posted November 02, 2016 06:44 AM            

Synchronicity seems to come into it a lot because even when I was doing projects I'd find little objects to do with the project. Like really strange items and it kept happening which could have been because my mind was on the subject or because I'd got to an emotional place.

I think any direction towards bad ego has curtailed creativity - materialism, status etc. When that's not there, it's been better. Also when I've just got over a relationship - it's not that pain is necessary more that in those moments I've let go of wanting something. So a process of making things with no investment in outcome can be helpful.

This article might be interesting to you
www.astro.com/info/in_wounding_e.htm

posted November 02, 2016 08:43 AM            

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Originally posted by florence:
Ive Chiron conj sun & not felt confident creatively. But there have been times I am and it's unstoppable. It took me a while to get to that stage but when I did, it was so worth it. Then of course, that went and there were a series of external things that shook me up and honestly it feels like were shaking me back off a main road. I'm thinking of that Chiron bridge, synchronicity.

Synchronicity seems to come into it a lot because even when I was doing projects I'd find little objects to do with the project. Like really strange items and it kept happening which could have been because my mind was on the subject or because I'd got to an emotional place.

I think any direction towards bad ego has curtailed creativity - materialism, status etc. When that's not there, it's been better. Also when I've just got over a relationship - it's not that pain is necessary more that in those moments I've let go of wanting something. So a process of making things with no investment in outcome can be helpful.

This article might be interesting to you
www.astro.com/info/in_wounding_e.htm

I think the wound will probably be felt along the way a few times but there's definitely potential to be very creative. A thing I've found is I'm best with simple materials whether words, drawing materials or whatever. It stops me trying to be something consciously and tunes more into that creative force.

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I do a lot of oil painting and have this perfectionistic streak in me that wants to be the very best I can be. I guess that is what you mean by the ego getting in the way: my desire to be seen as a talented, successful artist.

I like what you said about synchronicity. When you are at one with yourself, that is when all the positive forces will come together. I will keep that in mind. It's going to be difficult though, because I have my NN in Capricorn conjuncting my Midheaven. The need for success is in my veins. :P

posted November 02, 2016 09:08 AM            

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Originally posted by Koniucha:
I think maybe you have to look at the aspects other planets make to Chiron to help heal it. I also have Chiron in my 5th house.

I am starting to believe that I am creative, just afraid to show it.

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I have it only in a wide 8 degree opposition to Saturn and it trines my Ascendant. Also some asteroid aspects where it conjuncts Pholus and opposes Ceres.

posted November 02, 2016 09:56 AM            

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Originally posted by moongaze:
I think I am pretty creative, but I have this bad habit of comparing myself to others who I deem much more exceptionally talented than me. Lately I've been trying to stop doing that and it's been going well. I have this tendency to be really hard on myself as well as it being very difficult to showcase my artwork to other people. It's always been an insecurity of mine.

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Ugh, I know exactly what you mean. I do this all the time and believed it was rooted in my Mars-Saturn opposition mostly. I'm making a song and I then hear something made by someone else and feel like I can't make anything worthwhile.

The only way out of this is to believe in your own creative potential and disregard what other are doing with their music. Your music is yours and you should take pride in that

posted November 02, 2016 10:35 AM            

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Originally posted by Electro DGX:
Ugh, I know exactly what you mean. I do this all the time and believed it was rooted in my Mars-Saturn opposition mostly. I'm making a song and I then hear something made by someone else and feel like I can't make anything worthwhile.

The only way out of this is to believe in your own creative potential and disregard what other are doing with their music. Your music is yours and you should take pride in that

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posted November 02, 2016 10:40 AM            

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Originally posted by moongaze:
Glad you can relate. It's probably just a natural human condition where we compare ourselves in hopes that we can become something better. Some of my favorite musicians and artists are not necessarily the most virtuoso are artistically inclined, but they have a special quality in them that stands out and makes them better than other cookie cutter artists. My ego just gets in the way of wanting to be as perfect as possible. Probably also a combination of my Aries Ascendant and 1st house Mars too. The whole if you're not first, you're last mentality.

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Mars in Scorpio here in the first and I feel the exact same way. I have to be the best, and if I'm not the best then I'm nothing. Also have Aries Saturn too.

