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Author Topic:   Questions for Donna
Venus
unregistered
posted November 16, 2002 06:18 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Donna

Cat suggested that I refer this one to you.

I can't seem to find much info. on Chiron.
Could you tell me please:

Does it have any relevance in a Synastry? And if so What interpretation would you put on an exact conjunction between Chiron and Venus? It's in Pisces if that has any relevance.

Hoping you can help
Venus


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Carlo
unregistered
posted November 16, 2002 06:45 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
here try this in the interim:

http://www.mooncatsastrology.com/webpages/chiron.htm

sry to post here...

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Donna
unregistered
posted November 16, 2002 06:51 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Venus,

I feel Chiron is very important in synastry and an exact conjunction of Venus/Chiron is considered a MAGIcal linkage. This is a strong karmic link. It is both a Romance and a Cinderella linkage. This means it combines destinies, it is the strongest of all linkages and gives almost mystical influences and creates enduring bonds.

A little more info on Chiron---

Chiron was the first of four bodies discovered so far with similar orbits and properties. These bodies have been designated Centaurs, after the race of half-man/half-horse beings from Greek mythology, in recognition of their dual comet/asteroid nature. (Chiron is named after the wisest of the Centaurs, the tutor of Achilles and Hercules.) It is believed that the Centaurs may be objects which have escaped from the Kuiper belt, a disk of objects orbiting beyond Neptune
Chiron is a comet-like asteroid that orbits the Sun between Saturn and Neptune.

quote:
"Chiron the centaur differed from his common centaur brothers and is featured in Greek legends as a philosopher, poet, and historian. So worthy was he, that when Hercules accidentally shot him with a poisoned arrow, he gave up his immortality to Prometheus. As a reward for his unselfishness Zeus put him in the sky as the constellation Sagittarius."

- from The Magical History of the Horse
by Janet Farrar Virginia Russell

Chiron is very important because it is the planet that rules marriage, spouses, soulmates and karmic ties, according
to The Magi Society.

Their link:

http://www.magiastrology.com/

For more reading, a link to their site about
bonds of marriage. They have some Chiron info there.

http://www.magicalmarriage.com/index.html

Hope this helped a little.

Donna

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Venus
unregistered
posted November 17, 2002 06:02 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi

Carlos, thanks for the link.

Donna, thanks very much for your prompt reply and the links. I am going to check these out.

You didn't help a little, you helped a lot. Like I said I tried to find info. myself, but didn't have much luck.

Venus

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Oxychick
unregistered
posted November 17, 2002 10:35 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This may be a stupid question...

but when you talk about conjunctions in synastry, do you mean looking at the signs the planets are in, or the houses? (obviously, I am a rookie) For instance, this guy that I have been involved with has his Chiron 5 degrees Taurus in the 7th house. My Venus is 5 degrees Capricorn in the 7th house. since they're both 5 degrees in the 7th house, is that a conjunction? or should i be looking at the signs?

sorry to be a pain.

------------------
"What lies behind us and lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
-Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Donna
unregistered
posted November 17, 2002 01:05 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Venus

Oxychick, to be a conjunction it would be in the same sign. It could be an out of sign conjunction if one planet is in late degrees of a sign and the other is in early degrees of the next sign, depending on what range of orb is used. Some astrologers use a 10 degree orb, some use only a 3 degree orb. What you have is a trine between his Chiron and your Venus because they are 120 degrees apart.

Now, this trine is considered to be a linkage and is a Cinderella Linkage or Romance Linkage and is indicative of of a strong, enduring bond. It is a pretty powerful one. Check out the links above, they have some good graphics explaining the geometry between planets in signs.

Donna

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Carlo
unregistered
posted November 17, 2002 01:43 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Donna,

Does Magi Astrology see other sources - besides the gods and goddesses and traditional mythology and those stories - as possessing certain additional characteristics that explain a planet better? Is much of it based on sacred geometry? Does it use magic, as it is traditionally defined (working with energy to effect a desired change, etc)? Is the software pretty cool? I am just reading about it now, I didn't know much about Magi

oh wait, I'm on the 7 lessons now...

Bright Blessings,
Carlo

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Alena
unregistered
posted November 17, 2002 03:00 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've read the Magi Society's interpretation of this. I wonder about it's accuracy. I myself have an exact conjunction of my Venus (Aries) with someone's Chiron in synastry. It's one of tightest aspects in our synastry chart. I had asked this question on another forum as well. The answer that I received was that the Venus person may soothe the wounds of the Chiron person. The Chiron person may not be comfortable with this either. It may bring old wounds out in the open they are not ready to deal with. The Chiron person may also in some way wound the Venus person. Again, this is just another interpretation of the scenario. It depends on the individuals involved and the rest of the chart. In my case it was not smooth sailing but we also had some harsh (and I mean harsh-LOL)Saturn aspects that were killing the deal. I will say this. I do believe this is one karmic aspect. There should be more info on Chiron in synastry.

