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Catalina
Knowflake

Posts: 1085
From: shamballa
Registered: Aug 2013

posted December 30, 2013 12:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Because I know he likes this sort of thing and posts them from time to time, though you know his are from a different viewpoint. I reckon this one is at least as genuine as his, which is to say possibly not very...!
http://www.salon.com/2013/12/28/why_i_fled_libertarianism_and_became_a_liberal/

The night before the 2008 Nevada Republican convention, the Ron Paul delegates all met at a Reno high school. Although I’d called myself a libertarian for almost my entire adult life, it was my first exposure to the wider movement.

And boy, was it a circus. Many members of the group were obsessed with the gold standard, the Kennedy assassination and the Fed. Although Libertarians believe government is incompetent, many of them subscribe to the most fringe conspiracy theories imaginable. Airplanes are poisoning America with chemicals (chemtrails) or the moon landings were faked. Nothing was too far out. A great many of them really think that 9-11 was an inside job. Even while basking in the electoral mainstream, the movement was overflowing with obvious hokum.

During the meeting, a Ron Paul staffer, a smart and charismatic young woman, gave a tip to the group for the upcoming convention.

“Dress normal,” she said. “Wear suits, and don’t bring signs or flags. Don’t talk about conspiracy theories. Just fit in.” Her advice was the kind you might hear given to an insane uncle at Thanksgiving.

Then next day, I ran into that same operative at the convention, and I complimented her because Ron Paul delegates were being accepted into the crowd. I added, “We‘re going to win this thing.”

“Bring in the clowns,” she said, and smiled before I lost her in the mass of people.

I will never forget that moment: Bring in the clowns. At the time, I considered myself a thoughtful person, yet I could hardly claim to be one if you judged me by the company I kept. The young lady knew something I had not yet learned: most of our supporters were totally ******* nuts.

I came by my own libertarian sensibilities honestly. I grew up in a mining town that produced gold, silver and copper; but above all, Battle Mountain, Nev. made libertarians. Raised on 40-acre square of brown sage brush and dead earth, we burned our own garbage and fired guns in the back yard.

After leaving my small town upbringing, I learned that libertarians are made for lots of reasons, like reading the bad fiction of Ayn Rand or perhaps the passable writing of Robert Heinlein. In my experience, most seemed to be poor, white and undereducated. They were contortionists, justifying the excesses of the capitalist elite, despite being victims if libertarian politics succeed.

If you think that selfishness and cruelty are fantastic personal traits, you might be a libertarian. In the movement no one will ever call you an assh0le , but rather, say you believe in radical individualism.

Yet I don’t want to gloss over the good things about libertarians. They are generally supportive of the gay community, completely behind marijuana legalization and are often against ill-considered foreign wars, but a few good ideas don’t make up for some spectacularly bad ones. Their saving grace is a complete lack of organizational ability, which is why they are always trying to take over the Republican Party, rather than create a party of their own.

The Ron Paul delegates were able to take over the Nevada convention in 2008, howling, screeching and grinding it to a painful halt. I was part of the mob, and once we took over, we were unable to get anything done. The national delegates were appointed in secret later.

The Republican convention didn’t turn me off of libertarians, but I started losing respect for the movement while watching the financial meltdown. Libertarians were (rightly) furious when our government bailed out the banks, but they fought hardest against help for ordinary Americans. They hated unemployment insurance and reduced school lunches. I used to say similar things, but in such a catastrophic recession isn’t the government supposed to help? Isn’t that the lesson of the Great Depression?

Through all the turmoil, the presidential election went ahead. Although I didn’t vote for him, I wept when Barack Obama took the oath of office in early 2009. They were tears of bewilderment, joy, pride and hope, despite the fact that I did everything within my own limited power to keep the moment from ever happening.

From the ashes of the election rose the movement that pushed me from convinced libertarian into bunny-hugging liberal. The Tea Party monster forever tainted the words freedom and libertarian for me. The rise of the Tea Party made me want to puke, and my nausea is now a chronic condition.

There are a lot of libertarians in the Tea Party, but there are also a lot of repugnant, religious nuts and intolerant racists. “Birthers” found a comfy home among 9-11 conspiracy people and other crackpots. After only a few months, I had absolutely no desire to ever be linked to this group of people.

As evidence, I offer the most repugnant example of many complaints. I’ve heard the n-word used in casual conversation from people I would never expect. Some people might not believe it or think I’m playing the race card, but I’m not. I’ve heard the word more than I care to admit and more often in the run-up to the 2012 election. Perhaps because I’m a big, fat and bald white guy with a mean goatee, racists think I’m on board with them. I am not, and I’m ashamed to admit that my cowardice at confronting this ugliness makes me complicit.

During Obama’s first term, I also went to graduate school for creative writing at progressive college, and I settled into my marriage with my wife, a Canadian and “******* liberal.” I can’t point to just one thing that pushed me left, but in Obama’s first term I had a change of heart, moving from a lifelong extreme into the bosom of conventional liberalism.

I began to think about real people, like my neighbors and people less lucky than me. Did I want those people to starve to death? I care about children, even poor ones. I love the National Park system. The best parts of the America I love are our communities. My libertarian friends might call me a ******* commie (they have) or a ***** , but extreme selfishness is just so isolating and cruel. Libertarianism is unnatural, and the size of the federal government is almost irrelevant. The real question is: what does society need and how do we pay for it?

A month before the 2012 election, I changed my party affiliation to Democrat. I am a very late bloomer, that it took me so many decades to develop my own values. I was thirty-nine.

I don’t think regular Americans have any idea just how crazy libertarians can be. The only human corollary I can offer is unquestioning religious fervor, and hell yeah, I used to be a true believer. Libertarians think they own the word “freedom,” but it’s a word that often obfuscates more than enlightens. If you believe the Johann Wolfgang von Goethe quote “None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free,” then libertarians live in a prison of their own ideology.