Now though, I don't care as much. I've accepted it for now, but I know that I can be as good and be even better than they are at some point

posted November 02, 2016 10:45 AM            

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Originally posted by DopGang:
Hmmm..

I feel very similar and yet my Chiron is not in the 5th.

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posted November 02, 2016 10:52 AM            

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Originally posted by Electro DGX:
Mars in Scorpio here in the first and I feel the exact same way. I have to be the best, and if I'm not the best then I'm nothing. Also have Aries Saturn too.

Now though, I don't care as much. I've accepted it for now, but I know that I can be as good and be even better than they are at some point

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posted November 02, 2016 07:14 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by moongaze:
I do a lot of oil painting and have this perfectionistic streak in me that wants to be the very best I can be. I guess that is what you mean by the ego getting in the way: my desire to be seen as a talented, successful artist.

I like what you said about synchronicity. When you are at one with yourself, that is when all the positive forces will come together. I will keep that in mind. It's going to be difficult though, because I have my NN in Capricorn conjuncting my Midheaven. The need for success is in my veins. :P

And thanks for the link. I will check it out.

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I'm a little unsure if Chiron comes after or before Saturn now but if it's after it seems perfect for that battle between realism/perfection/Saturn/serious and imagination/intuition/Neptune/escapism. I've had a battle between wanting to do something perfect and on the otherhand go with the flow and also, I'm wondering if you are painting to the standards of being realistic. Either way it seems like that wrestle could be chironic in itself. Sometimes I have to imagine that no one will ever see what I'm doing so I can pursue my own joy as opposed to others appreciation. But ... I sometimes need that potential audience for motivation

Saturn conj Leo mc here - I can understand that difficulty some.

I scanned that article and it does have about a paragraph specifically to do with Chiron in Leo, 5th.

posted November 02, 2016 09:21 PM            

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Originally posted by florence:
I'm a little unsure if Chiron comes after or before Saturn now but if it's after it seems perfect for that battle between realism/perfection/Saturn/serious and imagination/intuition/Neptune/escapism. I've had a battle between wanting to do something perfect and on the otherhand go with the flow and also, I'm wondering if you are painting to the standards of being realistic. Either way it seems like that wrestle could be chironic in itself. Sometimes I have to imagine that no one will ever see what I'm doing so I can pursue my own joy as opposed to others appreciation. But ... I sometimes need that potential audience for motivation

Saturn conj Leo mc here - I can understand that difficulty some.

I scanned that article and it does have about a paragraph specifically to do with Chiron in Leo, 5th.

Also that helps me understand how synchronicity and Chiron work, through creativity, because that's like a battle between controlled concepts of time/space, a certain realism and letting go of those concepts and going with the imagination. Chiron and the creative process and synchronicity contract between the two.

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My Chiron comes before Saturn and Neptune. I still struggle with wanting something to look very realistic, yet have something to it that makes it unique. I don't want it to look like an exact photograph because I like surrealism and fantasy, something that alters reality into something else.

I have read the section in the article about the man who had his Sun conjuncting Chiron in Leo in the 5th. My Sun doesn't conjunct Chiron, but my Ascendant trines it, so I'm sure it's not as awful as having a Sun/Chiron conjunction, but I could still relate to this part:

"but everything he produces is always too long, too short, too dense, or too incomprehensible, or the themes he chooses to write about are in some way politically incorrect and offensive to some specific group the publisher has reason to fear. Behind these failures in the outer world lies self-sabotage, and behind the self-sabotage lies a deep conviction that he is worth nothing, that he is stupid and inarticulate, and that if ever he does get a work into print it will be mocked, criticised, and dismissed as worthless."

