posted July 19, 2003 04:53 AM              

I have Mars on my Descendant, welcome to the club (and in Aqua - that's a Mars-Uranus conjunction, very stressful), but I'm in a very happy relationship now, even though until the age of 26 I had no serious relationships, the longest lasted for three months, so I was very very lonely and unhappy and felt I would never meet anyone who would love me for what I am. Anyway, I think that's hard to tell from a chart. There are indications, yes, but I think it all depends on our free will after all. If we want it to, that is

I think you have to look for Uranus in prominent places in your chart, but I could be wrong

posted July 19, 2003 06:19 AM              

what a chart *can* tell you is how you relate to a partner, and how you view marriage. there may be indicators of when one might marry, considering transits etc, but there would be many points in the chart to see it. i am sure there are indicators in a chart that speak to being alone forever, but there would be a choice involved. what of the charts of nuns? or priests, people who choose to not marry because they have a strong leaning elsewhere like their religion. you can be 'married' to lots of things, not just another human. nuns are initiated to be 'brides of christ'. people can be married to their job. its all relative.

i would never want someone to be sad because they thought their chart said that they would never marry. there is always hope, if you want something bad enough.

personally to you silver, i would examine *why* the relationships failed. did you attract unsuitable people? was there something that you might be able to change to make things more harmonius? if cancer rules your 7th, then it is likely you would find it hard to let go of a relationship. if its on the cusp, of course. with mars there though that makes it stronger... your 'action' is in not letting go, and with mars there i bet you use a lot of energy in a relationship. you might want action action action, but on an emotional level. where is your moon and what house is it? the moon rules your 7th if its indeed cancer on the cusp, and the moons position can shed light too.

posted July 19, 2003 07:00 AM              

Lovers are like chocolates, you never know what you are going to get but you can't spend your whole life choosing. You just pick one and bite in and hopefully finish instead of leaving the poor soul laying around with his soul bare while you move on to the next and better soulmate who will fill up that hungry heart of yours. Why kick someone else's tires when you are not ready to commit? Dating is not necessary when you find the one you know, in a day, in a week, but it's up to you to know not the other person. Otherwise you spend everyday staring into their eyes asking why? Why? did I meet you? Are you my soulmate? Will you stick around? Cause I'm just not sure, these doubts will drive anyone away. You have to keep your doubts to yourself and stick through it to the end. If you can't do that honestly, if you can't look at someone and see yourself living with that person for the rest of your life and waking up with them every day, you have no right to expect that person to reassure you just so you can find out what's inside.

So many women get to an age around the twenties and think this is it, I have to find someone. There is so much pressure really, and men do not get that pressure. Do you really want to do the choosing only to know he's doing the choosing everyday in his head when other women walk by? Better to wait until you find a man that's sure, then one that is settling for you because you are right now and whose eyes roam and do the choosing over and over again. When you see a man without that calculating look in his eyes and instead see that warm glow over his features that say, Everything she does is magic! She's just wonderful not matter what she looks like or what she does, then you know he's a keeper. But you can't keep asking yourself and him, why? what does this mean to me? Because others can sense your doubts.

A young woman has to wait until she has her career going to have anything to bring to the relationship, because you are just going to get boxed in and have less and less to offer emotionally as the days go by. You need to nourish yourself emotionally first and that means waiting until at least 28 or 30 when you hit your Saturn return even though Cosmo may tell you otherwise. Forget everything you have read about getting a man. The only time you need to get a man is when it's time to install your cable or paint your house. There are men who wait on you, and men you feel sorry for and these men are there for a practical purpose, they are not what you are looking for. What you are looking for is a man to wait on you, and you will find one when you are self assured enough to say these men are good enough to wait on me because I am good enough for myself, because I deserve to be treated as someone special because I'm me. Only then can you give yourself away to someone who treats you like a Queen, when you feel you have something to give.

Take Care from someone who knows, I have never met a girl who was happy in a young marriage, and if the husband is happy she is happy. It takes two, otherwise he'll be calculating and calculating and so will you.

Concetrate on the journey not the destination, if you care about being True to the one you love.

posted July 20, 2003 04:45 AM              

the statement

quote:

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The only time you need to get a man is when it's time to install your cable or paint your house. There are men who wait on you, and men you feel sorry for and these men are there for a practical purpose, they are not what you are looking for. What you are looking for is a man to wait on you, and you will find one when you are self assured enough to say these men are good enough to wait on me because I am good enough for myself, because I deserve to be treated as someone special because I'm me.