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Catalina
Knowflake

Posts: 1085
From: shamballa
Registered: Aug 2013

posted December 30, 2013 01:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oh...dear.

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PixieJane
Moderator

Posts: 3559
From: CA
Registered: Oct 2010

posted December 31, 2013 03:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My experience with libertarians were very different...some things up there I can relate to but other parts were so different (even opposite) or...questionable...I can't help but feel a bit skeptical. It actually sounds like what someone who was Democrat would imagine libertarians to be like that was only partially true at best and barely even understood. (Just to be clear I don't associate with the Libertarian Party in any way...though I'm a fan of a few within it, and I'm also making the distinction between the LP and "small-l libertarians.")

Maybe I'll share my own experiences when I'm less tired but I should be getting to bed.

Though for now I thought I'd throw out that I've found far more liberals who believed 9/11 was an inside job than libertarians (libertarians tend to believe it's a problem of government incompetence and bad gun laws that allowed it to happen as opposed to a conspiracy). Rosie O'Donnell (liberal who hoped for a Clinton-Obama ticket to vote for in 2008) was an example of someone who made a big deal out of it, too. But maybe Alex Jones has convinced many libertarians of it since I pretty much stopped associating with them (but that would be after 2008-9 so that would probably be after he stopped associating with them, too).

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 6874
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted December 31, 2013 09:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Pixie-Jane has it right. The views expressed by this leftist moron about Libertarians are not to be found as part of Libertarian thought.

He's just another pompous leftist airhead posing as something he's not, never was and isn't intelligent enough to ever be.

This is the face of a Small Brained Primate with an oversized mouth.

Where else would you expect to see Lyngar other than among other Small Brained Primates at Saloon Magazine or MSNBC?

But, leave it to the usual suspects and O'Bomber Kool-Aid swillers to find the intellect challenged morons, elevate them to icon status and post their nonsense here.

If rational people want get a feel for what Libertarians think about government, the ecomony, foreign affairs, culture, etc., they could begin their search with John Stossel.

Of course, usual suspects could have saved some embarrassment by at least running a cursory check to see if Lyngar the Moron even knows what a Libertarian is.
http://townhall.com/columnists/johnstossel/2013/11/13/the-libertarian-era-n1745437

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Catalina
Knowflake

Posts: 1085
From: shamballa
Registered: Aug 2013

posted December 31, 2013 11:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Did you read my OP? Apparently not...

Not the least embarrassed since as i said
"i reckon this is at least as genuine" as the mirror pieces you post from time to time purportedly from former "loyal democrats/leftists" who have seen the light.

"which is to say, possibly NOT VERY" (genuine, that is)

Still, amusing, though I agree with PJ its laid on a bit thick in places.

Happy New Year, maybe your sense of humour will make a comeback!?!

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Ami Anne
Moderator

Posts: 51000
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010

posted December 31, 2013 11:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Pixie-Jane has it right. The views expressed by this leftist moron about Libertarians are not to be found as part of Libertarian thought.

He's just another pompous leftist airhead posing as something he's not, never was and isn't intelligent enough to ever be.

This is the face of a Small Brained Primate with an oversized mouth.

Ha Ha

Say it loud. Say it proud, Brother.


------------------
Want To Ask Any Question About Bible Prophecy? Go For it. It is Free, of course.


http://www.mychristianpsychic.com/

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PixieJane
Moderator

Posts: 3559
From: CA
Registered: Oct 2010

posted December 31, 2013 05:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Glad I don't have to explain it. Upon a second reading I am 100% convinced this guy is willfully lying about ever having been a libertarian at all.

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 6874
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted December 31, 2013 05:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"i reckon this is at least as genuine" as the mirror pieces you post from time to time purportedly from former "loyal democrats/leftists" who have seen the light."..Catalin/katatonic

Except....I very seldom ever do. But when I do, I make sure the "former leftist" was really a leftist who spouted leftist nonsense and not someone like Lyngar who was never a Libertarian and doesn't even understand the basic tenets of Libertarian positions. He demonstrated he is clueless about Libertarians. He's just another lying poser.

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Ami Anne
Moderator

Posts: 51000
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010

posted December 31, 2013 05:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"i reckon this is at least as genuine" as the mirror pieces you post from time to time purportedly from former "loyal democrats/leftists" who have seen the light."..Catalin/katatonic


NO COMMENT

------------------
Want To Ask Any Question About Bible Prophecy? Go For it. It is Free, of course.


http://www.mychristianpsychic.com/

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Catalina
Knowflake

Posts: 1085
From: shamballa
Registered: Aug 2013

posted January 09, 2014 03:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for emphasizing my point Ami! The fact is the audience is seeing thru the bs, even John Boehner is fed up despite the river of checks flowing his way.

This piece is a spoof on those "very rare" posts of jwhop's ... not sure wht he had to defend himself against nonexistent charges...I don't care how many there have been, they are still distortions.

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 6874
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted January 09, 2014 10:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Lyngar wasn't spoofing anything. This leftist twit was simply lying through his teeth about Libertarian theories of good government.

I understand the usual suspects and O'Bomber Kool-Aid drinkers get a tingle up their legs when one of their leftist twits misrepresents their self and lies through their teeth about the left's political enemies.

Simply disgusting.

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Catalina
Knowflake

Posts: 1085
From: shamballa
Registered: Aug 2013

posted January 09, 2014 10:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I realize it's more fun to dish it than take it, Jwhop. Don't take it so hard.

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 6874
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted January 09, 2014 11:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't know what the hell you mean Catalina/katatonic. Do you know what you mean?

Lyngar is simply lying about Libertarians and misrepresenting their views.

It's that simple.

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