Art was always my best subject in school, and I hate to toot my own horn, but I was always one of the better students in each of my classes. (I was pretty average in every other subject). However, many of my art teachers would always criticize a lot of what I did, but one in particular would nitpick every little thing I did wrong, like if one of the proportions was a little off, or even the way I was doing something was 'incorrect' in her view. So I've always feared other people would end up criticizing me as well if I didn't make things as perfect as possible. Meanwhile, there was another girl in the class who was very good too (pretty much considered my arch rival :P) but my professor NEVER criticized her work ever. It always boggled my mind. My professor even had the nerve to show other students what I did wrong on one particular exercise and wanted their confirmation that I was inept, but each of the students said it looked fine to them and didn't understand what she was talking about. Yet I looked up her work and she wasn't a 'perfect' artist either, so until this day I still don't know why she was so hard on me. I just keep telling myself that art is subjective and that some of the greats like Van Gogh and Picasso were criticized as well for being bold and different. I only had one teacher really believe in me, that he would one day see my work in a museum some day, so I haven't lost all hope yet.

posted November 03, 2016 08:59 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by moongaze:
My Chiron comes before Saturn and Neptune. I still struggle with wanting something to look very realistic, yet have something to it that makes it unique. I don't want it to look like an exact photograph because I like surrealism and fantasy, something that alters reality into something else.

I have read the section in the article about the man who had his Sun conjuncting Chiron in Leo in the 5th. My Sun doesn't conjunct Chiron, but my Ascendant trines it, so I'm sure it's not as awful as having a Sun/Chiron conjunction, but I could still relate to this part:

"but everything he produces is always too long, too short, too dense, or too incomprehensible, or the themes he chooses to write about are in some way politically incorrect and offensive to some specific group the publisher has reason to fear. Behind these failures in the outer world lies self-sabotage, and behind the self-sabotage lies a deep conviction that he is worth nothing, that he is stupid and inarticulate, and that if ever he does get a work into print it will be mocked, criticised, and dismissed as worthless."

Art was always my best subject in school, and I hate to toot my own horn, but I was always one of the better students in each of my classes. (I was pretty average in every other subject). However, many of my art teachers would always criticize a lot of what I did, but one in particular would nitpick every little thing I did wrong, like if one of the proportions was a little off, or even the way I was doing something was 'incorrect' in her view. So I've always feared other people would end up criticizing me as well if I didn't make things as perfect as possible. Meanwhile, there was another girl in the class who was very good too (pretty much considered my arch rival :P) but my professor NEVER criticized her work ever. It always boggled my mind. My professor even had the nerve to show other students what I did wrong on one particular exercise and wanted their confirmation that I was inept, but each of the students said it looked fine to them and didn't understand what she was talking about. Yet I looked up her work and she wasn't a 'perfect' artist either, so until this day I still don't know why she was so hard on me. I just keep telling myself that art is subjective and that some of the greats like Van Gogh and Picasso were criticized as well for being bold and different. I only had one teacher really believe in me, that he would one day see my work in a museum some day, so I haven't lost all hope yet.

Recently I have been trying a different method, 'a letting go' process, by trying to paint something abstract without any outside references, something I very rarely do. I just count on my imagination to make something and build from there. I have so far come up with some really intriguing ideas. It's actually a lot more freeing in some ways too, where my mind can just meditate and stop focusing so much on perfecting every detail in that moment for once. I think my synchronicity senses are starting to kick in. :P

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I meant Chiron in its placement in order - physical and symbolic, moving to the outer planets. I think it is after saturn.

Yes - the sabotage part of the article sounded like something that could be relevant. I wonder if that's an impulse of Chiron like in the myth.

I did fine art and that presented different constraints that helped me actually work technically better because it was trying to evoke an idea or mood or impression ... took the emphasis off being realistic, which gave me more confidence once that wasn't the goal. But a lot of people, including myself lacked a lot of technical proficiency which bothered me so I tried to learn that separately. But I do really like more expressive - it's such a pull in different directions. I wish I could have concentrated on painting earlier though as that's such a good foundation to have.

I would really recommend looking up fine art exercises for just that balance and mental massaging. Not to do with technical skills but for instance ... Drawing anything on as many sheets of paper in a limited amount of time. It's amazing what sparks can come from it.

There was an experiment a teacher did where he separated students into A and B. A had to produce as many pots as they could over a week. B had to produce just one. It turned out As were far better because they just racked them up without thinking about perfection

posted November 04, 2016 07:57 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by florence:
I meant Chiron in its placement in order - physical and symbolic, moving to the outer planets. I think it is after saturn.

Yes - the sabotage part of the article sounded like something that could be relevant. I wonder if that's an impulse of Chiron like in the myth.

