posted March 06, 2004 09:12 PM              

If anyone here wants to share about what it is like having planets in the 12th House, I would very much like to know about it.

Would you say that there is a lot, and I mean a lot, of things happening in your consciousness that you are simply not aware of on the surface at all?

Like, is there possibly a lot of suppressed stuff going on within you that you only let out through little slips of the tongue here and there or something like that, maybe?

Also, would having a placement here make it a lot easier for you to "lie to yourself" and believe in illusions about yourself or other people and situations etc... than would be the case if you had this House empty in your chart instead?

And I mean, would it almost be like there is a part of yourself "living behind a curtain" that you just couldn't figure out or get a hold of a lot of the time as well?

Would you probably be very into hiding the qualities of that planet as they play out in your life?

I am just so curious because someone I know of online has Mars in this 12th House and sometimes I am honestly just not sure if they are totally aware of and/or honest with themselves about all of their motivations about things all of the time, you know?

THANKS SO MUCH FOR SHARING ANYTHING THAT YOU CAN ABOUT THIS HOUSE WITH ME IF YOU WANT TO!

posted March 07, 2004 02:30 AM              

There are several in-a-nutshell hypothesis floating around about 12th house energies, as I'm sure you've all encountered. Some say planets in the 12th house represent things on your "must do" list in this life time. That is, they show the purpose you came here for, like the lessons and experiences that you intend to complete, as predetermined when you were mapping it out in "heaven" (not to put a religious spin it). The 12th house shows motivations that are not part of the conscious mind. They dwell below the mind's eye, which make them very compelling. You don't know why your arm is itchy, you just scratch it when it itches. That's kind of how 12th house energies manifest. You don't notice the energies themselves, you only notice their effects, and they might even seem mysterious and illogical, or you could feel blind-sided by them, like "Whoa, I sure didn't see THAT coming!"
And, yes PPFM, I think they CAN leak out in Freudian slips and off-the-cuff remarks, which may even surprise the person who said them. But, you see, 12th house energies have alot more power over individuals then what one may think, because they operate off the radar screen. Can't control them if you don't even know they're there. But, make no mistake about it, you WILL scratch when they itch.

Another spin on interpreting house meanings is to consider each house in terms of it's position in relation to the ascendant. The ascendant represents the *PERSON* in the natal chart, and everything else interacts, in one way or another with the ascendant 'person'.
For example, consider the keynotes of the 7th house. It stands directly across from the asc, facing it. Is it any wonder that this house represents partnership, debate, open enemies and the like? The chart *person* and the descendant *other person* are like 2 people standing face to face. They may not always get along, but they cannot ignore each other.

Now, consider the position of the 12th house in relation to the ascendant. The asc. *person* is facing away from the 12th house, that is to say, it's back is turned to it. This is the house of, among other things secret enemies and all things secret. But these enemies are in a much better position to do us harm because they're right behind our back, and we don't even know they're there! This is where it gets it reputation of being the house of self-undoing. It's hard to harness energy that we're only vaguely aware of at best. It feels more like it's harnessing US.

So, the question is: How do we gain control of these energies so they are not controlling us? Maybe the answer is in living as honestly and with the purest of intentions as we possibly can, so that these energies will work for the common good. If that's how you live your life, then you won't be subject to self-undoing, now will you? I think a person with a loaded 12th house has no choice but to live as purely as they can, because they sense a sort of chaos within themselves, and may often feel like they're on the verge of a complete loss of control of their mentality and emotions. They may need to withdraw from life and other people on a regular basis because that's the only way the can be free of the clutter in their psyche.

Mars in the 12th...that's a tricky one to "get", isn't it? Venus too.

posted March 08, 2004 11:23 AM              

Lioneye, I think your description of the 12th House energies might just fit this person "to a tee."

I swear that they don't really know what is motivating them a lot of the time, and yes, it does make that energy that much more difficult to control because they are really not so sure what drives them.

Personally, I also think that that 12th House energy makes them believe in situations when there is absolutely no cause for believing in them at all, meaning that...

they will believe that they have found true love when in reality there is not that much between them and their significant other in the first place though.

Could that be correct?

What Planets, Houses, Aspects etc... would make it VERY easy for someone to delude themselves into believing they had
found true love when in reality they are only in a rebound relationship instead?