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proxieme
unregistered
posted November 17, 2002 03:24 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What if an individual's Chiron & Venus conjunct?
(Venus - 7Tau4'8''
Chiron - 10Tau30'36)

Thanks,
Corri

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Donna
unregistered
posted November 18, 2002 01:22 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Carlo, The Magi Society uses geometry as their basis. They use empiricism to base their findings. They never make a statement unless they can back it, nor do they do anything unless the aspects are favorable. They lean toward the Judeo-Christian which actually doesn't conflict with my Pagan witch beliefs. Their book Magi Astrology:The Key to Success in Love and Money goes into the Babylonian background. Their software is wonderful. As a member, of course, I get to view the Member's Only section and they give lessons and explain things in greater detail.

Alena, having a linkage, which is an enhancement angle (oh, I know, their lingo!! it took me a long time to get it ) between Venus and Chiron is one of the Romance Linkages. But, it alone will not make the relationship, especially if there are Turbulant aspects with Saturn which creates a Clash. Every relationship has its good and bad characteristics, mainly because every relationship has Linkages and Clashes. And a good linkage does not cancel out a bad clash. But they can be overcome, and this has to do whether the transits are focusing on the linkage or the clash and how evolved the couple is when faced with a focus on the clash. To the Magi, Chiron is the arrow that points to your soulmate. It's symbolism is emotional ties, marriage, the family, spouses, children. It signifies karmic bonds and intuitive trust. It represents reincarnation, life, death and is symbolic of the future. I am no longer convinced of Chiron as the wounded healer related to his myth. No, from all the charts I have seen, Chiron is a bond of love. But, then love is healing!!

Corri, that is a Romance Linkage, the Cinderella Linkage, one of love.

Donna

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Carlo
unregistered
posted November 18, 2002 11:07 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oh thanks Donna Yes, we all come from the Goddess, and to her we shall return Blessed Be!

I like sacred geometry. I think Saturn is a divine source of measure. Here, check out Ben Pietsch's website. He is an Aquarian gentleman, late seventies, still spry as a chicken, breathing that fabulous Napa Valley air. He once bunked with Rob Hand at a conference in the 70s, and is the sharpest Aquarian I think I have ever known and probably ever will. I have a feeling you'll be able to relate to his work...

http://www.sonic.net/bernard/

I link to it from my links page, I don't know if anyone has seen it:

http://lovestarz.com/links.html

maybe I can add a link to Magi, it sounds fabulous, I have no idea why I haven't heard about it. I guess I've been plugged into NCGR and more modern interpretations.

Did you know that D. Cunningham also is the webmistress for this site:

http://www.essences.com/vibration/backindex.html

she and her pals write articles for it, it's really nice too I just do my stuff on my site. I also host other people's decent work and scholarship. Anyways, happy Moon Day, my dear Pagan sister!!!

and now a very Aquarian poem for you...

And now the Book emerges
From the long and distant Time
And everyone that reads shall declare,
This is Mine.

And that shall be the truth of it.

Writ in Stone and Art and Song
Passion into form and then reside
Measured upon this Spirited Earth
Harmonize with the message inside.

This measured Heart
Shall regenerate the Soul,
For those who may have faltered
A start toward becoming whole.

Take your impulsed spirit
Express the neighbored word
Call the distant citizen
Your exhortation must be heard!

Let them know, the one - the all
We are recharged and heartened
The time is now, and now is Love
We are committed, we are one!

Hope which is brightened into deed
And love spent, but not from need
The Truth we always knew is now formed
No longer that saddened heart shall be mourned.

The praises impel us to a promised state.
And the Being expands at a rapid rate.
We join in chorus, and sing the World Song
We've been empty and apart for much too long.

~ Bernard Pietsch, Our Ancient Monuments, October 26, 1984

oh and Corri, Kim RG, who has done some great work (and a book) on Chiron for years now, might tell you that a Venus-Chiron conjunction would be less fortunate, since she herself has a Moon-Chiron conjunction that she bemoans. Yet I see her as a decent source for Chiron info. Here is a quote from her book I recommended to you:

"Now, I have Chiron right next to my Moon, so he's been Following Me Home for a very long time, in a variety of disguises. In fact, as long as I can remember - even before Chiron and I were formally introduced - I've had a thing for animals - Special Animals. "Wounded" ones, with Special needs. Three-legged dogs, one-eyed dogs, birds with one foot, cats with no tails. Animals that have Ch-ironic illnesses, too. I don't go after them, either - they just arrive with their collars and their bowls or That Look on their faces. Since my Moon is in pretty delicate shape to start with, I used to think that was all there was to that.