I did fine art and that presented different constraints that helped me actually work technically better because it was trying to evoke an idea or mood or impression ... took the emphasis off being realistic, which gave me more confidence once that wasn't the goal. But a lot of people, including myself lacked a lot of technical proficiency which bothered me so I tried to learn that separately. But I do really like more expressive - it's such a pull in different directions. I wish I could have concentrated on painting earlier though as that's such a good foundation to have.

I would really recommend looking up fine art exercises for just that balance and mental massaging. Not to do with technical skills but for instance ... Drawing anything on as many sheets of paper in a limited amount of time. It's amazing what sparks can come from it.

There was an experiment a teacher did where he separated students into A and B. A had to produce as many pots as they could over a week. B had to produce just one. It turned out As were far better because they just racked them up without thinking about perfection

A lot of artists seem to get obsessive with what they like .. Those compulsions seem to be the core of their work so guess it's just a matter of settling into the right one.

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Yes it is definitely after then. On Pullen's chart, my Saturn shows up as my most dominant planet.

I agree that art doesn't necessarily have to be realistic in order to be considered great. I never used to get abstract art when I was younger, but now I have a much greater appreciation for it. There is such wondrous feeling and mystique that is expressed in something not seen as tangible in real life.

It's true that obsessive tendencies are prominent within the artistic realm. I think it's also because the art field is so competitive to the point where many artists feel a need to make something seen as highly exceptional in order to 'make it' in the industry. 

posted November 04, 2016 08:32 PM            

I'm still not sure what it means.

I do have a pretty full live in terms of fun and creativity. When I was a kid I used to paint, draw, run, scream, etc so I'm not sure where my creativity was thwarted as the interpretations say?

Maybe it manifested as a broken heart early in childhood because I've had plenty of those unfortunately.

I'm curious about Chiron in this house also.

posted November 05, 2016 06:54 AM            

There is some disagreement on what Chiron represents in the natal chart; some say "wound" and others say "healing abilities"

Chiron also has its link to alternative medicines and forms of healing that are outside the ambit of what may be deemed as "mainstream".

I have Chiron in Taurus that forms a very wide opposition to my Venus in Scorpio.

In relationships I tend to look for physical affection with a partner a lot i.e kissing, touching, rubbing, hugging etc.

Their body is "mine" as much as mine is "theirs" etc. To adore,caress, hold and feel whenever and wherever they feel like.

I think Chiron may emphasize the feeling of "not enough" in the chart. So one can go looking to fill that cup throughout their life.

My sister has Chiron-Mars in conjunction in Gemini. And she feels a need to voice her opinions and she can talk excessively.

I as a Chiron Taurus-Venus Scorp opposition person, can feel like I don't get enough of love and sex. There is a preoccupation with sex especially and some latent inhibitions there too(Saturn in Scorpio).

Can one ever "heal"? Well, I think of it like trying to empty the Atlantic ocean using a teaspoon.

posted November 05, 2016 10:44 AM            

Uranus backing up over that conjunction (in 9h) has brought on AMAZING healing for me from very old wounds associated with past relationships that were terribly toxic and emotionally traumatizing.

I see an energy healer who practices Shamanism, and she is amazing. This has all come about with Uranus backing up over my Chiron/Juno conjunction.

As for the placement in my 9h, I suspect I'll find ways of dealing with some of those hurts at some point, probably with some help of an outer planet, lol. Until then, the house placement seems pretty minor compared to the conjunction and the stress it has caused throughout my life.

I was able to help others by working in women's homeless shelters, group homes, etc. but wasn't quite able to heal my own wounds from the past, and I repeated their theme many times.

When Chiron transited over my Sun, I had my son and went to therapy for a year with another energy healer. She was also awesome, but mostly a really great therapist with some reiki abilities. It helped a lot, though. I worked out a lot of bad stuff I had soaked up from my mom that I didn't want to pass on to my own children.

Chiron transits and transits to the natal Chiron can be magical healing times, and propel us into getting help from another person when we're not able to do the healing ourselves.

Otherwise, I feel like he's just sort of sitting there, somewhat unnoticed, until it's time for us to dig deeper and understand our more hidden pains.

posted November 05, 2016 11:01 AM            

So...I'm not really sure how people work with their Chiron placements, other than by just dealing with them and moving on until it's time for the healing to begin. And maybe living vicariously through other people, lol.