posted July 14, 2003 09:36 PM              

<cross eyes>

Gotta laugh, huh?

posted July 15, 2003 06:30 AM              

saturn is no friend of mine... but i understand his purpose. he is the father, right? the way i see it, no wonder he can be hard on us. imagine if you had children. you loved these children very much, and tried to teach them as well as you could. but no, they kept making the same mistakes, then running back to you to whine about how bad life is when they refused to follow your advice. id be stern too! heck, id be downright mad!

saturn just does whatever he can to help us evolve. hes the planet of karma, remember?

i dont like it much either... but theres gotta be balance... and i dont wanna go through this again in my next life. so im gonna try to master it and listen to him this time round. maybe next time ill get a nice saturn in libra or something

posted July 15, 2003 08:13 AM              

But yes...I do see the lessons and am "trying" to get my girls to make the most of it by focusing on what they CAN do...like working on their room a little at a time so we can do the painting we've been talking about forever.

posted July 15, 2003 01:42 PM              

*sigh*

posted July 16, 2003 03:18 AM              

how about this?
saturn's squaring my moon for 2 and a half years, right in the heels of opposing my sun and venus for the same length of time from gemini.

posted July 16, 2003 05:03 AM              

your way.....
what's with you and saturn?

posted July 16, 2003 06:19 AM              

cat- i know that the transits to saturn are hard to deal with, and more often than not are responsible for a lot of pain within us... but wouldnt that be the transits fault? i think sat in libra would be one of the better signs for him to be. i surely wouldnt want him in cap, even though he rules it and is comfortable there. ew the thought gives me the shivers. just so unyielding, i cant imagine that would be a placing that would be a blessing.

heidi, im sorry that saturn is giving you such grief. i know how it feels and i sympathise.

i knew a pisces with strong aries who knew a bit of astrology, and he said that he deleted saturn from his chart. i dont know how or what manner of software he used to do this, but he literally deleted saturn. i could not BELIEVE that! it is NOT wise to ignore saturn! i pity that persons next incarnation, if he doesnt one day face up to the lessons saturn is trying to teach him.

we all quake and tremble when saturn is mentioned, and sometimes its very understandable, but we cannot let fear or distaste rule us. saturn is a part of every one of our charts, some placings are harder than others. as i said though, he is the father, he is a stern teacher, but still a teacher. if we are not open to learning what he is trying to tell us, then we are only making it harder on ourselves. im no martyr, but i am realistic enough to see that theres no escaping lessons we have to learn. the irony is that once we accept the fact that we have to do these lessons to evolve as people, and we honestly work on them, they are not as difficult to handle, at least in my personal experience. honestly, even though its hard, we are far better off accepting his limitations, because sometimes they really are in our best interest. saturn doesnt give us difficulties out of cruelty, he does it to help us GROW. if you wanna look at cruelty and needless suffering, theres other planets/signs that will provide enough of that for us, if we want to look at them negatively.

if you dont believe in reincarnation, then that might not apply. but if you do, and *i* do, very strongly, then its part of accepting reincarnation. we often think in such concrete terms as in 'why does he make me suffer, why is he placing these obstacles in my life' etc. that is a statement that can ONLY accept the theory that we have just one life, by virtue of its structure. if we truly believe that we have more than one, then we would know that there is a *reason*, no matter that we might not 'remember' why we have to learn it. we obviously did not learn what we were supposed to in our last live/s. so, papa saturn puts the pressure on, because he is the father figure in a chart and i cannot believe that he wants us to fail. what father would? but like ive said before too, any father (or mother for that matter) would be very tired of having to 'rescue' his/her children yet again after they failed to recognize the benefits of duty and responsibility, and would eventually cut those children off to learn their lessons the hard way. sometimes its the only way people will learn. tough love, anyone?

i believe that saturn tries to let us learn things on our own, but in past lives, when we have frittered our energies away, it culminates in his saying 'fine, i wont help you anymore, ill let you face everything with no support from me if thats what you need to learn'. i know its very strange and definitely beyond the current trend of astrologers for me to see saturn as someone who is not awful. i just understand what it would be like to be him, altogether too much. sometimes i sympathise with him, but being a libra sun sag asc i tend to root for the underdog a lot.

i might be a little optimistic about saturn, but heck, its my birthright. perhaps thats something that i *need* to do in this life.

my natal saturn hasnt been a blessing. true, its in taurus, which is ruled by venus but its also part of a grand trine with mars and venus. honestly, its been hell. where i notice the effects a LOT is in the realm of medical astro. mars and sat seem to war within my body a lot, and i suffer. however, i will end this post with this anecdote-

a few weeks ago i had an infection in my tooth, which spread to my face. the left side of my face was twice the size of normal, and the pain was intense enough to require a fairly big dose of percocet every four hours and iv therapy every 12 at the hospital. my face was HOT. mars is heat, saturn is cold, and the only relief that wasnt drug induced was in cold compresses, which i find is an interesting aside to all this.

infection raged in my poor face. at the time, tSat was opposed my nMars (in the first in plac, 12th in meridian) which is connected to nSat (4th) through that bloody gt. saturn rules the bones, mars rules the face through aries. my mars is in cap as well, so theres more energy there for saturn to make me face up to my responsibility. all that action was going on, and i had no idea why. i have other minor tooth infections, as my teeth are needing attention (i have a massive anxiety attack when i am faced with the dentist, i am one of those sheer terror people where dentists are concerned... just cant handle being immobilized and having someone do horrid things to my mouth, UGH) but most of the other little infections went away after i used cloves. this one didnt.

i realized after the fact that saturn was trying to TELL me to face my responsibility to take care of myself. a bit of instantish karma, if you will. so, ive resigned myself to the fact that i must have these teeth done asap, even if the only way is to be put under (which will have to be the way, luckily i need so much done that they would have to do that anyway, without me specifically requesting it).

now if i dont listen to saturn, i shall be truly and seriously screwed. so, im trying to listen.

if saturn is causing you problems and pain, theres a valid reason. he honestly has our best wishes at heart, is what i feel.

~ana

posted July 16, 2003 06:51 AM              

I don't have any earth in my chart and I'm a pisces. My natural inclination is to walk away from problems but Saturn is the apex in a tsquare to my sun; jupiter/pluto/moon conjunction, which gives me some back-bone in facing up to problems. He also gives me persistence when I would rather give up.

Since my Saturn return I have grown up so much and gained so much, he is my rock. Right now he is making his way towards my Asc, I'm looking forward to what he will bring, hopefully self-assurance.