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Author Topic:   grand cross and anger issues?
DivineRAiN
Knowflake

Posts: 5
From: Detroit, MI
Registered: Jun 2010

posted July 17, 2010 01:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DivineRAiN     Edit/Delete Message
a friend of mine is having a hard time with her youngest daughter, Ash.. she thinks that because of her daughter's extreme mood swings she is probably bi-polar. My friend did try to get her daughter help once, but it was like a hair-pulling experience because as she put it, her daughter manipulated the dr into believing she was the one who actually needed the help. Since my interest in astrology is coming back to me, I looked up the daughter's chart... but, I don't know much about aspects when I look at a chart to really explain how the aspects affects her daughter. So I was wondering if someone here could share what he/she sees in this chart.

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Lioness
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Registered: Mar 2010

posted July 17, 2010 01:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lioness     Edit/Delete Message
You know I think its more of the Aries Asc and inmaturity.

I have Aries Asc and Also Cap MC at 0 degree's. I havent been feeling anger..

My dughter has the same Asc and MC but at 8 degree's. She is anger all the time and impatient.

I was the same way when I was in my teen years (but again who wasnt) That Aries asc is really something that you have to learn to control, which comes with time..
I sure did give my mom one hell of a time...

I had the attitude, you cant tell me what to do, and I would go charging and with full on steam. No one or nothing could stand in my way, from what I wanted or what I wanted to do.. I did what ever I felt like.

My daughter is the same way, she charges at me demanding things... I put her straight letting her know its not acceptable.. Yeah battles ensue... LOL

It took me many years to learn that charging at people doesnt work. It was just a natural reaction with out thinking.. I'm assuming she will learn also one day. She will mellow out... But yeah it's a battle until that person learns..

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Diana
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Registered: May 2009

posted July 17, 2010 01:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Diana     Edit/Delete Message
From the looks of the chart, it looks like the mom is no angel and baits her. Moon critical opposite sun/mars -- in the 12th of undoing, no less... Either way, she will do better when she gets away from the mom. She probably wants to, with t. uranus on her AC and especially ura and jup on her moon. I get the feeling the mom is threatened she wants to be independent now.

This is a dysfunctional relationship between mother and daughter for sure.

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enchantress299
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posted July 17, 2010 01:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for enchantress299     Edit/Delete Message
It is partially the immaturity of the Aries Asc, but she's also got Aries Moon opposing Mars. That is a pretty big indication of anger issues in my opinion. She has to learn how to balance out her reactions to things. The Aries Moon is going to make her act impulsively when she gets angry and she's not going to think twice about it.

I have noticed though, that the grand cross CAN help to balance things out. It does one of two things: it either acts as a cap for the emotions (for people who are unaware of their own motivations) and eventually that emotional tension has to explode out somewhere, OR the individual (who is more self-aware) can learn how to work with the energy and combine the energies into positive actions.

I've known a couple of people with grand crosses in their charts and they often seem that they have emotional turmoil under the surface, and they HAVE used it destructively at least at one point in their lives. However, I have the utmost respect for them because they usually are the people who have faced really huge external challenges (ie challenges not in their power to control) and they usually come out the other end with a huge respect for other people and a great patience for the challenges of life. This is after they are adults of course.

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Geocosmic* Valentine
Knowflake

Posts: 698
From: New York, NY
Registered: Apr 2009

posted July 17, 2010 05:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Geocosmic* Valentine     Edit/Delete Message
Hello DivineRAIN,

This young woman's chart looks like she has endured a tremendous amount of torture throughout her life at the hands of both of her parents. My opinion is that she's lucky to have her anger. Anger is our first line of self-defense and it's incredibly important.

The Grand Square of Moon-Jupiter-Mars-Uranus is the first suggestion of her tremendous rage-a-holism. Then the fact that her tremendously stressed Mars rules her ASC suggests that she is identified by her anger, this is what she shows to the world.

At first glance I look at her MC and wonder about her father. It looks like she had to deal with insanity, control, possibly substance abuse and abusive anger/violence.

I don't want to assume too much without feedback from you, but if she has been exhibiting angry behavior, it might not be that she's bi-polar, it might just be that she's finally expressing the anger at everything she's had to deal with all her life.

