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Author Topic:   Natal Saturn 5th house Retrograde
DayDreamer
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posted August 01, 2003 01:43 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey...

I was born when Saturn was in Retrograde and in the 5th House under Virgo. I've only heard negative things about all these aspects.

One thing that's really spooked me out is that I would have either a hard time conceiving or raising kids. And that this would be a reoccurring problem.

I was wondering how true this was. Does anyone else have this in their natal chart. If so, have u encountered these problems?

My closest experience with kids stems from being the eldest of six kids and basically looking after my three youngest sisters all my life...And many times they hate me for it because i have a tendency to be a little more like mom than a sister to them even when i try so hard not to be.

Does anyone know where i can find more information on this subject? Any books?

Thanx

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sthenri
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posted August 01, 2003 03:08 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi, I have Saturn in the 5th in Taurus, and was an older caretaking sister too..No I haven't had any problems around children, I'm surrounded!

I do not think that is a modern concept, the 5th house has to do with children that's all. It could mean you seek them out too.

Here is an excellent site for you http://www.bobmarksastrologer.com/

Natasha

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sthenri
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posted August 01, 2003 03:09 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oh BTW, my hubby has Saturn in the 5th and my Mother has Saturn in the 5th in Virgo and she didn't have any trouble having children except that she nagged them a little too much..

Be kind to yourself,

Natasha

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DayDreamer
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posted August 03, 2003 10:28 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thats good to hear. Does your mother have her saturn in retrograde...(whatever that means)? What effect does retrograde have on a planet?

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sthenri
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posted August 03, 2003 10:59 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
No she doesn't, but I read that it only weakens the effect. I do not see much of a difference. Example, I have Mercury in Gemini Retrogade but I still think like a Gemini.

Most of my planets are retrogade, I don't worry much about it.

Natasha

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anafaery
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posted August 04, 2003 01:25 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
i think that a Rx planet means a little more effort is needed for it to manifest. linda wrote a lot of how mercury Rx affects communications, specifically postal sorts. you can still have the promise of the position of the planet, but it might take longer and take more focus and effort on your part.

i have merc Rx in my natal, and it doesnt mean im not intelligent. it means that i will have to use more effort to get my words out, but they still come out and usually clearly, if ive taken enough time in crafting them. i certainly cant be coherent just off the cuff though, i do get into some mixups when i dont think about my words.

saturn in the 5th would suggest that you pay attention to duty and once thats done, saturn brings all your hard work into frution. thats a factor of saturn that many people forget about, hes not as awful as one might think. add to that, it being in virgo, and it would suggest that you need to pay attention to the details of your duty. for example, if you are trying to get pregnant, and the doctor says that you have to get at least an hour of bed rest every day, with a Rx saturn you might be tempted to just spend a half an hour, perhaps you might 'feel ok' so just go on your merry way. its important that you do pay attention to that detail though, and stay in bed for exactly how long he says (the Rx factor means that it will be harder for you to do that, perhaps other things in your chart/personality just want to get on with it). some people might go back to the doctor and protest that they did exactly that, but theres a difference in doing something and doing it exactly as it should be done.

its like... if i ask my husband to mop the floor, he will mop it, but when i go in there i still see dirt and stains. sure, he mopped it, but he didnt pay attention to details and do it as it should be done. what point is there in doing something halfway?

does that make sense?

take care

~ana

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where i end and you begin there's a gap in between there's a gap where we meet where i end and you begin
and i'm sorry for us the dinosaurs roam the earth the sky turns green where i end and you begin

i am up in the clouds i am up in the clouds and i can't and i can't come down

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DayDreamer
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posted August 04, 2003 03:06 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
LoL anafaery...love ure example of ure husband's mopping abilities. Although, i wouldve never guessed u have mercury in retrograde or that it is a problem...you communicate very well.

I can definitely see that i need to work much more on paying attention to details. My sun (and mercury and mars) are in aquarius and i tend to skim over the lil stuff and focus on the bigger picture. i also have a tendency to get others to deal with the small monotonous stuff for me. I found out my NN is in virgo in 5th house too. So i guess thats the route i gotta work on. Wish it was a wee bit more fun than this. But it's a relief to hear that the 5th house Saturn isnt necessarily connected to conception/child rearing.

