posted March 01, 2008 07:18 PM              

If both feelings are nurtured by different actions, which would you choose, love or desire?

posted March 01, 2008 08:38 PM              

But I didn't consider that deep love because of the lack of burning passion/desire. That needs to be included in the package for me to be head over heels in love, I know this because it's happening to me right now.

posted March 02, 2008 02:21 AM              

When I was 9, I fell in love with someone I saw in my dream, it was a deep love, a profound love- it had got nothing to do with desire as I was of course oblivious to such at this age.

posted March 02, 2008 04:11 AM            

If you've ever been passionate about getting together with someone, and found that getting together didn't work out at all the way you planned, then hopefully you can see the overall futility of passion. It confuses people. It would be one thing if you could be passionate with the person, and have that be the total extent of the relationship, but in the end true, long-lasting relationships can't survive on passion. Eventually personalities must be taken into consideration, and if it's tough to find friendship with that person's personality, then ultimately it's doomed unless you're stubborn and a glutton for punishment.

quote:

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If both feelings are nurtured by different actions, which would you choose, love or desire?

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posted March 02, 2008 05:26 AM            

For me, strong desire is never just a physical attraction. To want him sexually, I need to want all of him with all of who I am. It probably goes without saying that with criteria like that, I haven't desired many men in my life. I'm naturally very selective (Mars in Virgo). Also, I think I have a relatively high threshold for lust. It's gotta be off the charts before I feel the need to act on it & start a relationship.

posted March 02, 2008 11:29 AM            

Jane, I feel the exact same way...
Capricorn Moon and AC, Virgo Mercury
It would take an extraordinary man to keep my interest for a lifetime.
It is easy to keep my loyalty,
but a challenge to keep my interest.
A man has to change and grow...
attracting and seducing me over and over.
And if I ultimately feel he is disloyal in any way, the attraction lessens and I experience a growing disdain... making it impossible for me to ever truly relax, therefore making the seduction next to impossible.

It's not that I can't forgive a betrayal... but it just takes too much work to earn back my damaged trust. It's hard to love a woman who looks at you with disdain instead of with shining love in her eyes. To me, betrayal, disloyalty, and dishonesty are signs of weakness. I can't admire that, no matter how "attractive" he may be otherwise.

posted March 02, 2008 02:23 PM            

And I kind of expect you to say you weren't actually talking to just me... blah blah blah, though it is clear you are not responding to the initial topic. You also seem to be repeating what I just read on another topic here yesterday that HSC wrote, so maybe you are just repeating what you learned.

So, to assume the best, it seems you are trying to agree with me, with a caveat.
I find that a bit irritating since I have gone over my own behavior in determining if it is the healthiest and most loving to all involved ad nauseam for most of my life so it's quite offensive for someone who doesn't know me to assume I have not considered this. I also was simply sharing, not asking a question, or asking for someone's advice (which would have made all the difference).

So, basically, I'm just letting you know that your comment did not seem caring or understanding to me if that is what you were going for, which is why I have said it is best to limit our conversation. Maybe you were trying to be caring and understanding and it is just our communication issue. The thing is, I thought if I didn't say anything to clear things up, I would carry some irritation and mistrust of you (like I was explaining about my nature and truth) so in the spirit of honesty, I needed to explain, but I can't spend my life explaining to everyone who misunderstands me, or who I misunderstand. It would take all of my time.
So, I think you and I should stick to a more superficial relationship, both refraining from commenting on personal comments that we each make... unless one of us is specifically asking for help or advice. Unless you want to write a page of explanation for every comment you make to me... but I don't have time for all that and you probably don't either.

posted March 02, 2008 02:36 PM              

Perhaps I should state exactly who I mean to address when I dive in with my thoughts and reflections?
Being a Gemini I guess I can rush sometimes and fail to pay attention to these details.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

posted March 02, 2008 02:38 PM            

I should do our synastry sometime and see what's up.

posted March 02, 2008 02:39 PM              

I related what you said with the question in my mind about the issue of true love and desire.....

I've heard it said that love sacrifices, but I also believe that too much sacrifice doesn't always help people.

posted March 02, 2008 02:40 PM              

quote:

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I should do our synastry sometime and see what's up.

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posted March 03, 2008 01:04 AM              

so after 10 years..and I did love this man...
desire still burns, for the both of us. if anything, its stronger than it once was.
we used to joke that we couldn't be in the same room for 15 minutes without clothes coming off.

It used to be so confusing, because I was so in love with him and yet still lusted after him. I always wondered what kind of karma we were working out, because after 11 YEARS one would assume the desire would fade.

Its weird.

posted March 03, 2008 01:44 AM            

quote:

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Besides, just plain love gets tiring after a while, and the excitement begins to wear off, slowly, like any other strong emotion.

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posted March 03, 2008 05:00 AM            

Maybe you can relate to this too. Without that strong desire, I feel like I have too much power in the relationship, like he needs me but I don't need him. I'm uncomfortable with that. That imbalance also makes me feel like I'm giving more than I'm getting from the relationship. If I don't need someone in my life, then fulfilling the demands of a relationship just feels like work to me. Plus, if I'm going to do something, I'm going to (try to) do it well (strong Virgo influence), so I feel like I'm spending all this energy on being a good girlfriend and not getting in return what I need. (Which is to need somebody. )

I experienced all those feelings when in 11th grade I briefly went out with someone who I had warm feelings for. I cared about him and was attracted to him, but not enough. I decided I'm better off being single than with someone I don't strongly desire.