"Then I noticed that Chiron was nestled just a few degrees away from the Moon, and I knew immediately that I had something there. Once I made the initial connection between Chiron/Moon and my rather unusual 'kids', I went to Jerry Lewis' chart...it was In There, just like it had to be. Big Time, too. Another conjunction: Chiron at 26 Aries, Moon at 0 Taurus. Perfect for dealing with Special Kids. That's what I was looking for. Since then, I've found example after example of Chiron's potency in charts, and he's always there, always right where you'd expect him to be."

Since Chiron seems to denote where we are symbolically "wounded" in our chart, where we ache the most, where we have recurring pain, I would say that a Venus-Chiron conjunction, in a pretty nice, affable, Venus-foster-ruled, yet possessive sign, might make for someone who has to learn the lesson of letting go and for whom it may cause a great deal of pain to do so in her relationships. And possibly someone who has a time of making her love life click, always seems to have issues or feel or act "wounded" in intimacies, possibly scaring people away with that conjunction alone. Kim RG, who has no Water planets and only Venus in Cap for Earth, might be able to comment better on Venus in Earth conjunct Chiron. Yet these are my feelings...could be and likely is more challenging than not...it'd be almost like a Venus-Saturn conjunction. We all know people with those...never an easy love life, right?

Donna, what does the general Magi classification you gave for that aspect mean beyond that?

BB,
Carlo

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proxieme
unregistered
posted November 18, 2002 12:07 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Donna -
???

How can a person have a Cinderalla/Romance linkage w/ themself?

Corri

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Alena
unregistered
posted November 18, 2002 12:58 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Donna, I like your take on Venus/Chiron in synastry. I do think this linkage between my friend and I was strong and that's one of things that kept it together. I did read what the Magi Society says about it. Maybe they are correct. This is what killed us though: His chart has Saturn opposite Mars, mine Mercury opposite Mars. My Mercury is conjunct his Saturn and my Mars is conjunct his. Now if you throw a transit of Pluto on top of the Mars (exact conjunction)and throw Saturn on the Merc/Saturn conjunction you have what I would say is ugly LOL I'm sure you can picture it. I appreciate all your info.

PS- I loved your post about karma

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Donna
unregistered
posted November 18, 2002 01:55 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Corri, whoops!! I read it too fast!! As a personal aspect it is considered a Super Aspect, a Romance Aspect. Meaning charismatic beauty, love of family and marriage, strong marriage and family orientation, love for the metaphysical, a career involved with making money. The native is almost always in love with being in love and therefore always needs to be in a love relationship, resulting in a tendency to fall in love too easily.

Carlo, love that poem!! I have 5 planets in Leo in the 9th. I love anything about books and love. Regarding the linkage, it helps the linked persons in anything that they do as a pair. The Magi write it this way, COMBINED DESTINIES (with all caps) as it greatly improves the chances of marriage with the linked person. Chiron's symbolism according to the Magi is rulership over emotional ties, family, children and money (because it signifies your earning power). It governs fertility and pregnancies and the act of giving birth to children. They have many pages in their book devoted to Chiron, they feel it is very important. Chiron linked to the Moon signifies a strong desire for marriage and children. It also signifies someone who is highly intuitive and resourceful.

Yeah, I love sacred geometry also, have you been to Bruce Rawles site? My favorite is the big star in the middle of his page.
http://www.intent.com/sg/

Oh, one more thing, I got interested in The Magi Society when they published their book
Astrology Really Works back in 1995.

Donna

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Donna
unregistered
posted November 18, 2002 02:07 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Alena, Yes, those Saturn Clashes can invade the love bond. If you go to their link on Celebrity Lovers at the top of their page, they give great details about why the relationships didn't work, or the ones that did.

Donna

PS Thanks!!!

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proxieme
unregistered
posted November 19, 2002 08:35 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Donna! (and I peeked-in on Carlo's above post, too)

Oy. I have some problems, then.

And then that Venus and Chiron action is placed in my 7th House.
And I have a strong 10th.
Ah ha. ha ha. ha.
It's kinda funny.

Perhaps I was acting in the right when I had avoided "relationships", and I'm back there now that I've sworn off of them again.

Grrr. Relationships. Grrr.

I'm not done.
>more venom spewed out at relationships<
venomvenomvenomvenomvenomvenomvenomvenomvenom

I dunno...some more mean and nasty stuff. Rawwwr, I hate relationships - boo to people in general. Boooooo, booooooooo I say.

Not very convincing, but that's about all I can muster. They are my sentiments, though...no more being knocked around fer me.
(Heh, heh, you won't have Dick Nixon to kick around anymore)
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaah.

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proxieme
unregistered
posted November 19, 2002 12:32 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
OK, I just had to get that out;
sometimes the only way to express something is to mock yourself while doing so (b/c you realize how silly the whole thing is).

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