Thanks for ure knowledge Sthenri and Anafaery...hope i spelt ure names correctly.

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anafaery
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posted August 04, 2003 06:26 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
call me ana, its a bit easier.

ya my husband, hes funny hes getting better with age, rather like wine. i do so love the bugger a lot

i notice my Rx in my head a lot. an immense amount of information gets processed in my brain at any given moment, im constantly thinking. it takes me awhile sometimes to make my thoughts into words. its ok, just gives me a headache sometimes lol.

~ana

------------------
where i end and you begin there's a gap in between there's a gap where we meet where i end and you begin
and i'm sorry for us the dinosaurs roam the earth the sky turns green where i end and you begin

i am up in the clouds i am up in the clouds and i can't and i can't come down

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Rev. Alice
unregistered
posted August 04, 2003 09:03 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
One interesting thing about Retrograde Saturn is that it is more "responsive" than responsible--as normally defined. You feel what others need and "respond" accordingly.

------------------
You are a blessing and you are blessed.
Rev. Alice
www.lifeprints-for-living.com

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NikiSpeedy
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posted August 10, 2003 05:00 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

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DayDreamer
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posted August 12, 2003 06:51 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oh, sorry to hear that your father was a ďsourpuss.Ē I hope things are a little better with you/your brothers and your father now. What do you mean by negative discipline? Do you mean using negative or unconstructive criticism as a form of discipline?

I also heard that Saturn in the 5th house plays down the fun and creativity in oneís life. But I never felt that this aspect of my life was ever lacking. Iím usually the ringleader among my friends when it comes to the fun stuff.

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sthenri
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posted August 12, 2003 09:18 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I do not have problems with fun and games either but my friends usually complain they are bored. I think it's because I like routine, everything is usually the same, but they still come to me for excitement. I am the ringleader too, it's strange since some years all I had was an orange one eyed cat and a broken TV and still people would show up demanding to be entertained. Probably was had to do with Sag rising and Sag Mars.

I do like relaxing entertainment and that's easy and fun for most people, instead of games. As for children, I love their innocence and I am inspired.

Scorpios are a lot of fun, and usually have one Scorp friend and one Libra to liven things up. With my Taurus Saturn I think I tend to attract some pessimism and so I am glad of the 5th house, otherwise it would be too nitpicky. Father issues aside, I have attracted a lot of strong and caring men into my life, and I have incredibly grateful, they are a little rigid but loving and tender.

Natasha

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NikiSpeedy
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posted August 12, 2003 10:39 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

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sthenri
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posted August 12, 2003 11:02 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi, Saturn in Sag is not easy either, I had an uncle with this placement and he was a cold fish, very rigid but intelligent even brilliant but cold.

I don't think the North Node can be conjunct any planets except the moon because there is no effect. It's invisible, the North Node is not there, it's a part of the moon isn't it? So there is no aspect except to the moon. Have you read otherwise? Then your Saturn is not conjunct your South Node, that is good anyway.

I hope that you have found a way to accept it, it's not easy knowing someone who is rigid and into discipline. I couldn't understand my uncle either, it was as if he was born to command an army and I am not into being a soldier. I still love him but could never win his approval. Saturn in Sag is a toughie.

Natasha

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DayDreamer
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posted August 13, 2003 06:37 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
NatashaÖI donít think my friends get so easily bored with me since I tend to alternate friends I hang out withÖand I make a point not to spend most of my time with one particular friend. But with groups of friends itís easier to spend more time cuz thereís obviously more variation. So I guess I am controlling the fun in this situation. But in no way do I lack fun with this method ... It works for me!!!

NickiÖI wasnít sure if your father was deceased or not, so I didnít want to assume anything. I hope youíve learned to forgive your father after your fatherís and brotherís passing. Iím sure your father loved you and cared about you (in his heart at least), regardless of the way he may have treated. Some people are just cold and donít know how to express an ounce of love (Cant recall even getting a hug from my father), but arenít afraid to hurt youÖeven the ppl u love dearly.