---

i agree with you that a marriage/relationship is a lot of work. i personally feel that a marriage is a team, and that people should be very good friends before they marry. if you arent compatible as friends, how can you be in a marriage? unless you are both of equal belief in what a marriage is to both of you. some people might want to be married simply for a consensual and monogamous sexual partner, and still have their own lives. that certainly isnt traditional, but if thats what they both want and they both are open about it, more power to them. there are other people that have relationships like you describe, where the guy just happens to take care of 'guy' things, and the woman does 'woman' things. a marriage of convienience. i dont get the impression that silver wants that kind of a marriage.

i would like to know why you say to look at saturns return too, as when i met my husband and on our wedding day, saturn was nowhere near its return point. saturn had returned for me sometime in mid 1999. i got married last year. i *did* have a couple of living together relationships too, one in 1992 or so, and that was about 4 years. my husband is 9 years younger than me, and he hasnt had his saturn return yet. i also have to say that though you have never met a girl who was happy in a young marriage (i am thinking you mean a young girl in a marriage?) i would like to say that i have, to give silver some perspective. my best girlfriend of 15 or so years met her significant other when she was about 16 years of age. they started living together when she was about 18. they are still together and have two lovely daughters, and they have an excellent relationship, its the role model for me in my own. i have never seen two people who are more meant to be together.

i just dont want silver to be discouraged. its important for her to figure out in her chart what applies to her. i believe she will be married someday, if she wants to, because she wants to. i also think that she might not have been ready and thats why her relationships failed. i know from personal experience that i used to attract the wrong kinds of guys, or settled for the wrong kinds of guys, because i didnt love or respect myself enough to attract emotionally healthy men. how could i, when attractions are usually built on common ground and so there was a very good chance i would attract the men with the same attributes? like attracts like. once i started to get some respect it all fell into place. still work to do, but its not impossible. it is true that we have to love ourselves honestly, before we will find someone who is healthy for us. otherwise we will attract painful relationships because subconsciously we do not feel worthy of anything better.

silver this is an interesting little thing. someone told it to me once and i found it to be true! they told me that when you stop actively searching for love, and are content being on your own, love will come to you. i know it sounds weird and theres no evidence to support it, but it worked with me! presumable with the person that told me about it, too. i dont know why.

posted July 20, 2003 05:44 AM              

Silver,
I'm a Scorp Moon too so I guess now I understand you better.

Love is a cureall and a lot of work too, but a work that is effortless if it's really love. If someone loves you, he/she will bear anything with you and will love you not matter what you do or say. I put my bf through h*ll the first few months or so, literally wanting to drive him away (I guess it was my way of testing him), and after 6 years I still give him a hard time (but much less, believe me), but he won't go away, he loves me too much, and I tell you, his love has cured me in so many ways, and it still does, since emotional wounds don't heal that easily. But if anything can do it, love can. Yes, you have to love yourself, but the love of someone can help you do that.
Stenhri, I gathered from your post that you were talking about relationships, not love, no?

posted July 20, 2003 08:15 AM              

i think you and i are pretty well of similar minds in this thread as i agree with your latest comments too. i also have put my husband through much testing. its a wonder that hes still here

he learns from me though... the important lessons of cause and effect. that was what he needed to learn. he still needs to learn a little responsibility, but hes got a good start. he has healed me much. i should have clarified in my earlier post, that i mean that self esteem has to be present to attract a respectful mate. another person cannot give you self esteem, and thats what i meant before but did not word it too clearly.

love does heal, and the love between two people is necessary to heal hurts that occurred through our interactions with others, like healing past relationships. you couldnt possibly heal that on your own, to some extent but not in practice, as in if a relationship hurts you, such as with trust issues, another person pretty much has to be involved (and be an understanding sort). at least so you can gauge if you are stronger in that respect.

sthenri- something i have to comment on that i missed last post is this quote of yours -

quote:

---

A young woman has to wait until she has her career going to have anything to bring to the relationship, because you are just going to get boxed in and have less and less to offer emotionally as the days go by

---

when one comes from a history of childhood sexual assaults and a rape in adulthood as i do, work is not usually advisable as a healing mechanism. perhaps for some it would be, but in my case i needed the time to fix the damage done. that had to be taken care of before i did a LOT of things... and now i am at a stage in my life where i am ready for these new adventures in life. my marriage was a big step, and its been a success overall.

there are also women in the world who still choose to not have a career in the public sector, but consider their career to be raising healthy strong children. there is nothing wrong with this at all, and if it gives them joy and a sense of fulfillment, hallelujah! it is a full time career to be a mother, not that any woman who chooses to work is necessarily hurting her child but career women with children really work a lot of 'overtime', as they pretty much have two jobs. stay at home mothers are no less worthy than career women, and their career is no less valuable.

again, im sorry if it sounded like i was coming down on you, i dont mean to, i would love to consider you a friend and do hate to have to disagree with you here. words have power though and i believe we need to choose them wisely, lest someone takes them in the wrong way.

posted July 20, 2003 06:33 PM              

I am sure I would have been very happy to have that advice from someone at your age Silverbells. I do not think Silverbells will take what I said the wrong way, even 20 years from now you will be able to fall in love effortlessly and find someone to love you. Trust is easy to find because we forget and all want to feel loved and feel good about ourselves again. Pain is passing, love is enduring and that is the message. Libras are rarely bitter.