One thing that may need to be investigated is the strong possibility of sexual abuse beginning at a very early age with her. Natal Mars semi-squares natal Pluto. Natal Pluto rules her 8th House of Sexuality.

I'm sure she definitely needs help, I'm just not sure it should be coming from her mother, she probably needs to get help on her own. She probably needs to get away from her family of origin and begin a life-long healing process.

Please respond and let me know if any of this rings true.

------------------
Geocosmic Valentine
Professional Astrologer
. www.myspace.com/geocosmicvalentine
geocosmicvalentine@yahoo.com

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Geocosmic* Valentine
Knowflake

Posts: 698
From: New York, NY
Registered: Apr 2009

posted July 17, 2010 05:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Geocosmic* Valentine     Edit/Delete Message
One more thing, DivineRAIN.

It's not clear to me what you mean when you wrote that Ash manipulated the doctor into thinking the SHE was the one who needed help.

In that sentence who does SHE represent? The mother or the doctor?

I'm assuming that SHE is the mother. In that instance I think the doctor was correct. It happens quite frequently that when children need psychological help, it's never only the child. The parents always figure prominently in the child's scenario and most parents (people in general) don't believe that they need any help. Well...it's a sad fact that it usually is the parents who need the help.

Ash will be 21 in September and she was probably a teenager when he mother tried to get her some help "once". Well, it's probably time again, especially since transiting Saturn, Uranus and Pluto are all stronly relating to Ash's chart in a huge way. This is HUGE!! I pray she gets the compassionate help she desperately needs.

------------------
Geocosmic Valentine
Professional Astrologer
. www.myspace.com/geocosmicvalentine
geocosmicvalentine@yahoo.com

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Musette
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posted July 17, 2010 05:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Musette     Edit/Delete Message
Latent emotions are a common issue for twelfth house moon people. The fourth house is a very difficult place for Chiron as well. I really feel for Ash and I hope that she does find a circle of friends whom she can adopt as a family - or who adopt her as their family - because that can help her spiritually heal (north node in Aquarius in the twelfth house shows the direction she will move in to find fulfillment).

Something I don't understand in previous responses is the reference to Aries as an "immature" sign. I've never found Aries to be more or less mature than any other sign.

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Geocosmic* Valentine
Knowflake

Posts: 698
From: New York, NY
Registered: Apr 2009

posted July 17, 2010 05:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Geocosmic* Valentine     Edit/Delete Message
I agree with you, Musette, about Aries not being anymore immature or mature than other signs. I think all of the people who have that experience need to look at more of their chart. What aspects are affecting the ASC or the ASC ruler and what planets might be in their 1st House, etc. It's never just the Sun sign.

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DivineRAiN
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From: Detroit, MI
Registered: Jun 2010

posted July 17, 2010 11:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DivineRAiN     Edit/Delete Message
she, as in the Mother was the one who needed the help.

When I met this family, Ash was around 10 or 11 years old. Her father was just released on probation and they just got a house down the street. His sister lives 2 doors down from me, so I heard about his substance abuse.. drinking, drugs, also the physical abuse towards his wife. And how the wife would leave him and would always go back to him.
When I met Ash's father, he was clean and wanted to settle down. But with his sister living down the street, and wife n kids who loved drama, there was a feud that went on for years.
Whenever he tried to set limits for his kids, and tried to discipline them, the Mother would raise all kinds of hell.. she felt he was being too strict and unreasonable. So what ended up happening is the children ran the household. They went home whenever they wanted to go home, they'd go to school whenever they felt like going. And when her son would get into criminal trouble, she bails him out. And if anybody went to her house to complain about her son going into their garage, she would tell them to get off her property or she would call the police. If you had problems with her kids, you quickly learned not to go to the Mother, she didn't want to hear it. The father wasn't allowed to have any authority over them.. not only because of the Mother, but the kids would threaten him with his parole which is something they learned from the Mother, I think. She probably did the same thing to him. He gave up.
The Mother and 3 of their younger kids moved out.. but they were older by then, Ash was about 15 and she's the baby of the family. The Father stayed down the street, he couldn't stand the drama and stress. Him and his wife actually got along better when they didn't live together.
His brother moved on the block.. he was someone you had to keep away from your little girls. The brother went on a nut, wanting to kill Ash's brother. Ash's Mother was flipping out.. she has a tendency to over-dramatize everything, but she was on mark with this one. One of her daughters was yelling at her n threatened to push her off the porch if she didn't shut up, her uncle wasn't going to do anything. My Ma called n told her to get over here, that someone was shot. I drove her here n she found out it was her husband, and by his own brother. They tried to keep Ash's father alive, but his injuries were too severe.
All the kids have their issues with their Mother, but Ashley goes beyond just anger. Ashley has stabbed her Father, cut one of her sisters, stabbed her boyfriend and he ended up in the hospital with serious injuries. She has called the police on herself, and had them come n take her out of her Mother's house coz she was to the point she was either going to kill her Mom or herself. And with her, the trigger isn't always known. She can be talking n laughing with her Mother and the next moment she's telling her Mom to pleeeease shut up, I'm aggravated, pleease leave me alone. N of course this sets off her Mother so they end up going back n forth, n you can see the Mother is a bit annoyed and is just arguing just to be arguing, but Ash is quickly getting to the point where she wants to physically hurt her Mother. She'll leave the room, n her Mother will still go on and on.
But I have to admit, Ash's Mother has had me to the point where I wanted to knock some sense into her once. My daughter stupidly had a baby with Ash's brother, so Ash's Mother is the paternal grandmother... and that has caused some friction early on. Connie threatened to get her son to take custody of my grandbaby.. that just incited my scorpio moon which ended that so-called conversation real quick. It takes a lot to incite my emotions like that, but she was talking to the wrong person.