I can relate somewhat, tho probably never to the state u experienced it, as everyoneís life experiences are unique. Till my mid-teens my father was very abusive tooÖphysically, verbally, emotionally and mentally. I guess it was exaggerated due to the circumstances at that timeÖ he was basically a single father raising up to six kids alone since my motherís mental health was always fluctuating.

Fortunately, with old age my father calmed down quite a lot. And I somehow took over his role in ďdiscipliningĒ my younger siblings, but no where near the extent he chose to discipline me as the oldest. Honestly, sometimes I go through a Dr. Jekyll and Mr.(Ms. in my case) Hyde phase with my sibs where one moment I can be loving and helpful and then the next I can be just plain mean and as strict as a sergeant. I pray I donít treat my own kids like that.

Iíve taught kids at the elementary school, high school and university level, but Iíve never had that harsh side come out on any of those occasions. With the students Iím very kind and patient and Iíll dedicate a lot of time to them, but with my younger sibs I just have no patience. Iím struggling with this double standard.

I have my Saturn (Virgo/5th hs) involved in a T-cross (or T-Square):
Saturn Opposite Moon (Pisces/11th hs)
Saturn Square Neptune (Sag/7th hs)
(Moon Square Neptune)
So the solution to my problem lies in my Ascendant in Gemini.
I wish it was that simple!

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sthenri
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posted August 13, 2003 09:33 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
DayDreamer, you have many of the same placements as my mother, and while a little doubtful sometimes of her abilities, she was a great mom. She loves her grandkids too and they adore her. She could be demanding due to anxiety over her own future, but the pisces moon and gemini rising always struggle.

Natasha

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NikiSpeedy
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posted August 13, 2003 04:54 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

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Duality
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posted August 15, 2003 09:40 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi DD,

I have Saturn in Aries in 5th (In my vedic chart, not the tropical one).
I don't have kids but I've never tried to have them either. I do hope I will one day.

I read somewhere that this placement of Saturn means one will be dealing with kids in a responsible way or taking care of them personally. I have done that at one time. Furthermore, kids LOVE me and always have, LOL.

As for the fun aspect ppl had mentioned - I agree. It's not that I'm unable to have fun -I LIMIT my fun and I know it's MY own doing. Can be changed at any time.

As for Merc retrograde - I have that too (In Gemini), LOL. Well, I'm considered quite intelligent by ppl and my communication skills are some of my most developed traits (and one of the things I like most about myself).

I know some astrologers consider a retrograde planet as being some kind of unusual skill/gift a person possesses.

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DayDreamer
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posted August 17, 2003 01:49 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Natasha..interesting...whatís your motherís sun sign and how many kids does she have if you donít mind me asking?

Niki...Youíre entitled to feel the way you do about your father even if your feelings arenít the slightest upbeat. Hopefully itís made u a stronger and wiser person. (Always have to have hope in my sentences donít I. Sometimes I think Iím just too optimistic for my own good.)

Duality...Thanks for sharing. I canít help getting attached to kids myself...theyíre just a wonderful ball of energy and spontaneity.

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sthenri
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posted August 17, 2003 12:15 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
DayDreamer, she is a Scorpio/6th house sun, and most of her planets are in the 6th house. Her moon is in the 10th/pisces, venus is 6th/Scorpio. Mars is 8th/Cap, Jupiter 6th/Aqua, Mercury 6th/Sag, Ceres Sag. Neptune Leo, and Pluto is Leo or Libra. She has a lot of earth energy and that's what keeps her stable otherwise it would be hard with so many water placements. She is a bit of a flirt too, with Mars/8th and Jupiter/Aqua. She loves knickknacks and collects everything.

I have found I get along pretty well with strong Jupiters, since my rising is Sag.
Jupiter in Sag or Jupiter in Air signs tend to be more relaxed and easygoing, and a little indulgent with children and lovers.

I have Jupiter in Virgo so we didn't clash in the discipline department, I was much more structured than her, but even though it bothered me, It bothered me a lot more to be around rigid minded people. I was lucky she was so open minded because I really needed that. The Saturn in Virgo in her could be a nag and she wanted me to be a nurse for a long time. I tried it out but it's not for me. She was unhappy for a long time and I think just go over it about five years ago.