Like, some people are pretty clear on when they are in a real love relationship and when they are only in a temporary "fix-it" type of arrangement that isn't going to go anyplace serious or permanent.

And then some people can seem to confuse the two different types of feelings, and sometimes make what is really only a "BandAid" kind of relationship into what seems like true, deep love through their imagination by talking themselves into believing that it is something much more than what it really is.

Can anybody please tell me what they think could make a person more susceptible to this kind of delusion that someone else might be on account of what Placements and Aspects they have?

THANKS SO MUCH!

posted March 08, 2004 11:50 AM              

Also, a square involving Venus and Neptune could allow one to be "led down the garden path" in love, so to speak. I have this aspect in my natal chart, and Lord knows, I've convinced myself that a frog is a prince on numerous occasions. Then, when the veil is pulled back, and I'm able to see the person (and the relationship) more clearly, I find myself so deeply entrenched in a commitment with them, that getting out of it is really messy and not at all easy.

posted March 08, 2004 11:57 AM              

You can believe anything you want to tell yourself whether it is real or not. I think 12 house placement does tend to blur the line on what is real and what we want to believe is real. It is the house of illusion and transformation.

posted March 08, 2004 02:22 PM            

Here's some thoughts.....
The 12th is not the easiest of houses to understand and sometimes I've found that people can "project" interpretations onto that house and a lot of times those projections can turn out to be incorrect.

Another thought......
The 12th has been called "the dustbin" (garbage can) of the chart.... again I see that as a projection - putting stuff into the 12th that we don't want to deal with.

People with planets in the 12th are usually very intuative. They are very sensitive and will pick up on atmosphere's feeling's etc.
Now where the confusion comes in, is that they may not know at the time exactly whose emotions/feelings they are feeling but they do know that what they feel is real. This is why 12th housers need to spend a certain amount of time alone - that way they aren't absorbing anyone else's emotions and so can separate what's their's and what's other peoples. Does that make sense?

Planets in the 12th also show what we give to others.... and yes planets in the 12th can also be repressed in someway. For example someone with Mars in the 12th house may surpress their anger but they will always "fight" for other people. When the Martian energy is used in that way they tend to not "stick up" for themselves but will never let anyone "diss" their friends. A problem will happen when you repress a planets energy - you have to learn how to own it. Now in saying that...this doesn't only happen with 12th house planets it happens with every planet in every house. Anyway for now we are talking about the 12th....so back to using Mars as the example. If you don't use the energy it will come at you. So you may find that people will be agressive or pushy towards you.
(Interesting don't you think that some people with no 12th house planets can "attack" people with 12th house planets......see how the energy comes at that house?)

Planets in the 12th also show what was happening in the outer world (re your parents) while you were in the womb. They can also be an indicator of what was happening at the actual time of your birth or the birth itself. Plus they can also show suppressed talents that your parents never used...
Let's now use Mercury in the 12th as an example. Mercury is the planet of communication - a 12th house Mercury could indicate that you were not given very much attention when you where young. Or it could also indicate that you didn't ask for much attention.

For anyone who really wants to understand the 12th house I would highly recommend "The 12th House" by Karen Hamaker-Zondag. Not only is she a top rate astrologer but she's also a Jungian Psychologist and believe me she absolutely understand the 12th house.

posted March 08, 2004 03:01 PM            

Re: "Also would the 12th house be the cause of being an emotional sponge?"

It depends on what you exactly mean by that. Yes they will "soaked up" atmospheres but that in itself doesn't necessarily make them overly emotional

posted March 08, 2004 07:40 PM              

Thanks for your input. I appreciate it so much since the 12th House holds such mystery for me right now.

You said that...

"Planets in the 12th also show what was happening in the outer world (re your parents) while you were in the womb. They can also be an indicator of what was happening at the actual time of your birth or the birth itself. Plus they can also show suppressed talents that your parents never used..."

So, could you please let me know what you think that planet Mars in the 12th House could signify about the things you mentioned concerning someone's parents and birth etc...?

I would just love to please know that if it's not too much trouble!

Thank you so much for the help!