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Geocosmic* Valentine
Knowflake

Posts: 698
From: New York, NY
Registered: Apr 2009

posted July 18, 2010 12:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Geocosmic* Valentine     Edit/Delete Message
Hello DivineRAIN,

All that you have explained here is not a surprise when I look at this chart. The violence, drama and brutality are all reflected in the chart.

Keeping the focus on Ash I want to remind you that with astrology: Planets do nothing, people do.

Ash will have to decide for herself what kind of life she wants to live and she is old enough to go out on her own.

What I find fascinating is that you begin her story with her father being let off on probation. You never say whether her father was in prison and what he was imprisoned for. I don't really want to know, but when a story begins that way and then you take all blame off of the father and heap it on the mother and children, something needs to be re-thought. But even that's getting too detailed.

I wish this young woman luck and hopefully the current power transiting T-Square will help to propel her out of the toxic situation that is her family and push her onto better horizons.

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DivineRAiN
Knowflake

Posts: 5
From: Detroit, MI
Registered: Jun 2010

posted July 18, 2010 09:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DivineRAiN     Edit/Delete Message
Nick was in prison for a non-violent crime, I don't remember what it was.. whether drugs or breaking n entering. The Mother wasn't one who would press charges against him. She never admits to being physically abused by him, and I won't ever press the matter with her. I don't know what sort of karma they were battling out in this lifetime, I try to remember it isn't my place to judge. A bit late, he did turn himself around, he stayed clean. It took a long time for the kids to connect with him, to trust him, eventually they all did before he was shot. He named Ash's baby girl, Serenity after the prayer. It still hurts her deeply that he never saw her daughter. Her brother John shares this.. Nick was killed before knowing John would become a dad a month after Ash had her baby.
When you said that her MC makes u wonder about her father, that she had to deal with insanity, control, substance abuse, anger/violence.. she did have to deal with all of that.

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Lioness
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Posts: 344
From:
Registered: Mar 2010

posted July 18, 2010 09:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lioness     Edit/Delete Message
@ Geo... I have the MC Cap and I didnt have to deal with that she had to deal with insanity, control, substance abuse, anger/violence..

What Cap Mc was for me was simply growing up with out a father... Plus I am an only child. It was just be and my mom..

My daughter also has the Cap MC and I dont drink or do any drugs at all.. And again she grew up w/o her father also...
she was an only child until the age of 10..

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Geocosmic* Valentine
Knowflake

Posts: 698
From: New York, NY
Registered: Apr 2009

posted July 18, 2010 10:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Geocosmic* Valentine     Edit/Delete Message
Hello Lioness,

It's not just the fact that she has a Capricorn Midheaven, it's the relationship all of those planets make to her MC. Even if her MC wasn't Capricorn but all of those planets lined up the same way to that MC, no matter what sign, she would experience the same thing.

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