he couldn't take it anymore. I'm sorry to here about this loss. IP: Logged |
Seeing Stars 7.21 Knowflake Posts: 1301 From: New York Registered: Dec 2006
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posted August 29, 2008 12:07 AM
could we see his chart as a whole?
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lovegoblin Knowflake Posts: 608 From: norfolk, virginia USA Registered: May 2006
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posted August 29, 2008 08:48 AM
Maybe chiron in the first was a problem, I have heard that it can be. Was his chiron square to saturn? I have heard this can be an aspect to cause major depression. Of course if he were into drugs, that wouldn't help the depression at all.IP: Logged |
amowls Knowflake Posts: 866 From: Richmond, VA USA Registered: Dec 2007
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posted August 29, 2008 01:44 PM
His Chiron opposes Saturn loosely (6 degrees), as does mine. I don't really have problems with depression.His chart: My Chart for comparison: IP: Logged |
hippichick Knowflake Posts: 2236 From: The Ether Registered: Jan 2006
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posted August 29, 2008 02:13 PM
Just another brillant example of nature vs. nurture and human freewill.His choices with the astrological blueprint and the energies awarded to him in this lifetime were his choices. You chose and still choose to use your energies in a different manner. Sorry to hear about your friend, I, too, have experienced suicide in my life and it is ALWAYS the choice of the soul... IP: Logged |
LadyNeptune Knowflake Posts: 419 From: Registered: Dec 2007
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posted August 29, 2008 02:32 PM
I'm sorry about your friend. It kind of makes you wonder if astrology is just nonsense.
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amowls Knowflake Posts: 866 From: Richmond, VA USA Registered: Dec 2007
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posted August 29, 2008 02:57 PM
LadyNeptune: I don't really wonder about that because there ARE differences in our charts. Like, his MC is in Aquarius, mine is in Pisces, his POF might be in Aquarius, too (and the Pluto & Chiron differences).Plus you would have to look at the charts of his parents and peers to see what kind of environment he lived in. IP: Logged |
LadyNeptune Knowflake Posts: 419 From: Registered: Dec 2007
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posted August 29, 2008 03:17 PM
Yes, you're right.BUT how many people think about that when reading a chart? It's really above any astrologers capability, thus rendering astrology kind of useless. Maybe I'm just in one of those black or white type moods that are so typical of moon/pluto aspects....?
I'm sorry, I'll shut up now, because I don't want to change the subject of this thread. IP: Logged |
darkdreamer Knowflake Posts: 3991 From: Germany Registered: Aug 2006
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posted August 29, 2008 03:47 PM
Amowls,I`m very sorry about your friend. Astrologically speaking the Transpersonal astrology in Germany would observe something like that:
° his Pluto exactly on his 6th house cusp - in this astrological system the 6th house is not only the house of health and work, but more so the house of expressing your emotions and even more so how you modify your emotional expression to adapt to your environment, which can lead to an almost fantatical observation of one`s own feelings and how others react to them. With Pluto here this can get obsessive. Also it can mean that a person expresses their feelings in a very dramatic, uncompromising way; or at the other end he could alsso bottle up his feelings and suppress them, until they explode out of him ° Mars as ruler of 11st house is very close to the DSC - prone to very impulsive actions (Mars on DC) as a tool of liberation (rules 11th house, which also can point to liberation and freedom) ° this Mars also opposes Chiron on the ASC; in extreme cases this could indeed point to someone who is able of impulsively (Mars) hurting (Chiron) himself (AC) (this is just ONE way this aspect can be expressed) (BTW you have Saturn as ruler of 8th house on your DSC - a completely different situation. The 8th likes things, including life, to be longlasting. And Saturn is not prone to impulsive actions).