One of the wonderful things about deep, erotic love is that it is energizing and creative. Relationships don't feel like work when they're continually fed by desire. Like AG said, everything gets tiring after a while. But I'd add that the exception is desire, whether that desire is for someone as a friend or as a lover or as both. Desire waxes and wanes, but when it's there, it's exhilarating.

I love many people who I don't sexually desire, but I do desire everyone I love in other ways. They have something in them that I need, something that brings beauty and meaning to my life.

Kim Falconer's writings represent my take on love very well. She's discussing the Eros asteroid, in transit and natally, but you could just interpret the word "eros" as love/desire...

quote:

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...a time when erotic love
and creative power awakens.

When this happens, the intensity of emotions, the sensations of passionate creative desire
and even the experience of falling in love can seem overwhelming. Frequently, there is a
tangible component, an event, which can make the compulsive feelings of love and
creativity merge with the drive for sexual intimacy. In this case, transits involving Eros
may coincide with the appearance of a specific individual that captivates the heart and
enraptures the soul.

Eros functions most wholly through the magical encounters of sudden and often
compulsive erotic intimacy, creative design and poetic expression. These experiences
open us to the world of passion, desire and intense relating that brings a sense of life that
no other occurrence can match. Suddenly, events become more meaningful, colors
enrich, archetypal figures emerge and dreams turn into waking reality. Our link with the
divine, with the desire to live completely and fully without apprehension or constraint,
animates with a voraciousness paralleled only by other extreme events such as birth, or
even death. Such is the nature of erotic love.

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posted March 03, 2008 03:05 PM              

quote:

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Everything gets tiring after a while.

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posted March 03, 2008 06:34 PM            

Thanks for a wonderful response! I recently found the falconer website and I love it too. Lots of great information to read.

"Relationships don't feel like work when they're continuously fed by desire. Like AG said, everything gets tiring after a while. But I'd add that the exception is desire, whether that desire is for someone as a friend or as a lover or as both. Desire waxes and wanes, but when it's there, it's exhilarating."

Love that!!!! !!!!

neptune, I think you are exactly right too, it takes absence (of whatever) to experience desire (for it). Nice thread

posted March 04, 2008 05:17 AM            

This thread has helped me get a better understanding of my attitude toward love relationships. I've realized that the reason the lighter levels of attraction didn't interest me is because they weren't what I'm here for. It's like my "To Do" list for love listed: Learn to trust; love completely. And I couldn't really learn to trust if the man was someone who I didn't feel like I needed. There needs to be fear and risk before one needs to trust. Only a man I deeply love could make me feel the agony that comes with the fear of losing him and/or being betrayed by him. And only trust, in him and in life, could help me move past that fear. So those lighter attractions bored me b/c they didn't have the lessons I needed to learn. Well, not so much "bored" me, as they just didn't feel like they were for me.

My chart reflects this, but I'll resist listing the details.

posted March 05, 2008 12:19 AM            

I'm not sure I agree with this (quote below),
but I'm not sure I completely disagree either. I might be picking at your phrasing or we might really have different views on it, I haven't decided/figured it out yet.

quote:

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Only a man I deeply love could make me feel the agony that comes with the fear of losing him and/or being betrayed by him. And only trust, in him and in life, could help me move past that fear. So those lighter attractions bored me b/c they didn't have the lessons I needed to learn.

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I think I used to feel this way and now I don't need it anymore. It reminds me of Carrie (Sex in the City) and the stomach flip thing. I think that you fear loss and betrayal the more you don't trust the relationship (which is sort of what you are saying about moving past it, but there is a difference in what I am thinking). I know I experienced agony a great deal in my past relationships and I think it was because I knew deep down that it would not last and I would be betrayed. The more I've learned to have peace in what is and to actually try to look at what really IS, the more the fear seems to be a game I play with myself... to be invoked when it serves my own mental, emotional and spiritual "play".
Play as in theatre AND as in existential fun.

But the fear seems unreal. And that is what I want. That is what I ultimately want.

I don't know... weird mood. I agree with the "didn't have the lessons" part... or at least the level of lessons, or better... quality of lessons you desire.

posted March 05, 2008 02:58 AM            

I completely agree that the more you don't trust the relationship, the more you'll fear loss and betrayal. But you first need to want the relationship to last before the thought of it ending causes fear.

It's like how in those cheesy trust exercises, you have to start falling backwards to give the other person the opportunity to catch you. If you don't start to fall, you'll never experience those moments when you're trusting that the other person will catch you b/c there's never a moment when you're in danger of being hurt. And with most people in life, I don't fall. I just stand there.

So in my case, I need to first feel like I need the person in my life before I'll fear them ever not being in my life.

Maybe I should back up and explain my insane personality a little more. I have all my planets on the left side of my chart, which means that I'm self-contained. And I am. I'm comfortable on my own. Also, I'm a Sag and am probably abnormally accepting of other people's freedom. I don't want them to behave in a way other than what is natural for them. So with most guys, the thought of them wanting to leave me or even them cheating on me doesn't upset me much, b/c they're just being who they are. Yes, it would hurt my Leo Moon pride, but it wouldn't be emotionally devastating.

But with someone who I deeply love who acts like he loves me too, I want to believe that the love we share is real. Just believing that he feels the same requires trust. I also want the relationship to last, and believing that he wants the same also requires trust. And believing him when he says he'll be faithful requires trust.

These are all things I want from him, and b/c I want them and am at his mercy for him to deliver them, I have to trust him in order not to go crazy over the mere anxiety of possible betrayal.

And not only do I need to trust him, but I need to trust in life. I need to believe that even if things don't work out the way I want them to, that it's for the best because it's what is true. And ultimately I do value truth above all things, and will make the most of whatever that truth ends up being.