A little too much emphasis on stability and marriage from her end and she's a little gossip but other than that, she's who she is. I don't judge her, I let her stand on her own terms.

She is a pain to shop with though, and hard on others who do not live up to her standards. I can't openly criticize others like she can but I have learned to let her if she wants. She is no saint when she opens her mouth. I couldn't live with her or talk to her everyday but I think it's because she is very social and expects my life to be the same. I went to boarding school at 13, but we have always kept in touch often. I just needed my own space and at that time felt I could not live up to her standards socially. I was one of a bunch of children, all who fit her standards better. She says now that she nagged me more because she had higher hopes for me, but I didn't know that.

I felt a little exploited because I was expected to work in the family business or be what she expected and it was understood I would say yes. Plus when I was dancing ballet, she made it seem it was for her, and my family profited. When I started realizing I did things for me I was a lot happier. I think she always wanted me to be happy but she was a classic mom and that seemed fake to me. It was only that she is good at anything she does, but she did not have her own projects only her children. Going away was tough on her and she finally got a grip when my sister had a baby. She is very hard driving. She comes from a working class family that made good, and that means the burden is placed on my generation. My cousins and I feel the burden especially the women. I like a simple life, I like to have what I need and want but I don't need the social life. There is no way my mother would stay at home, not with a Cap Mars, but she forgets I am not the same. So we have a few power struggles sometimes, but I treat her like any friend of mine who has the same idea.

I don't think it's possible to have a mother like her and not be rich and famous. She must think I am here to be the next Scarlett O'Hara. I don't know how I managed to escape from that:>

Natasha

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DayDreamer
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posted August 18, 2003 02:09 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wow your mom has a lot going on in the 6th house. Thatís the house of work/service, right? Iíve got a Scorpio friend whoís got her two childrenís life planned out, and theyíre only 5 and 6. Theyíre already going to a private school and she drives them almost an hour each way everyday. Sheís very determined...spends over an hour each meal trying to fatten them up. Not sure of where her Saturn lies tho.

I can relate with the gossip..but I only do so with good intentions.. ...to understand ppl better... Your mom seems a lot more stable and calculated with her children than I think I am...Iíve got pisces moon and lots aquarius...but then I guess it is a fixed sign. But that doesnít mean I donít nag my sisters cuz the Saturn influence is still there. I really wanted them to go to university but ive only recently come to accept that theyíre different from me and different people have different paths in life...wish I realized this earlier cuz I passed up a great guy over the career thing...im thinking that it might be due to my Mars in Aquarius (plus Sun & Mercury) all conjunct in the 10th house of careers, with Mars and Mercury conjunct my Midheaven in Capricorn. I feel the burden from my fatherís generation to be successful too. My fatherís side is highly educated and much more hard working than mine (ex.. One of my uncles has 4 Masters Degrees- math, physics, nuclear physics, and mba Ė and a PhD in nuclear physics)...OK, now thatís just CRAZY!! I donít think I want to do graduate school...itís too specific and tedious for my taste...ok maybe just a Masters deg if the thesis is innovative.

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sthenri
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posted August 18, 2003 04:59 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi DayDreamer, with that Midheaven in Capricorn you would feel career is most important. When the time is right the right guy will come along. You will suddenly find a way to integrate, both you will be able to compromise. If it happened to me it can happen to you. I have a Virgo Midheaven, aspected by Uranus, Pluto and Jupiter and could not change my career goals, but I comprised a little and he comprised a little.

My sister has a Taurus midheaven and she feels an enormous burden too. I have learned to be less hard on myself. Don't let over educated relatives make you feel any less accomplished. Education is a lifelong process, it never ends.

Natasha

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DayDreamer
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posted August 21, 2003 12:17 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks natasha, i sure hope so. Alot of things in my chart point to marrying my career. In addition to sun,mars,mercury, midheaven conj in 10th house, Juno (not sure about its validity) is in the 10th house too, but in pisces. I can see how my father influenced my career decisions (and now possibly my marriage choice)...ive been brainwashed

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DayDreamer
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posted August 26, 2003 02:06 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Found a good website that talks about Saturn 5th hs in detail:
http://www.mina19087.com/natal_saturn_5th.htm

Very informative

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