° Venus, as the ruler of his 12th house is not only placed at the end of a sign, but also at the end of a house - that must feel like being stuck between two doors. I guess it definitely points to emotional stress. But after all is said and analysed, I agree that the soul chooses how she or he expresses the potential (all these constellations could have been expresed differently and in much more healthy ways)
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Lara Knowflake Posts: 3274 From: London Registered: Mar 2006
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posted August 29, 2008 04:27 PM
I'm so sorry amwols. Very sad.As for Pluto in 6th - I have this and although I love to anslyse it would not drive me to destruction of self. I agree that the soul decides how to utilise what it is given. IP: Logged |
darkdreamer Knowflake Posts: 3991 From: Germany Registered: Aug 2006
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posted August 29, 2008 04:58 PM
Do you have Pluto on the 6th cusp, Lara?planets on housecusps are often very dominant and kinda extreme, but in the end it all comes down to personal soul-choice. IP: Logged |
belgz Knowflake Posts: 719 From: sydney Registered: Feb 2007
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posted August 29, 2008 06:59 PM
How can two charts be the same if Chiron and Pluto are in different houses? Firstly his chArt had transit Neptune aspecting nearly all his planets and even his ascendant. Even with the good aspects we feel dreamy and lost.. Maybe he was on drugs when he died I think there's more to itIP: Logged |
EighthMoon Knowflake Posts: 1400 From: Registered: May 2007
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posted August 29, 2008 07:41 PM
Amowls, I'm really sorry to hear about the loss of your friend. I think what jumped out at me was the geometry. Your friend has T Square and air trine while you have a trapezoid. Transiting Pluto is conjunct both of your Saturn/Uranus and square both of your Venus. The geometry may show a difference as to how the energy would flow/effect each of you as individuals. 8th IP: Logged |
Geocosmic Valentine Knowflake Posts: 994 From: New York, NY Registered: Sep 2007
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posted August 29, 2008 07:52 PM
His Ascendant/Descendant Axis has been being bombarded by transiting Pluto recently. Right now the measurement he has is:Pluto = Saturn/Ascendant. That means that Pluto is conjunct his Saturn Ascendant midpoint (I am calling the Descendant the "Ascendant" for now because it is an axis, a circle and it sometimes acts the same). It translates as: "Violent upset; deep anguish; being put down by others." It probably had a whole lot to do with relationships or a particular relationship in his life. Since Saturn rules his 8th house of death and Pluto has been transiting over and over it and Pluto is now sitting almost exactly on his Ascendant/Descendant axis... It was MUCH TOO MUCH pressure, hard work and loss for him to bare. I feel terrible for the guy. Stressful Saturn-Pluto aspects are THE most difficult aspects. There are many people on this forum who have been dealing with Pluto transiting back and forth over their Ascendants over the last year because they have it in the later degrees of Sagittarius. Pluto-Saturn aspects don't always mean death, but it always means very, very hard work and sometimes that hard work just comes to loss, but for some reason you learn the biggest lessons from that aspect when it occurs. You don't always understand it right away, but you eventually do. It's like breaking down muscle before you can build it up again. It really all depends on how your individual chart is set up. I guess I'm trying to say that this doesn't mean that you are going to commit suicide, it is just meant to show you that time of a chart is of tremendous importance and you can now see for yourself why it potentially hasn't affected you the same way. I was friends with a man who's actual twin brother killed himself when they were both 24 years old. His brother was born 15 minutes after he was and he was diagnosed schitzophrenic at the age of 24. He couldn't handle the medication and he stopped taking it. He couldn't handle whatever the illness was doing to him when he stopped taking it and he killed himself shortly after the diagnosis. I'm so sorry to hear about your friend. Geocosmic Valentine Professional Astrologer geocosmicvalentine@yahoo.com . www.myspace.com/geocosmicvalentine ------------------ "Everybody is a star!" Sly & The Family Stone IP: Logged |
23 Knowflake Posts: 4497 From: Outside, to watch the nightfall in the rain Registered: Aug 2006
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posted August 29, 2008 07:52 PM
Yes, I'd like to apologise for my insensitivity for not getting back to this thread earlier. I've been following it and I'm terribly sorry to hear about your friend, amowls. I think LC7 is right though, maybe life experiences come dow to it. I think astrology can only describe so much in the world, there are a lot of other forces in life that create situations so I wouldn't let astrology "worry" you. IP: Logged |
Geocosmic Valentine Knowflake Posts: 994 From: New York, NY Registered: Sep 2007
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posted August 29, 2008 09:55 PM
I agree with 23, that's something very important that I left out in my long diatribe above. Our environment, life experiences and the ultimate-FREE WILL all play a part. IP: Logged |
paisleyutopia2 Knowflake Posts: 33 From: Vibrating everyfreakin'where Registered: Dec 2007
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posted August 29, 2008 11:04 PM
Much love to you amowls....paisleyutopia2IP: Logged |
Seeing Stars 7.21 Knowflake Posts: 1301 From: New York Registered: Dec 2006
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posted August 29, 2008 11:10 PM
well I think the 20 minutes make all the difference. his chiron in the first hous in a bi directional conjunction with his ascendant. did he have any scars on his face or appear like a wounded person? who was holding deep hurt on the inside? Pluto is in the sixth with mars. which is the house of health to malefics in there not the greatest.. with the exception of pluto moving over the DC conjunct saturn.. transiting chiron was conjunct his sun and square pluto. not to mention there seems to be alot of ease in his chart.. so generally with alot of harmonious flows of energy working in the chart makes it harder for these people to deal with rough times. poor guy was only 20. what was he doing with his life at the time of his suicide? going to school? having family problems? sucky job? was there a gf in the picture?IP: Logged |
amowls Knowflake Posts: 866 From: Richmond, VA USA Registered: Dec 2007
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posted August 30, 2008 11:59 AM
Eighth: Actually, I have the same geometry as him (though the Air trine isn't as tight), I just didn't mark "draw aspect lines to all" before saving mine. I think I'll update it now.SS: I'm not sure what he was doing. I don't think he was in school. This has been a difficult time in my life, and his (as evidenced by his suicide). Pluto has been a B*TCH, crossing over our DSCs and squaring our Venuses. Plus the Chiron conjunction with our Sun/Mercury. I think because of the fact that I'm in college has helped a huge deal. I'm sure if I wasn't in school, I'd feel probably what he was feeling. Also, our charts are very college oriented (Sun & Merc in 9th), so the fact that he wasn't in college must've made him feel terrible. IP: Logged |