posted September 16, 2009 12:12 PM         

not a minute too soon! if you want to be cynical he may not have done even this much if it weren't for spain and other international pressures/pending investigations into our breaking international law regarding treatment of prisoners.

posted September 16, 2009 09:08 PM         

After that criminal investigation, they can open another criminal investigation of Kommander Korruption for turning over US military secrets on missile and nuclear weapons technology to Communist China...in return for campaign contributions.

Hey, there are dozens of possible criminal acts committed by Kommander Korruption the A-hole Holder can investigate.

Then, Holder can start investigating the O'Bomber administration and the Federal Reserve to find out where those TRILLIONS of dollars of TARP funds went and in whose pockets it wound up.

Oh wait, Holder and O'Bomber only want to investigate Bush.

But, what goes around, comes around and I think it would be best not to get caught up in venting your hatred at Bush or the CIA who were following orders. Those orders were produced after very experienced attorneys reviewed the procedures to be used and found them to not be against US or international law.

Those who are hyperventilating should know or should find out that terrorists do not meet any of the requirements for "prisoners of war" and they are not subject to Geneva Conventions dealing with "prisoners of war".

Besides, waterboarding is not torture.

If waterboarding is torture then O'Bomber..as Commander in Chief should be impeached, convicted, thrown out of the White House, indicted, prosecuted, convicted and put in prison.

posted September 17, 2009 01:37 AM         

no one is venting hatred at bush. or hyperventilating. you have used that word several times tonight, is it a new'un?

we were just discussing the fact that this has come up - and not just here at home but abroad. other people signed those international treaties, too.

fact is dear old america has come to a watershed moment and all sides have done some dirty deeds, in fact the whole way business is done in government is a mass of dirty deeds. most of them tell themselves it is necessary to get their hands dirty to do the good work. THE END JUSTIFIES THE MEANS. JUST FOLLOWING ORDERS. where have i heard it all before??

posted September 17, 2009 10:56 AM         

Let the Spanish run their goofy leftist show trial(s).

They have no jurisdiction over US citizens. Bush made sure of that when he refused to sign on to the World Court or any other venue which would permit foreign courts to sit in judgment of US citizens.

The exception would be US citizens who are in a foreign country and break that nations laws.

I notice you failed to speak to the main thrust of your own argument; which if you don't know what that might be, consider you are now informed. It's torture by water boarding.

For leftists everywhere.

If water boarding is torture then your maximum "Dear Leader", THE ONE, THE MESSIAH O'Bomber is guilty as hell for the torture of US military personnel who are routinely water boarded as a military training exercise.
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=23220

Any one up to talking about that?

posted September 17, 2009 11:12 AM         

This is your thread katatonic.

The least you could do is speak logically, rationally and reasonably to the subject you brought up here...voluntarily.

posted September 17, 2009 04:35 PM         

You don't get it both ways with me katatonic.

Either waterboarding IS torture and O'Bomber is guilty as hell for continuing the practice of waterboarding US military personnel as a training exercise OR...

..waterboarding is not torture and O'Bomber and the A-hole Eric Holder and the rest of the leftist morons in Congress should drop the issue.

Which way do you want to go with this katatonic? I notice you thought it was that Holder was going to open an investigation.

posted September 18, 2009 11:42 AM         

and once again, waterboarding is but one facet of the whole ugly scenario.

however i see your logic...it was okay to waterboard someone 183 times for info, so it was okay for bush et al to treat the soldiers to a taste.

does anyone threaten soldiers with electric drills, raping their wives or children...?

posted September 18, 2009 12:14 PM         

Obama is merely a cult of personality, much like Stalin, Hitler or Mao. Very dangerous, this vague "Change" business.

Why would you assume I gave into the hype with Obama jwop, or believed an overly vague word he said? Especially after I stated that I find both sides, left AND right, to be utter BS, in any western country.

From the other post btw, of course China's government has a terrible humans right record and very restrictive, draconian laws that I speak out against!

posted September 18, 2009 01:20 PM         

What you're suggesting is that if US military personnel are stretched on the rack...it's somehow different if done to a terrorist.

Bullshiiit.

Now, are you ready to say waterboarding IS torture...or not? Because if you say waterboarding is torture then O'Bomber is guilty as hell.

posted September 20, 2009 04:57 PM         

"ducking" is "ducking" no matter who or how, too. but ducking your little brother in water for fun is not the same as what was done to salem witches in the witch trials.

same goes for waterboarding. for training and information to your own kind does NOT equal what you do 183 times with violence to the enemy. one is torture, one is training.

posted September 21, 2009 12:04 AM         

But for the Bush administration lawyers, the absence of widely documented lingering mental and physical effects in the purely voluntary SERE training course was enough to satisfy the prohibition against "lasting mental harm" outlined in antitorture conventions and domestic U.S. law. "Although there are obvious differences between training exercises and actual interrogations, the fact that the United States uses similar techniques on its own troops for training purposes strongly suggests that these techniques are not categorically beyond the pale," one memo says.

But there too, the memos acknowledge problems with comparing the results of the SERE training to the interrogation of suspects who could not be certain whether their lives were in peril. "SERE training does not involve repeated applications of the waterboard," one memo notes.

...

Another key difference between the CIA program and the SERE training is that SERE students are not subjected to the combined use of the CIA's techniques, which included forced nudity, extended dietary manipulation, forced stress positions, sleep deprivation, and other techniques "which are intended to 'create a state of learned helplessness,' " according to the memos.

This combination of techniques did raise some internal concerns, according to the memos, but the lawyers eventually concluded that with "the interrogation team's diligent monitoring of the effects of combining interrogation techniques, interrogators would not reasonably expect that the combined use of the interrogation methods under consideration, subject to the conditions and safeguards set forth here...would result in severe physical or mental pain or suffering."

posted September 21, 2009 07:03 AM         

Torture isn't torture...if it's done to an American.

Armed bank robbery isn't armed bank robbery...if the armed bank robber robs the same bank in which they have savings and checking accounts. Then, it's an unscheduled withdrawal of funds.

Adultery isn't Adultery...if it's friendly sex between sexual couples who are married to someone else. Being friends makes adultery something else.

Murder isn't murder if...only family members are deliberately, intentionally killed. Being it's a family member who's deliberately killed makes it something else...perhaps an honor killing...but definitely not murder.

So, I get it now. How could I have been so stupid. An act committed in different circumstances or to certain select groups or individuals may be called whatever leftists want to call it.

If water boarding is torture, then O'Bomber is guilty as hell of torture, should be prosecuted and put in prison.

There's not one shred of proof the water boarding is in any way different or performed differently on US military personnel verses terrorists.

posted September 21, 2009 11:05 AM         

Since you continue to insist water boarding IS torture, then it follows as naturally as day follows night...that O'Bomber is complicit in the torture of US military personnel and that he should be prosecuted, convicted and imprisoned for his crime(s). Each instance of water boarding of US military personnel is a separate chargeable offense.

It's an even worse offense for O'Bomber acoustic. O'Bomber SAYS he believes water boarding in torture...but continues the practice anyway.

At least Bush, the CIA and the panel of attorneys who vetted water boarding don't believe water boarding is torture....so, even if they were wrong...and they're not wrong...but if they were, their crime would be far less than the "Believer" O'Bomber...who believes it is...but does it anyway.

There's the intent to to commit a crime...if water boarding is torture.