AND THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE NAMING OF THAT BOOK TOO!

posted March 08, 2004 07:52 PM              

the best book on the subject is by Tracy Marks. It is entitled "Your Secret Self, Illuminating the Mysteries of the Twelfth House." It is now out of print, but is WORTH the search to find. You may be able to get it on Half.com

There are entire chapters dedicated to each 12th house placement. It has become a bible for me.

posted March 08, 2004 09:47 PM              

My 12th House is in Aries. I've read stuff about that... so then I look at it's ruling planet, Mars, it's in Scorpio in the 6th at 0.51 degrees.

The only fire in my chart is a Uranus in Leo Singleton in the 4th. A WACKY Uranus in Leo...

So I lack fire in my chart, and I do get easily discouraged. Too easily. Its seems whenever I get really enthusiastic about something, I need a Uranus-thinking co-conspirator with me, which means MORE trouble. Combined with a Mars in Scorpio... well... you get the picture...

Not only is my 12th House in Aries, but my Empty Space in my T-Square is Aries in 11th/12th.

And if you say the 12th represents what our parents lacked... then it's perfect because both my parents have always lacked a reasonable assertiveness, and they are both basically loners (11th House of groups & friends)(12th they are convinced I caused the undoing of their marriage)...

Can anyone mirror what I'm trying saying for me? Or disagree or comment in any case...

Thanks...

.gloria

posted March 08, 2004 10:52 PM              

A few excerps of images of the planets in the 12th house.

Sun:
cowardly lion, ruler of Oz, king in exile

Moon:
oceanic womb, psychic sponge, abandonded child

Mercury:
parrot in cage, reporter in prison, speaking in tongues

Venus:
closet artist, watercolors, butterfly in a jar

Mars:
crocodile in a swamp, steam bath, gymnasium of the soul

Jupiter:
forbidden journey, backstage philosopher, prophet in exile

Saturn:
underwater fortress, scapegoat, monastery walls

Uranus:
acupuncture of the soul, hidden genius, rebellious monk

Neptune:
dream within a dream, internal music, mirag

Pluto:
undercover detective, healer's sanctuary,
hibernating dragon

Having sun, merc, mars and jupiter in the 12th, I am now just truly feeling what I am capable of, and how I can try to coax it out.

posted March 08, 2004 11:47 PM              

I'm open-minded as heck, but!!!

OK.. I just posted saying I had no planets in 12th, but 12th Ruled by Mars...

I'm freaking out slightly over Tracy Mark's image thing of Mars in 12th!!!

Of all animals on this earth, I think I truly hate only one... gators & croc's. And I'm not understanding the other two descriptions that goes with it.

Please help me decipher what the heck that means!!! Pleeeez...

posted March 09, 2004 12:02 AM              

For me, I will "snap" unnecessarily and not always at the right time, right way or right person.

Unfocused provacation, it is just because that person was there at thhat time.

I have to consciously think about not doing that.

I sometimes feel like a steam bath, walk into me and watch out.

And "gymnasium of the soul" Maybe working out all of your enegies to finally be one with your soul.

Cindi

posted March 09, 2004 12:40 AM              

It's funny cuz Aries is in my Empty Space in my T-Square. So probably why I couldn't understand any of that at first. Like a big blind spot.

The part about gymnastic of the soul... I can only think of one thing right now in terms of gymnastics, so I need to meditate...

Thank you...

posted April 27, 2005 04:24 AM              

My Jupiter and Saturn are both ruled by Virgo in the 12th house. My asc (virgo as well) is also ruled by the 12th house. What does all that mean?

posted April 27, 2005 05:31 AM              

I read in a website that my life will be controlled by external forces that i have no control over,and that i might have powerful hidden enemies...and the 12th house pluto person needs a lot of time alone(that i do)...and this placement makes a person very psychic...

does it mean i might have a hidden power or something?? is there anything good??

posted April 27, 2005 09:58 AM              

Anyway, my virgo-Saturn (12th house) directly contradicts with my n. node (virgo 12th house), which basically means life is going to be a constant internal struggle.

posted April 27, 2005 10:16 AM              

Saturn in the 12th could be issues that need resolution around father/authority figures. Also, coming to grips with fears and how you may limit/sabotage yourself.

posted April 27, 2005 10:40 AM              

I am currently enrolled in nursing school...lol

Keep in mind I am brand new to astrology, I had no idea what my moon, asc, venus, etc. signs were till a couple weeks ago. I know it's possible to be a coincidence but still a bit creepy eh? (I'm still skeptic lol)

Makes me feel a bit better about my decision though!