Many times I was told to wait until I was older but I couldn't wait and I could see that not having anything intellectually in common with my partner was not fair to him or myself. I give men more than credit I honor what they really want, a life partner who is smart enough to keep up their end. But

By giving up your self identity to find love even if you haven't found the right person yet, you will always be ready to fit yourself into someone else's mold. At 23 you just can't do it, because you haven't defined yourself as a person yet in a man's eyes. I know men and they say time and time again, they want a woman who is self defined, and doesn't just "blend in". You have to know yourself and I believe the Saturn return is a time when you really come into your own and know what you want from life. Before then you could change and grow apart, and I am thinking about the man when I say it's about respect for your partner when you think about his life will be affected by your actions and the way you treat yourself is the same way you will treat him.

You just can't change yourself into something better by loving someone more than yourself, and to be honest I have met very few women who have done this. Silverbells you are a LIbra and I find Libras marry and fall in love way too young. I have so many Libra friends and they are always looking for Love, but that love does not have to be romantic. You can't kid yourself, every man wants a romance, so find that love in people, family the world. That's my message. There is so much out there, oceans, rivers, mountains, people to love, don't get serious about one man now, Libras need intellectual stimulation.

I honestly gave my advice based on the fact that Silverbells is a Libra with a Sag rising and Scorpio moon and so is much more sensitive and much more capable of being hurt than other signs. Sorry for the long post..

Remember my Cancer/8th house moon makes me overly sensitive about giving yourself emotionally unless you are sure of yourself. It's your life, it's up to you. It's how you love, and everyone has to discover how they love so they can show their partner. Everyone's love is unique. I am not saying do not love men, I am saying take it slow and learn how to love so you can find your own way.

Men are like a box of chocolates, you don't know what you are going to get, but if you know what you want and need and who and what you are, it's so much easier. Trust me my Libra gives me lots of arguments but he's happy:>

posted July 21, 2003 01:39 AM              

can you accept my contributions as honest too? i have 'been there' too, in many ways, just perhaps in a different 'there' than you. i am all too aware that even though advice can be honest, it doesnt necessarily mean that its right for everyone else. i take a lot of care when giving anything 'advicey' as it might not be someone elses reality. i try to be very careful with what i say, which is often difficult with an aries moon.

i agree that men are a box of chocolates, but to take it one step further, isnt everyone a box of chocolates? i have learned that people will always surprise you. friendships will surprise, family will surprise... its pretty wonderful really. that is also why i try to avoid generalizations.

posted July 21, 2003 01:47 AM              

i would like to apologise to you as you asked a simple question, if there were astrological indicators in a chart for being alone, and it got sidetracked into an 'advice-a-thon'. you asked for a glass of water and you got niagara falls.

i hope that i helped in any way though with your question.

i am sorry that you are hurting.

please know that i was there once too, and things will get better. i can almost promise, i say almost because i am not god.

take care and if you have any questions of me never hesititate to ask, but im gonna take a little rest now from posting as my husband left today to go back to the states and im really missing him. im very sad right now. i just want to read and relax at the moment, i dont want to type anymore tonight.

posted July 21, 2003 03:32 PM              

silverbells, maybe I'm just a weirdo, but I never "got" the dating scene, although I had a lot of dates in my time, and met a lot of men. I never once met anyone interesting in a bar or a club, and rarely at parties, although I once met a great guy through a group of friends going to a concert. There was never anybody for me in high school, and college romances didn't work out, although I am still friends today with a couple old beaus. Following my own heart and passions led me into some mistakes and trouble, and to great personal heights too -- no romance ever lasted more than 7-8 months for me until I was in my 30s, when I met my partner -- and we've been together for 6 years now. Maybe he's the one I've been waiting for always -- he's surely the only man who ever loved me for who I am, and not some image.

And I went clubbing with some girlfriends the other week, and as an observer I _still_ don't get that scene, although I had a blast with my friends.

Anyway, just this one more little barrel to add to your Niagra, but here's more encouragement to go for what you love -- explore, change, enjoy -- don't allow a natural need for love to make your life feel like a rehearsal, or smaller than what it is -- you're a great lady and good things are here now, and more to come!

posted July 22, 2003 06:06 AM              

just my experience